League restarts 6 February

[LoidLucan]

"However, if clubs at those levels can demonstrate it needs grant funding urgently to survive, we will ensure that option is available."


That simply isn't good enough. Looks like to be even considered for a grant the club must be on the brink of collapse. That's hardly a sensible way of going forward. It would be appalling if clubs are coerced into playing with most income streams cut off with loans having to be taken out or the possibility of applying for emergency grants only if the club is about to go under. This must be resisted.

[theoriginalfatcat]

"However, if clubs at those levels can demonstrate it needs grant funding urgently to survive, we will ensure that option is available."


That simply isn't good enough. Looks like to be even considered for a grant the club most be on the brink of collapse. That's hardly a sensible way of going forward. It would be appalling if clubs are coerced into playing with most income streams cut off with loans having to be taken out or the possibility of applying for emergency grants if the club is about to go under. This must be resisted.

I agree. That little quote could mean anything.

It could be a box ticking exercise to get everyone off the hook (ie every club or nearly every club gets a grant) or it could be a ploy to shovel debt onto clubs.

[m62exile]

There is an article on the BBC web page now. Apparently we will be asked to fill out a form and apply for a grant.

I wonder if clubs like York with cash in the bank will be successful- I wonder if we will be successful?

"Grants will be considered if a club's imminent future is at risk"

I'm pretty sure DJ has said our cash reserves mean we are not in imminent danger.

....if the season is cancelled, or the grants were continued. I don’t believe he said that we would be ok if we play the season out.


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[Old Git]

Surely what is likely to happen is that teams will have to start off with loans if they are in a reasonable financial situation. If as seems likely they start to get into financial difficulties further down the line then they may be eligible for a grant.
This is crazy it just seems like a way of putting most clubs into the financial mire sooner or later and for what? Ridiculous position to put clubs in.

[en passant]

Would it therefore be OK for a club to sign, say, 20 additional players, and then claim that they can't afford to pay them, so need to have a grant to save the club from going under? With our fixture backlog this looks like it would be a great idea.

[theoriginalfatcat]

Surely what is likely to happen is that teams will have to start off with loans if they are in a reasonable financial situation. If as seems likely they start to get into financial difficulties further down the line then they may be eligible for a grant.
This is crazy it just seems like a way of putting most clubs into the financial mire sooner or later and for what? Ridiculous position to put clubs in.

Yes, I would agree O.G.

We are a CIC. We take pride in being run properly, and so we should with our history.

This government thinks that everybody and every company should carry debt.

[wizardofos]

It's the first time all the Clubs at lower levels have a communal reason for getting into the "financial mire". A reasonable number of them manage to do so every year without Covid.
The current situation is simply providing a smokescreen for the underlying problems.
The Cheltenham Chairman, on live TV last week, said they would lose £1m this season if it wasn't for their good cup run.

[Vodka_Vic]

As Darlofan 97 says, fully expect this to go legal. However, it will need the cooperation of a number of clubs from both NLN and NLS. The 12 that signed that letter are a good start. From what DJ said, it is either not legal to force a business to operate by taking on a debt, or it is just morally poor business practice. It isn't obvious which it is from what he said. If it is the latter, then I am worried. Yes, we will survive the season, but will have significant debts.

[Quaker85]

York have brought two players in on loan to strengthen their already 25 man squad. That signals they expect to be playing on.....


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[Darlofan97]

As Darlofan 97 says, fully expect this to go legal. However, it will need the cooperation of a number of clubs from both NLN and NLS. The 12 that signed that letter are a good start. From what DJ said, it is either not legal to force a business to operate by taking on a debt, or it is just morally poor business practice. It isn't obvious which it is from what he said. If it is the latter, then I am worried. Yes, we will survive the season, but will have significant debts.

Agreed, we need other club’s support with it too. Stronger in numbers.

The National League board can punish clubs for not fulfilling their fixtures, but only if they do not have “just cause” for doing so.

Obviously that leaves it quite vague, but I’m sure we could argue that:

1)Without regular testing it is unsafe under the Health & Safety at Work Act.

2)You cannot force a limited company to take on a loan, therefore the club will run out of cash & will be liquidated by the end of the season if it fulfils its fixtures.

3)The expectation of taking on loans to continue the season is both immoral & cannot be enforced.

4)If the club does take on the loan, then there is uncertainty over how & when the loan will be repaid given the impact Covid-19 is having on revenue streams within football. This would also place the club at risk of liquidation in the medium to long-term.

5)The club exercises the right to its use of the furlough scheme in order to safeguard the assets & trading of the company for the benefit of the wider community.

Let’s be clear. This situation is as a result of the absolute failure & negligence of the National League board, who appear to be doing very little to help solve this crisis. If anything, quite the opposite by instructing clubs to fulfil their fixtures on February 6th.

[theoriginalfatcat]

As Darlofan 97 says, fully expect this to go legal. However, it will need the cooperation of a number of clubs from both NLN and NLS. The 12 that signed that letter are a good start. From what DJ said, it is either not legal to force a business to operate by taking on a debt, or it is just morally poor business practice. It isn't obvious which it is from what he said. If it is the latter, then I am worried. Yes, we will survive the season, but will have significant debts.

I thought it was clear what he said.

In his interview D.J said it was (in his view) illegal for someone in his position to take out a loan without knowing how he could pay it back. D.J will know more about this than both the government and the league, whose positions seem extremely vague to say the least.

Unless of course all this is a smoke screen designed to save face and every club who applies will get the grants, like how it was at the start of the season.

[jjljks]

Chester chairman just been interviewed on BBC R5L and gave good overview of the current situation & lack of clarity about the "loans", what they could be secured against, rates of interest etc etc. His view was 1/3 of clubs would vote to take the "loan" and play, 1/3 won't play if "loans" are the only funding & final 1/3 waiting for more explanation & details of the loan before committing themselves to debt.
Chester are, like us, owned by fans and stand with DJ in opposition to "loans".

[spen666]

Chester chairman just been interviewed on BBC R5L and gave good overview of the current situation & lack of clarity about the "loans", what they could be secured against, rates of interest etc etc. His view was 1/3 of clubs would vote to take the "loan" and play, 1/3 won't play if "loans" are the only funding & final 1/3 waiting for more explanation & details of the loan before committing themselves to debt.
Chester are, like us, owned by fans and stand with DJ in opposition to "loans".

Chester didn't sign the letter last week, unlike Darlington and 11 others, including Spennymoor, Gateshead & Blyth

https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/statu ... 71/photo/1

[jjljks]

Chester might not have signed the letter, but from the interview, they are completely with the 12 clubs

[lo36789]

In his interview D.J said it was (in his view) illegal for someone in his position to take out a loan without knowing how he could pay it back. D.J will know more about this than both the government and the league, whose positions seem extremely vague to say the least.

From what DJ said, it is either not legal to force a business to operate by taking on a debt, or it is just morally poor business practice.

It's not his view. It is law, I expect the government would know since it is their legislation!

The league cannot force anyone to do anything. They can apply their competition rules though which would potentially mean penalties if clubs don't fulfil fixtures effectively.

Company directors on the other hand cannot knowingly trade insolvent. As it means you are effectively generating creditors you don't know if you can pay.

York have brought two players in on loan to strengthen their already 25 man squad. That signals they expect to be playing on.....

I mean we also brought in two loans last week.

I can it assume the league are saying it's restart fixtures on 6th for the competition. That is the baseline position if the vote outcomes mean the season is suspended then the position will change.

[Old Git]

Lets hope that the League’s position is that the games will start again on February 6th unless clubs vote otherwise. It could be that they recognise that if the season is to be completed in time then a start must be made soon.
Hopefully they will give teams an opportunity to say that they want the season to be cancelled. In effect they are abdicating responsibility and making the clubs responsible for the decision. At best they are failing in their responsibility to provide leadership at worst they are totally irresponsible.

[Darlofan97]

Chester chairman just been interviewed on BBC R5L and gave good overview of the current situation & lack of clarity about the "loans", what they could be secured against, rates of interest etc etc. His view was 1/3 of clubs would vote to take the "loan" and play, 1/3 won't play if "loans" are the only funding & final 1/3 waiting for more explanation & details of the loan before committing themselves to debt.
Chester are, like us, owned by fans and stand with DJ in opposition to "loans".

Chester didn't sign the letter last week, unlike Darlington and 11 others, including Spennymoor, Gateshead & Blyth

https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/statu ... 71/photo/1

I think Chester, on the whole, were supportive of the letter, but didn’t sign it as there was some wording or issue (suspension of the league?) that they did not agree with.

Other than that, I think they’re fully against the use of loans direct from Sport England/DCMS. They did want to explore option 2, but that option has since been withdrawn.

[lo36789]

In reality it isnt actually new information.

The league was agreed to he suspended for two weeks. That will elapse on 6 February.

The key thing is the suspensions was to resolve funding / season outcome...that obviously hasn't yet been resolved.

[theoriginalfatcat]

In reality it isnt actually new information.

The league was agreed to he suspended for two weeks. That will elapse on 6 February.

The key thing is the suspensions was to resolve funding / season outcome...that obviously hasn't yet been resolved.

So why make an announcement that the league will restart? For National League read "Turkeys"

[Vodka_Vic]

So the NL may eventually have to try and punish clubs for doing something which breaks business laws?

[theoriginalfatcat]

So the NL may eventually have to try and punish clubs for doing something which breaks business laws?

I was thinking the same thing, and possibly try and punish clubs for not wanting to play in empty stadiums through the pandemic.

I can't see it myself, we'll see how things pan out.

[Wiseacre]

To quote Elton John “ It’s a sad sad situation and it’s getting more and more absurd “
Sums it up for me.

''And I think it's gonna be a long long time'' Till we get all these games played if there's a re-start of this season. What a carry on - I think we should scrap the season, everbody should from Premiership down. It doesn't feel good, given everything else that's unfolding in the world, that the governing bodies are behaving as they are. There's no quick fix to anything the way things are.

[spen666]

To quote Elton John “ It’s a sad sad situation and it’s getting more and more absurd “
Sums it up for me.

''And I think it's gonna be a long long time'' Till we get all these games played if there's a re-start of this season. What a carry on - I think we should scrap the season, everbody should from Premiership down. It doesn't feel good, given everything else that's unfolding in the world, that the governing bodies are behaving as they are. There's no quick fix to anything the way things are.

The premiership are not going to stop. They have spent all the TV monies already, so couldn't afford to repay the TV companies.

Its all about money to them -morals, ethics etc are long gone at the top of the pyramid, if ever they were there

[onewayup]

This whole issue is down to the national league management,
1) in not formulating a fair sharing of the 11 million.
2) that they the national league management haven't come up with the criteria that helped them make the decisions they did .
3) they are acting like dictators over trying to force loans onto already struggling club's who have no revenues to pay the loans back.
4) that leads to operating a club insolvent, which is illegal no C E O would put there club into debt as that would be suicidal.
The national league have not been accountable to anybody. Which is wrong ,they have to be accountable for their crass decisions, stupidly coming out with statements before consulting with members within their jurisdiction.
The national league management have been totally inept throughout this whole process.

[jjljks]

Spot on, onewayup.
If National League was manager of a club, they would've been sacked.
If NL was a business, shareholders would be demanding resignations.
Not even Donald Trump would pardon their criminal ineptitude over this issue.

[jjljks]

Spot on, onewayup.

[Vodka_Vic]

Interesting that the official website on rearranging the Chorley game says 'Should we restart playing#.

[theoriginalfatcat]

https://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/saturda ... e-9154597/

I wouldn't buy a car off him

[spen666]

Latest from Ollie Bayliss and letter from DCMS

https://twitter.com/Ollie_Bayliss/statu ... 05857?s=20


Don't see the DCMS moving to resolve this issue

[en passant]

When I heard the announcement that matches would restart on 6th Feb, without any additional information on funding, I assumed that the League had just jumped the gun on a Government announcement that a new deal on grants had been brokered. Having had no such announcement in the last 24 hours seems to indicate that no additional funds are on the table unless it is in the form of loans. The only crumb of comfort offered has been to offer to look at clubs that are in dire financial circumstances and potentially give a grant in they can pass though they eye of a needle of unknown criteria that you can bet on not being overly generous. As others have noted to take the risk of starting to play again, hoping that this may provide a safety net would seem unduly optimistic. Governments are not known for timely assessments of anything and even if a club were to pass on the criteria they set there is a good to even chance that any club in such a fix will go out of business long before the funds arrive.
However, a couple of random thoughts to go with the above.
Are the government and/or the League hoping that there are enough clubs that may be convinced to continue and that there is enough in the deal offered to persuade sufficient to give it a go, having started the season, and in some cases, feel that they might get a chance of promotion. After all football is a business where ambition often overcomes good sense and prudence.
Do they believe that there are enough clubs that are backed by reasonably well off chairmen who will be willing to dip their hands in their pockets. And do they resent the idea that where clubs are backed in such a way that public funds should be used instead of private ones. (Of course this point of view takes no account of the many clubs that are not funded that way, which may mean they don't care or that these are the clubs they would consider giving grants to).
Last thought, and following on from the above. If they consider that clubs with access to funds generated elsewhere should use these funds first before going cap in hand to the Government, would they consider that additional funds earned via cup games should also be used up before any grant is forthcoming? This would, of course be of direct relevance to our club, and would have the effect of negating any value Darlo had obtained from the two cup runs. Moreover it would make the backlog of fixtures harder to take, knowing that we might as well have forfeited in the first round and played more league games and not getting into the fixture backlog we currently face.
Just some thoughts