Fans Forum

[Darlobill]

Anyone have news on when this will be?

[quaker4life]

A week today, Feb 2nd.

[PierremontQuaker03]

I think we need an update on the ground situation (even if there is no update) - we need the council onboard with the club over a new ground. We need one in, or close to the town centre. I know its pie in the sky, but every two weeks that would bring 2,000 people into the town which it what the town centre desperately needs. Partnerships can be made with developers, large retailers, sponsorships etc etc. We just need to know what is being tried and thought about. Blackwell is a mess and is as non league as it gets.

[Old Git]

I think we need an update on the ground situation (even if there is no update) - we need the council onboard with the club over a new ground. We need one in, or close to the town centre. I know its pie in the sky, but every two weeks that would bring 2,000 people into the town which it what the town centre desperately needs. Partnerships can be made with developers, large retailers, sponsorships etc etc. We just need to know what is being tried and thought about. Blackwell is a mess and is as non league as it gets.

Don’t disagree with any of the above comments but where in or near the town centre is there enough spare land to develop a football stadium? Genuine question does anyone have a realistic answer because I don’t have one.

[MB86DFC]

I think we need an update on the ground situation (even if there is no update) - we need the council onboard with the club over a new ground. We need one in, or close to the town centre. I know its pie in the sky, but every two weeks that would bring 2,000 people into the town which it what the town centre desperately needs. Partnerships can be made with developers, large retailers, sponsorships etc etc. We just need to know what is being tried and thought about. Blackwell is a mess and is as non league as it gets.

Don’t disagree with any of the above comments but where in or near the town centre is there enough spare land to develop a football stadium? Genuine question does anyone have a realistic answer because I don’t have one.

It's almost impossible to get anywhere close to the centre. The only plots of land that would fit a small stadium are the cricket ground and Polam School fields, and they're not options. I've seen Faverdale industrial estate mentioned somewhere, but I'd rather not move at all id that was the only other option. Identikit stadiums in retail parks / industrial estates are as depressing as it gets - Chester, for example, is a miserable experience.

It's all a bit of a pointless debate anyway as we'd need millions.

[Heaton out]

I think we need an update on the ground situation (even if there is no update) - we need the council onboard with the club over a new ground. We need one in, or close to the town centre. I know its pie in the sky, but every two weeks that would bring 2,000 people into the town which it what the town centre desperately needs. Partnerships can be made with developers, large retailers, sponsorships etc etc. We just need to know what is being tried and thought about. Blackwell is a mess and is as non league as it gets.

Totally agree with the above, any update would be good and this has to be the long term priority even if it is long long term. Getting the dreaded council on board is paramount.

[lo36789]

I really just don't see where £6million is just going to materialise from (that was pre-post-pandemic building cost inflation)

It's easy to say we need the council on board...on board what? What do we want them to actually do?

There is no money. There is no land. There are no plans that we are seeking planning approval upon.

I highly doubt if we identified some under-utilised council owned land in the Town Centre and had the means to pay for a ground they would actually do anything but support us - but they aren't going to have any bandwith. On the list of priorities for councils who, if they are not going insolvent, are having their funding slashed all whilst their residents are suffering from cost of living crisis, the town's football club is going to be somewhere near the very very very bottom of the pile...as it rightly should be.

Maybe we can get someone to tap the chancellor on the shoulder next time he is in the treasury offices. The annual growth one of his off-shore blind investments will probably more than cover what we are after.

[Heaton out]

I really just don't see where £6million is just going to materialise from (that was pre-post-pandemic building cost inflation)

It's easy to say we need the council on board...on board what? What do we want them to actually do?

There is no money. There is no land. There are no plans that we are seeking planning approval upon.

I highly doubt if we identified some under-utilised council owned land in the Town Centre and had the means to pay for a ground they would actually do anything but support us - but they aren't going to have any bandwith. On the list of priorities for councils who, if they are not going insolvent, are having their funding slashed all whilst their residents are suffering from cost of living crisis, the town's football club is going to be somewhere near the very very very bottom of the pile...as it rightly should be.

Maybe we can get someone to tap the chancellor on the shoulder next time he is in the treasury offices. The annual growth one of his off-shore blind investments will probably more than cover what we are after.

Regardless of all the above negativity it has to be the long term aim, DJ knows this, it is the only way the club will progress in terms of generating income and turning professional etc, however I know some do not seem to want this as the risk factor outweighs the ambition for them.

Yes you are correct as in we don't have the answers on funding and land but it still remains the long term main aim.

[onewayup]

lo36789 , there are Grant's available from different areas for a new ground development, there is land as has been said before several areas were identified and and needed to be whittled down to one most suitable for the needs of the football club, that is being done all positive for Darlington FC .We cannot put the cart before the horse can we, everything takes Time especially to get the best result for our football club. Let's keep things positive,

[jjljks]

I think we need an update on the ground situation (even if there is no update) - we need the council onboard with the club over a new ground. We need one in, or close to the town centre. I know its pie in the sky, but every two weeks that would bring 2,000 people into the town which it what the town centre desperately needs. Partnerships can be made with developers, large retailers, sponsorships etc etc. We just need to know what is being tried and thought about. Blackwell is a mess and is as non league as it gets.

Don’t disagree with any of the above comments but where in or near the town centre is there enough spare land to develop a football stadium? Genuine question does anyone have a realistic answer because I don’t have one.

The prime plot would be the desolation behind Boots in Northgate after the demolition of the old United Reform church, Plastered Parrot & 2 car parks. Keep the parking places underneath the pitch (like Monaco) & have small workshops / business units at street level with all purpose community stadium on top.

[lo36789]

Yes you are correct as in we don't have the answers on funding and land but it still remains the long term main aim.

And that is fine, but ultimately long term means that there will probably be 4 to 5 cycles of council leaders by the time we land on anything. We could have 4 or 5 new governments by the time it materialises never mind anything else.

Regardless of all the above negativity it has to be the long term aim, DJ knows this, it is the only way the club will progress in terms of generating income and turning professional etc, however I know some do not seem to want this as the risk factor outweighs the ambition for them.

It is not about now 'wanting' this - or the risk factor outweighing the ambition. I do think it is very much a question of "and then what..." why is professional football the only measure of progress? Why is it not increasing the number of people through the gates, increasing the number of owners?

there are Grant's available from different areas for a new ground development

I thought there was matched funding available - but there is a ceiling on how much within a certain time-frame and we have effectively had our lot for quite a while as I understand it? You don't just get given £6million from grants.

My point is that pointing at the council, and getting anywhere close to moaning that they are not helping / doing anything, seems a bit futile at the moment. I wouldn't actually want or expect them to be doing an awful lot.

[lo36789]

The prime plot would be the desolation behind Boots in Northgate after the demolition of the old United Reform church, Plastered Parrot & 2 car parks. Keep the parking places underneath the pitch (like Monaco) & have small workshops / business units at street level with all purpose community stadium on top.

That is certainly one way to increase the cost of the build five fold by going for a stadium built over the top of an underground car park.

There is a very good reason why Monaco's stadium is built the way it is, and it is heavily down to the opportunity cost of space that to some extent they couldn't afford not to build over the top.

If the community stadium is all purpose - how do Darlington Football Club commercially benefit from that over and above what we have at Blackwell? Surely the other community organisations will be as equally entitled to use and also to revenue generation? Or are the council backing this plan to make the football club the landlords of community sporting activity in the town...because...?

This is before you factor in that a football pitch barely fits on that site, so unless you are planning to knock down Queens street shopping centre or the surrounding shops and bars, or re route the main road to accommodate the stands there is an instant problem.

[Darlobill]

If we could get the investment to buy out DRFC as they only lease the land from the DBC. It’s a huge area which you could redevelop into a new stadium and other sports in conjunction with the council. Dreaming I know but a possibility otherwise I just can’t see an suitable area in the town.

[jjljks]

Any Town centre site will be more costly & best to repurpose Blackwell Meadows completely (apart from Tin Shed!). Demolish club house & move the pitch to avoid the water main. Deffo cheaper option but not very central for town & travel connections.

[quaker4life]

Regardless of whether or not anything has solidified yet, I do think the board need to outline our long term vision be it further development at Blackwell or relocating etc, etc.

I went to see South Shields play Witton Albion last night and I have to say I was somewhat envious, they are a club that is developing, a club that is progressing and a club that is growing, Filtrona Park is now virtually unrecognisable from how it was previously and the new main stand looks impressive.

At Darlington currently I see the opposite, I see a club that is stood still, a club that is stagnant and a club that appears to have reached it's ceiling, all told we are currently in our 7th season in the National League North and it was only in one of those seasons that we ever looked like mounting a serious promotion challenge.

The truth is we're not nearly ready to compete in the National League and nor do we appear to be any closer to being in a position where we can turn professional, we have become a run of the mill non league outfit after having a few successful years we have now plateaued. Before anyone starts this is not a criticism of DJ or AA or anyone else but I do think we need some clarity on how we plan to move forward, do we honestly see a professional Football League side playing at Blackwell Meadows?

The set up we have now is okay for the level we're at but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that if we are going to try and compete against some much wealthier professional teams in the levels above our infrastructure will have to be expanded quite substantially. Of course there is no magic money tree or no magic wand we can wave but having a blue print or a road map for the future will be at least a step in the right direction.

[lo36789]

What if the board said the long term plan was to simply increase attendance, develop community partnerships, increase participation in football across the town and to provide an affordable place for people to go on a Saturday afternoon?

Then what?

The thing that is correct is it is the boards job to define a strategy and for that strategy to be voted in by the shareholders. I guess I am not entirely bought into this idea that we need professional football and football league...just because...and regardless most businesses determine strategies that are circa 5 years into the future - I think it is optimistic to thing that a realistic strategy is to achieve that in 5 years.

[quaker4life]

What if the board said the long term plan was to simply increase attendance, develop community partnerships, increase participation in football across the town and to provide an affordable place for people to go on a Saturday afternoon?

Then what?

To be honest you are right it is the boards job to define a strategy and for that strategy to be approved by the shareholders. I am just not bought into this idea that we need professional football and football league...just because.

What if they don't?

Then what?

And it's not a case of need it's more a case of want I want us to progress and I want us to move forward, if you're happy with being part of the furniture in the NLN that's fair enough but I am old enough to remember a time when Darlington were a professional Football League side, and a time when we had an ideally placed (albeit aging) ground in the town centre and one day I would like to see us return to something as close to that as possible.

[lo36789]

So are a lot of us - but I just think that there is possibly a lot more good that the club can do for the local community as a NLN club with an appropriate community engagement strategy than it can as a Football League business.

So far the strongest argument that has existed for why the Football League and a professional club is the promised land is because that is where people remember us being before.

They will also probably be the first people who will gripe that it costs £24+ for an adult ticket if the time comes.

[theoriginalfatcat]

What if the board said the long term plan was to simply increase attendance, develop community partnerships, increase participation in football across the town and to provide an affordable place for people to go on a Saturday afternoon?

Then what?

The thing that is correct is it is the boards job to define a strategy and for that strategy to be voted in by the shareholders. I guess I am not entirely bought into this idea that we need professional football and football league...just because...and regardless most businesses determine strategies that are circa 5 years into the future - I think it is optimistic to thing that a realistic strategy is to achieve that in 5 years.

Well lo, I don't think the board would say that and I don't think they would want to say that. And -- I don't think it's what the majority of fans want to here.

Speaking for myself here, I like the fan owned thing and I like to think my expectations are realistic but on saying that we need to have ambition to reach up into the next league and to better (to some extent) our stadium. This (to me) is achievable and there's nothing wrong with achievable ambitions.

If and when we reach the top of the non league pyramid, then a large part of me will be pretty content with that - I was okay with us dwelling in league 2 back in our Feethams days, it would of been nice to go up but not a necessity.

[Old Git]

So are a lot of us - but I just think that there is possibly a lot more good that the club can do for the local community as a NLN club with an appropriate community engagement strategy than it can as a Football League business.

So far the strongest argument that has existed for why the Football League and a professional club is the promised land is because that is where people remember us being before.

They will also probably be the first people who will gripe that it costs £24+ for an adult ticket if the time comes.

What does “Appropriate community engagement strategy “ actually mean in plain English?
This is the kind of gobbledygook that David Mills (what happened to him) used to talk at fan’s forums and it just sounded like a load of meaningless big words strung together. Very impressive but what it has to do with a football club I have no idea.
I fully accept that I am something of a dinosaur, but I expect a football club to concentrate on playing football. When did the purpose of a football club become to do good in the local community? Don’t get me wrong I am happy to donate towards the Foodbank etc. but surely this is a side issue not the primary purpose of a football club.

[lo36789]

I fully accept that I am something of a dinosaur, but I expect a football club to concentrate on playing football. When did the purpose of a football club become to do good in the local community? Don’t get me wrong I am happy to donate towards the Foodbank etc. but surely this is a side issue not the primary purpose of a football club.

This might massively disappoint your view on the world but most of the professional clubs in the country are generally set up to return money to their shareholders especially those that are listed on the stock exchange.

It might shock you but the controlling shareholder of Darlington Football Club exists to provide community benefit....https://www.gov.uk/set-up-a-social-enterprise. That is its purpose.

Once you get out of the elite then the greatest value in football clubs is their status as community hub. The local club that I volunteer at provide free facilities to the biggest inclusion football set up in the country, let the local health trust use it's clubhouse for free while schools were closed to vaccinate kids, hires out the pitch for 20 hours per week for community use at cost (pitch maintenance) and so on...

Increasing access, increasing interest and participation in sport, providing opportunity to young and vulnerable people who would otherwise not have it.

If Darlington FC did a survey of all school kids under the age of 10 in the town this year on how many support Darlington. It might be 1%ish (at a guess). A measure of success could be to double that in 5 years.

That would be a long term growth ambition for the club...then it is a question of how do you make that happen.

[MB86DFC]

I fully accept that I am something of a dinosaur, but I expect a football club to concentrate on playing football. When did the purpose of a football club become to do good in the local community? Don’t get me wrong I am happy to donate towards the Foodbank etc. but surely this is a side issue not the primary purpose of a football club.

This might massively disappoint your view on the world but most of the professional clubs in the country are generally set up to return money to their shareholders especially those that are listed on the stock exchange.

It might shock you but the controlling shareholder of Darlington Football Club exists to provide community benefit....https://www.gov.uk/set-up-a-social-enterprise. That is its purpose.

Once you get out of the elite then the greatest value in football clubs is their status as community hub. The local club that I volunteer at provide free facilities to the biggest inclusion football set up in the country, let the local health trust use it's clubhouse for free while schools were closed to vaccinate kids, hires out the pitch for 20 hours per week for community use at cost (pitch maintenance) and so on...

Increasing access, increasing interest and participation in sport, providing opportunity to young and vulnerable people who would otherwise not have it.

If Darlington FC did a survey of all school kids under the age of 10 in the town this year on how many support Darlington. It might be 1%ish (at a guess). A measure of success could be to double that in 5 years.

That would be a long term growth ambition for the club...then it is a question of how do you make that happen.

The biggest measure of success will be what happens on the pitch. Engagement is a way to make that happen. More engagement should mean more fans and sponsorship opportunities which leads to more income, and then hopefully a better squad. For me the engagement is important to raise the profile of the club. The main success measure is on field success and the engagement should be with that in mind.

[lo36789]

Don't disagree that it gives a greater chance of on field success.

But actually if we fall short even still at least more people will be enjoying having a team to support.

People keep talking about Blackwell not being a football ground, but most traditional grounds on the EFL have been built over time with new bits added on and they are misshapen / offset but that is how they are.

Look at the likes of Bristol Rovers and Carlisle as examples. Even Harrogate is basically about 6 or 7 different stands these days that have just been added on.

We only need to do these things as and when the are needed.

Those that are saying "we need progress" how many years is too long in NLN and if we don't get promoted then is that is mission failed might as well give up?

By the time we need to develop the clubhouse side of BM could be 20-25 years time. The building might be due a renovation by that point anyway so there will a mutual benefit in developing it more as a purpose built stand.

Improving sight lines can be done without the need for a new ground..if you want terrible sightlines at a football ground see Salford City and Crawley.

[Darlobill]

We definitely need some identified direction by both boards they can’t just keep kicking this in to the long grass and ask for fan financial support or sponsorship.

[lo36789]

We definitely need some identified direction by both boards they can’t just keep kicking this in to the long grass and ask for fan financial support or sponsorship.

Most football clubs rely on sponsorship and financial support from their owners.

Seems to be asking the impossible to get our board to achieve something different.

[Old Git]

I fully accept that I am something of a dinosaur, but I expect a football club to concentrate on playing football. When did the purpose of a football club become to do good in the local community? Don’t get me wrong I am happy to donate towards the Foodbank etc. but surely this is a side issue not the primary purpose of a football club.

This might massively disappoint your view on the world but most of the professional clubs in the country are generally set up to return money to their shareholders especially those that are listed on the stock exchange.

It might shock you but the controlling shareholder of Darlington Football Club exists to provide community benefit....https://www.gov.uk/set-up-a-social-enterprise. That is its purpose.

Once you get out of the elite then the greatest value in football clubs is their status as community hub. The local club that I volunteer at provide free facilities to the biggest inclusion football set up in the country, let the local health trust use it's clubhouse for free while schools were closed to vaccinate kids, hires out the pitch for 20 hours per week for community use at cost (pitch maintenance) and so on...

Increasing access, increasing interest and participation in sport, providing opportunity to young and vulnerable people who would otherwise not have it.

If Darlington FC did a survey of all school kids under the age of 10 in the town this year on how many support Darlington. It might be 1%ish (at a guess). A measure of success could be to double that in 5 years.

That would be a long term growth ambition for the club...then it is a question of how do you make that happen.

All a bit pie I the sky. Most kids I have come across want to be associated with big Premiership clubs like Man. Utd. Liverpool etc. Sadly that is unlikely to change, community engagement or not. Success on the pitch much more likely to attract new supporters.
Dream on if it makes you happy, meanwhile in the real world, football clubs are for football.

[quaker4life]

People keep talking about Blackwell not being a football ground

That's because Blackwell Meadows isn't a football ground, it's a rugby ground.

Look at the likes of Bristol Rovers and Carlisle as examples. Even Harrogate is basically about 6 or 7 different stands these days that have just been added on.

We only need to do these things as and when the are needed.

Precisely, but when push comes to shove we need to be in a position to add stands which will require finance and as a fan owned club with no external investors we need to be prepared for this eventuality.

Those that are saying "we need progress" how many years is too long in NLN and if we don't get promoted then is that is mission failed might as well give up?

Is settling for staying in the NLN not giving up? We can spend as many years as is necessary at this level but there has to at least be an ambition to progress otherwise all the hard work over the last decade to get the club where it is now will have been wasted.

By the time we need to develop the clubhouse side of BM could be 20-25 years time. The building might be due a renovation by that point anyway so there will a mutual benefit in developing it more as a purpose built stand.

Who's to say we'll still be playing at BM in 20-25 years time? Anything could happen in the next 2-5 years which could alter our position, the point here is it's not about needing to progress it's about being able to progress, right now we do not have infrastructure on or off the pitch to get much further than we are now.

You may be content to sit in the NLN for all time but some of us would like to see us go beyond where we are now.

[lo36789]

Dream on if it makes you happy, meanwhile in the real world, football clubs are for football.

I am afraid as we learnt many years ago in the professional game most are for money / business.

Amazing how short some memories are and clearly the permanent reminder at the ground isn't enough.

Seems to be all about making money based on what I'm reading above.

[Darlogramps]

I fully accept that I am something of a dinosaur, but I expect a football club to concentrate on playing football. When did the purpose of a football club become to do good in the local community? Don’t get me wrong I am happy to donate towards the Foodbank etc. but surely this is a side issue not the primary purpose of a football club.

This might massively disappoint your view on the world but most of the professional clubs in the country are generally set up to return money to their shareholders especially those that are listed on the stock exchange.

It might shock you but the controlling shareholder of Darlington Football Club exists to provide community benefit....https://www.gov.uk/set-up-a-social-enterprise. That is its purpose.

Once you get out of the elite then the greatest value in football clubs is their status as community hub. The local club that I volunteer at provide free facilities to the biggest inclusion football set up in the country, let the local health trust use it's clubhouse for free while schools were closed to vaccinate kids, hires out the pitch for 20 hours per week for community use at cost (pitch maintenance) and so on...

Increasing access, increasing interest and participation in sport, providing opportunity to young and vulnerable people who would otherwise not have it.

If Darlington FC did a survey of all school kids under the age of 10 in the town this year on how many support Darlington. It might be 1%ish (at a guess). A measure of success could be to double that in 5 years.

That would be a long term growth ambition for the club...then it is a question of how do you make that happen.

All a bit pie I the sky. Most kids I have come across want to be associated with big Premiership clubs like Man. Utd. Liverpool etc. Sadly that is unlikely to change, community engagement or not. Success on the pitch much more likely to attract new supporters.
Dream on if it makes you happy, meanwhile in the real world, football clubs are for football.

Thank goodness you’re nowhere near running the club. We wouldn’t have a club left if you were. You really sound so out of touch.

The idea of “win on the pitch and it’ll all be grand” is way too simplistic. No club can win forever as you hit a ceiling. Particularly a club likes our which can’t bankroll its way to success any more.

Winning might provide a short-term hit but fans soon disappear once you’re drawing 1-1 at home to Maidenhead or Port Vale on a cold Tuesday night in December.

Actually, the clubs that see sustained growth are the ones that engage with their community. For all we take the piss about how they’re bankrolled, it is something Spennymoor have done really well with in the last decade. Their big growth in attendances hasn’t just come about through on the field success.

All community engagement means is talking to people who aren’t regular supporters, making a fuss of them, selling the club to them and converting them into more regular supporters. Do that and you have more fans through the door, or more new small businesses sponsoring the club.

You absolutely have to make a fuss of young supporters. Get into schools, run academy sessions, the occasional free ticket drive etc. Otherwise where’s the fanbase of future decades going to be, if you just give up on young kids now?

None of that is pie in the sky. It’s fairly sensible.

[lo36789]

Actually, the clubs that see sustained growth are the ones that engage with their community. For all we take the piss about how they’re bankrolled, it is something Spennymoor have done really well with in the last decade. Their big growth in attendances hasn’t just come about through on the field success.

It's actually a nice comparison.

Spennymoor are a team playing at the same level as us yet with a population of <20000 they are able to average 15 more fans per game than us with a population of c. 93000.

If we could get the same level of engagement we'd be getting 6000 through the gate (if we could fit them in)

If we did that we'd suddenly have a bit more spending power...

Remember Spennymoor play at the same level as us so that is not the issue.