Champs

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swadquaker
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Champs

Post by swadquaker » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:29 pm

Who do we think will be top at the end. Form team Spenny, Chorley stumbling, Stockport there. The bookies have them pretty close now.

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Re: Champs

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:39 pm

Spenny or Stockport to win the league.

If Spenny don't go up with the form they are on then they will have missed a big opportunity.

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Re: Champs

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:56 pm

Really hope Stockport go up with their support and I think they will do it.Spenny to be pipped by Telford in the playoffs

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Re: Champs

Post by Darlo_Pete » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:06 am

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:Really hope Stockport go up with their support and I think they will do it.Spenny to be pipped by Telford in the playoffs

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Agree, there a team definitely not in the right league and it would be good for Spennymoor to spend another season playing us!!

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Re: Champs

Post by Gow9900 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:41 am

Stockport should be nowhere near this league. When I was younger I remember them playing West Ham/Middlesbrough in League Cup Quarter Finals/Semi finals and beating Manchester City in the second tier.

I'm insanely green with envy at the crowds that they still pull even though they've been in this league for years. Only stuff we can dream of nowadays, even though ten years when we were playing in a proper ground and were pushing for promotion from League 2 we had similar sorts of crowds.

Stockport are still in the FA Trophy so that might impact on them if they progress, Chorley are stumbling massively at the moment and Spenny look unstoppable. Can't see past Spenny winning it personally. Saying that Brackley have hit form and look like they will be amongst it as well.
Last edited by Gow9900 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

H1987
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Re: Champs

Post by H1987 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:45 am

Stockport for me, but Spen have every chance in the playoffs. I weirdly fancy us to take a point from Chorley.

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Re: Champs

Post by spen666 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:57 am

H1987 wrote:Stockport for me, but Spen have every chance in the playoffs. I weirdly fancy us to take a point from Chorley.

Football Web pages in the results they use to predict the end of season table had Darlington drawing with Chorley as well

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Re: Champs

Post by tezza » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:31 am

Spennymoor: Should they gain promotion, then the question of sustainability can be answered once and for all. Could just break them.

I recently met a Stockport fan in Malta, he seemed to think despite all their resources promotion might be a step to far right now.

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Re: Champs

Post by H1987 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:29 am

I'm not so convinced the lower reaches of the national are much worse than the top of the North, in particular. The South is a weaker league, which you can sort of see from how quickly Torquay look like they're going to march through it, while teams relegated to the North often struggle. It's also quite telling that all of the sides at the bottom of the national league are in the South.

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Re: Champs

Post by AndyPark » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:46 am

What will happen next season for relegated teams from the National League? Seems likely that x4 southern teams will come down.

Will that mean the likes of Oxford City and maybe Gloucester/Bath City are placed in the 'North'.

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Re: Champs

Post by Darlogramps » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:54 am

H1987 wrote:It's also quite telling that all of the sides at the bottom of the national league are in the South.
Yet last season, three out of the four who came down were Northern sides. So I'm not sure your logic stacks up here. There are more factors at play.

I think it's more indicative of the fact there are more teams in the National League Premier from southern England than northern England. Five northern sides exited the division last season (Macclesfield, Tranmere, Southport, Guiseley and Chester) and were replaced by just three (Chesterfield, Salford and Harrogate), that's a net loss of two northern sides.

There are 10 "Northern" sides and 14 "Southern" sides (if we include the Midlands as the North, as the pyramid system does now). So it's perhaps unsurprising we're seeing more sides involved at the bottom from the south.

I'd argue you are correct the NLN is stronger than the NLS - look at the number of sides who've won the FA Trophy, for example. But I don't necessarily agree the number of National League relegation battlers is an indicator of that.
AndyPark wrote:What will happen next season for relegated teams from the National League? Seems likely that x4 southern teams will come down.

Will that mean the likes of Oxford City and maybe Gloucester/Bath City are placed in the 'North'.
Barring a big turnaround in the National League, it's almost certain at least one side will be moved across.

And if you look at Step 3 promotion - only one promotion place will definitely come the proper North (the Midlands is geographically not the North). Promotion at that level is NPL champions, Central League champions, and the winner of a play-off between the two play-off champions of those divisions.

It could be the case the five new sides in the division next season are made up of two National League South sides, two Midlands sides and just one properly Northern side.
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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Champs

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:58 am

I reckon Spennymoor will bottle it!!
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spen666
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Re: Champs

Post by spen666 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:54 pm

AndyPark wrote:What will happen next season for relegated teams from the National League? Seems likely that x4 southern teams will come down.

Will that mean the likes of Oxford City and maybe Gloucester/Bath City are placed in the 'North'.
Braintree are expecting to be in the North next season if you ask officials at their club

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Re: Champs

Post by H1987 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:06 pm

spen666 wrote:
AndyPark wrote:What will happen next season for relegated teams from the National League? Seems likely that x4 southern teams will come down.

Will that mean the likes of Oxford City and maybe Gloucester/Bath City are placed in the 'North'.
Braintree are expecting to be in the North next season if you ask officials at their club
Surely not... Braintree is next to London Stansted!? It's a London commuter town in Essex! Surely you'd move someone like Gloucester instead... It'll be a problem though, because all of the National sides near the bottom are (very) Southern, and they can't all go in one league... To be honest, it's not a bad trip for us, but for Braintree the costs over a season would be huge. Especially to the North West.

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Re: Champs

Post by AndyPark » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:07 pm

Did some mileage calculations on teams that could possibly come down and be moved to North.

Darlington to Oxford City = 222 miles each way, 444 mile round trip.
Darlington to St Albans = 227 miles each way, 454 mile round trip.
Darlington to Gloucester = 230 miles each way, 460 mile round trip.
Darlington to Braintree = 236 miles each way, 472 mile round trip.
Darlington to Billericay = 253 miles each way, 506 mile round trip.
Darlington to Bath City = 273 miles each way, 546 mile round trip.

Bearing in mind, we already have the likes of Leamington, Brackley and Hereford to travel to.
Darlington to Leamington = 181 miles each way, 362 mile round trip.
Darlington to Brackley = 201 miles each way, 402 mile round trip.
Darlington to Hereford = 231 miles each way, 462 mile round trip.

If we manage to stay up, we're gonna have some long away days next season.

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Re: Champs

Post by spen666 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:22 pm

H1987 wrote:
spen666 wrote:
AndyPark wrote:What will happen next season for relegated teams from the National League? Seems likely that x4 southern teams will come down.

Will that mean the likes of Oxford City and maybe Gloucester/Bath City are placed in the 'North'.
Braintree are expecting to be in the North next season if you ask officials at their club
Surely not... Braintree is next to London Stansted!? It's a London commuter town in Essex! Surely you'd move someone like Gloucester instead... It'll be a problem though, because all of the National sides near the bottom are (very) Southern, and they can't all go in one league... To be honest, it's not a bad trip for us, but for Braintree the costs over a season would be huge. Especially to the North West.

I've not done the calculations, but with NL being more southern based, its entirely possible that Braintree could have more travelling in the regionalised NLN than they did in NL itself

Bishop Stortford played in NLN for 2 or 3 seasons

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Re: Champs

Post by Alfie » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:45 pm

Gloucester were in the NLN a few seasons ago, didn't we play them in our first season in NLN?

This problem is only going to get worse now we have 4 leagues feeding into the NLN/NLS.

Evostik prem - northern (+ what some would consider north midlands)
Southern Central - East Anglia and midlands
Southern - proper south
Isthmian - mainly London area.

Only one of these could be considered North by most definitions. The 4 league winners move up, plus two more from the four leagues by some play offs. Unless it is structured so that the Evostik prem and the Southern Central play off toproduce a second team then we could get teams from Isthmian and Southern via play offs - meaning we could have one 'northern' and five 'southern' to fit into the NLN/NLS structure. After a few seasons of this then Braintree in the NLN may not be as daft as it sounds.

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Re: Champs

Post by shildonlad » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:10 pm

Alfie wrote:Gloucester were in the NLN a few seasons ago, didn't we play them in our first season in NLN?

This problem is only going to get worse now we have 4 leagues feeding into the NLN/NLS.

Evostik prem - northern (+ what some would consider north midlands)
Southern Central - East Anglia and midlands
Southern - proper south
Isthmian - mainly London area.

Only one of these could be considered North by most definitions. The 4 league winners move up, plus two more from the four leagues by some play offs. Unless it is structured so that the Evostik prem and the Southern Central play off toproduce a second team then we could get teams from Isthmian and Southern via play offs - meaning we could have one 'northern' and five 'southern' to fit into the NLN/NLS structure. After a few seasons of this then Braintree in the NLN may not be as daft as it sounds.
Intresting points and shows what a farce this restructuring has been. Why not make it 4 down form nln and same from nls, then the play offs would be as they have been for years. As you say if they aint structured so its winners of evostick north v southern central things could be more southern biased than what they are already. Not sure the main guys behind this restructuring but the southern central seem to have good travel distances in comparision to evsotick premier which covers pretty much the same area as before
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Champs

Post by polam » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:20 pm

[quote="Alfie"]Gloucester were in the NLN a few seasons ago, didn't we play them in our first season in NLN?

Yes - we beat them home and away. Now they play in Evesham but they're hoping to move back to the City in 2019/20 (new ground Meadow Park).

When they were moved from NLN to NLS they were given a guarantee not to be moved back to the North for 3(?) seasons. Although I guess they would be happy to have derbies with Hereford and Kiddy.

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Re: Champs

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:28 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Alfie wrote:Gloucester were in the NLN a few seasons ago, didn't we play them in our first season in NLN?

This problem is only going to get worse now we have 4 leagues feeding into the NLN/NLS.

Evostik prem - northern (+ what some would consider north midlands)
Southern Central - East Anglia and midlands
Southern - proper south
Isthmian - mainly London area.

Only one of these could be considered North by most definitions. The 4 league winners move up, plus two more from the four leagues by some play offs. Unless it is structured so that the Evostik prem and the Southern Central play off toproduce a second team then we could get teams from Isthmian and Southern via play offs - meaning we could have one 'northern' and five 'southern' to fit into the NLN/NLS structure. After a few seasons of this then Braintree in the NLN may not be as daft as it sounds.
Intresting points and shows what a farce this restructuring has been. Why not make it 4 down form nln and same from nls, then the play offs would be as they have been for years. As you say if they aint structured so its winners of evostick north v southern central things could be more southern biased than what they are already. Not sure the main guys behind this restructuring but the southern central seem to have good travel distances in comparision to evsotick premier which covers pretty much the same area as before
From my understanding the clubs in NLN wouldn't vote for 4 down when the leagues were increased at Step 3, basically why increase your chances to drop out.

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Re: Champs

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:35 pm

Not saying the league structure is perfect but why do people think because the word North is in the league that it should just be Northern teams?

If you look at the way the country is in terms of populations and geography it's no surprise that North division goes as far as Brackley. Looking at NLS it can't be great being Truro/Torquay etc. with the travelling in fact Woking are away to Truro tonight and its 480 miles round trip with each way over 4hrs.

The Nat North doesn't have it that much worse than Nat South, just bad for teams that are at the most furthest tips North/South/East/West.

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Re: Champs

Post by shildonlad » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:49 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
shildonlad wrote:
Alfie wrote:Gloucester were in the NLN a few seasons ago, didn't we play them in our first season in NLN?

This problem is only going to get worse now we have 4 leagues feeding into the NLN/NLS.

Evostik prem - northern (+ what some would consider north midlands)
Southern Central - East Anglia and midlands
Southern - proper south
Isthmian - mainly London area.

Only one of these could be considered North by most definitions. The 4 league winners move up, plus two more from the four leagues by some play offs. Unless it is structured so that the Evostik prem and the Southern Central play off toproduce a second team then we could get teams from Isthmian and Southern via play offs - meaning we could have one 'northern' and five 'southern' to fit into the NLN/NLS structure. After a few seasons of this then Braintree in the NLN may not be as daft as it sounds.
Intresting points and shows what a farce this restructuring has been. Why not make it 4 down form nln and same from nls, then the play offs would be as they have been for years. As you say if they aint structured so its winners of evostick north v southern central things could be more southern biased than what they are already. Not sure the main guys behind this restructuring but the southern central seem to have good travel distances in comparision to evsotick premier which covers pretty much the same area as before
From my understanding the clubs in NLN wouldn't vote for 4 down when the leagues were increased at Step 3, basically why increase your chances to drop out.
Yeah can see why they would not vote but can fa not over rule them, would stop the bottleneck from step 3 and help stop the southern bias
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: Champs

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:46 am

shildonlad wrote:
Alfie wrote:Gloucester were in the NLN a few seasons ago, didn't we play them in our first season in NLN?

This problem is only going to get worse now we have 4 leagues feeding into the NLN/NLS.

Evostik prem - northern (+ what some would consider north midlands)
Southern Central - East Anglia and midlands
Southern - proper south
Isthmian - mainly London area.

Only one of these could be considered North by most definitions. The 4 league winners move up, plus two more from the four leagues by some play offs. Unless it is structured so that the Evostik prem and the Southern Central play off toproduce a second team then we could get teams from Isthmian and Southern via play offs - meaning we could have one 'northern' and five 'southern' to fit into the NLN/NLS structure. After a few seasons of this then Braintree in the NLN may not be as daft as it sounds.
Intresting points and shows what a farce this restructuring has been. Why not make it 4 down form nln and same from nls, then the play offs would be as they have been for years. As you say if they aint structured so its winners of evostick north v southern central things could be more southern biased than what they are already.
My understanding is that is what will happen - NPL play-off winners will play Central League play-off winners in an all-out decider for the last NLN spot.

Ultimately I think we will eventually see four teams come down from the NLN - otherwise it will be virtually impossible to get out of Step 3. The quid pro quo may be the NLN gets expanded to 24 teams to give teams more of a chance of avoiding the drop. 4/22 sides going down is not far off 20% of teams being relegated, which would be a big chunk.
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Re: Champs

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:52 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:Not saying the league structure is perfect but why do people think because the word North is in the league that it should just be Northern teams?

If you look at the way the country is in terms of populations and geography it's no surprise that North division goes as far as Brackley. Looking at NLS it can't be great being Truro/Torquay etc. with the travelling in fact Woking are away to Truro tonight and its 480 miles round trip with each way over 4hrs.

The Nat North doesn't have it that much worse than Nat South, just bad for teams that are at the most furthest tips North/South/East/West.
The difference is with the NLN the travelling is North to South, with teams who are geographically in the North going well outside of that area, to the southern areas of the Midlands (e.g. Brackley), the South West (e.g. Gloucester and Worcester) or even near London (e.g. Bishops Stortford).

With the NLS, people would class Truro as being in the South geographically, even though they will have just as long trips to say Dartford for example.

So you're completely right, it isn't much better for National League South sides. But I think the reason is people associate it with being geographically outside the area the league is perceived as covering.
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Re: Champs

Post by Spyman » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:41 am

From a selfish point of view I'd love Oxford City and Braintree in our division next season!

I may have missed something, but have the Ground Improvement Fairies visited Spennymoor yet, or are they scheduled to do so? I thought their ground wasn't currently fit for promotion?
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Re: Champs

Post by divas » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:51 am

Spyman wrote:I may have missed something, but have the Ground Improvement Fairies visited Spennymoor yet, or are they scheduled to do so? I thought their ground wasn't currently fit for promotion?
That was remedied last season, they chucked a load of seats in one of the covered standing areas.

They then missed out on the playoffs by finishing 8th.

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Re: Champs

Post by H1987 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:08 pm

Yes, i think it's fit for the playoffs - but if they are promoted, they need to have increased capacity to 4,000 by March 31st, and have plans to show how this can be increased to 5,000.

Relatively easy for us to get BM up to 4,000 at least. I suspect it'll be more of a challenge for Spen - and also demonstrating how they could ever reach 5,000.

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Re: Champs

Post by spen666 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:52 pm

H1987 wrote:Yes, i think it's fit for the playoffs - but if they are promoted, they need to have increased capacity to 4,000 by March 31st, and have plans to show how this can be increased to 5,000.

Relatively easy for us to get BM up to 4,000 at least. I suspect it'll be more of a challenge for Spen - and also demonstrating how they could ever reach 5,000.
Can you explain that? Spennymoor can build on all 4 sides of the ground...there is no pipeline restricting their ground, nor is there a problem with an existing clubhouse that would restrict development unless the Rugby club consents..

So why will it be harder for them than it would be at BM?


Not saying it is easy for either club, just curious why you think its harder at Spennymoor

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Re: Champs

Post by Darlo2807 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:59 pm

H1987 wrote:Yes, i think it's fit for the playoffs - but if they are promoted, they need to have increased capacity to 4,000 by March 31st, and have plans to show how this can be increased to 5,000.

Relatively easy for us to get BM up to 4,000 at least. I suspect it'll be more of a challenge for Spen - and also demonstrating how they could ever reach 5,000.
If you look at the layout of the ground on Google Maps it looks pretty much impossible unless they're willing to spend a load of money to buy peoples homes around the ground. Easier said than done, could cost them millions.

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Re: Champs

Post by Emdubya » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:00 pm

H1987 wrote:Yes, i think it's fit for the playoffs - but if they are promoted, they need to have increased capacity to 4,000 by March 31st, and have plans to show how this can be increased to 5,000.

Relatively easy for us to get BM up to 4,000 at least. I suspect it'll be more of a challenge for Spen - and also demonstrating how they could ever reach 5,000.
Really can’t see how Spenny could increase capacity to 5k .Houses on 3 sides and a road on the other means they can’t expand outward.Unless of course uncle Brads pockets have gone down another couple of levels and are now bottomless and he wants to start buying property up.
Haven’t looked at their remaining fixtures but would be no surprise at all if they finish top given the form they are in.

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