Rolling Euro 2012 thread

AndyPark · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:25 am

On the plus side, I won some money from this. England win and Carroll to score the opener 7/1 odds. £10 placed so that'll do me

grytters · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:51 am

Giovanni Trappatoni said, not wrote:

It is not my habit to be critical of other colleagues as coaches or managers, but for Roy Keane I'll make an exception…

Spyman · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:10 am

Vokuhila wrote:

I've been disappointed by Ashley Young so far tbh. He should've had Granqvist and Branko Lustig on toast tonight, but instead he just kept on losing the ball. Perhaps Rooney coming back 'll bring out the best in him again though.

Young was poor last night.

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princes town · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:10 am

not sure if anybody has watched Petr Cech this tournament but he seems to have lost his nerve. !st game he bottled achallenge at somebody's feet and the other night he made a clanger because he was more worried about banging into his defender. I think the head injury has got to him. guy on talksport said the same thing this morning. Any thoughts?

On the Young issue, i like him as a player but he is horribly inconsistent. I'm still worried about Johnson against Spain/Italy. even his last minute challenges generally happen when he gets too square on. I also noticed that Terry got bullied a bit by Ibrahamovitch and any pace has gone. He seems to be fading physically. Just things to be a bit concerned about. The good thing is that ukraine are gash. personally, I think people have belittled Sweden too much, I though they played quite a nice game but again they have awful defenders at this level, particularly the guy from West Brom.

DarloOnTheUp · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:25 am

I've been disappointed with Young as well but Johnson played well last night, not sure what you lot were watching. It wasn't him who was at fault for the two goals. He's been one of our most consistent performers so far.

Oh and Milner needs replacing. He was absolutely pants last night.

Jazz Maverick · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:10 am

That was the first England game I've enjoyed since 2002.

princes town · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:39 am

Jazz Maverick wrote:

That was the first England game I've enjoyed since 2002.

England showed a lot of spirit which is half the battle.

DarloOnTheUp wrote:

I've been disappointed with Young as well but Johnson played well last night, not sure what you lot were watching. It wasn't him who was at fault for the two goals. He's been one of our most consistent performers so far.

Oh and Milner needs replacing. He was absolutely pants last night.

Johnson was at fault for the first goal. Basic lesson of football is you push out on the 2nd ball, he didn't and played everyone onside. Johnson is not daft athletically or technically but his positional sense is all over the place which makes me wonder if he would be better as a wing back. Anyway, I'm a welsh supporter but even I've got to admit England supporters should be broadly happy with that performance as Jazz said. You can have all the talent in the world but if you ain't got heart it is a waste of time and England showed plenty of spirit given that they were against the ropes for 15 minutes. I'll give Hodgy credit for once he has man-managed very well and Walcott was an inspired substitution.

comeondarlo · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:48 pm

Spyman wrote:

I'd take Carroll out for Rooney, if we're going to take anyone out. Carroll had a good first half, but was poor in the second and gave away a completely unnecessary free-kick for their first goal. Both strikers tracked back well and won the ball off Swedish midfielders on plenty of occaisions.

I also think a Rooney/Wellbeck partnership will have more impact than a Rooney/Carroll partnership - they know each others game inside out from playing together at club level for starters.

What is clear is that Hodgson picks the players needed to suit the tactics he wants, he doesn't just base it on who played well in the last game. Hence why Oxlade-Chamberlain made way tonight for Carroll.

The reason we won't trouble the best teams is that we always seem to have that 20 minute spell where the team goes awol and gives complete control to the opposition. Between the first Swedish goal and Walcott's equaliser we were awful, resorting to hoof ball and completely lacking in ideas. Gerrard frustrates me as he's capable of picking a great ball like he did for Carroll's goal, but also when he gets desperate resorts to Hollywood balls every time.

Last but not least, Terry and Lescott were nowhere near as solid tonight as they were against France. Maybe it was down to less protection, I'm not sure. But they need to fix it quick sharp.

Sweden actually played the ball into the box! The French didn't!!!
Hence they were under more pressure.
I have to say I agree with everything you say above.

Young was awful plus he's like a big kid when things don't go his way; he does my head in!

DarloOnTheUp · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:06 pm

princes town wrote:

Johnson was at fault for the first goal. Basic lesson of football is you push out on the 2nd ball, he didn't and played everyone onside. Johnson is not daft athletically or technically but his positional sense is all over the place which makes me wonder if he would be better as a wing back. Anyway, I'm a welsh supporter but even I've got to admit England supporters should be broadly happy with that performance as Jazz said. You can have all the talent in the world but if you ain't got heart it is a waste of time and England showed plenty of spirit given that they were against the ropes for 15 minutes. I'll give Hodgy credit for once he has man-managed very well and Walcott was an inspired substitution.

OK, I totally forgot about that but still: it was one mistake. Hardly worth the crucifying he's getting in here, and certainly not worth suggesting putting Walcott at RB (LOL, yeah, because his defensive positioning will be much better).

Plus it was a mistake which can be highlighted and worked on.

Vokuhila · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:06 pm

Is 'athletically/technically daft' common coaching parlance?

Hope the Russians and Poles win tonight as I'd love to see a Poland/Germany quarter-final.

TFDM · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:40 pm

Not going to get into the debate about who played well etc but I did enjoy the match. We showed a bit of bottle in the second half and it's the first time I've really enjoyed an England match for a very long time. Say what you about Hodgsom but at least he has a plan B.

Vokuhila · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:00 pm

I wonder how many teams have won their group at the European Championships with a negative goal difference. Russia must be kicking themselves.

davidcorks 40yard OG · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:03 pm

Vokuhila wrote:

I wonder how many teams have won their group at the European Championships with a negative goal difference. Russia must be kicking themselves.

Its crazy how Greece went through with a worse goal difference than Russia .

I always thought goal difference was used 1st then head to head

princes town · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:39 pm

davidcorks 40yard OG wrote:

Vokuhila wrote:

I wonder how many teams have won their group at the European Championships with a negative goal difference. Russia must be kicking themselves.

Its crazy how Greece went through with a worse goal difference than Russia .

I always thought goal difference was used 1st then head to head

Interesting point. I guess it avoids the possibility that one crazy game can distort the goal difference figures. For example, those teams going into the last game playing teams who have been knocked out already may get an unfair advantage simply because of the schedule.

grytters · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:36 pm

If, as tomorrow's newspapers seem to allege, England's tactics at "defending corners and set pieces" had been passed to the Swedes; how come the England team hadn't seen them?

Vokuhila · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:54 pm

The Czech Republic/Russia game wasn't crazy though & 4-1 was probably a fair reflection.

Fair play to the Greeks, mind. They've been pretty awful at times, not had much luck with injuries and that sending-off in the first game was just ridiculous, but they've still managed to somehow get through. Don't think they'll be able to live with the Germans (assuming they win their group tomorrow) in the next round though.

Can't help thinking the Russians thought they were already through at halftime in the second game and just got complacent.

princes town · **Posted:** Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:37 pm

Vokuhila wrote:

The Czech Republic/Russia game wasn't crazy though & 4-1 was probably a fair reflection.

Fair play to the Greeks, mind. They've been pretty awful at times, not had much luck with injuries and that sending-off in the first game was just ridiculous, but they've still managed to somehow get through. Don't think they'll be able to live with the Germans (assuming they win their group tomorrow) in the next round though.

Can't help thinking the Russians thought they were already through at halftime in the second game and just got complacent.

No the first game wasn't.

given the problems in Greece, I was quite pleased for the team. I think they have shown a lot of resolve and they do try and get the ball down. Poland in contrast were appalling tonight and it is a shame to see how far they have regressed since the great days of Boniek and Lato. The fact that they could raise their game for Russia but not tonight says little for the motivation of their players.

quakerray · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:35 am

just heard today that greece have put their quarter final place on ebay to raise some cash for the country

Darlo4eva2012 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:38 am

Vokuhila wrote:

I wonder how many teams have won their group at the European Championships with a negative goal difference. Russia must be kicking themselves.

it seams strange that UEFA would look at the head to heads first considering no other competitions do that.

I was hoping that Poland would equalise against the Czechs as that would leave both of them plus Russia on four points with the head to heads as:

Russia beat Czech Republic - so Russia should be above the Czechs
Czech Republic beat Greece - so Czech Republic should be above Greece
Greece beat Russia - so Greece should be above Russia

with that set of results there is no way that they could do it on head to heads, so they would have had to look at goal difference - so why not use that in the first place?

mikkyx · **Joined:** Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:52 pm **Posts:** 3219

They do revert to goal difference over head to heads if there's more than two teams tied on points don't they? As I recall it yesterday while the Czech game was 0-0 and the Greeks were winning 1-0 Russia were still going through on goal difference as group winners (Rus +2, Greece 0, Czechs -2)

Russia 4-1 Czech Rep
Greece 1-2 Czech Rep
Russia 0-1 Greece

Russia P2 W1 D0 L1 F4 A2 Pts 3 (GD +2)
Greece P2 W1 D0 L1 F2 A2 Pts 3 (GD 0)
Czech P2 W1 D0 L1 F3 A5 Pts 3 (GD -2)

Can't remember the rules

DarloOnTheUp · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:55 am

mikkyx wrote:

They do revert to goal difference over head to heads if there's more than two teams tied on points don't they? As I recall it yesterday while the Czech game was 0-0 and the Greeks were winning 1-0 Russia were still going through on goal difference as group winners (Rus +2, Greece 0, Czechs -2)

Russia 4-1 Czech Rep
Greece 1-2 Czech Rep
Russia 0-1 Greece

Russia P2 W1 D0 L1 F4 A2 Pts 3 (GD +2)
Greece P2 W1 D0 L1 F2 A2 Pts 3 (GD 0)
Czech P2 W1 D0 L1 F3 A5 Pts 3 (GD -2)

Can't remember the rules

I'm pretty sure it's head to head first, then goal difference, then goals scored.

grytters · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:17 pm

[quote="mikkyx"]They do revert to goal difference over head to heads if there's more than two teams tied on points don't they? quote]

Nope.

It's head-to-head against tied teams first.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18454917

grytters · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:18 pm

Darlo4eva2012 wrote:

Vokuhila wrote:

I wonder how many teams have won their group at the European Championships with a negative goal difference. Russia must be kicking themselves.

it seams strange that UEFA would look at the head to heads first considering no other competitions do that.

Then you are not qualified to comment upon this, as you are clearly not insane.

Fatty eats roadkill · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:27 pm

How long before Lazarus pops up with one of his reincarnations saying I told you so about the Greeks?

Spyman · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:15 pm

DarloOnTheUp wrote:

Big Tim wrote:

2-0 Czech republic already after 8mins

Fucking hell. I remember having an argument with crazy Ted about how s*** Greece are and that they would bomb out of the competition, but he wouldn't accept it. Seems I was right.

Seems you weren't.

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Fatty eats roadkill · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 3:19 pm

Very rare DOTU is right!

Like you said spyman, again he is wrong!

davidcorks 40yard OG · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:05 pm

Fatty eats roadkill wrote:

How long before Lazarus pops up with one of his reincarnations saying I told you so about the Greeks?

Wouldnt suprise me if the immortal chef was already on here :oops:

quakerray wrote:

just heard today that greece have put their quarter final place on ebay to raise some cash for the country

Darlo4eva2012 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:06 pm

grytters wrote:

mikkyx wrote:

They do revert to goal difference over head to heads if there's more than two teams tied on points don't they? quote]

Nope.

It's head-to-head against tied teams first.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18454917

you say no, but then supply a link that proves at mikkyx is correct.

(a) higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question

as the table Mikkyx produced shows that each of the three teams would have scored three points against each other

in fact in my example

Russia beat Czech Republic - so Russia should be above the Czechs
Czech Republic beat Greece - so Czech Republic should be above Greece
Greece beat Russia - so Greece should be above Russia

if we take the first two results Russia above the Czechs and Czechs above the Greeks
the table is:
Russia
Czech Republic
Greece

then factor in the last result:

Greece should be above Russia

You cant move the Greeks abve the Russians, because if you do you also move them above the Czechs, but as the Czechs beat the Greeks you can do this.

so we need to revert to:

superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question

so if two teams are tied on the same number of points, we look at the head to head, more than three it will be impossible to split them you it would revert to goal difference

DarloOnTheUp · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:55 pm

Spyman wrote:

DarloOnTheUp wrote:

Big Tim wrote:

2-0 Czech republic already after 8mins

Fucking hell. I remember having an argument with crazy Ted about how s*** Greece are and that they would bomb out of the competition, but he wouldn't accept it. Seems I was right.

Seems you weren't.

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I'm still right about them being s***, and I still think they'll bomb out in the next round.

DarloOnTheUp · **Posted:** Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:24 pm

Fatty eats roadkill wrote:

Very rare DOTU is wrong!

Fixed it for you.

Rolling Euro 2012 thread

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