What's the point of fan ownership?

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lo36789
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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by lo36789 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:31 am

Yarblockos wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:38 am
which would allow us to build on all four sides
Fully yes. The pipe only restricts at most a third of the away end. We know there is enough space to develop to step 1 standard.

Stuff we can take away with us sounds great, but we would have to make good what is left behind so there are still significant sunk costs to it.

I'm not sure that a majority of owners would want to prioritise sight lines and matchday experience at Blackwell Meadows over the playing budget.

Strategically it could be a good decision for the club if it helped us to consistently get crowds to 2000+. I suspect many would prioritise on pitch performance now over long term sustainable growth.

The animosity towards the rugby club is another barrier. Any money spent on BM would be perceived to be us doing the rugby club a favour - despite them having no need for it - which to some would be a red line.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by Darlo_Pete » Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:54 am

There is plenty of room between the current ground and towards the road leading from Blands Corner into the town. The advantage of moving to that location is the rugby could keep their clubhouse and the water pipe would not be a problem anymore.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:25 am

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:31 am

Fully yes. The pipe only restricts at most a third of the away end. We know there is enough space to develop to step 1 standard.
Not quite true.

It restricts up to half of the away end and also part of the main stand side - it runs diagonal through the stadium footprint. There's a reason the stand is off centre.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by lo36789 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:33 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:25 am
lo36789 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:31 am

Fully yes. The pipe only restricts at most a third of the away end. We know there is enough space to develop to step 1 standard.
Not quite true.

It restricts up to half of the away end and also part of the main stand side - it runs diagonal through the stadium footprint. There's a reason the stand is off centre.
Ah yes I was just focussing on the away end.

I thought the exclusion zone ended somewhere between where the 6 yard line and 18 yard line hit the goal line.

The point is there is enough space to build another off centre terrace there - if there was deemed to be value in doing so - and would most likely be enough to meet our needs for the next 20 years.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:40 am

lo36789 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:06 pm
Darlobill wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:35 pm
Def think some banked standing at the way end would really help possibly something we can take with us if we move.
Have to get the RC onside though and that’s the hard job but people views do change.
The rugby clubs only issue is they don't want their clubhouse knocked down - and based on plans that would be needed to get us what is needed within I think it is 3 years of being in the FL.
*If* the pipe was moved there would be no need to knock the clubhouse down as we would have the full footprint of the 3 sides of the ground to work with.

Leave the Tin Shed as is (1,000 capacity)

Open end 2,000 capacity uncovered or covered terrace - we simply need a 16 step terrace - double the depth of the TS. Not hard.

Build a 2,000+ seat main stand on the main stand side - it could be a cheaper modular stand (by my estimation 12 seats deep) or a proper seated stand with all of the bells and whistles in it such as bars, office space, gym, club shop, eateries etc - that'd be much more expensive though.

Hey presto - 5,000+ capacity without taking into account the clubhouse side.

It's literally a simple design without that pesky pipe. Though let's not delude ourselves though, it would cost multi millions. We'd have the additional cost of moving the pipe and un assembling the existing main stand (which should have always been built 12 seats deep n anticipation of being extended later)

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:45 am

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:33 am
Ah yes I was just focussing on the away end.

I thought the exclusion zone ended somewhere between where the 6 yard line and 18 yard line hit the goal line.

The point is there is enough space to build another off centre terrace there - if there was deemed to be value in doing so - and would most likely be enough to meet our needs for the next 20 years.
Yes we could use some of that space for a terrace/seats but it would all look stupid - but we need to have the scope for 1,000 then 2,000 seats. I don't see how the latter is really possible (and also with 5.000 capacity) in the current footprint without more ripping it up and starting again.

It's honestly better to move the pipe and erect a proper main stand, and a proper terrace at the open end. No fannying about with gaps and exclusion zones.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by Yarblockos » Fri Mar 22, 2024 12:31 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:40 am
lo36789 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:06 pm
Darlobill wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2024 7:35 pm
Def think some banked standing at the way end would really help possibly something we can take with us if we move.
Have to get the RC onside though and that’s the hard job but people views do change.
The rugby clubs only issue is they don't want their clubhouse knocked down - and based on plans that would be needed to get us what is needed within I think it is 3 years of being in the FL.
*If* the pipe was moved there would be no need to knock the clubhouse down as we would have the full footprint of the 3 sides of the ground to work with.

Leave the Tin Shed as is (1,000 capacity)

Open end 2,000 capacity uncovered or covered terrace - we simply need a 16 step terrace - double the depth of the TS. Not hard.

Build a 2,000+ seat main stand on the main stand side - it could be a cheaper modular stand (by my estimation 12 seats deep) or a proper seated stand with all of the bells and whistles in it such as bars, office space, gym, club shop, eateries etc - that'd be much more expensive though.

Hey presto - 5,000+ capacity without taking into account the clubhouse side.

It's literally a simple design without that pesky pipe. Though let's not delude ourselves though, it would cost multi millions. We'd have the additional cost of moving the pipe and un assembling the existing main stand (which should have always been built 12 seats deep n anticipation of being extended later)
Yes, I agree, it can all be done like that and would suit our needs. Yes, it would cost a few million but it can be built over a much longer period then a brand new ground, which looks like it would be an enormous cost. I can fully imagine a situation where we are unable to meet our repayments on a brand new ground and end up losing ownership of the ground, and we're back where we were without owning our own stadium!

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loan_star
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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by loan_star » Fri Mar 22, 2024 1:03 pm

I heard a rumour the pipe isnt the big issue it used to be.
The reason it was there was to service the Teesside steel works which of course no longer exist.
Northumbrian Water are more open now to the idea of it being moved or built over, so I was told.....

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Mar 22, 2024 4:10 pm

I’m sure Scott Thornberry has been on here multiple times to say that the pipe simply can’t be moved under any circumstances.
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loan_star
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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by loan_star » Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:07 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 4:10 pm
I’m sure Scott Thornberry has been on here multiple times to say that the pipe simply can’t be moved under any circumstances.
Circumstances change.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:43 pm

loan_star wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 5:07 pm
[quote=theoriginalfatcat post_id=518798 time=<a href="tel:1711123807">1711123807</a> user_id=376]
I’m sure Scott Thornberry has been on here multiple times to say that the pipe simply can’t be moved under any circumstances.
Circumstances change.
[/quote]

Hmmm. Interesting.
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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by Darlobill » Fri Mar 22, 2024 7:50 pm

Reynolds moved the same pipe at the Arena cost him £1m or near enough.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by Spyman » Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:28 pm

Darlobill wrote:Reynolds moved the same pipe at the Arena cost him £1m or near enough.
Typical of him to move it to Blackwell Meadows and screw future Darlington FC. What a prick.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by Yarblockos » Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:56 pm

There was a suggestion floated on here a few years ago that Northumbrian water would allow building on top of the pipe as long as access hatches were installed. Don't know if that is the case.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by H1987 » Sat Mar 23, 2024 11:11 am

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:25 am
lo36789 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:31 am

Fully yes. The pipe only restricts at most a third of the away end. We know there is enough space to develop to step 1 standard.
Not quite true.

It restricts up to half of the away end and also part of the main stand side - it runs diagonal through the stadium footprint. There's a reason the stand is off centre.
It doesn’t, it crosses around the edge of the penalty area. There’s a projection of it somewhere on the website. You’d be able to build all the way until that point, so definitely more than half. Probably the most effective thing you could do long term is link it to the seated stand (which can also go further into the corner) and you could have an L shape.

But it very much does come back to the issue of money. We could potentially use some of the modular solutions to provide some terracing that might be moved, but as others have pointed out, we have to make whatever is left good when we leave, and would it boost the crowds that much? I suspect there’s a reasonable argument to be made that at least having some kind of sheltered terracing would boost away attendances, if nothing else. I’ve seen fans of various clubs (not just Spendy) that they won’t make the trip because they don’t want to be lumped with hard standing with a bad view and no shelter. That said, lots of clubs at this level barely bring any away fans at all…. It’s a fine balance.

We need some transparency on what is going on with the proposed new stadium. If, as I think we all suspect, it’s just a no go right now, then imo we should look at doing *something*. I’m tired of the atmosphere free windy field and I do think another stand would improve the place no end if we are there short-medium term. But until we know what is going on, this is all just slightly pointless. I find it frustrating because for a fan owned club I really do find the communication about the stadium sub par.

Anyway, rant over, back to today’s game.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by CharlesCraven » Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:42 pm

The situation with the pipe is thus:

- it's a 1 metre diameter, high pressure water main.

- you can't build within 6 metres of the outer edges of the pipe. This results in a 13 metre wide easement.

- it enters the pitch close to the goalkeeper's left hand post at the open end and exits close to the front right corner of the seated stand.

- I met with Northumbrian Water a few years ago to discuss the possibility of diverting it. The cost estimate was in the region of £1m+. I believe GR paid something in the region of £800k to divert the same pipe around the Arena.

- NW also showed me some slightly disconcerting footage of high pressure water main explosions - this was to emphasise the point that there's absolutely no prospect of DFC being allowed to build stands within the easement.


I can't think of any scenario where it would make good business sense to sink that sort of money into moving the pipe. Even in the unlikely event that DFC was to take ownership of BM, it would be more cost effective to build elsewhere on site.

More widely regarding BM, the only way that it could start to look like the long-term solution is if something fundamental were to change in terms of ownership / tenancy. DRFC understandably has no interest in selling up.

If we want to keep progressing in the long term, the future lies away from BM. Obviously we need to try and make the best of what we've got in the meantime.

Enjoy the match all. Massive game.

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Re: What's the point of fan ownership?

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:47 pm

CharlesCraven wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2024 2:42 pm

I can't think of any scenario where it would make good business sense to sink that sort of money into moving the pipe. Even in the unlikely event that DFC was to take ownership of BM, it would be more cost effective to build elsewhere on site.
No chance.

Assuming a cost of £1m to move the pipe, there is no way we can start from scratch elsewhere on site and build a 5,000 capacity stadium for less than £1m more than the cost to redevelop the existing site to a 5,000 capacity stadium. No chance.

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