Darlo Uncovered

lo36789 wrote:

Darlogramps wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:08 am

lo36789 wrote:The basis of the complaint seems to be that you don't like kit 1 as a hooped option. That has then been translated as meaning that it is definitively a bad option, and that is a deliberate act to make people choose something else.

As it happens I actually like option 1. Others have said they do as well as a variation on a hooped pattern.

Oh, and the small fact the DFCSG board previously openly stated we should change kit, and tried to exclude hoops 12 months on.

And this time have restricted voting numbers.

But that is still orientated around "I don't like option one, therefore it is definitely bad". That has to exist as a basis to use a previous statement as validation of this being deliberate attempt to choose one of the other three.

No it isn’t. My primary reason for thinking the board is loading the process is 12 months ago they tried to remove hoops altogether without consulting the fans. Realising they’d bitten off more than they can chew they relented and surprise surprise, hoops won.

Now they’ve restricted the voting to only members of the DFCSG, for no good reason that I can see.

Also, your second sentence doesn’t make sense. Try rewording it please.

lo36789 wrote: I don't see how restricting votes is evidence of a deliberate ploy to move away from hoops. The options are still the options whoever they were presented to.

This is pretty simple.

The DFCSG members select the board, most of whom served 12 months ago, or have previously served on the board and returned.

Therefore the DFCSG members are more likely to be closer aligned to the thinking of the board (they elected them after all), than the wider and more diverse fanbase. Therefore restricting it to DFCSG members means the board is more likely to get a result they want.

And we know the board wants to change kit design because they tried to unilaterally and undemocratically remove hoops altogether.

Without doubt in my mind, while not rigging the vote, I think some members of the board have done what they can to make a non-hoops selection more likely.

Footifanreturns wrote:Well the vote will be in soon for the shirt design, personally I prefer the hoops or broken hoops but accept some do not like it, each to there own.

I will as usual buy several for my group regardless of whichever wins, as it is a way of helping the club. I have a wardrobe full of Darlo shirts that never get worn, no doubt added to again shortly lol.

I am just thankful that we have a group of volunteers that do in the main a fabulous job running the club.
Thankful that we as " Owners " of the club have the chance to vote for our new shirts, most clubs do not give that chance.

Of course there are the odd ones that think that vote has an agenda which is laughable.
I suggest the the more vociferous of the members on here run for office & take up the difficult & time consuming challenge of running the club. Instead of the continual bitching on here when their own views are not taken up.

As it has been suggested changes start from within with the democratic process that we have in place.

Well done to the Darlington Supporters Group for doing such a fine job, keep up the good work. Most on here do appreciate your endeavours to run the club.

Ah Chuckles, I see you’ve appointed yourself brown-noser in chief, denouncing any criticism like some tinpot propaganda spokesman.

Trouble is, your attitude encourages arrogance and bad governance. If no criticism is allowed, and no questions raised, then mistakes and bad governance continue and become more deep-seated. By allowing and engaging with criticism, then things work better.

Of course you can try stamping it out and denouncing anyone who doesn’t toe the party line, but there’s no recorded examples of that ever improving the situation.

People keep saying the board have answered the criticisms. I don’t agree, as they’ve not addressed why 12 months ago they attempted to abolish hoops altogether without consulting fans. And why they took such a partial stance on the kit design.

With that context, it’s not hard to see why questions are raised as to why voting is then restricted to DFCSG members, who are more likely to be of a similar mindset.

It’s childish thinking to say “You can only criticise when you’ve done it yourself”. I’ve never been health secretary but I can see mistakes have been made in the Government’s handling of the pandemic, for example.

So long as the criticism is fair, not abusive and justified (and I believe I have been). I’ve even been constructive and suggest reforms for next year to avoid this.

Your brown-nosing doesn’t do any good whatsoever.

I am not going to feed your vitriol, signs of a desperate man to throw out insults.
As I said before your posts are repetitive, argumentative & quite frankly boring.

Just to make the point that DFCSG membership/Owner numbers are heading towards the 900 number again. That means around 70% of our fan-base on a c1,300 home gate, for example.

Just if we're trying to paint the DFCSG membership/Ownership group as a "clique" or having a collective agenda, or - indeed - in cahoots with the DFCSG board!

And Owner numbers will only increase from here on in. I'm convinced (speaking personally).

Anyway, enjoy next season's shirt, whatever the result later on...

beatroute66 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:09 pm

Just to make the point that DFCSG membership/Owner numbers are heading towards the 900 number again. That means around 70% of our fan-base on a c1,300 home gate, for example.

Just if we're trying to paint the DFCSG membership/Ownership group as a "clique" or having a collective agenda, or - indeed - in cahoots with the DFCSG board!

And Owner numbers will only increase from here on in. I'm convinced (speaking personally).

Anyway, enjoy next season's shirt, whatever the result later on...

Great to hear Beatroute66.
Keep up the good work.

The Sash options wins.
Not my first choice but a well run vote off.

No toys being thrown out of my pram. I am sure some will be

Footifanreturns wrote:I am not going to feed your vitriol, signs of a desperate man to throw out insults.
As I said before your posts are repetitive, argumentative & quite frankly boring.

In that case, you must find yourself desperate Chuckles, given you only ever engage in personal jibes, rather than substantive debate.

I respond with insults to your insults in the first place. Seems you can give it out but can’t take it. You need to grow a thicker skin Chuckles.

Only 400 votes in the final, with the winning sash (the better design) winning with 250 (so a small percentage of the fanbase).

More than half the DFCSG members didn’t vote, so clearly aren’t bothered by the “perk”.

I hope next season sees a return to a public vote as these levels of engagement are poor.

I quite like the sash tbh. Darlo Plate.

I'll happily have the hoops back the year after though. Keeps all happy. I do think the hoops are our identity, but let's think of this as a wonky hoop.

Maybe the away kit will be hooped. The best one we've had in recent years is the red and black hoop imo.

Great choice in my opinion, hope it is out ready for the summer holidays as I hope to have one this year.
Looking forward to seeing the choices for the away shirt.. Which I am sure will lead to someone complaining
about the agenda for voting.

My opinion wrote:Great choice in my opinion, hope it is out ready for the summer holidays as I hope to have one this year.
Looking forward to seeing the choices for the away shirt.. Which I am sure will lead to someone complaining
about the agenda for voting.

Why would it?

The away kit vote last year was done properly.

It was the home kit vote the DFCSG board tried to influence by unilaterally removing hoops as an option, without fan permission.

Engage your brain please.

Loved that red away shirt with black hoops, felt like 10 Dennis the Menaces were creating havoc

My opinion wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:54 pm

Great choice in my opinion, hope it is out ready for the summer holidays as I hope to have one this year.
Looking forward to seeing the choices for the away shirt.. Which I am sure will lead to someone complaining
about the agenda for voting.

Surely only those fans who attend away matches should be entitled to vote to make it fair......................

Darlogramps wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:14 pm

My opinion wrote:Great choice in my opinion, hope it is out ready for the summer holidays as I hope to have one this year.
Looking forward to seeing the choices for the away shirt.. Which I am sure will lead to someone complaining
about the agenda for voting.

Why would it?

The away kit vote last year was done properly.

It was the home kit vote the DFCSG board tried to influence by unilaterally removing hoops as an option, without fan permission.

Engage your brain please.

: Gone fishing and got a bite .
New it would.

My opinion wrote:

Darlogramps wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:14 pm

My opinion wrote:Great choice in my opinion, hope it is out ready for the summer holidays as I hope to have one this year.
Looking forward to seeing the choices for the away shirt.. Which I am sure will lead to someone complaining
about the agenda for voting.

Why would it?

The away kit vote last year was done properly.

It was the home kit vote the DFCSG board tried to influence by unilaterally removing hoops as an option, without fan permission.

Engage your brain please.

: Gone fishing and got a bite .
New it would.

*Knew

Engage your brain please.

I've been busy selling my loft contents in eBay whilst the debate has filled five pages. I think it's quite something that the fans get to vote for the shirt design and I feel an open vote may have been abused. Citeh and Palace looked quite fetching in a sash style shirt and I'm not sure the history/identity discussion works for me. There was a period where there's only one hooped shirt in fifteen years. Next season's is a slant on 1889-90 perhaps and whilst we have almost always had hoops in the last fifteen years we've predominantly had shirts without them.
Sadly once again this threads become toxic. If people aren't happy with our board then I suggest you either contact them directly (my dealings with any of them have been friendly and helpful) and/or step up to the plate and put yourself forward. Quarters anyone?!

When I voted for the Board, I had no idea that I was an unwitting accomplice in a plot to overthrow hooped shirts. Perhaps your ideal shirt should be made part of a candidates election statement next time. That way we will get the Board we deserve.

don'tbuythesun wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:38 am

I've been busy selling my loft contents in eBay whilst the debate has filled five pages. I think it's quite something that the fans get to vote for the shirt design and I feel an open vote may have been abused. Citeh and Palace looked quite fetching in a sash style shirt and I'm not sure the history/identity discussion works for me. There was a period where there's only one hooped shirt in fifteen years. Next season's is a slant on 1889-90 perhaps and whilst we have almost always had hoops in the last fifteen years we've predominantly had shirts without them.
Sadly once again this threads become toxic. If people aren't happy with our board then I suggest you either contact them directly (my dealings with any of them have been friendly and helpful) and/or step up to the plate and put yourself forward. Quarters anyone?!

Excellent post. As regards an open vote you are absolutely spot-on. Friend of mine hasn't been to a home match for a couple of years and voted on the shirt last year because he was bored and it was something to do. Our other friend is a season ticket holder and went to every match and yet the two votes get counted the same? Also absolutely spot-on about contacting the club direct which I've done on a couple of occasions over the years and always had a response even though it may not be the answer I'm looking for.

Darlogramps wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:22 pm

My opinion wrote:

Darlogramps wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:14 pm

My opinion wrote:Great choice in my opinion, hope it is out ready for the summer holidays as I hope to have one this year.
Looking forward to seeing the choices for the away shirt.. Which I am sure will lead to someone complaining
about the agenda for voting.

Why would it?

The away kit vote last year was done properly.

It was the home kit vote the DFCSG board tried to influence by unilaterally removing hoops as an option, without fan permission.

Engage your brain please.

: Gone fishing and got a bite .
New it would.

*Knew

Engage your brain please.

Oops. My bad.
And this is the second time you have chastised me for mis-spelling the exact same word.
Never mind, I'll get over it.

don'tbuythesun wrote:I've been busy selling my loft contents in eBay whilst the debate has filled five pages. I think it's quite something that the fans get to vote for the shirt design and I feel an open vote may have been abused. Citeh and Palace looked quite fetching in a sash style shirt and I'm not sure the history/identity discussion works for me. There was a period where there's only one hooped shirt in fifteen years. Next season's is a slant on 1889-90 perhaps and whilst we have almost always had hoops in the last fifteen years we've predominantly had shirts without them.
Sadly once again this threads become toxic. If people aren't happy with our board then I suggest you either contact them directly (my dealings with any of them have been friendly and helpful) and/or step up to the plate and put yourself forward. Quarters anyone?!

All fair points - although as has been said already, just because something hasn't always been part of our identity, or tradition, it doesn't mean new identity and tradition can't be created and adopted.

I like the hoops because it's pretty much unique to us. It doesn't bother me if we have a few seasons without hoops. When I started supporting Darlo we were in a period of primarily white shirts with black sleeves or trim, so that was my first association with the club.

Like I said before, if it's black and white and not a Newcastle kit, I'm happy enough. I'll actually probably buy the sash shirt, haven't bought a home shirt for several seasons now.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Just to add weight to the posts by DBTS and BGA, last year's open shirt vote would have been promoted by DFC's official Twitter feed, which currently has 36.5k followers! Clearly a large proportion of those can only have a passing interest in DFC (at best). However, it would only take a small proportion of 36.5k followers to get involved in a shirt vote to significantly affect the integrity of the vote.

Good spot Maurice.

don'tbuythesun wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:38 am

I've been busy selling my loft contents in eBay whilst the debate has filled five pages. I think it's quite something that the fans get to vote for the shirt design and I feel an open vote may have been abused. Citeh and Palace looked quite fetching in a sash style shirt and I'm not sure the history/identity discussion works for me. There was a period where there's only one hooped shirt in fifteen years. Next season's is a slant on 1889-90 perhaps and whilst we have almost always had hoops in the last fifteen years we've predominantly had shirts without them.
Sadly once again this threads become toxic. If people aren't happy with our board then I suggest you either contact them directly (my dealings with any of them have been friendly and helpful) and/or step up to the plate and put yourself forward. Quarters anyone?!

Not going to happen is it.
If you want to join the board people get to know who you are !!

Darlogramps wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:28 pm

Only 400 votes in the final, with the winning sash (the better design) winning with 250 (so a small percentage of the fanbase).

More than half the DFCSG members didn’t vote, so clearly aren’t bothered by the “perk”.

I hope next season sees a return to a public vote as these levels of engagement are poor.

Real generalisation to say eligible fans who didn't vote are not "bothered" by the perk.

bga wrote:

Darlogramps wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:28 pm

Only 400 votes in the final, with the winning sash (the better design) winning with 250 (so a small percentage of the fanbase).

More than half the DFCSG members didn’t vote, so clearly aren’t bothered by the “perk”.

I hope next season sees a return to a public vote as these levels of engagement are poor.

Real generalisation to say eligible fans who didn't vote are not "bothered" by the perk.

Is it? Why?

The vote has been well-publicised and takes only a few minutes to do so. It’s not difficult. According to the board, this was what members wanted.

So why did more than half not bother to vote? Particularly when the DFCSG board made clear this was supposedly what members wanted. Yet a majority weren’t bothered enough to turn out.

As for those suggesting a public vote would be open to abuse, well it’s been run for nearly a decade publicly without issue. OK you’ll get a handful of other fans taking the piss, but nothing to affect the integrity, as Maurice Peddlety is suggesting.

Feels like people are making an excuse because they want to keep something exclusive rather than actually basing it on anything substantial. There are without doubt a handful of supporters on here who view themselves as “better” supporters than others, which is a troubling attitude to have, as it leads to self-centred thinking.

A drop of 1800 to 400 (so less than a quarter of the previous vote) is very troubling for a fan-owned and led club and the DFCSG board should take steps towards increasing engagement next year, preferably by returning it to a public vote.

Without seeing a full breakdown of the figures I'm not sure that 1800 isn't voting across all the shirt votes and not just the final? I suppose half of the eligible voters not voting perhaps indicates some of us have other priorities at the moment. If we're running away with the league I don't care if we're wearing three star tank tops. On the plus side we actually get a choice of four options and a chance to vote when Arsenal and Coventry fans were foisted with those horrible (in my view) zigzagged and chocolate brown creations!

Personally I don't think it should be a public vote. There's loads of people who only turn up to a match once a decade and are clueless about our club and our team. They shouldn't be able to influence kit. Season ticket holders and 500 club members could be included to open it up a little.

don'tbuythesun wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:38 am

I've been busy selling my loft contents in eBay whilst the debate has filled five pages. I think it's quite something that the fans get to vote for the shirt design and I feel an open vote may have been abused. Citeh and Palace looked quite fetching in a sash style shirt and I'm not sure the history/identity discussion works for me. There was a period where there's only one hooped shirt in fifteen years. Next season's is a slant on 1889-90 perhaps and whilst we have almost always had hoops in the last fifteen years we've predominantly had shirts without them.
Sadly once again this threads become toxic. If people aren't happy with our board then I suggest you either contact them directly (my dealings with any of them have been friendly and helpful) and/or step up to the plate and put yourself forward. Quarters anyone?!

Have we predominantly had shirts without hoops? If you go back through our history, it is clear that Darlington wore exclusively hoops for nearly half a century up to the mid fifties. If you started supporting Darlo in that time, it is fair to say that hoops were an intrinsic part of the club's identity. The next half century then saw a variation of shirt designs - often plain white, but also several appearances of hoops (the 3 hoops in the 60s/70s spring to mind). Since the Jack Hatfield hooped shirt appeared in 1989, Darlo's shirts have had a variety of designs (some good, some bad) with hoops being a recurring theme.

Hoops are interwoven into the identity of the club. But, of course, there is a limit, design-wise, to what can be done with a hooped jersey. Most football shirt designs these days leave me cold (probably an age thing - maybe I'm not the key demographic), so this isn't the hill I want to die on.

Enjoying the fact that your Avatar is a picture of a Darlo player not wearing a hooped shirt

don'tbuythesun wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:38 am

I've been busy selling my loft contents in eBay whilst the debate has filled five pages. I think it's quite something that the fans get to vote for the shirt design and I feel an open vote may have been abused. Citeh and Palace looked quite fetching in a sash style shirt and I'm not sure the history/identity discussion works for me. There was a period where there's only one hooped shirt in fifteen years. Next season's is a slant on 1889-90 perhaps and whilst we have almost always had hoops in the last fifteen years we've predominantly had shirts without them.
Sadly once again this threads become toxic. If people aren't happy with our board then I suggest you either contact them directly (my dealings with any of them have been friendly and helpful) and/or step up to the plate and put yourself forward. Quarters anyone?!

Good post & agreed.
Quarters in Black & White would be a good choice with a nod to our early seasons & quite unique as are the hoops, perhaps an option for next season.