Sports village

[lo36789]

Ah. So not where do people think our level is.

What is the difference between stagnation and naturally finding your level - wherever that may be?

[theoriginalfatcat]

When you find your level.

You maintain it.

By maintaining it you don't stagnate.

In my view that level would be the position that I put in my previous post.

How's that lo ?????

[poppyfield]

I would like to see the club approach the council to acquire 5 aches of the 42 aches of land it owns near the Arena , the council could still own the land as do many councils where football grounds sit,the club paying a peppercorn rent, this ensures the long term future of the site.
This would be a long term project, obviously it would take us some time , but like anything of this scale it would not have to be done all in one go.
The key would be getting the land , plans approved , the plan would include the ground, car park, 4g training pitch, club gym and physiotherapy unit, all done in stages.
Then the hard work of getting the project started. It would take us a number of years to complete, its 8 years since we started this fan owned journey 8 years!
It would be an ambitious yes,but we have to have a long term plan , if we don't i can see the club stagnating at BM

The hard work would not be getting the project started. The hard work would be sustaining sufficient funds for the project whilst simultaneously sustaining a football club which needs >£100k of cash injection from fans as it is.

Out of interest what do people distinguish as the difference between stagnation and "finding your level"?

Unless people genuinely think our aspiration to reach the pinnacle and win a quintuple Champions League, Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup, World Club Championship surely we would always "stagnate" at some point?

Your right ,( sustaining sufficient funds for the project whilst simultaneously sustaining a football club which needs >£100k of cash injection from fans as it is) It would not work.
I don't see it like that, it would have to be two separate streams with the same goal, football going on at BM as normal, a new group looking after the new ground project.
The first phase would be (after land acquired plans passed) raising monies to do the ground works, the selling of shares in the new project could be a starter , a bit like we have within the club at the moment, just an example, i'm sure grants would be available in due course.
I honestly do believe that raising money for a project like this , once given the go ahead would not be easy but definitely achievable, and what a fantastic project to be part of and involved in. It would be a bit like building your own house , once its finished you own it.

[Footifanreturns]

I agree Poppyfield.
Unless our management team have a plan B it looks as though our future looks bleak...

It seems some are happy to wallow at our current level, with a few good runs at the playoffs or a good cup run when we get them, we need more than that to grow.
All that will do over several seasons is for us to become also rans with no will or passion to move on. Basically become a " village " team.
If we do ever get to the play offs & I see no reason why we can't under our Alun's leadership. I doubt we could sustain a realistic place in the National League & any realistic fan would agree with that. It makes you wonder how many fans we would get if we were in the lower reaches of the National League as it would take a miracle for us to compete at that level. We would perhaps retain our hard core of 1,200 - 1,400 but even with better away team support you know when we get close to 2,000 it is not a great match experience at BM, especially if we want to encourage & keep the floating fans.
We all know we need reliable additional income stream & under our current location & set up we are doomed to languish where we are at best.

Hopefully we do have a back up plan & I am sure our Management team has looked at many options.
This is very academic at the moment until we know what is actually on the table at this time. It will be interesting to hear what other people think.

Obviously if we got the Council involved in donating or peppercorn renting us some suitable land we could then have a target.
Share Issues can raise some, grants if they are available & yes outside investment if we can.
It is going to take years but at least it is better to set a target & fail rather than wither away doing nothing.

[theoriginalfatcat]

Hopefully we do have a back up plan & I am sure our Management team has looked at many options.

I don't think this latest development would have been a surprise to D.J.

[Footifanreturns]

Hopefully we do have a back up plan & I am sure our Management team has looked at many options.

I don't think this latest development would have been a surprise to D.J.

I think & hope your are correct.
If he had access to the full MP plan & their fantasy plan. He have will have realised there would be no chance of getting all those millions in good times never mid Mid Pandemic.

[lo36789]

When you find your level.

You maintain it.

By maintaining it you don't stagnate.

In my view that level would be the position that I put in my previous post.

How's that lo ?????

Yep agree.

We are maintaining our current level whilst at BM - I'm not sure that instantly means we will stagnate is all.

Maybe an aspiration to be promoted to NL is our level, at least within our current accessible means.

[joejaques]

Out of interest what do people distinguish as the difference between stagnation and "finding your level"?

In National league 1 - having a spirited go at a play off place every other season season. A bit like where we were for years, except a league down.

League football for me, that will always be and should be the aspersion of DarlingtonFC

English lesson required?

Aspersion : noun
an attack on the reputation or integrity of someone or something.

[Ghost_Of_1883]

Maybe an aspiration to be promoted to NL is our level, at least within our current accessible means.

I'd agree with that.

We aren't a league club. We no longer have a league standard ground. We no longer have a league fan base (although our away support has "league" written all over it). The league will have forgotten who we are. This is reality.

We are a club that operates 2 levels below our old stomping ground, but lets not forget that we are 3 levels UP from the league we were dumped in.

We have made progress but need to accept that things have changed, and not to our advantage. There are far more bankrolled village clubs than there used to be.

Regardless of that, we are a big club at the level we are at, and although we can't compete with bankrolled big spenders we certainly still have a decent budget for the level, and should be having a play off push most seasons under a good manager.

Promotion to the National league and trying to stay there would be our short to medium term aim.

[theoriginalfatcat]

Aspiration..

[swadquaker]

Aspiration. The process of drawing breath

[quaker4life]

The fact the Arena is still standing to this day is nothing short of miraculous but now it really does look to be on more borrowed time, further to other comments made in the thread and this is in no way meant to be an anti DMP slur but what happens to it now is on them and I'd rather it stayed with them.

As far as I'm concerned and I've said it before its in the past and it needs to be left there it has become increasingly dilapidated in recent years looking at it now it's difficult to believe it has only been there for just shy of 20 years. It's desperately sad how its turned out but now really is the time to let it go, also as I've said previously I wouldn't have been opposed to moving into a smaller ground on the site but I would never accept a return to that cancerous white elephant.

We left Feethams a mediocre Division 3 outfit, we left the Arena as a Northern League club without a ground, team or manager and I'd rather not gamble the club's future on what would be a quick fix.

Does not the prospect of working with the council to develop Eastbourne and potentially building a stadium there seem to be the option .
There’s already facilities and different clubs located there .
It seems logical to locate DFC there too .

As a local to the area, I can assure you the chances of this happening are virtually zero as has been said elsewhere in the thread the infrastructure does not exist.

[Ghost_Of_1883]

cancerous white elephant.

The return of the master of hyperbole.

I'd go back to the Arena just to troll you. Dial A.

[quaker4life]

cancerous white elephant.

The return of the master of hyperbole.

I'd go back to the Arena just to troll you. Dial A.

And here he is the master of the message board, you realise in turn you would then troll yourself by going there?

I take it the A stands for Administrator?

[JE93]

As soon as the Corona Virus hit I thought this would be the outcome. From reading the article and what DMP wanted from the council, sounds like it was doomed even before Covid. I'm slightly glad in a way, I know the plan was to propose our own ground on site but I couldn't see how that was achievable and thought we'd just fall into a lull where we actually just played at the area again with no real hope of moving. I mean after all why spend millions when the ground you're in is perfectly graded for any league we could realistically play in.

One thing I am still interested in is the long fabled plan and costings of how we progress Blackwell Meadows to National league and even potentially football league standard. If we're talking £2-3million to achieve that then we might as well stay open to the idea of developing a different site in the town over a long period, especially if what is required at BM would mean tearing down what we already have and starting again. On the other hand of were looking at say £500k to get BM to NL standard then we need to be looking at if the agreement with the rugby club (and hopefully the relationship) can be improved to provide us the future value to support that investment.

[Old Git]

No wonder the SV is not going ahead if the front page of today’s Echo is correct. DBC is reported to be facing an 8 million black hole in its finances due to Covid. No chance they will risk investing in a fanciful scheme like that proposed by DMP.
We have a stark choice, either we try to develop BM or look for another site. Unless a miracle happens it is hard to see us ever being able to build a decent ground from scratch so we may have no option to explore the development of Blackwell Meadows with all the drawbacks that involves. In my opinion opting for a ground share with Mowden Park could be disastrous and we should avoid the Arena at all costs.

[jjljks]

As we are only tenants, not really our choice to develop BM. Earlier in this thread, there was a suggestion of creating a separate fund dedicated to the purchase of our own ground which seems very sensible. Once we get back to having fans at the game, then we should be kicking off the new fund.

[theoriginalfatcat]

Unless a miracle happens it is hard to see us ever being able to build a decent ground from scratch so we may have no option to explore the development of Blackwell Meadows with all the drawbacks that involves.

It would be ambitious, long winded and very hard but see poppyfield's post above.

[H1987]

I honestly don’t think that Blackwell is as awful as some people make out. It’s actually better than Heritage Park now (I agree it wasn’t when we opened) but the extra seats, the larger bar, the larger terrace... and it’s a short walk from Darlington town centre.

It comes down to our short to medium term goals. For me, those are to get to the Conference National. We can do that at Blackwell. The Football League would require huge investment wherever we go... both off the field and on it. It isn’t a realistic, short term goal.

I have said all along that I am massively opposed to this sporting village for plenty of reasons, but to keep it succinct - if the goal is to build our own small stadium, we can do that while playing at Blackwell in the interim. The Arena is a rotting rust bucket and a million times worse in terms of match day experience. I hope it is demolished and I detest the place. We don’t have to prop up a failing rugby club financially in the short to medium term because we do not need to be playing in the Arena to meet our short to medium term goals.

I hope this provides some clarity to the situation and we now work on our relationship with Darlington Rugby club into something mutually beneficial in the short to medium term - or alternatively decide to try and fund our own ground... but honestly, I think good luck trying to ask an already stretched fan base to find the 3 million quid or so we would need. 100-150k for another terrace at Blackwell so we can play in the Conference National is infinitely more realistic.

[EDJOHNS]

No wonder the SV is not going ahead if the front page of today’s Echo is correct. DBC is reported to be facing an 8 million black hole in its finances due to Covid. No chance they will risk investing in a fanciful scheme like that proposed by DMP.
We have a stark choice, either we try to develop BM or look for another site. Unless a miracle happens it is hard to see us ever being able to build a decent ground from scratch so we may have no option to explore the development of Blackwell Meadows with all the drawbacks that involves. In my opinion opting for a ground share with Mowden Park could be disastrous and we should avoid the Arena at all costs.

DJ has stated clearly that no more will be spent at BM while things are as they are. I fully support that.
IF, yes IF the council would be prepared to rent us a piece of land to build on and take a silly rent until in use we then have up to whatever time is left on the lease at BM to get up and running.
I am convinced that if we started a new fund for a new ground with the land already in our hands I have no doubt whatever that not only the fans who pay in now to keep the club going, but also some "lapsed" fans who see no way back to the FL as long as we stay at BM would be prepared to pay into such a fund.
I also believe that, even in todays money conscious world we would be better placed to attract investment from local companies in exchange for some sort of naming rights.
Is it not also correct that we could apply for more grant money from the FA etc. If not now then when the time has lapsed since our last grants.
I think it is being a tad short sighted and also slightly insulting to tell fans who have come up with so much over the last 8 years that there is "No way" we could raise the same again over a similar timespan to have our own built for purpose ground.

[al_quaker]

I can't see us raising the money for a new ground entirely from the fanbase in any sort of reasonable time frame. We've done superbly to raise what we've raised in the last 8 years. Is it about £1.3m? But we'd need far more than that for a new ground.

I can't see why we'd suddenly get a better deal with DRFC at BM than we currently have now that we have no leverage. So we're faced with the wildly unpalatable option of having to spend substanital sums at a ground we don't own, where we have a tenancy agreement which isn't great for us, and with landlords who don't seem to particularly want us there other than to prop up their finances. I personally can't see me putting any major money into future developments at BM unless there's a substantial change in our relationship with the rugby club and a realistic plan to get it to football league standard. A terrace behind the goal (which, as an aside, would do nothing to improve my match day experience) at a ground where we aren't even allowed permanent signage? No thanks. But replacing the clubhouse with a proper stand, with space for both clubs to run commercial activity and a renewed relationship allowing both clubs to prosper? Count me in. But without any leverage, only one of these outcomes seems realistic to me. Mind, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised when we find out what the infrastructure group have been up over the last few years.

[LoidLucan]

I think DJ has already said that building an entirely new ground from scratch (with clubhouse and artificial pitch attached) to further our ambitions would potentially involve tweaking the current model (with safeguards) to try to bring in private investment who would be paid a yield. Whether that would happen or whether any investors would be queuing up in the financial climate that is now quickly unfolding is another matter.

[onewayup]

I believe that David Johnson is a very astute man ,he is on the ball so to speak he's knowledge on the current situation is beyond approach, if and when it's decided where or how we move forward I,m sure that he would have a plan to put to the owners.

[jjljks]

Can't see any financial support coming from Darlington council and unless the £450k promised to Mowden Park rugby club by Tees Valley mayor for their development had some clause about inclusivity and diversity of sport, I can't see any money coming from that direction. OK, so Rishi Sunak has given a temporary boost through the changes to Stamp Duty but not sure that would help either. As ever, we will have to do most of it for ourselves, starting with getting a parcel of land somewhere within the A66 / A1M / A167 boundaries. There were plans to revamp Bank Top station ahead of the 2025 bicentennial and now that the cattle market is leaving, how about a stadium as an integral part of the renovation scheme?

[Old Git]

Surely the scrapping of the SV proposal is a major game changer for us as any leverage we may have had with Darlington Rugby Club is gone. I doubt very much the relationship between the clubs will improve as the Rugby Club have no incentive to change things. The pandemic and lockdown will have been a big hit for their finances but they will just continue to see as their cash cow and milk us even more if they can.
The long term goal has to be to try to get away from Blackwell and develop a new ground but really hard to see how it will be achieved. In David Johnston we have a man with business acumen and vision so lets hope he can find a way forward.

[Quaker85]

No wonder the SV is not going ahead if the front page of today’s Echo is correct. DBC is reported to be facing an 8 million black hole in its finances due to Covid. No chance they will risk investing in a fanciful scheme like that proposed by DMP.
We have a stark choice, either we try to develop BM or look for another site. Unless a miracle happens it is hard to see us ever being able to build a decent ground from scratch so we may have no option to explore the development of Blackwell Meadows with all the drawbacks that involves. In my opinion opting for a ground share with Mowden Park could be disastrous and we should avoid the Arena at all costs.

Yip, same at Stockton £7m deficit in government funding.


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[wizardofos]

Our best bet would be to gain control at Blackwell.
However that could be done..

[theoriginalfatcat]

Our best bet would be to gain control at Blackwell.
However that could be done..

Sounds a little sinister

[JE93]

DMP making sure that despite the best efforts of Covid-19 Darlo will get a Panto this year, by issuing the classic 'ohhh no it isn't (but we can't comment on open matters)' response:

https://www.mowdenpark.com/news/club-st ... 49031.html

[PierremontQuaker03]

My thoughts for what its worth
- the sporting village was a great opportunity to piggy back on but it was always an outside bet.
- We should stay well clear of the Arena.
- For most of the clubs entire history we have been tenants, to the cricket club and now the rugby club and when we did escape that noose we were given a white elephant
- from people I know, Darlington Borough Council is buying lots of site in Darlington town Center (old sports direct building, Northern Echo building) and redeveloping it - so they seem pretty flush with cash but as ever do not have any dialogue with helping the club
- We have now got a massive Amazon distribution warehouse and I wish we had help from the council as part of of the deal for them to fund the building of a stadium for the town, which would have brought massive goodwill for Amazon - like the shopping development in Bishop
- we are fast running out of sites to build a stadium close to the town centre, ideally I want it as close to the town centre as possible but it would be almost impossible now.
- What brownfield sites are available close to the town centre - the only site I can think of is near Dr Piper house and Escapades, but to clear that would be pie in the sky.
We have just to be happy at the moment we have a club and are in the town. Hopefully we will get some luck soon.