Anybody need a job?

[ted_do]

Worth a try though

With all the learning and training we have to do and continue doing it may as well be.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there, most jobs now are continual learning and training, over the last 20 years that I have been with my employer I have been going to college doing different training loads of times. The problem is I left school and went into an “engineering” apprenticeship and from there working hard and proving my self moved up to management, but I see people becoming my managers who have little experience but do have something I don’t and that’s a degree, A degree is still the gold standard but only once you have actually got a job there are loads of people with degrees who are out of work and one or two in work that are not using the degree, ie they could have got the same job without the degree.
In today’s day and age I would have pushed myself to go to uni but thirty years ago when I left school most average kids like me drifted into work from the age of 16, missing out on broadening the mind and the university life. Also lots of the training I have done keeps getting superseded and has to be redone again I don’t know how many times I have to do HNC then its NVQ and now its foundation degree, Im sure a BA/Msc is a BA/Msc for ever and not poo poo`d as being out of date, don’t even mention the two years I wasted doing City and Guilds which are now given out like book tokens.

I will be pushing my Kids to go to Uni for some of the reasons shown in this tread, people with degree`s are still thought of as superior whether they are is debatable, especially these days when lots of people have them and the pay gap between the "lowly" electrician and the degree educated (30k debt) electric engineer is shrinking year on year.

[Jazz Maverick]

Whilst what you say about the employability of graduates up to now is completely true, I think you'll see a swing the other way over the next decade or so, where experienced and time served individuals are promoted and employed before those with token degrees.

The whole nu-labour '50% of kids should go to Uni' (regardless of whether it's a useful course or the kids have the aptitude) attitude, coupled the relatively cheap tuition fees up until recently, mean that the labour market is flooded with graduates with borderline passes of useless degrees. You've seen from your own experience, as I have mine, that this is coming to fruition with people being hired on the back of the fact they happen to have a degree, but turning out to be utterly useless, especially when compared to the equivalent time served man who has worked their way up.

Don't get me wrong, higher education in this country is on the whole excellent, and there are still the same number of highly intelligent and capable kids, graduating with excellent degrees. If my kids have the aptitude for it I'd implore them to go. I just feel that years of every average joe being told they must go to university and get a media studies degree has massively diluted the graduate pool, and devalued to term 'graduate' itself.

[lo36789]

employers are already quite savvy to what degree's are worth the paper they are written on.

In my peer group a lot of people went to University. The majority are not in employment that they could not have got if they hadn't had the degree. Some are in denial other accept that their events management degree was a mistake and are now having to re-train through PGCE's etc.

I think one of the saddest things from an education perspective in this country is that teaching has become the fall back career/qualification. There are still the select few who want to get into teaching as a career but I reckon the vast majority that I know in teaching it was a case of "those who can't...".

[Fatty eats roadkill]

Woodham school is the perfect example. My daughter wanted to do French and German however the school couldn't do that due to lack of numbers for German and the school timetable. She had the choice of art or media studies. She chose media studies and is pissing the subject as it's that easy. A total waste of time!

[ted_do]

Whilst what you say about the employability of graduates up to now is completely true, I think you'll see a swing the other way over the next decade or so, where experienced and time served individuals are promoted and employed before those with token degrees.

The whole nu-labour '50% of kids should go to Uni' (regardless of whether it's a useful course or the kids have the aptitude) attitude, coupled the relatively cheap tuition fees up until recently, mean that the labour market is flooded with graduates with borderline passes of useless degrees. You've seen from your own experience, as I have mine, that this is coming to fruition with people being hired on the back of the fact they happen to have a degree, but turning out to be utterly useless, especially when compared to the equivalent time served man who has worked their way up.

Don't get me wrong, higher education in this country is on the whole excellent, and there are still the same number of highly intelligent and capable kids, graduating with excellent degrees. If my kids have the aptitude for it I'd implore them to go. I just feel that years of every average joe being told they must go to university and get a media studies degree has massively diluted the graduate pool, and devalued to term 'graduate' itself.

Yep I think you are right, although in my company I can manage a team of craftsmen with my experience and qualification, but to be a project manager and another 10K you need a degree, this is really frustrating as having been here since leaving school, I am a product of my employer, so if I`m not good enough but a young graduate is then the company`s succession planning must wrong.
In saying that I have lead a good life, paid my mortgage off, had the cars, the holidays, all without being a graduate.
I would hate to do a degree now, it would be difficult to fit in work & family life around study, I am out of the dissertation loop (as my spelling and grammar shows) I have shift patterns, standby, callouts, risk assessment and P&ID diagrams buzzing around my head, I dream motors and pumps not mathematical equations, so I think retirement is my next big change.

[bigbitchtits]

Apprenticeships are the way forward, learn a trade whilst getting put through uni

[lo36789]

Woodham school is the perfect example. My daughter wanted to do French and German however the school couldn't do that due to lack of numbers for German and the school timetable. She had the choice of art or media studies. She chose media studies and is pissing the subject as it's that easy. A total waste of time!

I find this sort of thing really shocking. I had to do Media Studies at school (again a choice between that and Art) but couldn't care less for either subject so walked away with much lower marks than I got for Maths, Science & IT.

It was a complete and utter waste of time and probably the worst of it is I just ended up being a distraction to others in the class actually interested in it because I would play up through boredom and not caring!

I know she must be quite young but have you ever looked at after school classes for your daughter at other institutions because MFL skills are always an asset (ended up using my Mandarin in work the other day unexpectedly!). I think if you are in FT education then evening class stuff is free or heavily subsidised.

[Jazz Maverick]

Whilst what you say about the employability of graduates up to now is completely true, I think you'll see a swing the other way over the next decade or so, where experienced and time served individuals are promoted and employed before those with token degrees.

The whole nu-labour '50% of kids should go to Uni' (regardless of whether it's a useful course or the kids have the aptitude) attitude, coupled the relatively cheap tuition fees up until recently, mean that the labour market is flooded with graduates with borderline passes of useless degrees. You've seen from your own experience, as I have mine, that this is coming to fruition with people being hired on the back of the fact they happen to have a degree, but turning out to be utterly useless, especially when compared to the equivalent time served man who has worked their way up.

Don't get me wrong, higher education in this country is on the whole excellent, and there are still the same number of highly intelligent and capable kids, graduating with excellent degrees. If my kids have the aptitude for it I'd implore them to go. I just feel that years of every average joe being told they must go to university and get a media studies degree has massively diluted the graduate pool, and devalued to term 'graduate' itself.

Yep I think you are right, although in my company I can manage a team of craftsmen with my experience and qualification, but to be a project manager and another 10K you need a degree, this is really frustrating as having been here since leaving school, I am a product of my employer, so if I`m not good enough but a young graduate is then the company`s succession planning must wrong.
In saying that I have lead a good life, paid my mortgage off, had the cars, the holidays, all without being a graduate.
I would hate to do a degree now, it would be difficult to fit in work & family life around study, I am out of the dissertation loop (as my spelling and grammar shows) I have shift patterns, standby, callouts, risk assessment and P&ID diagrams buzzing around my head, I dream motors and pumps not mathematical equations, so I think retirement is my next big change.

Same here, I'm 29 and even at my age it's a million times harder to learn and take new things in than it was 10 years ago.

I'm currently learning German, I used to speak it (along with French) to a very high standard as a kid, but it's half gone now and it's not as easy learning it second time round!

[thomo27]

Very true.. I tried to learn how to juggle on holiday and was outdone by kids who picked it up straight away..the key is learning how to do it with 2 balls first!

[Dave_from_London]

Whilst what you say about the employability of graduates up to now is completely true, I think you'll see a swing the other way over the next decade or so, where experienced and time served individuals are promoted and employed before those with token degrees.

The whole nu-labour '50% of kids should go to Uni' (regardless of whether it's a useful course or the kids have the aptitude) attitude, coupled the relatively cheap tuition fees up until recently, mean that the labour market is flooded with graduates with borderline passes of useless degrees. You've seen from your own experience, as I have mine, that this is coming to fruition with people being hired on the back of the fact they happen to have a degree, but turning out to be utterly useless, especially when compared to the equivalent time served man who has worked their way up.

Don't get me wrong, higher education in this country is on the whole excellent, and there are still the same number of highly intelligent and capable kids, graduating with excellent degrees. If my kids have the aptitude for it I'd implore them to go. I just feel that years of every average joe being told they must go to university and get a media studies degree has massively diluted the graduate pool, and devalued to term 'graduate' itself.

Yep I think you are right, although in my company I can manage a team of craftsmen with my experience and qualification, but to be a project manager and another 10K you need a degree, this is really frustrating as having been here since leaving school, I am a product of my employer, so if I`m not good enough but a young graduate is then the company`s succession planning must wrong.
In saying that I have lead a good life, paid my mortgage off, had the cars, the holidays, all without being a graduate.
I would hate to do a degree now, it would be difficult to fit in work & family life around study, I am out of the dissertation loop (as my spelling and grammar shows) I have shift patterns, standby, callouts, risk assessment and P&ID diagrams buzzing around my head, I dream motors and pumps not mathematical equations, so I think retirement is my next big change.

Same here, I'm 29 and even at my age it's a million times harder to learn and take new things in than it was 10 years ago.

I'm currently learning German, I used to speak it (along with French) to a very high standard as a kid, but it's half gone now and it's not as easy learning it second time round!

I wanted to study German when I was at school but I only had the option of learning boring French. I think languages is the future as most businesses deal with foreign clients. I could do an evening course but its finding the time and money to do it

[bigbitchtits]

Very true.. I tried to learn how to juggle on holiday and was outdone by kids who picked it up straight away..the key is learning how to do it with 2 balls first!

...but what about the juggling?

[Vokuhila]

I'm currently learning German, I used to speak it (along with French) to a very high standard as a kid, but it's half gone now and it's not as easy learning it second time round!

If you were good at it as a kid though, it'll probably all still be there somewhere, I reckon.

It's a real shame that languages (and German in particular) seem to be getting sidelined in schools, as there's so much more you can get out of learning one beyond just being able to speak it etc.

Vocationally speaking though, you can be pretty limited if you're a languages graduate, not least if your language is German, as a lot of German/Austrian/Swiss companies doing business with British firms will invariably have at least one employee with excellent English, so having someone with German language skills isn't always necessary unfortunately.

[jarramel]

Time served fitter, employed as a cnc turner on a mazak intergrex and 800.

None of which is engineering. Don’t downgrade our profession.

I know this may seem odd but could you point out to me where i claimed to be an accredited engineer?
Spoke to the head engineer at our place about your comments by the way (he has a phd).
He said for anyone to say they are an engineer and belittle tradesmen is ridiculous as they need they both need each others expertise in said fields.
As he served his time he does not really rate graduates.
His comment was JK Rowlands can write about wizards but i doubt she can cast a spell.
I found that amusing.

[AndyPark]

JK Rowlands? J.K Rowling you mean....

[jarramel]

JK Rowlands? J.K Rowling you mean....

Aye him as well

[Fatty eats roadkill]

Or her!

I think the snow has puddled your brain even more mel

[jarramel]

Or her!

I think the snow has puddled your brain even more mel

Bit of a whoosh there mate.
I know shes a wifey.