Retention for next year

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Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Retention for next year

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:27 pm

divas wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:45 am
Because it’s a well known fact that we exceeded the original playing budget set to bring in the likes of Hedley, Storey, Connell and Martin after the cup run. Since we’re not guaranteed that revenue next season I expect we’ll need to reduce the playing budget from what it is currently to somewhere near where it was at the beginning of the season.
But next season we are guaranteed some extra money that we didn't have this season - in the form of 2 x extra home gates (lets say 2500 people to be on the safe side at £10 average), and finally a chunk of the 500 club will expire, so perhaps 100 extra ST income. I know you're a bit skeptical as to how many will renew, but I think the majority of expired 500 clubs will, simply because you have to be a pretty strong fan to pay for a 5 year ST in the first place. We've also saved a full time wage in commercial.

So the discrepancy between this cup run season and next season might be virtually zero due to a combination of cost cutting and expected additional income as posted above.

Of course if we fall short on the BTB that would have an impact, likewise if we overachieve again.
Last edited by Ghost_Of_1883 on Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retention for next year

Post by jjljks » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:28 pm

Thomos sounds Greek to me. Where will he be now Brexit is done & criteria to stay? All depends on how many points I suppose😅

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by eddie-rowles » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:35 pm

MCFCDarlo3 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:18 pm
I think we need a big ugly experienced CB if we want to go up. Liangs the one to make way.

Still think Thomos got another year in him and thought Donawa would be bought by someone further up the leagues but hes not in the best form atm so that might scupper that.
Surprised no one else mentioned Laing, really disappointed in him this season, produces no decent tackles, often loses positional his sense, loves blaming hedley or storey for his mistakes(afraid to say anything to Liddle) and his long range passes more often than not go out of touch or go to no one. Still cannot see how he was or is better than Gary brown?

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by Vodka_Vic » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:37 pm

Does anyone know more exact numbers as to how many 500 club memberships gradually expire over the next 3 years?

Also, on Luke Trotman, he's going to set up home with his Love Island girlfriend in Windsor which is a rather long way from Darlo.

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D_F_C
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Re: Retention for next year

Post by D_F_C » Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:46 pm

If I had to be brutal (which the world of football is), I would say:

GK - if AA can line someone up then, I'd release both Connell and Elliott. If not, then retain Elliott

RB - I'd expect Trotman to go, Hedley to stay
LB - Liddle is excellent (Watson is likely to be a cheap backup for LB and CB)
CB - Storey looks good, but being brutal I'd want someone commanding alongside him, if we can get that then one of Galbraith and Laing to go. If not, then we'd have to retain

CM - Hatfield (no-brainer) Atkinson to stay
Wheatley (whilst people were dead against the rumour he is going, I think it could be true), Holness (I suspect that AA doesn't fancy him) to go

Wide - Rivers, Donawa, Thompson, Holmes to stay

Striker - Campbell, need another

I've probs missed someone

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by Vokuhila » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:12 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:37 pm
Also, on Luke Trotman, he's going to set up home with his Love Island girlfriend in Windsor which is a rather long way from Darlo.
Ah, Windsor's probably not far off being equidistant in terms of actual travelling time from Bristol and Luton, so that would make sense.

I got the strong impression that he's still very much planning on continuing his football career and there are loads of NL and NLS clubs in that neck of the woods.

I would love him to stay, not least as he's a great lad, but it's not looking likely, is it?
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H1987
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Re: Retention for next year

Post by H1987 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:17 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:37 pm
Being greedy I'd like us to keep everyone, because no one who has been fit for any length of time has let us down.

I think Trotman will likely move on as there is bound to be a more local club interested.

I think, sadly, that we will release Holness who I think is a fine player. But as with Bascombe, he has happened to be here when we've got Wheatley and Hatfield. But having said that we could lose one or both of those so maybe Omar still is in with a shout.

I don't think we'll pursue Connell because although he's decent enough, he's 34 and Elliott has proven himself to be as good if not better.

Sign a right back to replace Trotman or keep playing Hedley there. If we do sign a right back then Hedley can try and compete for a midfield place as well as at right back.

Sign Adam Boyes.

Hopefully Atkinson and Holmes will be fully fit and show why AA rates them so highly - could be potentially like having 2 new signings.

That should do, I don't think we should have too much movement in or out TBH, because the current squad - especially if all fit - is good enough to be challenging top 7.
I have a bad feeling he will do the same with Holness also, but I honestly think he's a very good player. If I were making the decision, I would keep him for sure. I'd be worried he will end up somewhere else and come back to haunt us if we release him. If Donowa has a year option on his contract (confirmed by AA, I think?), I wonder if Omar does also.

I'm genuinely surprised by the number of people suggesting to retain Atkinson... from what i've seen, I wouldn't play him in central midfield ahead of Hatfield, Omar or Wheatley, and I wouldn't play him at right back ahead of Hedley. Unless he converts to play centre back, I don't see a use for him. I'm also concerned about injury proneness. Holmes has had one major injury, it doesn't suggest proneness... Atkinson came with this reputation and hasn't exactly dispelled it. I'm not saying I dislike him, i'm saying he just doesn't really fit in the squad. I also suspect he's getting paid well. Holmes won't be on a terribly large salary.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:27 pm

You're basing Atkinson being injury prone on one major recurring injury which has been operated on. No different to Holmes or Trotman receiving major injuries IMO - except their were a bit more serious and longer term.

AA really, really, really rates Atkinson so he must be good. We need to get him fully fit and see what he can do.
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Re: Retention for next year

Post by darlo2001uk » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:01 pm

[/quote]

Surprised no one else mentioned Laing, really disappointed in him this season, produces no decent tackles, often loses positional his sense, loves blaming hedley or storey for his mistakes(afraid to say anything to Liddle) and his long range passes more often than not go out of touch or go to no one. Still cannot see how he was or is better than Gary brown?
[/quote]

Really? He is excellent with the ball at his feet. Agree he can improve defensively, but he is much better now that he is in a stable partnershop with Storey than he was earlier in the season.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by H1987 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:39 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:27 pm
You're basing Atkinson being injury prone on one major recurring injury which has been operated on. No different to Holmes or Trotman receiving major injuries IMO - except their were a bit more serious and longer term.

AA really, really, really rates Atkinson so he must be good. We need to get him fully fit and see what he can do.
It is fundamentally different, and you even highlight the difference in your own post. "Recurring".

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:05 pm

darlo2001uk wrote:
Surprised no one else mentioned Laing, really disappointed in him this season, produces no decent tackles, often loses positional his sense, loves blaming hedley or storey for his mistakes(afraid to say anything to Liddle) and his long range passes more often than not go out of touch or go to no one. Still cannot see how he was or is better than Gary brown?
[/quote]

Really? He is excellent with the ball at his feet. Agree he can improve defensively, but he is much better now that he is in a stable partnershop with Storey than he was earlier in the season.[/quote]ImageImage



I know I'm shacking my head at this, he is young enough and has loads of development and ability... God what do some fans want and expect for partime playersImage

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darlo_baron
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Re: Retention for next year

Post by darlo_baron » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:20 pm

HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:05 pm
darlo2001uk wrote:
Surprised no one else mentioned Laing, really disappointed in him this season, produces no decent tackles, often loses positional his sense, loves blaming hedley or storey for his mistakes(afraid to say anything to Liddle) and his long range passes more often than not go out of touch or go to no one. Still cannot see how he was or is better than Gary brown?
Really? He is excellent with the ball at his feet. Agree he can improve defensively, but he is much better now that he is in a stable partnershop with Storey than he was earlier in the season.[/quote]ImageImage



I know I'm shacking my head at this, he is young enough and has loads of development and ability... God what do some fans want and expect for partime playersImage

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
[/quote]

How dare the fan base dare to criticise a player, even if criticism is may be valid. We must lower all expectations because they're part time players.

In respect to Laing, in my view he has improved as the season has gone on. However, I don't think it is unfair to say he isn't amazing in the air, despite his size. It's also not unfair to say he has made big mistakes this season and could be a lot stronger defensively. He's also 27 next week, not some kid without experience.

Personally, I think there is better out there.
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Re: Retention for next year

Post by darlo_baron » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:21 pm

darlo_baron wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:20 pm
HarrytheQuaker wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:05 pm
darlo2001uk wrote:
Surprised no one else mentioned Laing, really disappointed in him this season, produces no decent tackles, often loses positional his sense, loves blaming hedley or storey for his mistakes(afraid to say anything to Liddle) and his long range passes more often than not go out of touch or go to no one. Still cannot see how he was or is better than Gary brown?
Really? He is excellent with the ball at his feet. Agree he can improve defensively, but he is much better now that he is in a stable partnershop with Storey than he was earlier in the season.
ImageImage



I know I'm shacking my head at this, he is young enough and has loads of development and ability... God what do some fans want and expect for partime playersImage

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
[/quote]

How dare the fan base dare to criticise a player, even if the criticism may be valid. We must lower all expectations because they're part time players.

In respect to Laing, in my view he has improved as the season has gone on. However, I don't think it is unfair to say he isn't amazing in the air, despite his size. It's also not unfair to say he has made big mistakes this season and could be a lot stronger defensively. He's also 27 next week, not some kid without experience.

Personally, I think there is better out there.
[/quote]
Craig Liddle is God!!

bga
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Re: Retention for next year

Post by bga » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:24 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:27 pm
divas wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:45 am
Because it’s a well known fact that we exceeded the original playing budget set to bring in the likes of Hedley, Storey, Connell and Martin after the cup run. Since we’re not guaranteed that revenue next season I expect we’ll need to reduce the playing budget from what it is currently to somewhere near where it was at the beginning of the season.
But next season we are guaranteed some extra money that we didn't have this season - in the form of 2 x extra home gates (lets say 2500 people to be on the safe side at £10 average), and finally a chunk of the 500 club will expire, so perhaps 100 extra ST income. I know you're a bit skeptical as to how many will renew, but I think the majority of expired 500 clubs will, simply because you have to be a pretty strong fan to pay for a 5 year ST in the first place. We've also saved a full time wage in commercial.

So the discrepancy between this cup run season and next season might be virtually zero due to a combination of cost cutting and expected additional income as posted above.

Of course if we fall short on the BTB that would have an impact, likewise if we overachieve again.
Two extra home games so 4 extra matches........wont the Players and Management expect to be paid more for these extra fixtures also?

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by al_quaker » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:25 pm

I find the timing of this thread a little bizarre to be honest - we are still in the hunt for the playoffs with our best team in a number of years. Yes if we want to push on again next season I'm sure there will be some changes, but personally I'm not sure now is the perfect time for people to be speculating about which players are and aren't good enough for that, all things considering.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by lo36789 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:49 pm

H1987 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:17 pm
I'm genuinely surprised by the number of people suggesting to retain Atkinson... from what i've seen, I wouldn't play him in central midfield ahead of Hatfield, Omar or Wheatley, and I wouldn't play him at right back ahead of Hedley. Unless he converts to play centre back, I don't see a use for him. I'm also concerned about injury proneness.
Not sure why you think Atkinson will be getting more than Holmes like?

I think everyone has pretty much said that they thing Armstrong is a bit Atkinson fan, and that he probably knows his players better than we do. It's a prediction that Atkinson will be kept because of this over anything else.

I expect release / retention lists to be announced sort of May time (isn't that normal) so still a way to go yet.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by PierremontQuaker03 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:03 pm

I'm surprised Wheatley gets as much praise as he does - yes he is a very good footballer - but if we are looking for promotion next season we need goals from midfield. We have Hatfield who is a workhorse but we need a goal scoring midfielder to play along side him. At the moment we are playing one up top so we have an extra midfielder which is where Wheatley slots in. Look at our stats - we don't score enough goals.
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Re: Retention for next year

Post by Darlo_Rob » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:59 pm

Wheatley is a defensive midfielder his job isn’t to score goals. That’s not to say he won’t chip in with 1-2, but his job is to sit in front of the back 4. Armstrong plays with a defensive midfielder, so unless he changes his style of play, where stuck with the useless lump of lard, who happens to be one of our best players.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by H1987 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:04 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:49 pm
H1987 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:17 pm
I'm genuinely surprised by the number of people suggesting to retain Atkinson... from what i've seen, I wouldn't play him in central midfield ahead of Hatfield, Omar or Wheatley, and I wouldn't play him at right back ahead of Hedley. Unless he converts to play centre back, I don't see a use for him. I'm also concerned about injury proneness.
Not sure why you think Atkinson will be getting more than Holmes like?

I think everyone has pretty much said that they thing Armstrong is a bit Atkinson fan, and that he probably knows his players better than we do. It's a prediction that Atkinson will be kept because of this over anything else.

I expect release / retention lists to be announced sort of May time (isn't that normal) so still a way to go yet.
Because he was a pro until he joined us.

Even when he was with Blyth he was off to Iceland each year to play professional football, and was a pro at Carlisle before.

Holmes was a kid released young by Newcastle and has never played professional football. I'd say it's a fairly decent bet that one is paid more than the other. (Obviously, this is guesswork, but it seems reasonable to me).

But, all that aside, I'm just not quite sure where he fits in the team. I've no issue if the wages fit and AA thinks he's worth it, but it wouldn't be my call personally. What I would do, and what AA will do are two different things, I am sure.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by lo36789 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:07 pm

I'll be honest I would expect an u23 at Newcastle to be earning more than someone at Carlisle but I don't really know after that point it is all a bit of a guess.

You don't but I think the perspective is that Armstrong probably does and see him as pivotal.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:39 pm

H1987 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:49 pm
H1987 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:17 pm
I'm genuinely surprised by the number of people suggesting to retain Atkinson... from what i've seen, I wouldn't play him in central midfield ahead of Hatfield, Omar or Wheatley, and I wouldn't play him at right back ahead of Hedley. Unless he converts to play centre back, I don't see a use for him. I'm also concerned about injury proneness.
Not sure why you think Atkinson will be getting more than Holmes like?

I think everyone has pretty much said that they thing Armstrong is a bit Atkinson fan, and that he probably knows his players better than we do. It's a prediction that Atkinson will be kept because of this over anything else.

I expect release / retention lists to be announced sort of May time (isn't that normal) so still a way to go yet.
Because he was a pro until he joined us.

Even when he was with Blyth he was off to Iceland each year to play professional football, and was a pro at Carlisle before.

Holmes was a kid released young by Newcastle and has never played professional football. I'd say it's a fairly decent bet that one is paid more than the other. (Obviously, this is guesswork, but it seems reasonable to me).

But, all that aside, I'm just not quite sure where he fits in the team. I've no issue if the wages fit and AA thinks he's worth it, but it wouldn't be my call personally. What I would do, and what AA will do are two different things, I am sure.
AA has done little wrong so far and whatever he decides will do for me.He knows the players and what they can and cannot do, let's just leave it at that.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by LoidLucan » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:00 pm

I expect that pretty much all of the ex-Blyth players will be with us next season.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by H1987 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:54 pm

QUAKERMAN2 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:39 pm
H1987 wrote:
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:49 pm
H1987 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:17 pm
I'm genuinely surprised by the number of people suggesting to retain Atkinson... from what i've seen, I wouldn't play him in central midfield ahead of Hatfield, Omar or Wheatley, and I wouldn't play him at right back ahead of Hedley. Unless he converts to play centre back, I don't see a use for him. I'm also concerned about injury proneness.
Not sure why you think Atkinson will be getting more than Holmes like?

I think everyone has pretty much said that they thing Armstrong is a bit Atkinson fan, and that he probably knows his players better than we do. It's a prediction that Atkinson will be kept because of this over anything else.

I expect release / retention lists to be announced sort of May time (isn't that normal) so still a way to go yet.
Because he was a pro until he joined us.

Even when he was with Blyth he was off to Iceland each year to play professional football, and was a pro at Carlisle before.

Holmes was a kid released young by Newcastle and has never played professional football. I'd say it's a fairly decent bet that one is paid more than the other. (Obviously, this is guesswork, but it seems reasonable to me).

But, all that aside, I'm just not quite sure where he fits in the team. I've no issue if the wages fit and AA thinks he's worth it, but it wouldn't be my call personally. What I would do, and what AA will do are two different things, I am sure.
AA has done little wrong so far and whatever he decides will do for me.He knows the players and what they can and cannot do, let's just leave it at that.

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I’m not criticising him, or trying to second guess him. The point of the thread was to discuss who *you* would retain and who you would let go, based on personal opinions and judgement. I’m fully behind the manager based on everything so far.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by H1987 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:04 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:07 pm
I'll be honest I would expect an u23 at Newcastle to be earning more than someone at Carlisle but I don't really know after that point it is all a bit of a guess.

You don't but I think the perspective is that Armstrong probably does and see him as pivotal.
It’s guesswork yes, but I’d also suggest Atkinson was probably signed with being a regular starter in mind... was Holmes? I’m not sure. I have a feeling if he were fit he would’ve been a squad option, and his form would’ve dictated opportunities. I wonder if he were fit we might not have seen as much of Donowa.

Atkinson’s been on the bench a bit lately but there’s no real suggestion of him making the starting XI.

We’re stacked in central midfield, and imo, blessed with some of the best options in the division, yet have weaknesses elsewhere. Notably up top. If i were the one making the decision, I’d retain Hatfield, Wheatley and Omar, and use the funds elsewhere.

It’s not my decision of course, but that’s what I’d do.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by Spyman » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:13 pm

Exactly what I was about to say. Donawa quite possibly never would've signed had Holmes not got injured - I think he was only on trial until that point. There's a chance we might cash in on Donawa at some stage which would then open up a slot for Holmes again.

I think Atkinson's versatility, if he can stay fit, is what marks him out as worth keeping as he can cover a few positions.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by D_F_C » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:31 pm

H1987 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:04 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:07 pm
I'll be honest I would expect an u23 at Newcastle to be earning more than someone at Carlisle but I don't really know after that point it is all a bit of a guess.

You don't but I think the perspective is that Armstrong probably does and see him as pivotal.
It’s guesswork yes, but I’d also suggest Atkinson was probably signed with being a regular starter in mind... was Holmes? I’m not sure. I have a feeling if he were fit he would’ve been a squad option, and his form would’ve dictated opportunities. I wonder if he were fit we might not have seen as much of Donowa.

Atkinson’s been on the bench a bit lately but there’s no real suggestion of him making the starting XI.

We’re stacked in central midfield, and imo, blessed with some of the best options in the division, yet have weaknesses elsewhere. Notably up top. If i were the one making the decision, I’d retain Hatfield, Wheatley and Omar, and use the funds elsewhere.

It’s not my decision of course, but that’s what I’d do.
Whilst I understand what you're trying to say, one of your earlier threads said that you didn't think much of Atkinson based on what you've seen. What have you seen of him. I bet his time on the pitch hasn't been more than 150 mins, and some of that will have been when he's been injured.

I'd expect we'll see more of him towards the end of the season, especially if the playoffs are out of sight. Remember, he can cover RB and CB if needed. He slotted into a back 5 against Guiseley and did well

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by moz1963 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:14 pm

Can't believe this is being discussed with so many games to play? :shock:

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by jjljks » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:34 pm

Pretty sure the title of this thread should have been 'Retention for next season' not 2021

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by Breedon » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:23 pm

Agree with most. Would let Laing go and hang on to Trotman if we can, but if he gets an offer from higher up or ends up being a side celebrity after Love Island so wants to be closer to home we can make our peace with that.

Tez and Thommo are legends but I'd be pulling them in and seeing how they'd feel about more than likely not being first choice next season because that's the reality we're looking at if we're having a serious go next season.

I think we need to be upgrading on Tez and Laing in terms of our second CB to play next to Storey who IMO is our best player there. Also would look to upgrade on Martin and Reid with a physical target man who will do the job Reid does at his best with Campbell up top, but better/consistently.

The team we have is a very solid NLN side and potential fringe playoff contenders, but if we're looking to be serious promotion contenders next season, which Alun has always said is the aim, we probably need to upgrade the decent but can be hit and miss lads to quality, consistent NLN players. Not many tweaks needed, but a few I'd say. A solid first choice keeper who AA will start week in week out, a quality CB and a quality target man with a couple of bodies on the cheap to replace the depth of the lads who move on doesn't seem unreasonable. Hate saying this because I really like everyone we have at the club, but you've got to leave sentiment at the door sometimes haven't you.

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Re: Retention for next year

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:57 pm

Breedon wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:23 pm
Agree with most. Would let Laing go and hang on to Trotman if we can, but if he gets an offer from higher up or ends up being a side celebrity after Love Island so wants to be closer to home we can make our peace with that.

Tez and Thommo are legends but I'd be pulling them in and seeing how they'd feel about more than likely not being first choice next season because that's the reality we're looking at if we're having a serious go next season.

I think we need to be upgrading on Tez and Laing in terms of our second CB to play next to Storey who IMO is our best player there. Also would look to upgrade on Martin and Reid with a physical target man who will do the job Reid does at his best with Campbell up top, but better/consistently.

The team we have is a very solid NLN side and potential fringe playoff contenders, but if we're looking to be serious promotion contenders next season, which Alun has always said is the aim, we probably need to upgrade the decent but can be hit and miss lads to quality, consistent NLN players. Not many tweaks needed, but a few I'd say. A solid first choice keeper who AA will start week in week out, a quality CB and a quality target man with a couple of bodies on the cheap to replace the depth of the lads who move on doesn't seem unreasonable. Hate saying this because I really like everyone we have at the club, but you've got to leave sentiment at the door sometimes haven't you.
I agree with most of that but quite happy with Elliott in net and Reid looks decent and will improve I think.

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