Raj Singh's side of the story

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Darlo_CR
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Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Darlo_CR » Fri May 12, 2017 5:26 pm

TEESSIDE businessman Raj Singh has today released a statement on his proposed investment in Darlington, which he withdrew last night.

In his statement he also seeks to clarify what happened five years ago, when the club went into administration when he was Quakers' chairman.

We reproduce his statement here in full:

“I’ve always kept an eye on Darlington’s results and have loved seeing their recent successes. Having heard about the club’s predicament in being unable to take part in the promotion play-offs due to the stadium’s limitations, I wanted to help the club out.


“Believe it or not, as a local football fan and due to my previous involvement in the club, I’ve always retained a soft spot for Darlington. However, having seen the adverse reaction to the idea that I might become involved in the club once more, I’ve reluctantly decided to withdraw the offer I’d made to invest in the club.

“I’ve found it incredibly upsetting that so-called fans have judged and abused me despite not having the slightest idea of the real truth behind my previous involvement with the club.

“Despite what some people incorrectly believing that I tried to kill off the club, nothing could be further from the truth.

“The facts are that not one of these people would have done anything differently had they been in my position. When all that you have worked for over a 30 year period is a risk as a result of the most serious economic downturn in many generations whilst your personal life is suffering, that’s when you decide to call it a day.

“I am sick and tired of hearing stories about how I refused to give up my football share, with far-fetched rumours suggesting that was the reason why Darlington plummeted four leagues in one fell swoop.

“So I want to set the record straight. At the time, there were many different groups and people involved in talks about the club’s future. Some of them had hidden agenda – including Paul Wildes, who later tried to take over the club.


“During a series of meetings with different parties where various options were explored, one meeting was held with the club’s then chairman Dennis Pinneger, where it was proposed that I, as the club’s main creditor, would receive any future payments relating to Dan Burn’s transfer to Fulham (which I had worked hard for six months to negotiate). In turn, the proposal was that I would write off every penny the £2.5m-£3m I’d put into the club.

“In this meeting, Dennis specifically asked me that if this was agreed would I be prepared to hand over the football share, to which I replied ‘Yes, because it would be of no use to me.

“That same evening on BBC Tees, more of the club’s fans criticised me, insinuating that I was the one stopping things from moving forwards. Among these was the club’s then photographer and another who I presumed to be representing one of the groups that were trying to take control of the football club.

“This second individual specifically said words to the effect of ‘I don’t even think we need the football share from Mr Singh if we were prepared to start the next season a league below. It was clearly his belief that the club would just start again one league below where they then were. Clearly this was a poor call, as the FA later insisted they started again four leagues below where they had been.

“At no point was I asked for the football share after that day, so the suggestion that I kept hold of the share because I wanted the club to die is utter rubbish.


“I can compare the whole episode to paying for people to go on an all-expenses-paid trip. When the money runs out and you give them the bad news that you can’t pay for any more of the trip, they fall out with you, become insulting but then ask you to pay for their taxi home.

“That’s the position I was in – and it’s happening again right now. People are even doubting Martin Gray’s intentions after all he has done in taking the fans on a great adventure.

“On a more positive note, I would like to thank Martin Gray, director John Tempest and supporters group chairman Wayne Raper for sitting down with me to try to find a way of securing the club’s future.

“Any reasonable or logical person could see a long time ago that the club was going to come to a crossroads. It was clear that it was difficult to see a way forwards for the club without outside investment into improving the ground and the playing staff.

“The bottom line is that I can’t change what happened five years ago when I set off with a dream and vision for Darlington Football Club. For various reasons, things didn’t turn out the way any of us wanted, and for that I remain truly sorry for myself, the fans and the club.

“However, I’m not going to keep putting myself in the firing line in a way that disrupts my business and personal life once again.”

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by loan_star » Fri May 12, 2017 5:31 pm

This is what is annoying. Very few people know the full story but have decided that the rest of us aren't allowed to listen to what he had to say and offer. The board had decided it was good enough to put forward to the fans but because some people can't criticise without being abusive we will never know exactly what was on offer.

Its all very well being against the idea but some people need to take a good look at their conduct in my opinion.

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by al_quaker » Fri May 12, 2017 5:34 pm

Why didn't he release this a couple of days ago?

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by biccynana » Fri May 12, 2017 5:35 pm

Where do you start?

I am sick and tired of hearing stories about how I refused to give up my football share, with far-fetched rumours suggesting that was the reason why Darlington plummeted four leagues in one fell swoop.

What’s far-fetched about it? No football share, no such thing as DFC. That leads to DFC1883, a ‘new’ team as far as the FA is concerned, and new teams have to start way down the pyramid.

At no point was I asked for the football share after that day, so the suggestion that I kept hold of the share because I wanted the club to die is utter rubbish.

Why was it so difficult to just offer the share back without waiting to be asked?

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Q8Quaker » Fri May 12, 2017 5:35 pm

loan_star wrote:This is what is annoying. Very few people know the full story but have decided that the rest of us aren't allowed to listen to what he had to say and offer. The board had decided it was good enough to put forward to the fans but because some people can't criticise without being abusive we will never know exactly what was on offer.

Its all very well being against the idea but some people need to take a good look at their conduct in my opinion.

This :clap:

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Vodka_Vic » Fri May 12, 2017 5:41 pm

Still doesn't answer the football share question. If the FA say they needed the football share are we to believe that the club didn't ask for it?
Also, why didn't Raj go to the papers at that time to state his side of the story.
Also, if he was really bothered about clearing his name, he would have seen the Netcafé through.
More questions than answers here I'm afraid. Anthony Pinnegar posts on here. Would like to see how he reads this.

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by QuakerPete » Fri May 12, 2017 5:45 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:Still doesn't answer the football share question. If the FA say they needed the football share are we to believe that the club didn't ask for it?
Also, why didn't Raj go to the papers at that time to state his side of the story.
Also, if he was really bothered about clearing his name, he would have seen the Netcafé through.
More questions than answers here I'm afraid. Anthony Pinnegar posts on here. Would like to see how he reads this.
Of course it was asked for. My opinion is he just used it as a bargaining tool and didn't hand it over when he knew there was nothing in it for him financially


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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Vodka_Vic » Fri May 12, 2017 5:50 pm

I don't think we've heard the last of Raj and DFC. I'm certainly not going on a guilt trip as a result of that statement. Once again, though, this will divide us, and the fans will be pointing fingers at each other again. We've got to see beyond this statement and also statements like 'I've been hounded out'. No he wasn't. And this latest statement is full of holes.
And also, as I listened to the radio broadcast live in 2012, He said he was going to hand over the football share the next day, so why would they ask again.

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by PierremontQuaker03 » Fri May 12, 2017 6:00 pm

OK so we need to know what happened next then, in the next few weeks after the meeting, were there other meetings after people were turning on him.
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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Yarblockos » Fri May 12, 2017 6:03 pm

QuakerPete wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:Still doesn't answer the football share question. If the FA say they needed the football share are we to believe that the club didn't ask for it?
Also, why didn't Raj go to the papers at that time to state his side of the story.
Also, if he was really bothered about clearing his name, he would have seen the Netcafé through.
More questions than answers here I'm afraid. Anthony Pinnegar posts on here. Would like to see how he reads this.
Of course it was asked for. My opinion is he just used it as a bargaining tool and didn't hand it over when he knew there was nothing in it for him financially


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There have been discussions about the Golden Share on this forum before. I remember someone saying that the new FA rules meant that if you exited administration without a CVA then you would lose your golden share. Effectively suggesting that Singh had nothing to do with it (apart from not agreeing to the CVA of course).

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by m62exile » Fri May 12, 2017 6:12 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
QuakerPete wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:Still doesn't answer the football share question. If the FA say they needed the football share are we to believe that the club didn't ask for it?
Also, why didn't Raj go to the papers at that time to state his side of the story.
Also, if he was really bothered about clearing his name, he would have seen the Netcafé through.
More questions than answers here I'm afraid. Anthony Pinnegar posts on here. Would like to see how he reads this.
Of course it was asked for. My opinion is he just used it as a bargaining tool and didn't hand it over when he knew there was nothing in it for him financially


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There have been discussions about the Golden Share on this forum before. I remember someone saying that the new FA rules meant that if you exited administration without a CVA then you would lose your golden share. Effectively suggesting that Singh had nothing to do with it (apart from not agreeing to the CVA of course).
That was always my understanding too although I think that rule has been changed since. If that's not right, it would be helpful if someone could point me to the correct reference.

As for the story, I'm with loan star- I'd rather we had the chance to make a decision but we'll not now so let just crack on.

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by roadrunner » Fri May 12, 2017 6:20 pm

loan_star wrote:This is what is annoying. Very few people know the full story but have decided that the rest of us aren't allowed to listen to what he had to say and offer. The board had decided it was good enough to put forward to the fans but because some people can't criticise without being abusive we will never know exactly what was on offer.

Its all very well being against the idea but some people need to take a good look at their conduct in my opinion.
Exactly that's why we need this forum to have a fee say 5 or 10 pounds a month to be able to post.
To stop these 3/4 game a season posters on this site.

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Darlo_H » Fri May 12, 2017 6:23 pm

He does love the sound of his own voice a bit doesn't he?
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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by loan_star » Fri May 12, 2017 6:24 pm

roadrunner wrote:
loan_star wrote:This is what is annoying. Very few people know the full story but have decided that the rest of us aren't allowed to listen to what he had to say and offer. The board had decided it was good enough to put forward to the fans but because some people can't criticise without being abusive we will never know exactly what was on offer.

Its all very well being against the idea but some people need to take a good look at their conduct in my opinion.
Exactly that's why we need this forum to have a fee say 5 or 10 pounds a month to be able to post.
To stop these 3/4 game a season posters on this site.
And how do you keep them quiet on Facebook and twitter?

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by quaker4life » Fri May 12, 2017 6:29 pm

Sorry but you are 5 years too late.

If you thought you'd be welcomed back with open arms you are as foolish and short sited as those on here who believed you were buying the White Elephant back for them.

5 years ago you had the opportunity to swallow your pride and ask for help but you didn't, coming back after all these years of sustained silence and waiting till after you have once again withdrawn to say all this is not good enough.

You had the opportunity the first time to do the right thing and you almost had it a second time and on both counts you've failed.

Once again, goodbye Mr Singh.
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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Vodka_Vic » Fri May 12, 2017 6:32 pm

You can't and you won't, but this is 2017. It's the main pitfall of social media, and anyone in any sort of position knows that. Look how big Fake News is now. In the 80s it was the written media. You know people will be posting rubbish, so you don't read it, or you ignore it if it's nonsense. The best way of replying to any untruths would be to go to a public platform, the Netcafé, which was set up for this purpose, and you may have more support after this. I still think that the 'Hounded out by social media' is a convenient excuse. He should have USED social media as a platform to reply. He was given this, but chose to not go through with it.

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Darlogramps » Fri May 12, 2017 6:56 pm

loan_star wrote:This is what is annoying. Very few people know the full story but have decided that the rest of us aren't allowed to listen to what he had to say and offer. The board had decided it was good enough to put forward to the fans but because some people can't criticise without being abusive we will never know exactly what was on offer.

Its all very well being against the idea but some people need to take a good look at their conduct in my opinion.
You've been abusive towards me on here in the past, so you're being a tad hypocritical here. When you started with namecalling when I challenged you for blaming AFC Fylde for our fans' misbehaviour, did you take a good look at your conduct?

And the idea fans drove a businessman of 30 years' experience away because of a few nasty comments on social media is a bit far-fetched.

As I said previously, Singh realised he was never going to achieve his ultimate aim, of obtaining 51%, and has backed away. And now he's blaming the fans, overhyping the abuse angle as cover.

I've not seen anything I didn't expect to be said about Singh - if he thought he'd be welcomed back with open arms, then it's the most staggering lack of self-awareness I've ever encountered.

Also, Singh must be one of the most thin-skinned people I've ever come across - up there with George Reynolds. It's like he goes routing through social media to find any sort of comment made about him.
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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Darlogramps » Fri May 12, 2017 7:07 pm

As for Singh's statement, I don't buy it at all.

If the share was worthless to him, why not approach the board and hand it over? I don't buy that no one approached him and asked for the share.

His explanation for putting us in administration is this:
When all that you have worked for over a 30 year period is a risk as a result of the most serious economic downturn in many generations whilst your personal life is suffering, that’s when you decide to call it a day.
Economic downturn apparently. So he wants us to believe he was in no way interested in taking over the land. In that case, why did he rail against the council for not lifting covenants on the land?

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... on-1367471

And why was he so keen to buy the land/stadium from Scott and Sizer?

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.c ... quit_club/

In short, I don't believe for one minute what he's saying. He could never be trusted and this statement reinforces that. It just comes across as self-pitying victim playing. For our sake and Raj's, I'm glad he's not going to be involved.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Fri May 12, 2017 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Lincolnshire_Quaker » Fri May 12, 2017 7:10 pm

Yesterday, before Raj threw in the towel, I contacted Jenny Chapman. Jenny was on the DFC Advisory Board along with David Hodgson, back in the early days after 2012 and therefore has a good knowledge of the situation as it was at the time. I reminded her of words she used in the Foreword to Ray Simpson’s book published in 2013: about the club being run "for the community, and not for individual, ambition or aggrandisement" and asked if she had any thoughts on the situation that had developed over the last 2-3 weeks. This is her response:

“I’d heard rumours about Raj coming back, but didn't think he'd have the nerve. I feel really uneasy about the whole thing, it goes against the ethos we've tried to develop of fans being in control. He could make a donation if he wants to help, but why should we allow him to have any more of a say than any other fan? That's not the vision of a fan owned club we had. After all our experience of being beholden to wealthy individuals who eventually lose interest I'd have thought this would be a step backwards not forwards for the club. Ultimately it's for the fans to decide whether and on what terms Raj can be involved, I'm sure they'll think long and hard about it. Happy for you to share these comments as you see fit.”

For me this says two things:

a) The feelings expressed on this forum and social media are not just those of people sat behind keyboards with little else better to do. It was / is much wider than that.

b) There are people out there who will support the club not just out of divine loyalty but because they see the wider picture and know how valuable it is to the town and community. We just have to tap into it in the right way and unlock the door.
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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by The Golden Hairclip » Fri May 12, 2017 7:18 pm

Spot on Jenny. You've got my vote! Thanks for sharing LQ


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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by roadrunner » Fri May 12, 2017 7:26 pm

Lincolnshire_Quaker wrote:Yesterday, before Raj threw in the towel, I contacted Jenny Chapman. Jenny was on the DFC Advisory Board along with David Hodgson, back in the early days after 2012 and therefore has a good knowledge of the situation as it was at the time. I reminded her of words she used in the Foreword to Ray Simpson’s book published in 2013: about the club being run "for the community, and not for individual, ambition or aggrandisement" and asked if she had any thoughts on the situation that had developed over the last 2-3 weeks. This is her response:

“I’d heard rumours about Raj coming back, but didn't think he'd have the nerve. I feel really uneasy about the whole thing, it goes against the ethos we've tried to develop of fans being in control. He could make a donation if he wants to help, but why should we allow him to have any more of a say than any other fan? That's not the vision of a fan owned club we had. After all our experience of being beholden to wealthy individuals who eventually lose interest I'd have thought this would be a step backwards not forwards for the club. Ultimately it's for the fans to decide whether and on what terms Raj can be involved, I'm sure they'll think long and hard about it. Happy for you to share these comments as you see fit.”

For me this says two things:

a) The feelings expressed on this forum and social media are not just those of people sat behind keyboards with little else better to do. It was / is much wider than that.

b) There are people out there who will support the club not just out of divine loyalty but because they see the wider picture and know how valuable it is to the town and community. We just have to tap into it in the right way and unlock the door.
There must be an election coming up she,s just won 65% votes

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by al_quaker » Fri May 12, 2017 7:29 pm

Lincolnshire_Quaker wrote:
“I’d heard rumours about Raj coming back, but didn't think he'd have the nerve. I feel really uneasy about the whole thing, it goes against the ethos we've tried to develop of fans being in control. He could make a donation if he wants to help, but why should we allow him to have any more of a say than any other fan? That's not the vision of a fan owned club we had. After all our experience of being beholden to wealthy individuals who eventually lose interest I'd have thought this would be a step backwards not forwards for the club. Ultimately it's for the fans to decide whether and on what terms Raj can be involved, I'm sure they'll think long and hard about it. Happy for you to share these comments as you see fit.”
Good words from Jenny Chapman.

To be fair to Singh, he has made a donation which has helped (£10k towards the pitch), and I'm sure everyone would be happy if he wanted to make anymore contributions to the development of infrastructure. After all, Singh himself said "Having heard about the club’s predicament in being unable to take part in the promotion play-offs due to the stadium’s limitations, I wanted to help the club out". I'm not sure he'd ever be welcomed back as an owner by a majority, but a few more substantial donations would certainly help us and may start to improve his reputation a bit.

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by The Golden Hairclip » Fri May 12, 2017 7:29 pm

By the way, just so everyone is clear, Raj's interest is still about the Arena. He wanted to take us back there and develop the wider site. Darlington FC has and always will be just a vehicle for making money.


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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by Vodka_Vic » Fri May 12, 2017 7:52 pm

A couple of questions Hair clip. Firstly, are your sources 'People in the know' and secondly, as he couldn't get the council to change the covenant for non-sporting purposes, did this plan involve the MG academy, so that there would still be development allowed as this is for a sporting reason?

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by darlo reborn » Fri May 12, 2017 7:57 pm

If that was the case why waste ten grand on the pitch we would not be playing on

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by grimsbyquaker » Fri May 12, 2017 7:58 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:A couple of questions Hair clip. Firstly, are your sources 'People in the know' and secondly, as he couldn't get the council to change the covenant for non-sporting purposes, did this plan involve the MG academy, so that there would still be development allowed as this is for a sporting reason?
Like we suspected...

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri May 12, 2017 8:00 pm

darlo reborn wrote:If that was the case why waste ten grand on the pitch we would not be playing on
The cynic in me suggests this was just a sweetener in the hope it got us lined up to accept.
Last edited by super_les_mcjannet on Fri May 12, 2017 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by loan_star » Fri May 12, 2017 8:01 pm

Darlogramps wrote:
You've been abusive towards me on here in the past, so you're being a tad hypocritical here. When you started with namecalling when I challenged you for blaming AFC Fylde for our fans' misbehaviour, did you take a good look at your conduct? .
Ermmm righto, anything I said to you, when you were being argumentative and provocative like you regularly are on here with people who disagree with you, pales into significance to some of the stuff aimed at Singh over the last few days.

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by loan_star » Fri May 12, 2017 8:02 pm

The Golden Hairclip wrote:By the way, just so everyone is clear, Raj's interest is still about the Arena. He wanted to take us back there and develop the wider site. Darlington FC has and always will be just a vehicle for making money.


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Why not just buy DMPRFC then?

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Re: Raj Singh's side of the story

Post by The Golden Hairclip » Fri May 12, 2017 8:06 pm

grimsbyquaker wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:A couple of questions Hair clip. Firstly, are your sources 'People in the know' and secondly, as he couldn't get the council to change the covenant for non-sporting purposes, did this plan involve the MG academy, so that there would still be development allowed as this is for a sporting reason?
Like we suspected...
1. People in the know - Yes.
2. MG academy - Don't know.



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