Simply not good enough

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PhilD
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Simply not good enough

Post by PhilD » Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:49 pm

I was at Leamington yesterday and Brackley a couple of weeks back. Frustration doesn't cover half of it. I'm not too sure where I start? Since the first Walsall game we have been pathetic. Little pockets of decent play here and there - but a Manager and team devoid of tactics, unable to change the structure of the play or adapt to the style of the opposition. It was probably 10 minutes before the end of the game before we had a shot. We looked disjointed, disorganised, out muscled and outplayed.

It was cold and miserable last night; field in the middle of nowhere. A poor, poor night.

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Vodka_Vic » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:09 pm

Brackley away we were saving ourselves for the Walsall replay.
Walsall at home we matched League 2 opposition
We beat Gainsborough.
Telford first half we were excellent.
I agree the last game and a half we have been poor, but kind of suspected a hiding after a 4 1/2 hour midweek trip with part time players.
If we don't compete on Saturday and are meekly rolled over then I might start getting concerned given our Christmas and New Year fixtures.

LoidLucan
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by LoidLucan » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:21 pm

Vic's assessment of recent games is a much more balanced, fair and accurate one although it does sound as though last night's performance was desperately disappointing.

Darlogramps
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Simply not good enough

Post by Darlogramps » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:57 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:Brackley away we were saving ourselves for the Walsall replay.
Walsall at home we matched League 2 opposition
We beat Gainsborough.
Telford first half we were excellent.
I agree the last game and a half we have been poor, but kind of suspected a hiding after a 4 1/2 hour midweek trip with part time players.
If we don't compete on Saturday and are meekly rolled over then I might start getting concerned given our Christmas and New Year fixtures.
This is very fair, but ultimately the bright spots mean little when results are bad.

The original post is a tad OTT with the criticism in my view and I don’t think it’s as bad as some are making out. We clearly haven’t been pathetic in every game since Walsall away.

It’s quite interesting reading PhilD’s post history.

He’s not posted in 10 years. The previous 22 of his posts were all negative about the team. Now of course he’s free to post what he likes and he’s perfectly entitled to be negative - particularly when it’s backed up and there’s justification.

But it is interesting how bad runs encourage more comment and discussion than positive ones.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Darlo_Pete
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:05 pm

I agree our recent downturn in form is worrying, but I will be at all the league games over the festive period, supporting the team & hoping that we can cheer our team onto to getting some results to lift us away from the relegation zone.

quakersfan
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by quakersfan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:10 am

We need to get a decent run going as sub 1100 attendance will no don’t make finances difficult.

jjljks
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by jjljks » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:36 am

quakersfan wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:10 am
We need to get a decent run going as sub 1100 attendance will no don’t make finances difficult.
Think this needs some editing. That's the trouble with very early morning posts.

Wiseacre
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Wiseacre » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:13 pm

It may not have been good enough in the last game and a half but there's nothing simple about it, as others have pointed out with issues like injuries and options in attack. I think we're a long way from the shambles of last year and even if the season finishes with Quakers below half-way it will be very different from Tommy's tenure. I blew hot and cold with him according to results but Armstrong inspires faith. Given the difficulties he's done well and this should be borne in mind if we limp through the next month. It's hard settling for jam tomorrow but Lewis Carroll knew his football and that bread cast upon the water comes back buttered toast. It'll come right if we hold onto the longer view.

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D_F_C
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by D_F_C » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:40 pm

I think most fans have conceded that it's so much better than last year. There is a hint of disappointment that we aren't higher up the table with more points, but we certainly aren't a million miles away. I'd say a CF and CB would make a massive difference. Pretty much like every player we have which is more than I can say for last year

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:34 pm

Wiseacre wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:13 pm
It's hard settling for jam tomorrow but Lewis Carroll knew his football and that bread cast upon the water comes back buttered toast.
Very astute but I think you mean Andy Carroll.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Yarblockos
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Yarblockos » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:34 pm

Wiseacre wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:13 pm
It may not have been good enough in the last game and a half but there's nothing simple about it, as others have pointed out with issues like injuries and options in attack. I think we're a long way from the shambles of last year and even if the season finishes with Quakers below half-way it will be very different from Tommy's tenure. I blew hot and cold with him according to results but Armstrong inspires faith. Given the difficulties he's done well and this should be borne in mind if we limp through the next month. It's hard settling for jam tomorrow but Lewis Carroll knew his football and that bread cast upon the water comes back buttered toast. It'll come right if we hold onto the longer view.
The problems with the team aren't really that different from the beginning of the season, looking decent at home but shipping lots of goals away from home. It was pointed out then that Campbell wasn't a striker and he still isn't. O'Neill had really started to come into form and his loss has left us a bit exposed.

I thought the team had a good work ethic, but it seems like they have been unable to lift themselves since Walsall, clearly the challenge of playing against EFL professionals was a big motivator and AA seems to have lost the ability to lift them since then. 5-0 down at half-time against Brackley is appalling really. I can't imagine how much worse it would have been if we'd actually drawn someone big in the cup!

It does feel like a big improvement on last season, but saying that, if we do finish bottom half then it probably isn't.

LoidLucan
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:37 pm

There are lots of much-discussed factors that have contributed to this sticky patch but I don't think AA losing the ability to lift the side is one of them. They looked pretty well lifted and motivated when they produced a storming first half against Telford but consistency is the key and it has slipped since that excellent run when we went 8 games unbeaten. Patience will be required particularly with this very difficult run of fixtures and we'll need to stick with it rather than try to just pick holes in management and individual players every time there's a wobble.

super_les_mcjannet
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:34 am

Yarblockos wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:34 pm

It does feel like a big improvement on last season, but saying that, if we do finish bottom half then it probably isn't.
100k extra added to the bank from a cup run suggests even if we finish midtable it's a massive step forward.

Agree with most comments, it's disappointing currently and it was slightly before the cup run and O’Neill kicked in.
Losing O’Neill has lost us our way of playing, we work so hard that we need someone who can keep the pressure off and give the defence/midfield/wingers a rest at times. Without O’Neill this is missing and that’s before we talk about his goal scoring.

This season is all about setting us up for next season, however AA does need to try and keep some positive momentum by getting the team to pick up some points and keeping us midtable as opposed to looking over our shoulders.

spen666
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by spen666 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:54 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:34 am
Yarblockos wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:34 pm

It does feel like a big improvement on last season, but saying that, if we do finish bottom half then it probably isn't.
100k extra added to the bank from a cup run suggests even if we finish midtable it's a massive step forward.

Agree with most comments, it's disappointing currently and it was slightly before the cup run and O’Neill kicked in.
Losing O’Neill has lost us our way of playing, we work so hard that we need someone who can keep the pressure off and give the defence/midfield/wingers a rest at times. Without O’Neill this is missing and that’s before we talk about his goal scoring.

This season is all about setting us up for next season, however AA does need to try and keep some positive momentum by getting the team to pick up some points and keeping us midtable as opposed to looking over our shoulders.
Given Darlington are on 21 points and 2nd bottom Blyth on 13 points. The gap of 8 points is over 50% of Blyth's points total. It is unlikely that over the remainder of the season Blyth are going to pick up enough points to overhaul Darlington as well as all the side below Darlington doing the same.

The side have shown even recently they are capable of doing well. To go 2 goals up against Telford shows the side are decent enough not to be involved in any relegation battle.

Indeed, Darlington are only 7 points off a play off place, so are closer to play offs than relegation and still in the FA Trophy.

Don't talk your team down

al_quaker
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by al_quaker » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:57 am

I've no real concerns about the overall direction we are heading in, even if things have been disappointing since Walsall. It's pretty clear that our cup exploits have really taken it out of the players, and, as pointed out by everyone, we are missing that striker to lead the line and to bring others into play. Yes Armstrong may have made the odd mistake in summer recruitment seeing as we've ended up with too many midfielders, 2 senior keepers, but no striker. However, he completely revamped the squad, and he hit on many more of his signings than not, and he's built a squad which isn't that far off in my opinion - just one or 2 key players missing.

It's going to be a tough month or so - I wouldn't be suprised if we lose all our games this month. I'd still be happy with the direction Armstrong has us heading in though. Martin signing in January should help us out a bit in the latter part of the season, and going into next season we should see a bigger budget what with the end of (some of) the 500 club, the cup money hopefully meaning we can avoid too much 'early bird' money, and also not having Ainge to pay for, so I'm pretty sure we will see a big jump forwards.

50 years
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by 50 years » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:09 am

I go to most of the home and away games, and although the last two results have been disappointing it is worrying that some fans appear massively disappointed after what has been a not too bad period overall, compared to the previous two seasons. At times like these it is the fans that are needed to lift the players, (we all know we have some good players and are just short in a couple of areas, and so does Alan Armstrong!).

Confidence is massive in football and we are lacking that at the moment, so it is up to us to help the team at the games and help lift them (to be honest I think the Tin Shed singers have been really supportive this season).

We have a bad run of games now against teams who are full of confidence and goals, if fans become critical and on the players back we will have a self fulfilling prophesy and make things really hard and reduce the finances we need.

On the mention of the £100k from the cup run, I doubt much if any of it is spare if you consider that last year we had £20k from Styche dive plus the hero's game and at the AGM it was mentioned money was loaned from several fans to get us through last season, therefore we will need that cup windfall just to break even at the end of the year.
With no way of earning addition money for the club at BM, revenue to put towards additional players has to come through the gate, therefore we fans have a massive role to play in support of "our team" and just enjoy the ride for this season, up's and down's.

quakersfan
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by quakersfan » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:32 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:34 am
Yarblockos wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:34 pm

It does feel like a big improvement on last season, but saying that, if we do finish bottom half then it probably isn't.
100k extra added to the bank from a cup run suggests even if we finish midtable it's a massive step forward.

Agree with most comments, it's disappointing currently and it was slightly before the cup run and O’Neill kicked in.
Losing O’Neill has lost us our way of playing, we work so hard that we need someone who can keep the pressure off and give the defence/midfield/wingers a rest at times. Without O’Neill this is missing and that’s before we talk about his goal scoring.

This season is all about setting us up for next season, however AA does need to try and keep some positive momentum by getting the team to pick up some points and keeping us midtable as opposed to looking over our shoulders.
Hear AA looking to bring in a CF but apparently funds aren’t there as we are over budget which is very strange bearing in mind we had an additional £100k from cup run.
Not sure what to believe anymore, that’s why I’m missing my second match this season.

Gow9900
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Gow9900 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:56 pm

With regards to us being over budget, I’d guess it’s due to the fact we’re paying three long terms absences so have had to bring new players in.

We have signed Connell, Storey and Hedley.

Say they are on £200 a week each (mid table players wages in this league), sums as follows:

£600 a week x 40 weeks part time = £24,000 (it could be more, I’d guess it was so probably more like an extra £30,000 on top of the original set budget)

That is why we will be over the original budget. If we hadn’t signed those players then not only would we have been ridiculously short I don’t think we would have got near the 1st round, so it’s speculating to accumulate.

Some might say that it’s risky, but on the whole so far those three players have been good additions.

Then you look at our crowds. 1200 in against Telford, we have neck end of 1,000 season ticket holders which I believe are always counted, so we probably only had 2/300 walk ups. Say 50% paid £14, 25% paid concessions and 25% were under 11 so free, we don’t make a huge amount when we get poor crowds like that. Some matches once we have paid the rumoured £1,500 to the rugby club we’ll make next to nothing. And we have budgeted for low crowds but if crowds got so low we will end up only breaking even on some home games, which then means cash reserves are then used to pay the say £20,000 - £25,000 a month wage costs (guesstimate).

Shame you feel you need to miss the game but attendance isn’t compulsory, just hope too many others don't decide not to go as collapsing attendances will mean any banked monies will then have to be used to bridge the lack of match day income.

quakersfan
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by quakersfan » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:15 pm

TBH I’m xmas shopping with the misses. Not sure on your figures but I think it was said at a previous forum that the RG only charge for additional games outside of league and cup games so for friendlies etc

Darlo_lad
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Darlo_lad » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:32 pm

It's been poor on the whole since O'Neill left. I just hope we can piece together another run to get us towards the play offs

Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:02 pm

Gow9900 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:56 pm
With regards to us being over budget, I’d guess it’s due to the fact we’re paying three long terms absences so have had to bring new players in.

We have signed Connell, Storey and Hedley.

Say they are on £200 a week each (mid table players wages in this league), sums as follows:

£600 a week x 40 weeks part time = £24,000 (it could be more, I’d guess it was so probably more like an extra £30,000 on top of the original set budget)

That is why we will be over the original budget. If we hadn’t signed those players then not only would we have been ridiculously short I don’t think we would have got near the 1st round, so it’s speculating to accumulate.

Some might say that it’s risky, but on the whole so far those three players have been good additions.

Then you look at our crowds. 1200 in against Telford, we have neck end of 1,000 season ticket holders which I believe are always counted, so we probably only had 2/300 walk ups. Say 50% paid £14, 25% paid concessions and 25% were under 11 so free, we don’t make a huge amount when we get poor crowds like that. Some matches once we have paid the rumoured £1,500 to the rugby club we’ll make next to nothing. And we have budgeted for low crowds but if crowds got so low we will end up only breaking even on some home games, which then means cash reserves are then used to pay the say £20,000 - £25,000 a month wage costs (guesstimate).

Shame you feel you need to miss the game but attendance isn’t compulsory, just hope too many others don't decide not to go as collapsing attendances will mean any banked monies will then have to be used to bridge the lack of match day income.
Just regarding the season ticket holder thing, we don't count all STs as attended whether they were there or not, we only count actual people in the ground. Some clubs do it this way, as we do - for example that season when Hartlepool had 6,000 cheap ST holders yet in one or two matches got less than 5,000 as the gate. So they do (or did) do it too.

Other clubs do count ST holders as attended, for example if anyone remembers when Bradford had 10,000 cheap ST holders and were always announcing crowds of 13,000 yet many people commented that the ground looked nowhere near half full.

Back to our ST holders, I know that last season on average 600-650 ST holders turned up per match. We had around 850 last season. So maybe 750 turn up each match now. A gate of 1,200 will therefore likely generate 4-500 pay on the day rather than 200.

Either way, every gate of 1200 will eat into the budget going forwards if we've budgeted this season on last season's average gate of 1,400.
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Darlo_Pete
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Darlo_Pete » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:09 pm

Q is right, given our recent form, the crowds are going to head downwards apart from the derbies & that will just make us more & more over budget.

Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:09 pm

quakersfan wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:32 pm
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:34 am
Yarblockos wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:34 pm

It does feel like a big improvement on last season, but saying that, if we do finish bottom half then it probably isn't.
100k extra added to the bank from a cup run suggests even if we finish midtable it's a massive step forward.

Agree with most comments, it's disappointing currently and it was slightly before the cup run and O’Neill kicked in.
Losing O’Neill has lost us our way of playing, we work so hard that we need someone who can keep the pressure off and give the defence/midfield/wingers a rest at times. Without O’Neill this is missing and that’s before we talk about his goal scoring.

This season is all about setting us up for next season, however AA does need to try and keep some positive momentum by getting the team to pick up some points and keeping us midtable as opposed to looking over our shoulders.
Hear AA looking to bring in a CF but apparently funds aren’t there as we are over budget which is very strange bearing in mind we had an additional £100k from cup run.
Not sure what to believe anymore, that’s why I’m missing my second match this season.
It's not necessarily that there are no funds there, but probably that there is not enough funds to bring in a proven striker who costs big money. AA even said himself that he didn't really want to break the existing wage structure, for a start because it wouldn't be fair on the players already at the club.

Also, as already noted, we signed 3 extra players because of the 3 long term injuries. That will have taken a chunk out of the cup money. Gates again are on the decline - 1200 v Telford and I can't see that picking up any time soon. Again if gates are falling below forecast, then that extra money from the cups is used up quickly.
We are Darlo! We know our shitt! If we say it's 1-2-0-1-1-3-0-1-1 then you better believe it! La la la oo, la la la oo (clap, clap, clap, clap)

tdk1
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by tdk1 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:25 pm

We also lost Heaton, so aren't we only two players ahead?

en passant
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by en passant » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:33 pm

Having read the last few posts on this thread I was beginning to get the impression, based on the notion that others know better than I do, that we are already in dire straits re attendances, and that we are having to dip into the cup run money to maintain the projected break even figure. However, looking at our average crowd over the 10 league games so far, we have an average crowd of 1496. If the two cup games are added into the mix this gets boosted to 1569. Whilst the club may well have had to dip into the cup funds to fill gaps in the team, there is no sign, as yet, to suggest that average crowds are in danger of contributing to this. Of course this may well change on the back of games yet to be played, but as we stand we are still above the supposed budget requirement of a 1400 average. Indeed, if we have only 1100 people attend in each of the next three home games our league average would still be over 1400, and with the cup games included would be 1476. This would take us through to the New Year, and if we do get a recognised goalscorer at that point, and we hit some form the cause will not yet be lost. So we may just have to suffer a bit of bread and dripping until Christmas lunch turns up.

50 years
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by 50 years » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:48 am

En P, Those are all fair points, just a couple of things, I am not sure that the break even figure was 1400 at the start of the season (thought it was between 1500 and 1700, but I have been wrong before🤔), also we cant include the cup games as that money will have been included in the expected £100k from the run.

On the down side current average includes the York game already played, but on the upside we have the spennymoor game on boxing day, and with them going well now Taylor is back in the team and their gates increasing that should be close to a 2k gate and if we can get a striker in the new year and a bit of a run going I am fairly optimistic for the end of the season.

It has been mentioned about players coming in and out, think that we may have missed that we had to pay up Burns contract, given what I had heard re his weekly pay, (from a fan who knew the family well), this may have been a reasonably large amount if paid up in full.

DJ mentioned that the money from the cup run allows us to break even by the end of the season, which puts us in a solid position for next season at the start. Which will be the best position we have been in since we reformed. We will need another good boost the budget next year, but looks like we are finally turning the corner and well "financially" managed. Fans just need to keep the faith.

Ps. I used to love a bit of bread and dripping when I was a bairn😁.
Last edited by 50 years on Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

m62exile
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by m62exile » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:50 am

Let’s remember that DJ and others have said we’re at least thinking about some sort of hybrid model next season. If we are, I’d have thought we’d want to start from a stronger financial position than usual rather than spending everything. So maybe there’s a longer term plan.


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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:20 am

I agree with enpassent here, it’s not all doom and gloom, we’re just on a bit of a bad run that’s all.

And 50 years, I very much doubt that we would have paid up Burn’s contract in full - I mean, what we be the point in that? It would have meant “heads he wins, tails we lose” so there must have been a trade off.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

Tamworth matchday programme 26 Nov 2011

real_darlo_85
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by real_darlo_85 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:27 am

I am starting to think that AA is beginning to show signs of the same frustrations he had at Blyth regarding budget constraints in his pursuit of a striker. Hopefully, we can get out of this rut sooner rather than later!
"The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It is a very mean and nasty place and it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't how hard you hit; it's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

QUAKERMAN2
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Re: Simply not good enough

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:49 am

real_darlo_85 wrote:I am starting to think that AA is beginning to show signs of the same frustrations he had at Blyth regarding budget constraints in his pursuit of a striker. Hopefully, we can get out of this rut sooner rather than later![/

Yes, after listening to his interview and the report in the Northern Echo, without doubt he seems to be getting more and more frustrated ,particularly as he was close to signings twice this week only to lose out.One of the lads in question travelled to the Leamington game and the other involved a small transfer fee.


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