Did I read that correctly, nearly 20% interest?Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pmHas anybody read the recent accounts filed by Hartlepool United Football Club Ltd up to 31st July 2019?
Company owes £1.5m to Clarence 18 Limited due to loans provided (company solely owned by Singh).
Company also owes £1.7m to Sage investments Ltd. Paying an estimated £330k per year on this - but could be more based on certain performance-based conditions.
The club is effectively £3.2m in debt for anyone looking to take ownership or invest.
Singh wants investors, but who in the right mind would go anywhere near it with that level of debt before you even start with the fact the company is losing £850k per year?!
No doubt the figure owed to Clarence 18 Limited is now higher (as accounts are only up to 31st July 2019), I think that's a reasonable assessment based on the amount the company has loaned to the club over the last 2 years.
It has then emerged in the Hartlepool Mail that Craig Hignett is still chasing his severance payment: https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... ed-2552592
Both absolutely make a grim reading and provides reminders of 2012.
Raj Singh
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Re: Raj Singh
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Re: Raj Singh
No - you haven't. Although I am unsure if the outstanding loan to Sage Investments does accrue interest. Even worse for them if it does.MCFCDarlo3 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pmDid I read that correctly, nearly 20% interest?Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pmHas anybody read the recent accounts filed by Hartlepool United Football Club Ltd up to 31st July 2019?
Company owes £1.5m to Clarence 18 Limited due to loans provided (company solely owned by Singh).
Company also owes £1.7m to Sage investments Ltd. Paying an estimated £330k per year on this - but could be more based on certain performance-based conditions.
The club is effectively £3.2m in debt for anyone looking to take ownership or invest.
Singh wants investors, but who in the right mind would go anywhere near it with that level of debt before you even start with the fact the company is losing £850k per year?!
No doubt the figure owed to Clarence 18 Limited is now higher (as accounts are only up to 31st July 2019), I think that's a reasonable assessment based on the amount the company has loaned to the club over the last 2 years.
It has then emerged in the Hartlepool Mail that Craig Hignett is still chasing his severance payment: https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... ed-2552592
Both absolutely make a grim reading and provides reminders of 2012.
In a nutshell, HUFC Ltd owes Sage Investments Ltd £1.7m. HUFC Ltd pay around £330k off this debt per year as a bog-standard National League club, however the amount that they pay could increase from this £330k figure depending on performance related conditions. I have no idea what these are, but it could be related to a cup-run or being promoted to the FL.
This £330k would be deducted from the £1.7m they owe in the final year-end accounts. But this would be dependent on interest charges.
Effectively, if Hartlepool perform well then they have to pay off the loan quicker than the standard rate of £330k per year. Sage investments get a slice of any future success they may have.
That's as far as I understand it anyway. I'm no accountant! But on the face of it they have two huge weights around their neck, the debt to Clarence 18 Ltd and the debt to Sage Investments Ltd, which totals £3.2m.
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Re: Raj Singh
Thanks for clarifying, not looking good.Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 9:21 pmNo - you haven't. Although I am unsure if the outstanding loan to Sage Investments does accrue interest. Even worse for them if it does.MCFCDarlo3 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pmDid I read that correctly, nearly 20% interest?Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pmHas anybody read the recent accounts filed by Hartlepool United Football Club Ltd up to 31st July 2019?
Company owes £1.5m to Clarence 18 Limited due to loans provided (company solely owned by Singh).
Company also owes £1.7m to Sage investments Ltd. Paying an estimated £330k per year on this - but could be more based on certain performance-based conditions.
The club is effectively £3.2m in debt for anyone looking to take ownership or invest.
Singh wants investors, but who in the right mind would go anywhere near it with that level of debt before you even start with the fact the company is losing £850k per year?!
No doubt the figure owed to Clarence 18 Limited is now higher (as accounts are only up to 31st July 2019), I think that's a reasonable assessment based on the amount the company has loaned to the club over the last 2 years.
It has then emerged in the Hartlepool Mail that Craig Hignett is still chasing his severance payment: https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... ed-2552592
Both absolutely make a grim reading and provides reminders of 2012.
In a nutshell, HUFC Ltd owes Sage Investments Ltd £1.7m. HUFC Ltd pay around £330k off this debt per year as a bog-standard National League club, however the amount that they pay could increase from this £330k figure depending on performance related conditions. I have no idea what these are, but it could be related to a cup-run or being promoted to the FL.
This £330k would be deducted from the £1.7m they owe in the final year-end accounts. But this would be dependent on interest charges.
Effectively, if Hartlepool perform well then they have to pay off the loan quicker than the standard rate of £330k per year. Sage investments get a slice of any future success they may have.
That's as far as I understand it anyway. I'm no accountant! But on the face of it they have two huge weights around their neck, the debt to Clarence 18 Ltd and the debt to Sage Investments Ltd, which totals £3.2m.
Re: Raj Singh
It goes without saying they'll be accruing a high rate of interest on that loan.Darlofan97 wrote:No - you haven't. Although I am unsure if the outstanding loan to Sage Investments does accrue interest. Even worse for them if it does.MCFCDarlo3 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 9:09 pmDid I read that correctly, nearly 20% interest?Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 3:49 pmHas anybody read the recent accounts filed by Hartlepool United Football Club Ltd up to 31st July 2019?
Company owes £1.5m to Clarence 18 Limited due to loans provided (company solely owned by Singh).
Company also owes £1.7m to Sage investments Ltd. Paying an estimated £330k per year on this - but could be more based on certain performance-based conditions.
The club is effectively £3.2m in debt for anyone looking to take ownership or invest.
Singh wants investors, but who in the right mind would go anywhere near it with that level of debt before you even start with the fact the company is losing £850k per year?!
No doubt the figure owed to Clarence 18 Limited is now higher (as accounts are only up to 31st July 2019), I think that's a reasonable assessment based on the amount the company has loaned to the club over the last 2 years.
It has then emerged in the Hartlepool Mail that Craig Hignett is still chasing his severance payment: https://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/sport/ ... ed-2552592
Both absolutely make a grim reading and provides reminders of 2012.
In a nutshell, HUFC Ltd owes Sage Investments Ltd £1.7m. HUFC Ltd pay around £330k off this debt per year as a bog-standard National League club, however the amount that they pay could increase from this £330k figure depending on performance related conditions. I have no idea what these are, but it could be related to a cup-run or being promoted to the FL.
This £330k would be deducted from the £1.7m they owe in the final year-end accounts. But this would be dependent on interest charges.
Effectively, if Hartlepool perform well then they have to pay off the loan quicker than the standard rate of £330k per year. Sage investments get a slice of any future success they may have.
That's as far as I understand it anyway. I'm no accountant! But on the face of it they have two huge weights around their neck, the debt to Clarence 18 Ltd and the debt to Sage Investments Ltd, which totals £3.2m.
Equity firms don't just lend money for free. Why on earth would they
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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.
We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.
Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.
DC
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Re: Raj Singh
I can't be totally certain what rate of interest - if any - as I've not seen a document which specifies the rate.
Sage could have been mightily relieved someone was willing to come in and agree to pay if off over a period of time, the other alternative was looking like administration and if there was no buyer they'd have got nothing.
The amount owed wasn't taken out by Singh at the time - it was loans accrued by Sage in order to subsidise the football club.
Sage could have been mightily relieved someone was willing to come in and agree to pay if off over a period of time, the other alternative was looking like administration and if there was no buyer they'd have got nothing.
The amount owed wasn't taken out by Singh at the time - it was loans accrued by Sage in order to subsidise the football club.
Re: Raj Singh
The only way they would have got any money back would be any possible player sales, fixtures within the ground and scrap value for all the metal in the stands. The fans would have been left with a field but very little infrastructure.Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 9:49 pmI can't be totally certain what rate of interest - if any - as I've not seen a document which specifies the rate.
Sage could have been mightily relieved someone was willing to come in and agree to pay if off over a period of time, the other alternative was looking like administration and if there was no buyer they'd have got nothing.
The amount owed wasn't taken out by Singh at the time - it was loans accrued by Sage in order to subsidise the football club.
Re: Raj Singh
Fixtures and fittings within the ground may be owned by the council. The value of the club would only be possible player sales and that was only ever going to be a few 0,000s here and there it would never be millions.loan_star wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 8:28 amThe only way they would have got any money back would be any possible player sales, fixtures within the ground and scrap value for all the metal in the stands. The fans would have been left with a field but very little infrastructure.Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 9:49 pmI can't be totally certain what rate of interest - if any - as I've not seen a document which specifies the rate.
Sage could have been mightily relieved someone was willing to come in and agree to pay if off over a period of time, the other alternative was looking like administration and if there was no buyer they'd have got nothing.
The amount owed wasn't taken out by Singh at the time - it was loans accrued by Sage in order to subsidise the football club.
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Re: Raj Singh
In the event Hartlepool went in to administration, you could bet that they would have had a number of other creditors too. It wouldn’t have been to the extent of the money Sage were owed, but it would have diluted any return of the loan to Sage further. Yes Sage would have been a preferential & largest creditor, but others would get an amount too.eek wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 9:00 amFixtures and fittings within the ground may be owned by the council. The value of the club would only be possible player sales and that was only ever going to be a few 0,000s here and there it would never be millions.loan_star wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 8:28 amThe only way they would have got any money back would be any possible player sales, fixtures within the ground and scrap value for all the metal in the stands. The fans would have been left with a field but very little infrastructure.Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 9:49 pmI can't be totally certain what rate of interest - if any - as I've not seen a document which specifies the rate.
Sage could have been mightily relieved someone was willing to come in and agree to pay if off over a period of time, the other alternative was looking like administration and if there was no buyer they'd have got nothing.
The amount owed wasn't taken out by Singh at the time - it was loans accrued by Sage in order to subsidise the football club.
Like Divas said, I bet Sage thought Christmas had come early when Raj walked through the door.
There aren’t that many businessmen/women that would take over a failing business with outstanding litigation. He has already gone on record very recently to say he has put £2.1-£2.2 million in.
Re: Raj Singh
Loaned them of course.Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 9:48 amThere aren’t that many businessmen/women that would take over a failing business with outstanding litigation. He has already gone on record very recently to say he has put £2.1-£2.2 million in.
Thats one thing both Quaker Pete and I pointed out to them on the bunker when Singh was sniffing around, make sure he's not loaning the club money. Lo and behold, its all loans again.
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Re: Raj Singh
It.s on a chain around his neck!don'tbuythesun wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 5:59 pmEarly days but I wonder who has that golden share grasped firmly in their hand?
Re: Raj Singh
No the council only own the land, the club own everything on it. This became clear when they nearly went under as it was one option Sage had to get their money back.
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Re: Raj Singh
Absolutely.loan_star wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 10:04 amLoaned them of course.Darlofan97 wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 9:48 amThere aren’t that many businessmen/women that would take over a failing business with outstanding litigation. He has already gone on record very recently to say he has put £2.1-£2.2 million in.
Thats one thing both Quaker Pete and I pointed out to them on the bunker when Singh was sniffing around, make sure he's not loaning the club money. Lo and behold, its all loans again.
I saw a comment from one member recently, who said something along the lines of “don’t forget the huge millstone around our neck of the loan owed to Sage”.
They seem to be forgetting about the largest one, which is the money owed to the company currently propping them up. History shows that this money isn’t written off.
It makes you wonder if any of the fans or Loughlin have read any of the administrator reports from 2012. All are free and easy to view on Companies House. Loughlin in particular loves rolling over and getting his belly tickled.
Last edited by Darlofan97 on Sun May 03, 2020 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Raj Singh
Loughlin had his tongue up the backside of Coxall too, he's too blinkered to see anything bad about Pools.
Last edited by loan_star on Sun May 03, 2020 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raj Singh
It wouldn't surprise me for hartlepool not to be there for the new season start, every week it's costing him big time bucks.the plug is slowly rising.
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Re: Raj Singh
Now the Teesside Edition editor!
Still no mention of Singh’s comments making the echo???)
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Re: Raj Singh
He is good at his job that's how he got a promotion obviously Not that he licks arrrrrasJasonDeVos wrote:Now the Teesside Edition editor!
Still no mention of Singh’s comments making the echo???)
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Re: Raj Singh
Re: Raj Singh
I'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.
I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
Re: Raj Singh
Without the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.lo36789 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 amI'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.
I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
Re: Raj Singh
eek wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 amWithout the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.lo36789 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 amI'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.
I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
It may need the landlords consent to erect or demolish a structure on the site. It would depend on the terms of the lease.
Such consent is separate from planning permission ( although in their case consent or planning permission would be from the Council) and I think you are right that planning permission is not needed to demolish a property.
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Re: Raj Singh
Spen, you must let us know when you've set up the Spennymoor fans forum. I'm surprised you've not sorted it yet as you've had time during lockdown. I'm sure everyone here is eager to post their opinions on there.
Re: Raj Singh
He might seek to keep control of things to claw money back. Seems a bit far to think he'd deliberately dismantle the ground...eek wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 amWithout the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.lo36789 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 amI'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.
I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
Re: Raj Singh
Not so sure what he might do in a fit of pique remember the football share fiasco?lo36789 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 7:16 pmHe might seek to keep control of things to claw money back. Seems a bit far to think he'd deliberately dismantle the ground...eek wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 amWithout the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.lo36789 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 amI'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.
I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
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Re: Raj Singh
He might take a hostage? For no particular reason, just for a bit of one off fun....
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Feethams the Panda. 28 Jan 2012.
Now extinct!
Feethams the Panda. 28 Jan 2012.
Now extinct!
Re: Raj Singh
As an administrator, if there is nothing to stop me doing so and the value of the raw materials generates a greater income than other options you have no choice but to do so.lo36789 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 7:16 pmHe might seek to keep control of things to claw money back. Seems a bit far to think he'd deliberately dismantle the ground...eek wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 amWithout the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.lo36789 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 amI'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.
I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
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Re: Raj Singh
DJ got in spot on in his interview, without mentioning Hartlepool or Singh, or any other club for that matter.
Football clubs will always be secondary to a benefactor's main business.
Great if the main business is performing well; the football club is a millstone if it's not.
Football clubs will always be secondary to a benefactor's main business.
Great if the main business is performing well; the football club is a millstone if it's not.
Re: Raj Singh
That's the point the cost of dismantling an ageing ground will far greater than the saleable cost - basically he'd be worsening their debt as a result - he'd be struck off being allowed to be a company director as a result.eek wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 1:50 pmAs an administrator, if there is nothing to stop me doing so and the value of the raw materials generates a greater income than other options you have no choice but to do so.lo36789 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 7:16 pmHe might seek to keep control of things to claw money back. Seems a bit far to think he'd deliberately dismantle the ground...eek wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 9:39 amWithout the stand they won't meet the criteria for the league and I could easily imagine Raj demanding a large sum of money for the stand otherwise the bulldozers are coming in.lo36789 wrote: ↑Mon May 04, 2020 8:54 amI'm not sure - I think it still guarantees them a place to play no matter what happens.
I doubt there is much transferable value in the structure of the ground itself especially given the costs involved to actually do anything with it. And nothing else could be built instead without permission of land owner.
And from memory you don't need planning permission to knock things down unless it's a listed building or a pub.
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Re: Raj Singh
He could just keep hold of the stadium and charge them £100k a year to play there and then sell them the stadium for £1m if they could raise it, basically he can get some of his money back or they can go off and groundshare with Bishop.
As we know anything can happen.
As we know anything can happen.
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Re: Raj Singh
Poolies boost the budget up and running please support Raj and his empty care home beds ,sound familiar:
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Every contributor will be entered into a prize draw where two lucky winners will be selected for a unique Pools experience:
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- Then join Dave and the squad as part of the team as we travel to an away fixture on the team coach.
- Enjoy a pre-match meal with the players, the team meeting and a post match de-brief as you travel home with the team
Runners up prizes of signed shirt for 5 runners up, and signed team photo for 10 runners up.
Donate over £50 and benefit from an executive lounge experience for 2, access to the executive lounge on a selected match day with a visit from a member of the squad and post match de-brief from the manager.
Donate over £100 and benefit from a match day invitation to the Chairman's suite as well as a post match visit to the managers office for a drink and post match chat not only that but a chance to join the team for your own photo as you join them for the annual pre season photo shoot.
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