Season at risk of finishing early

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spen666
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by spen666 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:06 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:37 pm
spen666 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:27 pm
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:23 pm
If the season is ended, what happens to ST holders & 500 club members. It will put the club in a very difficult position.
Would any/ many fans want their money back. Think at this level and below the vast majority if not all fans regard the need of their club as being bigger than theirs.

A more concerning issue may be club sponsors who haven't got what they paid for. Again at this level, I think most club sponsors would be likely to let the matter go.

Not sure about headline sponsors like Vanaram
I think your right, I think the majority of fans wouldn't want their money back, but there would be a sizeable minority who wouldn't be very happy & sadly I think it would have an adverse effect on the BTB.

I worry for clubs in general next season because I think season ticket sales will be poor as people will say they paid this season and most did not get to see any games at all and therefore they won't buy next year until it is clear whether they will get to see their teams.

Even if fans are allowed back in next season, i can see capacities being greatly reduced, so again people are not going to be happy to buy a season ticket but potentially only get into 1/2 or 1/3 of games.

As you say for clubs like Darlington, the BTB will face a threat. For clubs relying on a benefactor- again funding may be a lot less available

I also think for all clubs commercial sponsorship will be harder to obtain as businesses struggle to stay alive

spen666
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by spen666 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:07 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:59 pm
spen666 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:32 pm
LoidLucan wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:18 pm
Wouldn't it be a great look for the NL if they expelled several clubs who said it was too risky for players and staff to go on without a proper testing regime and too risky to the financial wellbeing of the clubs to withdraw the grants that were seen as vital to their survival. And it is clearly a whole lot riskier now than it was a few months ago as the stats prove.


I think the thing that may cause the league to be suspended is the demand of clubs for testing. The cost of that is probably too high for the league to afford
I'm sure Chris Whitty, Patrick Valance and Matt Hancock would deem such a testing demand as being perfectly proper and reasonable in the appalling circumstances prevailing at the moment.

I agree on the need for testing - the problem is where does the money come from to pay for it?

jjljks
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by jjljks » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:12 pm

en passant wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:56 am
jjljks wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:48 am
Perhaps one of the things we can do as individual fans is lobby our MP to support DJ and raise with HMG the question of funding towards the rest of the season without fans, in order to comply with HMG's Covid restrictions?
Certainly worth a try as our local MP should have the ear of the government, although my experience of asking him to do things for his constituents rather than personal profile has not been a positive one.
Banged off an e-mail to Peter Gibson MP & await his response. Jenny Chapman was supportive of the club in our difficulties, so will be interesting to see if our MP Mr Gibson cares enough to take some action

JasonDeVos
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by JasonDeVos » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:25 pm

jjljks wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:12 pm
en passant wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:56 am
jjljks wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:48 am
Perhaps one of the things we can do as individual fans is lobby our MP to support DJ and raise with HMG the question of funding towards the rest of the season without fans, in order to comply with HMG's Covid restrictions?
Certainly worth a try as our local MP should have the ear of the government, although my experience of asking him to do things for his constituents rather than personal profile has not been a positive one.
Banged off an e-mail to Peter Gibson MP & await his response. Jenny Chapman was supportive of the club in our difficulties, so will be interesting to see if our MP Mr Gibson cares enough to take some action

Won’t go against his precious leader

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:52 pm

onewayup wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:54 pm
A Grant is given without a repayment.
A loan has to be repayable .
national league want the clubs take a loan repayable over a number of years .it's not difficult, it is a loan .not a grant as people are trying to make out..
I know I know roll: I had this last night, some people don't know their arse from their elbow.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:00 pm

Slough Town are cheesed off - taken from their Webpage.

"The directors of Slough Town Football Club sent the following email to Mark Ives, Interim General Manager of The National League last night in response to his request for feedback on the three options discussing during yesterday's meeting with member clubs.

Dear Mark,

We have this evening given consideration to the 3 options presented to us today.

We would support OPTION 3, which is, as you know what we have been suggesting for some time now.

Neither Option 1 or 2 make any sense from a business perspective and we are not prepared to put our club into a long term financially unsustainable position by taking loans or a grant which is repayable (which is in effect what Option 2 is).

Given the need for a speedy decision on the part of the clubs, we would expect that a similarly quick decision will be taken by the board and any suspension to be in place before Saturday.

By playing fixtures on Saturday, clubs will have to pay their players an additional week and in our case, incur the biggest travel cost of the season. As soon as the decision is made to suspend, we can move our players to furlough, thus avoiding further costs, If the decision is to suspend, it MUST be made immediately. As a club we will go as far as to say that we do not propose to travel to Eastbourne on Saturday to fulfil a fixture which could be meaningless, incur unnecessary costs and put our players at risk.

We will have a separate discussion regarding Saturday with the Fixtures team and also with Eastbourne, but our position is clear. The issue can be avoided, by making your decision prior to the weekend."
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

Darlofan97
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:19 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:52 pm
onewayup wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:54 pm
A Grant is given without a repayment.
A loan has to be repayable .
national league want the clubs take a loan repayable over a number of years .it's not difficult, it is a loan .not a grant as people are trying to make out..
I know I know roll: I had this last night, some people don't know their arse from their elbow.
Bit disrespectful!

However, as has been mentioned, it is not a loan to the club, it is a grant provided by the National League.

As a result, the National League is proposing to cut central distribution funding to repay their loan to the National League.

The two are linked, obviously. As without the initial loan there is no cut in funding. This option is unacceptable, which I think we are in agreement with. However, it isn’t, by definition, a loan as it will not be recorded in our accounts as a debt or liability. The National League will also not be a ‘creditor’ of the club.

It is, however, a cut to our funding received from the National League that will negatively impact future seasons and the wider league for the next 10+ years, no doubt.

I do see what you are saying, I’m not denying the link, nor am I denying what a shocking option it is. I can understand why some are calling it a loan, but in accounting terms it simply isn’t and, as such, has different implications than option 1.

Old Git
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by Old Git » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:21 pm

Every sympathy with Slough over this but one thing struck me their journey to Eastbourne is their most expensive away trip of the season. About 90 miles I reckon. Wow how happy would we be with that situation !

onewayup
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by onewayup » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:23 pm

It's a loan to the national league, who then tart it up as a grant to the clubs,for christ sake it's a loan it has to be repaid by the clubs no matter how or where they take the repayments.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:29 pm

Apparently Raj chooses option 2. Hardly a surprise with his record.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

eek
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by eek » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:42 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:29 pm
Apparently Raj chooses option 2. Hardly a surprise with his record.
I suspect that's because he doesn't understand the consequences of option 2 beyond this season.

Darlospike
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by Darlospike » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:59 pm

eek wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:42 pm
theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:29 pm
Apparently Raj chooses option 2. Hardly a surprise with his record.
I suspect that's because he doesn't understand the consequences of option 2 beyond this season.
Don’t think he will we be around to feel the repercussions.... I’d be very worried if I were a Poolie right now, after all he’s got form.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:10 pm

Exactly. He's got form for racking up debts then just walking away.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

joejaques
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by joejaques » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:12 pm

Offset the grant against what he reckons Poolie owe him, then leg it sharpish? :roll:
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Vodka_Vic
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by Vodka_Vic » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:27 pm

Concord Rangers refusing to play too, so that's 2 clubs.

lo36789
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by lo36789 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:51 pm

3.

Slough
Havant
Concord

Also 12 clubs in our division have requested immediate suspension

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by Vodka_Vic » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:15 pm

https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/funding ... the-league

High noon it is then. 29th Jan is next Friday.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:06 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:15 pm
https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/funding ... the-league

High noon it is then. 29th Jan is next Friday.
But before then is Saturday. This letter wants an immediate stop of play.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

real_darlo_85
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by real_darlo_85 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:12 pm

spen666 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:06 pm
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:37 pm
spen666 wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:27 pm
Darlo_Pete wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:23 pm
If the season is ended, what happens to ST holders & 500 club members. It will put the club in a very difficult position.
Would any/ many fans want their money back. Think at this level and below the vast majority if not all fans regard the need of their club as being bigger than theirs.

A more concerning issue may be club sponsors who haven't got what they paid for. Again at this level, I think most club sponsors would be likely to let the matter go.

Not sure about headline sponsors like Vanaram
I think your right, I think the majority of fans wouldn't want their money back, but there would be a sizeable minority who wouldn't be very happy & sadly I think it would have an adverse effect on the BTB.

I worry for clubs in general next season because I think season ticket sales will be poor as people will say they paid this season and most did not get to see any games at all and therefore they won't buy next year until it is clear whether they will get to see their teams.

Even if fans are allowed back in next season, i can see capacities being greatly reduced, so again people are not going to be happy to buy a season ticket but potentially only get into 1/2 or 1/3 of games.

As you say for clubs like Darlington, the BTB will face a threat. For clubs relying on a benefactor- again funding may be a lot less available

I also think for all clubs commercial sponsorship will be harder to obtain as businesses struggle to stay alive
Don't agree that BtB would be threatened next season unless those that have invested have a significant change of circumstances, at this moment in time I'll still be paying in. I can imagine that those clubs that rely on a benefactor may feel more of an affect should their business interests take more priority. I'd rather be in our shoes than under one person's rule in this situation.
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

Vokuhila
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by Vokuhila » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:31 pm

The lack of a proper testing regime (which is a newsflash to me as I'd always assumed there was one) is reason alone to can the season/never have started the season in the first place.

My six-year-old daughter and the rest of her class bubble are missing out on the education they deserve, while a similar-sized group of people and sixty-five others are being allowed to travel round the country, undoubtedly spreading the VID to some degree or other as they go.

My mind is blown.

EDJOHNS
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by EDJOHNS » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:26 am

Vokuhila wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:31 pm
The lack of a proper testing regime (which is a newsflash to me as I'd always assumed there was one) is reason alone to can the season/never have started the season in the first place.

My six-year-old daughter and the rest of her class bubble are missing out on the education they deserve, while a similar-sized group of people and sixty-five others are being allowed to travel round the country, undoubtedly spreading the VID to some degree or other as they go.

My mind is blown.
I totally empathise with that. I have a couple of grand children and 1 great grandson all missing out at the moment and when I chat to them on video it is clear they are all missing out on both learning and the energy they use up in school. I know everyone in schooling is doing the best they can but is does seem stupid that squads can meet up without the proper precautions while they miss out.

Quakerlad
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by Quakerlad » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:30 am

Completely certain that whatever the League decision DJ will do whatever is best for the football club. Grateful he is in charge as always.
Surely it has to stop completely, not suspend, otherwise just delaying a recurring problem.
Furlough the players and staff, and agree now that new season to start say 1 August when things should be a lot clearer and maybe even some level of fans allowed back in. Would give some certainty to clubs, players and fans and minimise costs for the clubs.
It’s not like the league is far enough on to honestly say we would have won the league, be relegated etc.
There again this lot who run things will probably do the opposite!

Old Git
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by Old Git » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:08 am

Quakerlad wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:30 am
Completely certain that whatever the League decision DJ will do whatever is best for the football club. Grateful he is in charge as always.
Surely it has to stop completely, not suspend, otherwise just delaying a recurring problem.
Furlough the players and staff, and agree now that new season to start say 1 August when things should be a lot clearer and maybe even some level of fans allowed back in. Would give some certainty to clubs, players and fans and minimise costs for the clubs.
It’s not like the league is far enough on to honestly say we would have won the league, be relegated etc.
There again this lot who run things will probably do the opposite!
Agree wholeheartedly with you. August is a realistic date for the new season given the rollout of the vaccine should be well advanced by then. Suspending the season and restarting not an option given that we would have a minimum of 32 games still to play. The only sensible thing is to cancel the season and plan for next season. As fans we have not been allowed into grounds for nearly a year so a few more months will be bearable.

jjljks
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by jjljks » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:28 am

Isn't it illegal to insist workers ply their trade in an unsafe environment?

quaker4life
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by quaker4life » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:59 am

Old Git wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:08 am

Agree wholeheartedly with you. August is a realistic date for the new season given the rollout of the vaccine should be well advanced by then. Suspending the season and restarting not an option given that we would have a minimum of 32 games still to play. The only sensible thing is to cancel the season and plan for next season. As fans we have not been allowed into grounds for nearly a year so a few more months will be bearable.
This ^

It's likely the shutout will continue until the end of the season regardless based on the murmurings coming out of HMG which haven't been encouraging to say the least.

Hopefully by August we'll be in a much better place, I expect restrictions will still be around by then but hopefully not as heavy as they are now.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly

EDJOHNS
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by EDJOHNS » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:10 pm

I would think what by August all the seriously at risk people will have had the vaccine along with a couple of levels lower so the most hardy will probably be the only ones left to vaccinate.
I would hope that by that point we are at least back to some sort of contact with others will be allowed so it seems a logical aim to me, and would certainly end the uncertainty caused by these "loans".
May have people wishing to ask for refunds on season tickets, but in Darlo's case I think this is a far better idea than even thinking of accepting the loan.
So glad the board have said so clearly we will not take that path.

lo36789
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:15 pm

jjljks wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:28 am
Isn't it illegal to insist workers ply their trade in an unsafe environment?
It illegal not to take all necessary steps to mitigate - which is effectively to operate in line with FA covid guidance.

You can't remove all risk from a workplace ultimately otherwise the construction industry would be finished.

norwich darlo
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by norwich darlo » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:27 pm

If the season ends what happens to teams in the Trophy and F A cup?

Mission Impossible
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by Mission Impossible » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:34 pm

Two week suspension of the league

My opinion
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Re: Season at risk of finishing early

Post by My opinion » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:37 pm

Two questions..(they may have been touched on earlier in this thread but I can't find them if they have)

One. If the second option is taken by the National league only,(National leagues north and south both ended).
Does the repayment of the loan still fall onto every team in all leagues.

Two. If option two is accepted by all three leagues, Will that give every club an equal share of the money or will the top league once again grab 60% of the money leaving 40% to the lower two leagues..

Sorry if I have missed the detail if it has been mentioned.

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