Feethams Facts Sad

ted_do · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:27 am

Jazz Maverick wrote:

You're right ted.

Us gutless fans should take a leaf out of your book and spend god knows how long sat behind a keyboard moaning like fuck but not actually offering anything up.

We'd be grand then.

Yes The internet made up name Ted_do is doing nothing but keeping the issue highlighted, the real life Darlington residents are doing things and I am doing my bit to get my home town team playing back in the town I live in. :thumbup:

Quakerz · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:35 am

liddle_4_ever wrote:

If it’s going to take 2 years to get into blackwell I can certainly wait an extra 3 years for Feethams.

You can, but don't you live in Scotland so it hardly affects you anyway?

Regular match going fans and the club CAN'T wait 5 years.

Bottom line, there must be some advantage of BM for us over other sites. As a pure guess I'd say that is because the council are happy for us to be there, which cuts a lot of red tape.

Let's not forget that we can't just pitch up on any old site and start building a ground, even if we have the money - the council need to be onside. Without the council onside, we are nothing.

gabbas · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:54 am

Thinking about the car park issue I was at a St Terresa's fun day a couple of years back and they opened the grass area between the car park and main road as an overflow, probably accommodated another 100+ cars. This could be easily and probably cheaply Tarmaced to create more parking.

It's in the bag!

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:43 am

I'm only recently exiled and my opinion would be the same if I was back home. Short term pain for long term gain.

Fatty eats roadkill · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:11 am

Sorry l4e but you're not entitled to an opinion.

See your missive at charlie for the reason!

You don't live here so you cannot comment, much like as you told charlie she's only followed us for 6 months, even after she's put up with her husband doing her head in for 30+ years or whatever it is.

Northern soul KTF · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:05 pm

In view of your figure S&S only want £2m for the Arena basically money they lent returned. So on the equation council take 75% of any profit it equates to nil. Best solution is Darlo council buy and develop Arena. Build hotel. This can be used to locate visiting Premier League Clubs to region with use of Arena for training facilities. DFC have subsidesed home. Bit of inward investment and it becomes a goldmine. Just needs forward thinking and funding to achieve.

AIDO · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:14 pm

... both things you mention there are ... ohh so sadly lacking by Darlo Council unfortunately.

Quakerz · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:21 pm

Northern soul KTF wrote:

In view of your figure S&S only want £2m for the Arena basically money they lent returned. So on the equation council take 75% of any profit it equates to nil. Best solution is Darlo council buy and develop Arena. Build hotel. This can be used to locate visiting Premier League Clubs to region with use of Arena for training facilities. DFC have subsidesed home. Bit of inward investment and it becomes a goldmine. Just needs forward thinking and funding to achieve.

Can you show us the calculations of how this hotel will be a goldmine? Thanks.

Northern soul KTF · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:54 pm

We have 3 big Clubs in the region. Plus Hartlepool. Preparation and facilities. Goldmine is income. Successful Hotels have the best facilities. That's why all previous owners wanted one on site. Not hard to understand. Money to be made! I'd use my millions from Euro lottery to develop it should I be fortunate to win it. Let Darlo play for peanuts too. I'll be giving it another try on Friday

divas · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:56 pm

Northern soul KTF wrote:

In view of your figure S&S only want £2m for the Arena basically money they lent returned. So on the equation council take 75% of any profit it equates to nil. Best solution is Darlo council buy and develop Arena. Build hotel. This can be used to locate visiting Premier League Clubs to region with use of Arena for training facilities. DFC have subsidesed home. Bit of inward investment and it becomes a goldmine. Just needs forward thinking and funding to achieve.

More often than not the hotels are leased to a hotel company rather than privately run.

The development being built on the old Torringtons site would have been perfect at the Arena....

gabbas · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:13 pm

So how much would it cost to build a hotel to compete with say Rockciffle or even Redworth Hall, surrounded by country side and golf courses.
Not to mention only a handful of teams stay overnight.

divas · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:28 pm

gabbas wrote:

So how much would it cost to build a hotel to compete with say Rockciffle or even Redworth Hall, surrounded by country side and golf courses.
Not to mention only a handful of teams stay overnight.

It wouldn't be that standard, a travelodge like the one on the Torrington's site would have done.

Like i say in these type of set-ups a developer either leases or purchases the land on which the development stands and then either leases to the eventual tennants.

gabbas · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:41 pm

divas wrote:

gabbas wrote:

So how much would it cost to build a hotel to compete with say Rockciffle or even Redworth Hall, surrounded by country side and golf courses.
Not to mention only a handful of teams stay overnight.

It wouldn't be that standard, a travelodge like the one on the Torrington's site would have done.

Like i say in these type of set-ups a developer either leases or purchases the land on which the development stands and then either leases to the eventual tennants.

I know , it was a respone to attracting premier league teams, how many of them would stay at a travel lodge?

divas · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:51 pm

gabbas wrote:

divas wrote:

gabbas wrote:

So how much would it cost to build a hotel to compete with say Rockciffle or even Redworth Hall, surrounded by country side and golf courses.
Not to mention only a handful of teams stay overnight.

It wouldn't be that standard, a travelodge like the one on the Torrington's site would have done.

Like i say in these type of set-ups a developer either leases or purchases the land on which the development stands and then either leases to the eventual tennants.

I know , it was a respone to attracting premier league teams, how many of them would stay at a travel lodge?

Ah okay, i get ya, and none.

Football related guests would be at a minimum anyway, it would probably need to be a bit more upmarket i guess but what always let the Arena down was it didn't have a hotel for conference guests.

Quakerz · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:27 pm

Northern soul KTF wrote:

We have 3 big Clubs in the region. Plus Hartlepool. Preparation and facilities. Goldmine is income. Successful Hotels have the best facilities. That's why all previous owners wanted one on site. Not hard to understand. Money to be made! I'd use my millions from Euro lottery to develop it should I be fortunate to win it. Let Darlo play for peanuts too. I'll be giving it another try on Friday

Facts and figures please.

It's easy to call something a goldmine by chucking a few club names up in the air, without having to say how much these clubs will spend, or even if they will spend at all - without going into build costs, maintenenace/staffing costs etc etc.

We can all do that...

I know, why doesn't the council build a ski slope there, goldmine.

Easy as that.

theoriginalfatcat · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:08 pm

Northern soul KTF, I disagree with your figures.

What S and S are owed, and what S and S value their property at is irrelevant. They could have lent 16 million, they could value it at 17 million, it matters not. On top of this is another point. They are entitled to value the Arena in any way they want but that doesn't mean that it carries that value - - I mean there's not a queue to buy it, is there.

With regards to the covenant - it's the price at which the land was originally bought for by Reynolds which matters surely :?:

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:16 pm

Jazz Maverick wrote:

What an absolute botter you are liddle_4_ever.

You're making nonsense, dismissive arguments about forgoing the only current realistic ground we could return to in Darlington in favour of some pie in the sky bullshit about fighting for feethams and returning there/halting development - despite ALL information pointing to the fact that A) this most likely would never happen, B) would take many years and much money to achieve even if it was remotely likely (which it's not) and C) we have more pressing concerns than a legal fight which might do nothing other than stitch up the cricket mob. I've seen nothing in your reasoning or arguments that is based on anything other than guesswork or outright make believe (car parking spaces, less busses, further from town than arena, no people living nearby).

I am not forgoing the only realistic option. We are looking for a ground that will suit us in the extreme long term (100 years) and Blackwell offers nothing other than easy planning and given the problems with it, it is a poor location for us. It’s a bit like borrowing money through a payday loan, helps in the short term but could fuck you in the long term.

Quote:

You then have the nerve to tell someone else they can't have an informed opinion because they haven't supported the club long enough. Brilliant community ethos there sunshine.

It wasn’t that you can’t have an informed opinion due to lack of time served it’s that she doesn’t have an informed opinion due to lack of experience.

Quote:

You're either a bit dense or a complete arsehole. I'm not sure which one yet.

I can assure you I am far from dense, which, given the start to your post above and general opinion on this board is rather ironic coming from you.

Quote:

I've seen nothing in your reasoning or arguments that is based on anything other than guesswork or outright make believe (car parking spaces, less busses, further from town than arena, no people living nearby).

The only guess work I have posted was that the bus service could be less frequent than the bus to the arena and I highlighted that. The car parking that is at Blackwell is a red herring and will offer nothing shall the club move there.

Compare the amount of people who live within ½ a mile walk of the arena and ½ a mile of Blackwell, using google maps I count less than 15 houses that live within ½ a mile of Blackwell where as the houses near the arena are packed in much more closely, are more likely to be full or overcrowded, and the sheer number of houses within ½ a mile is many times more (1/2 a mile takes you to the copper beech).

Please highlight my guesswork and make believe.

Fatty eats roadkill wrote:

Sorry l4e but you're not entitled to an opinion.

See your missive at charlie for the reason!

You don't live here so you cannot comment, much like as you told charlie she's only followed us for 6 months, even after she's put up with her husband doing her head in for 30+ years or whatever it is.

I’ve reread my posts to Charlie and don’t see anything I have said to her that could be applied to me. Please explain why I am not entitled to an opinion? I said she is more than welcome to an opinion but to call it informed is stretching reality.

We all know a fans relationship with their club is extremely complicated and difficult to explain to people who haven’t been there and felt it. And as someone in a lifelong relationship with the club I am much more likely to have an informed opinion than someone who has had a 6 month fling.

Fatty eats roadkill · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:12 pm

Just because you do something for x amount of years doesn't make what you think or do right.

Sometimes a newcomers perspective from the outside blasts all previous preconceptions away.

Happens all the time in real life.

Just don't shoot those who aren't "time served"!

I've been following us for 23 years since I moved up from Doncaster! Does that make my opinion more valid than some young un only been watching a few years?

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:54 pm

Yes a new perspective can help you to consider a different option but regularly misses the spot as they won’t have the required knowledge to make an informed suggestion. Time served (or experience as it is also known) does count for a lot in every decision making process, that’s why jobs ask for experience, why experienced people get paid more and why car insurance is more expensive for the young.

I didn’t shoot her for lacking experience, I pointed out that she is not informed, and what’s the reason for that? Mentally incapable? No. No attempt at learning? No. Just pure lack of experience, something which she can’t change. I would rather be dismissed for lack of experience than lack of ability.

I take exception to someone saying they can make an informed opinion on our situation, which must be the most complicated in British football, in only 6 months. If she didn’t claim to be informed I wouldn’t have had anything else to say.

As you, me, and many others have experienced a failed ground move our opinions are likely to be more valid than a young un that has followed for only a few years and knows nothing other than the arena.

charlie · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:07 pm

She has had a rather large learning curve in the last 6 months, and I do not claim I know everything however I will make informed decisions and choices from what I do know
What I do know is that 1883 need reinvestment as quick as possible to enable us (as in us the supporters) to move things forward. Feethams is a different agenda altogether and as I`ve previously stated my fear is that it distracts from the job in hand today

Fatty eats roadkill · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:11 pm

So, without someone winning the euro lottery the only option we have is Blackwell!

Anyone can see that, so why dismiss her? I know it's not ideal but when you have nothing you make the best of a bad job of what you're given.

Experience tells you that!

I think you've been a bit harsh and dismissive there.

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:15 pm

You can make a decision formed from the knowledge and experience you have gained so far but, at this moment in time, you are unable to make an informed decision.

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:19 pm

Fatty eats roadkill wrote:

So, without someone winning the euro lottery the only option we have is Blackwell!

I disagree that it is the only option. It’s just the easy option that some people have settled for.

If all other potential grounds are looked into and deemed impractical, with reasons given, I will grin and bear Blackwell.

charlie · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:21 pm

Oh you know what I`m done, im not trying to have a conversation with someone who has such a clouded view point and opinion. You know nothing about me so you cannot make an informed opinion on me, im out

Fatty eats roadkill · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:21 pm

So what you're saying l4e is that unless you've followed darlo for say 20 years+ your views and opinions do not enable you to make an informed view.

What a strange little world!

Fatty eats roadkill · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:22 pm

Arena too expensive, feethams sold, Eastbourne not capable, don't own RA.

Where else in darlo then?

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:32 pm

charlie wrote:

Oh you know what I`m done, im not trying to have a conversation with someone who has such a clouded view point and opinion. You know nothing about me so you cannot make an informed opinion on me, im out

The only thing I need to know with regards to the potential for you to make an informed opinion is that you have only supported for 6 month.

Fatty eats roadkill wrote:

So what you're saying l4e is that unless you've followed darlo for say 20 years+ your views and opinions do not enable you to make an informed view.

What a strange little world!

No, nothing I have said has indicated anything like that, but we are talking years not months.

As for strange little world, my horizon is vast.

Fatty eats roadkill wrote:

Arena too expensive, feethams sold, Eastbourne not capable, don't own RA.

Where else in darlo then?

Arena = cheaper than building a new ground
Feethams can be argued that it can’t be sold. See my previous posts.
Eastbourne, I can’t see why it’s not capable.
RA, I agree is too small without major reconfiguration.

Jazz Maverick · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:02 pm

I dont know where to begin with this crank.

Jazz Maverick · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:15 pm

liddle_4_ever wrote:

I am not forgoing the only realistic option. We are looking for a ground that will suit us in the extreme long term (100 years) and Blackwell offers nothing other than easy planning and given the problems with it, it is a poor location for us. It’s a bit like borrowing money through a payday loan, helps in the short term but could fuck you in the long term.

Except that without a near immediate move back to Darlington there will be no DFC for much longer. How long do you think we will maintain support by playing in Bishop whilst we fanny around with Feethams, or getting planning permission for an expensive town centre peace of land, or building in the middle of a highly populated residential area like Eastbourne? Its the best of a bad bunch of options.

Quote:

It wasn’t that you can’t have an informed opinion due to lack of time served it’s that she doesn’t have an informed opinion due to lack of experience.

You claim you're not dense or an arsehole, yet you repeatedly come up with this arrogant, nonsensical s***.

Quote:

I can assure you I am far from dense, which, given the start to your post above and general opinion on this board is rather ironic coming from you.

See above you dense clown/arsehole (delete as appropriate)

Quote:

I've seen nothing in your reasoning or arguments that is based on anything other than guesswork or outright make believe (car parking spaces, less busses, further from town than arena, no people living nearby).

Quote:

The only guess work I have posted was that the bus service could be less frequent than the bus to the arena and I highlighted that. The car parking that is at Blackwell is a red herring and will offer nothing shall the club move there.

Compare the amount of people who live within ½ a mile walk of the arena and ½ a mile of Blackwell, using google maps I count less than 15 houses that live within ½ a mile of Blackwell where as the houses near the arena are packed in much more closely, are more likely to be full or overcrowded, and the sheer number of houses within ½ a mile is many times more (1/2 a mile takes you to the copper beech).

Please highlight my guesswork and make believe.

That good enough for you? For a start you dont appear to know how long 1/2 a mile is. Secondly, theres more than 15 houses in that radius around Blackwell Meadows, thirdly show the source which says the houses near the Arena are more likely to be overcrowded or full, and fourth the distance is irrelevant unless you have some data to suggest out attendees are correlated by the proximity of their residence to the ground? Also the parking isnt a red herring, not when you're suggesting Eastbourne which is in the middle of a densely populated residential area.

Admit it - you havent got a clue have you?

Quote:

I’ve reread my posts to Charlie and don’t see anything I have said to her that could be applied to me. Please explain why I am not entitled to an opinion? I said she is more than welcome to an opinion but to call it informed is stretching reality.

We all know a fans relationship with their club is extremely complicated and difficult to explain to people who haven’t been there and felt it. And as someone in a lifelong relationship with the club I am much more likely to have an informed opinion than someone who has had a 6 month fling.

More proof of your utter crankishness/stupidity there.

Do you have any reason I shouldnt file you in the crank files and hound you forever more?

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:12 pm

Jazz Maverick wrote:

liddle_4_ever wrote:

I am not forgoing the only realistic option. We are looking for a ground that will suit us in the extreme long term (100 years) and Blackwell offers nothing other than easy planning and given the problems with it, it is a poor location for us. It’s a bit like borrowing money through a payday loan, helps in the short term but could fuck you in the long term.

Except that without a near immediate move back to Darlington there will be no DFC for much longer. How long do you think we will maintain support by playing in Bishop whilst we fanny around with Feethams, or getting planning permission for an expensive town centre peace of land, or building in the middle of a highly populated residential area like Eastbourne? Its the best of a bad bunch of options.

If the council can donate the land at Blackwell to us, they can donate other land in the town instead.

Quote:

It wasn’t that you can’t have an informed opinion due to lack of time served it’s that she doesn’t have an informed opinion due to lack of experience.

You claim you're not dense or an arsehole, yet you repeatedly come up with this arrogant, nonsensical s***.

Weather I am an arsehole or not is pure opinion, not something that can be changed by arguing, if anything it would sway opinion the other way, that is why I haven’t discussed it. My intelligence, on the other hand, is an undeniable matter of fact. Also nothing I posted to Charlie was arrogant and it all made sense.

Quote:

I can assure you I am far from dense, which, given the start to your post above and general opinion on this board is rather ironic coming from you.

See above you dense clown/arsehole (delete as appropriate)

You too. Also you have posted unfounded personal insults to me a few times now that makes you the dense arsehole.

Quote:

I've seen nothing in your reasoning or arguments that is based on anything other than guesswork or outright make believe (car parking spaces, less busses, further from town than arena, no people living nearby).

Quote:

The only guess work I have posted was that the bus service could be less frequent than the bus to the arena and I highlighted that. The car parking that is at Blackwell is a red herring and will offer nothing shall the club move there.

Compare the amount of people who live within ½ a mile walk of the arena and ½ a mile of Blackwell, using google maps I count less than 15 houses that live within ½ a mile of Blackwell where as the houses near the arena are packed in much more closely, are more likely to be full or overcrowded, and the sheer number of houses within ½ a mile is many times more (1/2 a mile takes you to the copper beech).

Please highlight my guesswork and make believe.

That good enough for you? For a start you dont appear to know how long 1/2 a mile is. Secondly, theres more than 15 houses in that radius around Blackwell Meadows, thirdly show the source which says the houses near the Arena are more likely to be overcrowded or full, and fourth the distance is irrelevant unless you have some data to suggest out attendees are correlated by the proximity of their residence to the ground? Also the parking isnt a red herring, not when you're suggesting Eastbourne which is in the middle of a densely populated residential area.

Admit it - you havent got a clue have you?

Ow you’re fucking pissing me off now. Do you have to be spoon fed everything?

Half a mile is taken using google maps definition of half a mile.
I never mentioned ½ a mile radius as people on the whole walk along paths not across fields/through rivers/through people’s houses and gardens, that why I said ½ mile walk. See link … https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Grange+Rd%2FA167&daddr=Blackwell+Meadows,+Grange+Road,+Darlington,+DL1+5NR+(Darlington+Rugby+Football+Club)&hl=en&ll=54.514605,-1.563277&spn=0.007523,0.01929&sll=54.514842,-1.561507&sspn=0.003762,0.009645&geocode=FZbbPwMdHCTo_w%3BFUfBPwMdXyHo_yHiiKmsLDs8DilZchVpYJl-SDHiiKmsLDs8Dg&t=h&dirflg=w&mra=ltm&z=16
Half a mile includes the 1st few houses on Lakeside and houses on Grange Road up to Penny Lane and that is it. How many fuck ups can you make in one sentence?

Less affluent people are much more likely to live in overcrowded houses, wealthy people are much more likely to have spare bedrooms. Affluent people are much more likely to live near Grange Road than Neasham Road.

If distance isn’t an issue why don’t we just stay at Bish? Or even take it further, why is there more than 1 stadium in the England because everyone will just travel whatever distance to watch the match.

A densely populated area is where the stadium should be situated, it makes it easy for a large number of people to attend the game by taking just a short walk to their local community club. A club at Blackwell isn’t in any community. More people walking to the game keeps the fans healthy (one of the CIC’s aim) and reduces the number of people who need to drive to the match. Also Eastbourne is an easy walk from the town centre so people can use public transport or park in the town centre (which will give the town centre trade a boost) then complete their journey on foot.

Quote:

I’ve reread my posts to Charlie and don’t see anything I have said to her that could be applied to me. Please explain why I am not entitled to an opinion? I said she is more than welcome to an opinion but to call it informed is stretching reality.

We all know a fans relationship with their club is extremely complicated and difficult to explain to people who haven’t been there and felt it. And as someone in a lifelong relationship with the club I am much more likely to have an informed opinion than someone who has had a 6 month fling.

More proof of your utter crankishness/stupidity there.

Do you have any reason I shouldnt file you in the crank files and hound you forever more?

So are you suggesting you could take a mate who has never been to a football match to one game and they would instantly be able to make informed decisions regarding our clubs future? Obviously not, so experience comes into it. At what point the person has enough experience to be classed as informed is open for discussion but for me it is a matter of years not months. Charlie hasn’t (as far as I am aware) experienced a preseason or a derby game or the buzz of the first game of the season or an FA cup game etc etc.

Feethams Facts Sad

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