The new president of the USA.

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Darlo_Pete
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The new president of the USA.

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:46 pm

So what do people think of Donald Trump? Over the last couple of weeks I've seen quite a lot of American news TV and Trump came over as being a lot more moderate than when the campaign started, so it wasn't a big surprise to me that he won.

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by lo36789 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:09 pm

Don't agree with his opinions - but not particularly sold on Clinton either. Think a half decent democrat candidate would have slaughtered him.

Do I think he'll do half the stuff he has said for sound bites no. I don't think that those who voted for him for change for them will benefit from it mind. I really don't the rural US is going to be his top priority.

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:14 pm

What is strange is that in theory the Republicans get the votes of the more well off and the Democrats get the votes of the working class. But this time Republicans get people voting for them that are unemployed, like in West Virginia and the Democrats won in California, which is relatively prosperous.

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Mr_Tibbs
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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by Mr_Tibbs » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:41 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:What is strange is that in theory the Republicans get the votes of the more well off and the Democrats get the votes of the working class. But this time Republicans get people voting for them that are unemployed, like in West Virginia and the Democrats won in California, which is relatively prosperous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eEag2VC-B0#t=156 (Sound UP)

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by lo36789 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:14 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:But this time Republicans get people voting for them that are unemployed, like in West Virginia and the Democrats won in California, which is relatively prosperous.
It's not that strange really when you look at what the campaign was built upon. These are the people that have been left unemployed because jobs have been automated, moved abroad of believe their salaries have been undercut by migrant workers.

Trump basically had a multi-pronged attack on all this. Suggesting he would reinstate trade tariffs (so it becomes more cost effective to manufacture internally) and would not only get tougher on migration he would actively deport existing migrant workers.

If Trump had ran his campaign on the basis that he will cut taxes for the wealthiest, loosen regulation and encourage more capitalism. He has mentioned he will do all these things by the way but they aren't the memorable sound bites.

I really don't think it will matter much though I don't really think he will do most of what I say in the second paragraph and the stuff in the third paragraph is just standard right wing politics - not what I agree with and not that I don't care but...it's happening closer to home and I prioritise my concern for that.

Do think it was interesting that had there being proportional representation (which we all know Nigel Farage is a big fan of) Clinton would have won. Nice to see Nigel is being as pleasant as ever.

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by Henley » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:50 pm

lo36789 wrote: Do think it was interesting that had there being proportional representation (which we all know Nigel Farage is a big fan of) Clinton would have won. Nice to see Nigel is being as pleasant as ever.
That's naive.

The Donald (and I expect, to a lesser extent, HRC) didn't bother holding rallies in states where he was never going to win. If he had/or had more of a chance of victory in those states he would have received more votes.

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by lo36789 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:42 pm

Henley wrote:
lo36789 wrote: Do think it was interesting that had there being proportional representation (which we all know Nigel Farage is a big fan of) Clinton would have won. Nice to see Nigel is being as pleasant as ever.
That's naive.

The Donald (and I expect, to a lesser extent, HRC) didn't bother holding rallies in states where he was never going to win. If he had/or had more of a chance of victory in those states he would have received more votes.
erm that is surely absolutely no different to any normal situation? The tactics for running the election and to an extent voter behaviour is dependent on the voting system that is being applied.

Farage complained that first past the post was unfair because of the proportional representation he could have gotten...if there was a PR system in the UK people would not have voted the same way and the outcome would have been entirely different.

For instance I know labour supporters in parts of Cheshire who vote Lib Dem because they have more chance than Labour of unseating the Tory incumbent. If it was PR there would be no tactical voting.

It was an identical scenario. In an alternative voting system Farage complained that the outcome with the same votes would have been different under a different system...when they wouldn't be.

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by Henley » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:04 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Henley wrote:
lo36789 wrote: Do think it was interesting that had there being proportional representation (which we all know Nigel Farage is a big fan of) Clinton would have won. Nice to see Nigel is being as pleasant as ever.
That's naive.

The Donald (and I expect, to a lesser extent, HRC) didn't bother holding rallies in states where he was never going to win. If he had/or had more of a chance of victory in those states he would have received more votes.
erm that is surely absolutely no different to any normal situation? The tactics for running the election and to an extent voter behaviour is dependent on the voting system that is being applied.

Farage complained that first past the post was unfair because of the proportional representation he could have gotten...if there was a PR system in the UK people would not have voted the same way and the outcome would have been entirely different.

For instance I know labour supporters in parts of Cheshire who vote Lib Dem because they have more chance than Labour of unseating the Tory incumbent. If it was PR there would be no tactical voting.

It was an identical scenario. In an alternative voting system Farage complained that the outcome with the same votes would have been different under a different system...when they wouldn't be.
I haven't got a clue what point the above is supposed to be making, if indeed that's its aim.

You said HRC would have won if it was proportional representation. I said why it was naive of you to suggest that.

Then you start wittering about Farage :crazy:

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by lo36789 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:50 pm

No my whole original point was about Farage - the perennial moaner that the system is rigged against him. Yet the very same system is unquestionable when it goes in his favour.

I do think it's an interesting dynamic I mean we are used to being governed by a controlling party whom the majority didn't vote for - it perhaps more conspicuous in such a 2 horse race.

as I say both candidates were terrible I was rooting for Haranbe

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by Henley » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:38 pm

lo36789 wrote:No my whole original point was about Farage - the perennial moaner that the system is rigged against him. Yet the very same system is unquestionable when it goes in his favour.
:eh:

But I didn't mention Farage. I solely countered your suggestion that it would have been a different election result if Proportional Representation was used. End of. There was nothing more to be said and what you did say was irrelevant to my comment.

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by lo36789 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:05 pm

I didn't actually say that. I said it was 'interesting' - and have elaborated on that above as I say more prominent in a two-horse race. Then mentioned Farage and how quiet he was about it all - given how vocal he has been previously.

I perhaps assumed too much of you in terms of joining up dots, and not feeling the need to elaborate on every point. I will remember to spell it out in future.

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Re: The new president of the USA.

Post by Mr_Tibbs » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:18 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:So what do people think of Donald Trump? Over the last couple of weeks I've seen quite a lot of American news TV and Trump came over as being a lot more moderate than when the campaign started, so it wasn't a big surprise to me that he won.
Personally I'm delighted that Trump won.

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