H1987 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:05 pm
This really isn't that difficult to grasp. Hard standing is 4 deep. If you build a 12 step terrace, that's 8 people more deep. So lets say you have an area of 400 hard standing, with the 12 step terrace it can now hold those original 400 in the front 4 rows, plus another 800 behind them who previously could not fit or be counted towards capacity. This goes directly onto the capacity the deeper you make the terrace. It's not difficult to get your head around. A 12 step terrace is not particularly large. The old tinshed was 13. Maybe you need to make it a 15 step terrace, even if you do - that is not that big a terrace. The old south stand at Feethams must've been about 25 for christs sakes.
But it's not as simple as that. So I really don't know why you are talking about "this really isn't that difficult to grasp", and "it's not difficult to get your head around" as if I'm some numpty with half of the intelligence of yourself.
When people talk about hard standing being based on 4 men deep, that's as a simple guide only. It isn't based on 4 men deep, it's based on people per metre squared x one or two other other factors to make the capacity calculation, and it's the same for terracing.
If it was as simple as that, then if the open end holds c700 at 4 men deep then the tin shed (8 steps) should hold c1400. It doesn't. It holds 1,000.
So when you are talking about a 1,000 capacity terrace in the open end (you said this not me), it is being built on roughly on 450 hard standing capacity if it occupies 2/3rd of the width behind the goal. This would only give an increase of 550 and not even get us to 4,000.
Nobody mentioned how many steps this terrace would be, not you or I - I'd guess 12 at 2/3rds width. But to get to 4,000+ we'd need a terrace which held more than 1,000.
You cannot make any rational argument that Blackwell Meadows cannot be expanded beyond 4,000.
I didn't say it couldn't be. It obviously can be (providing we don't lose the clubhouse side hard standing capacity), but what I'm saying is that it probably won't be as easy or as cheap as you expect.
As for hard standing, it can be converted simply with additional standing barriers to there is a walkway around the pitch. The idea that we'd lose half of the ground if we went up is a total nonsense statement. Just look at some of the existing clubs in the conference national. Maidenhead, Chorley, Harrogate, Dover, Sutton and a bunch of others all have these areas. I've been to Sutton, it's crapper than Blackwell.
Well I hope you're right on this one and that simply erecting another barrier will do the job regarding the hard standing.
The idea that us needing to build a 12-15 step terrace at the open end is unachievable or going to run to the cost of millions is just absurd. It can literally be concrete terracing with suitable crush barriers. It doesn't even need a roof to quality right now.
No one said it was unachievable, so who are you even arguing with? My concern was that actually a 1000 terrace wouldn't get us to 4,000 on it's own. Yes we could build a bigger one, but again my concern was about losing the hard standing capacity.
but seriously, the existing ground was constructed for far less than a million, and a major cost has been that these are all covered stands. Building a modest, open terrace does not run to massive expense. There are plenty of football clubs with far less than us who manage it.
Even Bishop's ground cost £2m. There was already the clubhouse, floodlights, pitch etc at BM before we moved in. As the stand cost in the region of 300k, and we put new interior fence all around, put new exterior fence all around, put hard standing all around, rebuilt the tinshed, installed a new pa system, lights, turnstiles etc - and then the building of the changing rooms etc (though that might have been the rugby clubs cost), and the car park ad barriers (council I think) - less than a million? I doubt it.
If you want to argue about the football league, then fine, i accept the difficulties in developing Blackwell for the Football League. It would be expensive and basically involve tearing down what we have built, and in such circumstances I could see an argument for ground sharing at the Arena - and i mean literally if we were in a position that we would not be promoted if we didn't agree to play there the following year. Not that we thought we might be.
End of the day our ambition is to return to the football league. I don't think it will happen in my life time unless we get a freak season, but that's only my opinion. However unrealistic our ambition may seem right now, it is the goal and we need to be looking at the infrastructure practicalities based on that goal - ie 5000 capacity ground with 2000 seats, no placcy pitch, better income streams from the ground etc.
I am baffled and honestly very frustrated that some people seem to want to behave like we're a football league club again. Dreaming above our station got us into a horrible mess before, and some people want to repeat it!? Madness.
It is not madness to dare to dream. No one is behaving like we're a football league club either.
Also, I note that you didn't make any comment about our security at BM. What assurances do we have that the rugby club won't tire of us and kick us out when they reach the point where we are not needed.
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)