The Most Important Question

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Do you agree or disagree with Raj's stance to withold player wages?

Agree
8
8%
Disagree
88
92%
 
Total votes: 96

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Hilly
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The Most Important Question

Post by Hilly » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:26 pm

Seen a lot of talk on the board lately about there still being some support for Raj's stance... Well lets put that to the test.

Who here agrees with Raj's stance to withold player wages?

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DL5
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by DL5 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:29 pm

disagree in principle but what if the money saved was the difference between the club surviving or dying?
.

Darlofan97
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:32 pm

DL5 wrote:disagree in principle but what if the money saved was the difference between the club surviving or dying?
Raj had already budgeted for this sort of money to come out his account every week, at the start of the season. It's a nasty trick to play to not pay the players now.

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Spyman
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Spyman » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:48 pm

Hilly wrote:Seen a lot of talk on the board lately about there still being some support for Raj's stance... Well lets put that to the test.

Who here agrees with Raj's stance to withold player wages?
It is not on, and I've backed Raj almost entirely up to this point.

He had to make a tough and unpopular decision in asking players to take cuts, but to force them to agree by not paying a penny is wrong.

It may be his money, but as has been said, he was willing to spend this money in August when players signed in good faith.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by AndyPark » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:52 pm

He allowed the deals to go through, now it's gotten tough. He wants out. His own fault.

AIDO
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by AIDO » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:00 pm

He is courting unpopularity for his own reasons. Come Saturday, he'll get his wish!

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Beano » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:39 pm

DL5 wrote:disagree in principle but what if the money saved was the difference between the club surviving or dying?
Err, not possible I'm afraid.

The Football League and Conference insist on all footballing creditors being paid 100% in full.

If we don't follow the rules, we will get the boot, just like others before us.

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DL5
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by DL5 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:50 pm

Beano wrote:
DL5 wrote:disagree in principle but what if the money saved was the difference between the club surviving or dying?
Err, not possible I'm afraid.

The Football League and Conference insist on all footballing creditors being paid 100% in full.

If we don't follow the rules, we will get the boot, just like others before us.
Oh Yeah, just playing devil's advocate there anyway, I can understand Raj renegotiating contracts, that's agreed by both parties but not paying contracted players is out of order.

I wonder if there is a legal dispute or some sort of clause in the non paid players contracts he's digging his heels in over. I take it he can't sack players for persistent poor performance like a "normal" employer could?
.

Quakerz
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Quakerz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:59 pm

No, basically he is losing money and to compound things I think he was very, very hurt by the defeats to Braintree, Barrow, Southport and others and then came Hinckley. This is all understandable. To have a player singing "pay me up Mr Chairman" can't have been easy and you can trace everything back to Hinckley.

It went to s***, we lost more potential money, he took his ball home.

Like spyman said the next decision to try and renegotiate lesser contracts was unpopular, yet understandable.

But to select certain individuals and not pay them at all, well how can you justify that? You can't.
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BishopQuaker
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by BishopQuaker » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:02 pm

Is it even legal to withold their wages?
I assume it must be but it's pretty harsh.

If it was performance related pay then that would be different but to withold their salaries entirely?
That isn't good.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Quakerz » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:11 pm

Why would you presume it is legal to withold contractually agreed wages? Because you are particularly dense?
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Mullet69 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:15 pm

It's legal alright, only if accompanied by insolvency/bankruptcy, whatever you want to call it.

Wages could be deferred to allow a temporary cashflow problem to be resolved, but we all know it's gone well beyond that now.
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by oldboyaughton » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:58 pm

Is it legal for the club to do this?
It is not legal for the club to do this as this is a clear breach of the employment contact that the players will have with the club. Football players are employees in much the same way as individuals working in any other industry and accordingly are subject to the same rights as any other employee in England and Wales under the Employment Rights Act 1996. One of the rights of an employee is to be paid.
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by quaker4life » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:00 pm

100 % disagree.

I don't know why the 2 who have agreed so far do so.

As far as I'm concerned Raj Singh was well within his rights to ask the players to renegotiate their contracts HOWEVER the players were equally within their rights to say no.

To delibrately not pay them and go back on the contract which both parties agreed to is wrong.

Singh himself would not stand for it, if a he signed a business deal with someone else only for them to want to renegotiate the agreement and should he refuse have the other party refuse to pay him he would move earth and heaven to get what he was due, so why should be able to do it to others?

If the club was having finanical difficulties it would make sense to ask them to take a pay cut until things were resolved and back date the outstanding ammount they were owed, they'll either say yes or no if the say no then it'd be "sorry we'll have to let you go" and try and negotiate compensation with the player on the remainder of their contract.

But instead it seems Singh has just simply refused to pay those who have turned down the 'revised' deals, if this is the case then that is out of order.

I don't blame Singh entirely but this whole situation has been handled poorly, our club is a shambles yet again. Another season has been thrown to the dogs, another false dawn and another kick in the bollocks for the fans.

Making outlandish demands to the council and trying to negotiate covenants on land which he doesn't even own seem to be the action of a man taking a last throw of the dice in a bid to save his failing business.

Mr Singh if you do read this board the hardcore of supporters who have remained loyal to you and the club in what was probably the most difficult period in it's history deserve better than this, this farce cannot continue with in the space of a week you went from saying the council could deliver a killer blow to maybe having some good news over christmas?

If the club is struggling financially once again and you can no longer support it yourself then fine the majority of us would not hold it against you if you decided to walk away. I'm sure I speak for most Darlo fans when I say I would be deeply saddened if the club went under but would be greatful to you for your efforts to make it work.

We're not asking for much, just clarity where do we stand?

That's my tirade over the for year, enjoy!
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Hilly
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Hilly » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:07 pm

It certainly would be good to hear from the 2 people who agree with Raj's stance.

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DL5
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by DL5 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:08 pm

I clicked disagree for the record.
.

Jazz Maverick
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Jazz Maverick » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:09 pm

Quaker4life there, writing a fucking mini essay to justify his stance when everyone else has done it perfectly eloquently in a few lines.

Personally, I completely disagree with what Raj has done now, and like Spyman I backed him almost completely up until he did this.

Mind you, if I was in his shoes and losing as much of my own cash as him id probably do the same. Doesn't make it right though.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by loan_star » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:16 pm

Hilly wrote:It certainly would be good to hear from the 2 people who agree with Raj's stance.
Mr and Mrs Singh? ;)

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by quaker4life » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:18 pm

Jazz Maverick wrote:Quaker4life there, writing a fucking mini essay to justify his stance when everyone else has done it perfectly eloquently in a few lines.

Personally, I completely disagree with what Raj has done now, and like Spyman I backed him almost completely up until he did this.

Mind you, if I was in his shoes and losing as much of my own cash as him id probably do the same. Doesn't make it right though.
Nobody said you had to read it little miss angry, just getting out in the open I thought it was better to do one post or would you rather I created a few different threads like goldensyrup has?
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Jazz Maverick » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:24 pm

quaker4life wrote:
Jazz Maverick wrote:Quaker4life there, writing a fucking mini essay to justify his stance when everyone else has done it perfectly eloquently in a few lines.

Personally, I completely disagree with what Raj has done now, and like Spyman I backed him almost completely up until he did this.

Mind you, if I was in his shoes and losing as much of my own cash as him id probably do the same. Doesn't make it right though.
Nobody said you had to read it little miss angry, just getting out in the open I thought it was better to do one post or would you rather I created a few different threads like goldensyrup has?
No, i just figured since you post the same over expanded, self indulgent s*** every time the club is in crisis you'd spare us doing it again.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by TFDM » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:26 pm

Don't agree with what he is doing. Fair enough he was hurt by the poor performances and a few other things but not paying people who didn't agree to new deals is just plain wrong. He should have done it properly and moved players on in January. He agreed to the deals at the start of the season. If he can't afford, or doesn't want to be involved in the club any more then he should just put it in admin. I'd have more respect for him than what he is doing now. As Quakerz said in other thread it's a c**** trick.

I had a lot of time and understand for raj but over the last couple of weeks that has gone. Our name in the footballing community will be less than mud now. I can't work out what he is up to at the moment but the heart of the club just feels like it is getting ripped out at the moment day by day with all of this and the complete lack of news.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by quaker4life » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:47 pm

Jazz Maverick wrote:No, i just figured since you post the same over expanded, self indulgent s*** every time the club is in crisis you'd spare us doing it again.
I don't see what was self indulgent about it? Just felt the need to go on a bit of a rant as you do from time to time.

And we all have our things don't we? You with your anger, crusher with his rants every time Darlo lose, Darlo_Pete with his inane ramblings etc, etc.
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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by bedaledarlo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:30 am

Jazz do you think, with the benefit of hindsight, you were wrong to call someone who questioned Raj ''a cancer eating it's way through the club''

Just thought now you have changed your mind about him you might feel a bit stupid and naive.

Quakerz to his credit admitted he was wrong on Cooper, just wondered if you were capable of this?

You are raking up a fooking enormous list of things you shouldn't have sounded off about and look at bit daft about now, yet Q4life isn't allowed to lament the passing of his beloved club??

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Jazz Maverick » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:47 am

bedaledarlo wrote:Jazz do you think, with the benefit of hindsight, you were wrong to call someone who questioned Raj ''a cancer eating it's way through the club''

Just thought now you have changed your mind about him you might feel a bit stupid and naive.

Quakerz to his credit admitted he was wrong on Cooper, just wondered if you were capable of this?

You are raking up a fooking enormous list of things you shouldn't have sounded off about and look at bit daft about now, yet Q4life isn't allowed to lament the passing of his beloved club??
Bedale, change the whole 'I told you so routine'.

Im happy to admit when Ive got things wrong, as unlike you, I can accept that things change (Cooper becoming s***, Singh apparently distancing himself). How is this hard for you to understand? I will take things as they come to me, until they are proven otherwise. This shows in all the subjects Ive shown you up on.

You on the other hand choose a stance based on kneejerk guesswork and whatever weird theories you have stuck in your muddled brain, and stick to it as you'e not intelligent enough to practice reasoned, flexible thinking. By pot luck you've been right a couple of times - this is no reflection on you, as things inevitably change. Learn to take things as they come, and maybe you'll be right on more than two occasions.

As the old saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day, and this sums you up perfectly.

Now dont turn this into another thread of me putting you in your place that has to be moved to the fight room. Its obvious I think you're a stupid c***, so stop dragging threads up to the top of the forum in an attempt to engage me.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:09 am

A contract is a contract. Players need to know that when they sign a contract it'll be honoured. Like others have said, its Singh's fault for agreeing the contracts in the first place. I have little or no sympathy for him.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by bedaledarlo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:30 am

:lol: :D :wtf:

I think I'm going to frame that answer!

.........I am Mr Jazz, I take things at face value, abuse those who question anything, then the facts catch up with me and I abuse them again by calling them weirdo conspiracy theorists, whilst at the same time admitting I am wrong.............

Fancy now retracting the spazz, retard, mong comments, or are you going to leave them there ? Does this make you a spazz, retard or mong? Which are you?

You only have 'Chandler is a liability' and 'Solar energy is a fad' left. You've got Mor Diop and Noel Whelan up front and Jonjo Dickman in midfield, you poor fucker

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Jazz Maverick » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:28 pm

bedaledarlo wrote: Fancy now retracting the spazz, retard, mong comments, or are you going to leave them there ? Does this make you a spazz, retard or mong? Which are you?
Nope, where you are concerned these all still stand. I know it gets to you, which is why you insist on dragging this s*** up again, but you are a fucking spacker of epic proportions. Your comments on the eu in the other forum only confirm this :lol:
You've got Mor Diop and Noel Whelan up front and Jonjo Dickman in midfield, you poor fucker
And now you're so desperate to have the last word you're making random shite up.

I know you're obsessed with having the last word, but like I say I think you're a pissy pants window licker and think its best you dont derail another thread desperately and futiley trying to get one over me. Now fuck off.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by bedaledarlo » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:27 pm

Thats quite sad and depressing, isnt it? It could never be a 'futile attempt to get another one over on you' when you have already conceded defeat, could it?

Im just asking you to have some grace, Q did over Coops, I did when he called me on attendances which went up under Coops this season.

So when you were a little boy and you got into trouble for abusing your little brother or sister or whatever poor fooker had to grow up with you and your Mam and Dad told you off, what did you do?

Did you say, I know I was wrong Mam, but she's still a spazz?

People dont mind the abuse Jazz, they can take it. Nobody on here is a 'pissy pants' they just take exception to being addressed in a disrespectful way by someone with zero credibility or authority on anything.

Its important for you to understand that in the grown up world it makes you look like a c*** when you're arguments fall apart and you have sounded off so loudly.

Also it has NEVER added to your credibility, OR undermined anyone else's by you been so abusive.

The only person your abuse ever undermines is yourself lad. It also does nothing positive for the message board or fan unity.

Try to piss less people off in 2012 eh?

Now go in peace if you cant go in good grace and have a happy Christmas.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Jazz Maverick » Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:00 pm

:lol:

Fuck me, you stupid inbred mong c***. You're so painfully desperate to have the last word you post a 10 paragraph ranting essay despite the fact I told you to fuck off, as I'm not bothering my arse with your non sensical, trying to be clever s*** anymore.

Now do one, and stop obsessing over me, you always wrong twat.

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Re: The Most Important Question

Post by Fatty eats roadkill » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:51 pm

#love is in the air, everywhere I look around#
:o
:D
Waiting for Raj to shaft them!

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