The moment we've all been waiting for...
Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Nantwich Town have effectively closed in their latest statement.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
If we effectively only have a license to play at Blackwell, and pay so much a game - do we still have any liability? We don’t own the ground or any part of it. I don’t wish any problems onto the rugby club but the Government have closed football down so are we liable for rent on something we can’t use?
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
We pay a set fee per season (paid monthly) for a set number of games rather than on a match by match basistheoriginalfatcat wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:21 pmIf we effectively only have a license to play at Blackwell, and pay so much a game - do we still have any liability? We don’t own the ground or any part of it. I don’t wish any problems onto the rugby club but the Government have closed football down so are we liable for rent on something we can’t use?
Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
HarrytheQuaker wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 pmDarlo_Pete wrote:Give it a rest Harry. Sounding like a broken record now.
Several of us have stated Pete included that we believe our costs may be lower than some clubs and we are not reliant on the whim of a single benefactor.
Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Rishi Sunak says he will pay a grant to enable the club to cover 80% of wages where we are unable to operate due to Covid19 to avoid laying off workers. Deferring VAT until June which will help too. Will still be a struggle to keep the club together, but we can do it.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Old Git wrote:HarrytheQuaker wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 pmI will just for youDarlo_Pete wrote:Give it a rest Harry. Sounding like a broken record now.
Several of us have stated Pete included that we believe our costs may be lower than some clubs and we are not reliant on the whim of a single benefactor.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Because unlike a lot of clubs at our level we have a large fanbase, that has repeatedly helped to subsidise the club. Fans will be asked again to help with btb & I'm sure there will be a very positive response from the fans, especially if the very survival of the club could be under threat.HarrytheQuaker wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 pmStill not answered the question about how WE will survive better than other clubs Pete??Darlo_Pete wrote:They hardly get any crowds, so I would presume that they would lose money on each game they play. Darlington MP will also be in trouble, especially as would seem likely Tom Jones is cancelled at the Arena. Yes I think a lot of clubs that have rich benefactors will be extremely worried, as the owners may pull out having lost so much of their wealth due to the Coronavirus outbreak. Players wages will decrease as they will have to be realistic, but any clubs that have a rich benefactor could really profit from this as they'll still be able to attract decent wages & so naturally the best talent will want to play for them.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
But we don't have a bottomless pit of cash as people have to feed there families and football will take a back step unfortunately..Darlo_Pete wrote:Because unlike a lot of clubs at our level we have a large fanbase, that has repeatedly helped to subsidise the club. Fans will be asked again to help with btb & I'm sure there will be a very positive response from the fans, especially if the very survival of the club could be under threat.HarrytheQuaker wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 pmStill not answered the question about how WE will survive better than other clubs Pete??Darlo_Pete wrote:They hardly get any crowds, so I would presume that they would lose money on each game they play. Darlington MP will also be in trouble, especially as would seem likely Tom Jones is cancelled at the Arena. Yes I think a lot of clubs that have rich benefactors will be extremely worried, as the owners may pull out having lost so much of their wealth due to the Coronavirus outbreak. Players wages will decrease as they will have to be realistic, but any clubs that have a rich benefactor could really profit from this as they'll still be able to attract decent wages & so naturally the best talent will want to play for them.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
We’re without a doubt more exposed because of the fact we’re heavily reliant on gate income. Obviously fans fund the club through other means too (BTB etc) but unlike a club with a single owner who can pump money in, getting people through the door on a matchday is hugely significant for us.
Hence why the talk of us being better off because we’re not at the whim of a single owner is wishful thinking.
We’re at the whim of a few hundred people who don’t have money to burn, and will indeed have to prioritise themselves and families during this crisis.
We struggle financially at the best of times, so let’s not kid ourselves that it’s going to be anything other than really difficult in the next few months.
Hence why the talk of us being better off because we’re not at the whim of a single owner is wishful thinking.
We’re at the whim of a few hundred people who don’t have money to burn, and will indeed have to prioritise themselves and families during this crisis.
We struggle financially at the best of times, so let’s not kid ourselves that it’s going to be anything other than really difficult in the next few months.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
He didn't say any such thing.jjljks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:18 pmRishi Sunak says he will pay a grant to enable the club to cover 80% of wages where we are unable to operate due to Covid19 to avoid laying off workers. Deferring VAT until June which will help too. Will still be a struggle to keep the club together, but we can do it.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
He has said 80% coverage of salaries for staff who are furloughed. I think it's fair to say that our players are furloughed as they are not allowed to work - so would we expect to be covered?
Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Does it depending they’re on employment contracts or self employed contractor status?
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Our players are on the books surely, I'm sure they are not self employed. This 80% thing (if I've understood i correctly) could really be a lifeline for DFC -
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
I hope sotheoriginalfatcat wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:57 amOur players are on the books surely, I'm sure they are not self employed. This 80% thing (if I've understood i correctly) could really be a lifeline for DFC -
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Absolutely agree with this. Having read through this thread at length the outstanding comment appears to be Darlo Pete's view on the better sustainability of our model over that of single owner clubs. This seems to be on the basis that single owners will get frightened off by an enforced layoff and will leave their vanity projects in the lurch. I know that we suffered at the hands of a single owner doing this to us but that is not the norm by any means. Gramps makes the point that we are far more reliant on a week to week income that has now dried up than the single owner model. How often have people wondered at clubs like Brackley being able to put out a competitive side on gates in the 300 to 400 average. If these owners are prepared to underwrite these clubs to that extent it is less of a strain for them to take on the extra cost of a lack of a few hundred than it is for us to cough up for the loss of income based on an average of one and a half thousand. And whilst it is possible for a single owner to back out it is far more likely that, under the financial strains that enforced isolation and reduced work will bring to so many households, that the collective backing of a fan owned club will be unable to cover the club's losses as they struggle to cover their own personal shortfall in income. Whilst we have been absolutely magnificent to date in covering the club's need for funds under normal circumstances, this abnormal situation will certainly find some of the most dedicated backers unable find the funds to keep us going. And as we are a collective and dependent on all the contributions all of the time, if some are unable to continue that will immediately have a detrimental effect on the ability of the club to cover its present level of income. We are so used to seeing 500 plus dedicated backers digging deep to help keep things going that it is easy to believe they will always be able to do so. But what if 200 or 300 of these just can't hack it whilst under the lockdown? This is a far more likely situation than a moneybags owner getting anxious over having to stretch his half million input to another 20,000, but would have a disastrous effect on our ability to cover costs.Darlogramps wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:27 pmWe’re without a doubt more exposed because of the fact we’re heavily reliant on gate income. Obviously fans fund the club through other means too (BTB etc) but unlike a club with a single owner who can pump money in, getting people through the door on a matchday is hugely significant for us.
Hence why the talk of us being better off because we’re not at the whim of a single owner is wishful thinking.
We’re at the whim of a few hundred people who don’t have money to burn, and will indeed have to prioritise themselves and families during this crisis.
We struggle financially at the best of times, so let’s not kid ourselves that it’s going to be anything other than really difficult in the next few months.
All in all I can't see any reason to believe that, without serious government and league help, that we will be able to come through this unharmed and certainly not in a better state than single owner clubs. As Gramps says, to think otherwise is just wishful thinking.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
I get exactly what you’re saying en passant. That’s why it’s important for those fortunate amongst us that haven’t been adversely affected by the economic effects of social distancing to do what we can. Strangely, some will find they have more cash in their pockets by not being able to spend on travel, pubs, clubs, restaurants, football etc but are in secure employment
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Yes you are right that some may be in that fortunate position for the present, and may have the additional money to spend due to the closure of other places to spend their cash. But it is also clear that the current attempts to beat the virus may yet close other business and cause more financial hardship to even those who currently might feel themselves to be secure. I am not sure that many of us can be so certain of where this thing is going to take us that we will be able to confidently put the club's interests before our own and those of our families. Unlike Pete, I am not at all sure that a substantial number of our regular funders will remain unaffected by the current situation and that this will not have a detrimental effect on the club's ability to raise the level of funds we have seen in the recent past.
Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Let's hope that neither of the doomsday scenarios happen rather than arguing over a hypothetical situation
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
I don't think it's as bad as you think regarding gate income because more than half of it comes through season ticket holders who have of course paid for the whole season. Regarding total income, obviously gate income only forms part of our turnover, as we have sponsorship deals and BTB etc.Darlogramps wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:27 pmWe’re without a doubt more exposed because of the fact we’re heavily reliant on gate income.
So really on the day gate income is a part of, a part of, our income.
As the club says, worst case scenario if the season doesn't finish is 20 grand loss of income (of which we've raised 2k already), and if the season does continue at that point then we'd expect to bring that money in. If everyone was pay at the gate then the potential loss of income would be much greater.
Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Sponsorship could take a big hit if companies can't attord to renew or go bust.
Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Well you just have He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like thisOld Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Sorry just stating a fact. You must be Craig or one of his friends I assume.HarrytheQuaker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:02 pmWell you just have He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like thisOld Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Don’t you think that if he was such a great asset to the club he would still be employed by the club?HarrytheQuaker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:02 pmWell you just have He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like thisOld Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Bestie..Old Git wrote:Sorry just stating a fact. You must be Craig or one of his friends I assume.HarrytheQuaker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:02 pmWell you just have He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like thisOld Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
I take it you know what went on??Emdubya wrote:Don’t you think that if he was such a great asset to the club he would still be employed by the club?HarrytheQuaker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:02 pmWell you just have He was a great asset to the club and he will be missed at a time like thisOld Git wrote:Don’t wish to be unkind to Craig Morley but it may be fortunate for the club that we are not carrying his wage at the present time.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
It is still my view that this season will finish.
To me you can't have a season that doesn't conclude as there is too much riding on it for everyone, and you simply can not have any kind of Statty type formula which is fair.
Football at some point will recommence and when it does finishing this present season will be more important to what comes next.
Next season could be adapted in numerous ways before a ball is kicked so that everyone knows what is going on and so that it is fair for everyone.
Furthermore it seems possible that further lockdowns in the future may also occur. If this present season isn't finished then there could be a situation whereby next season could be paused....then what? Two consecutive seasons binned?
To me you can't have a season that doesn't conclude as there is too much riding on it for everyone, and you simply can not have any kind of Statty type formula which is fair.
Football at some point will recommence and when it does finishing this present season will be more important to what comes next.
Next season could be adapted in numerous ways before a ball is kicked so that everyone knows what is going on and so that it is fair for everyone.
Furthermore it seems possible that further lockdowns in the future may also occur. If this present season isn't finished then there could be a situation whereby next season could be paused....then what? Two consecutive seasons binned?
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Like I have said on another thread let's finish this season at the start of next season - and then split the league in two just for next season regionalising the two halves if possible which would cut costs. With a one off league cup competition maybe split into four groups of six to subsidize the missing league games. Scrap the play offs for next season only with the winner of each half league automatically promoted.
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Re: The moment we've all been waiting for...
Not going to happen.Mister e wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:14 pmLike I have said on another thread let's finish this season at the start of next season - and then split the league in two just for next season regionalising the two halves if possible which would cut costs. With a one off league cup competition maybe split into four groups of six to subsidize the missing league games. Scrap the play offs for next season only with the winner of each half league automatically promoted.
And also you do realise our league is already regionalised? (apparently)
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly