Leamington (A)

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H1987
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by H1987 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:27 am

Yeah, it is lopsided when you look at it. The thing is, Campbell was bought with the intention of him leading the line, and presumably at reasonable expense for this level. Unfortunately, I think we're approaching the point of admitting that transfer has failed. He's a supporting striker. With him and O'Neil, two players (on paper) should have been competing for one position, and actually that looked fine at the time. I don't think Campbell's a bad player, he's actually a good player at this level... but he can't lead the line. I think he needs to admit that to himself. I think he'd quite possibly thrive in 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 where he is not the main man... but that's what we brought him here for.

The problem is that we've got lots of players like that already. Objectively, Thommo, Donowa, Rivers and Holmes can all do that job too (I know Holmes is injured... i think we'll probably see Kneeshaw return on non contract terms too - i think they said on DFR last night we still have his registration, but he is the same). I don't know that i'm convinced Campbell is actually a lot better than any of the above, if at all.

I don't think the central midfielders are necessarily problematic. Hatfield is signing of the season imo, then Holness, Wheatley, Bascome and now Lambert on loan is essentially fine when we're playing 3 of the 5 anyway. The question mark is Atkinson, who was presumably signing as a utility man, but will be on big wages and also just has not been fit this season at all.

If the budget isn't there, we're simply going to have to change up how we're playing. We can't prevent injuries, but right now for me, it's Campbell and Atkinson who are looking distinctly suspect signings, as you imagine they're probably two of the biggest, if not the biggest salaries in the squad, and for one reason or another, they just haven't performed. I do feel for Atkinson, but he had a pre-existing poor injury record didn't he?

lo36789
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:45 am

H1987 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:27 am
Yeah, it is lopsided when you look at it. The thing is, Campbell was bought with the intention of him leading the line, and presumably at reasonable expense for this level. Unfortunately, I think we're approaching the point of admitting that transfer has failed. He's a supporting striker. With him and O'Neil, two players (on paper) should have been competing for one position, and actually that looked fine at the time. I don't think Campbell's a bad player, he's actually a good player at this level... but he can't lead the line. I think he needs to admit that to himself. I think he'd quite possibly thrive in 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 where he is not the main man... but that's what we brought him here for.
What is this based on? Find me a shred of evidence that the intention was to play Campbell as a lone striker.

1. We brought in O'Neill
2. We played O'Neill alongside Campbell up front
3. Our manager even when we had O'Neill kept repeating that he needs another 'big' striker.
4. Since O'Neill has left our manager has continued to re-iterate his need for another 'big' striker. I imagine with the intention to play alongside Campbell.

It is hardly Campbell's fault that O'Neill left, has not been replaced so as a reaction Armstrong has moved him to play on the left instead.

Just because some fans couldn't help but suggest O'Neill was playing behind Campbell doesn't make it any more true now than it was at the time.

darlo2001uk
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by darlo2001uk » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:54 am

Yarblockos wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:13 am
darlo2001uk wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:15 am
Our squad is completely lopsided.

In midfield, in one way or another, we have Donawa, Hatfield, Lambert, Thompson, Rivers, Holness, Bascome and Campbell - who is an attacking midfielder in reality more than an out and out forward.
You missed out Wheatley and also Hedley, who is a midfielder rather than a right back. So that's 10 midfielders!
Yes, I did. You are quite right on both counts!

Old Git
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by Old Git » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:56 am

Certain that when we signed Campbell AA said he wanted him to play as a central striker. People at the time questioned his goal scoring record but it was said that was because he had spent much of his career playing out wide. Also believe Campbell himself said he would prefer to play centrally.

lo36789
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:16 pm

We have two centre defenders, both play centrally.

Goalkeepers play centrally - but you can only have one of them. A striker can play centrally and not be a lone striker - like when he played alongside O'Neill. In the same vein Armstrong wants him to play centrally alongside the striker he is trying to bring in.

JE93
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by JE93 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:23 pm

It's a shame because looking at the squad after O'Neill came in, in the summer it looks a good well balanced squad to me:

GK: Elliott, Hall, Connell
RB: Trotman, Atkinson, Holiday, Hedley
LB: Liddle, Watson
CB: Galbraith, Laing, Heaton, Atkinson, Waston, Storey
CM: Hatfield, Wheatley, Holness, Bascome, Atkinson, Hedley
RM/RW/RF: Rivers, Holmes, Thompson, Donawa, Bell, Lambert
LM/LW/LF: Rivers, Holmes, Campbell, Thompson, Donawa, Bell, Lambert
CF: O'Neill, Campbell, Thompson

Injuries (in red) killed us, have the feeling Atkinson was supposed to be the DMF that would hold and let Hatfield and Wheatley play more. Trotman is in my opinion the best RB in the league and gives us an easy out-ball because of his quality on the ball, makes a huge difference from being able to just slide the ball to your RB or LB and trust their quality, rather than have to try and hoof it up to a currently non existent big CF, think it was really evident how much Liddle gave us in the FA Cup home game v Walsall, he pretty much started every attack for us. I have a feeling Trotman wont be here next season, but it should at least give us wages to play with to invest elsewhere. And then losing O'Neill took away the only forward we had who can play up on their own.

Those in blue have come in since the start of the season, those in yellow have left. Heaton didn't live up to his previous promise unfortunately, but has more than been made up for after the promise Storey has shown.

For me if we could do some business I would look to move on Elliott (Two keepers is a luxury and we have Connell to the end of the season and Hall as cover), Hedley or Bascome (too many CM's in the squad, I like both players but once Atkinson is fit again we have cover in CM and RB and Bascome is unavailable with Bermuda at points through the year), Lambert (again think we're covered in wider areas also have the potential of Bell in the future). If all of that gave us the budget to either bring in a striker, or pay the wages of a on loan striker to the end of the season, it would be a better use of funds in my opinion. Laing isn't an urgent one but if we could get a big nasty CB in the Alan White variety then he would be the CB I'd look to sacrifice to get the deal done.

I liked us in a 4-3-3 I think it suited what we have in the squad, if we started next season with something like below, and only have half as bad luck with injuries I'd fancy us to do alright:

----------------------------- Connell --------------------------------
New RB -------- Nasty CB ------- Galb/Story --------- Liddle
--------------- Hatfield -- Atkinson -- Wheatley ----------------
Rivers --------------------- New CF ------------------ Campbell

Subs: Hall, Galb/Story, Holness, Thompson, Donawa

Still have trust in Armstrong and the process, he has identified the issues and what we wants from the start which is more than we ever got from Wright. But just because it's a rebuilding season doesn't mean we have to wait till the summer to change things, we should be making changes as and when better players come available to make sure we can have the strongest season possible and be ready to hit the ground running next year.

Old Git
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by Old Git » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:33 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:16 pm
We have two centre defenders, both play centrally.

Goalkeepers play centrally - but you can only have one of them. A striker can play centrally and not be a lone striker - like when he played alongside O'Neill. In the same vein Armstrong wants him to play centrally alongside the striker he is trying to bring in.
Didn’t say Campbell was a lone striker just that he was brought in to be a central striker.Your football knowledge is clearly of a high level as you know teams only play with one goalie.

H1987
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by H1987 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:43 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:45 am
H1987 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:27 am
Yeah, it is lopsided when you look at it. The thing is, Campbell was bought with the intention of him leading the line, and presumably at reasonable expense for this level. Unfortunately, I think we're approaching the point of admitting that transfer has failed. He's a supporting striker. With him and O'Neil, two players (on paper) should have been competing for one position, and actually that looked fine at the time. I don't think Campbell's a bad player, he's actually a good player at this level... but he can't lead the line. I think he needs to admit that to himself. I think he'd quite possibly thrive in 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 where he is not the main man... but that's what we brought him here for.
What is this based on? Find me a shred of evidence that the intention was to play Campbell as a lone striker.

1. We brought in O'Neill
2. We played O'Neill alongside Campbell up front
3. Our manager even when we had O'Neill kept repeating that he needs another 'big' striker.
4. Since O'Neill has left our manager has continued to re-iterate his need for another 'big' striker. I imagine with the intention to play alongside Campbell.

It is hardly Campbell's fault that O'Neill left, has not been replaced so as a reaction Armstrong has moved him to play on the left instead.

Just because some fans couldn't help but suggest O'Neill was playing behind Campbell doesn't make it any more true now than it was at the time.
Armstrong literally said it himself. He's a number 9, he wants to play through the middle and lead the line.

At the start of the season, we were absolutely playing O'Neil off Campbell for a time. I couldn't help suggest it because it was clear, obvious and true. We, and O'Neil looked much better when he changed it up.

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:44 pm

Fair enough so you were just stating it cold and it wasn't a response to my comment...

"Find a shred of evidence that Campbell was brought in a lone striker"

"Certain that when we signed Campbell AA said he wanted him to play as a central striker."

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:47 pm

H1987 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:43 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:45 am
H1987 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:27 am
Yeah, it is lopsided when you look at it. The thing is, Campbell was bought with the intention of him leading the line, and presumably at reasonable expense for this level. Unfortunately, I think we're approaching the point of admitting that transfer has failed. He's a supporting striker. With him and O'Neil, two players (on paper) should have been competing for one position, and actually that looked fine at the time. I don't think Campbell's a bad player, he's actually a good player at this level... but he can't lead the line. I think he needs to admit that to himself. I think he'd quite possibly thrive in 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 where he is not the main man... but that's what we brought him here for.
What is this based on? Find me a shred of evidence that the intention was to play Campbell as a lone striker.

1. We brought in O'Neill
2. We played O'Neill alongside Campbell up front
3. Our manager even when we had O'Neill kept repeating that he needs another 'big' striker.
4. Since O'Neill has left our manager has continued to re-iterate his need for another 'big' striker. I imagine with the intention to play alongside Campbell.

It is hardly Campbell's fault that O'Neill left, has not been replaced so as a reaction Armstrong has moved him to play on the left instead.

Just because some fans couldn't help but suggest O'Neill was playing behind Campbell doesn't make it any more true now than it was at the time.
Armstrong literally said it himself. He's a number 9, he wants to play through the middle and lead the line.

At the start of the season, we were absolutely playing O'Neil off Campbell for a time. I couldn't help suggest it because it was clear, obvious and true. We, and O'Neil looked much better when he changed it up.
A number 9 plays alongside a number 10...both of them through the middle. There is no contradiction in that.

tbh ghost has banged this drum already to no avail.

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:55 pm

We have plenty of options once we get a striker in.

I think the frustrating thing for Armstrong is that we are quite strong with a 3 man midfield (Hatfield / Wheatley / Holness) is pretty good but it leaves us so light weight up front.

Once Atkinson is fit he may end up playing DM behind Hatfield and Wheatley potentially with Thompson at the top of the diamond and Martin / Campbell up front. To be honest though Bascombe / Wheatley could probably do that role already.

I am not sure we are getting that much value from Rivers when there is very little for him to hit in the penalty area. You could alternatively go 4-4-2. Rivers--Hatfield--Wheatley/Holness--Thompson as a 4 man midfield. It means a lot of CM are surplus to requirements and does really need a striker to be alongside Campbell.

H1987
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by H1987 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:05 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:47 pm
H1987 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:43 pm
lo36789 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:45 am
H1987 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:27 am
Yeah, it is lopsided when you look at it. The thing is, Campbell was bought with the intention of him leading the line, and presumably at reasonable expense for this level. Unfortunately, I think we're approaching the point of admitting that transfer has failed. He's a supporting striker. With him and O'Neil, two players (on paper) should have been competing for one position, and actually that looked fine at the time. I don't think Campbell's a bad player, he's actually a good player at this level... but he can't lead the line. I think he needs to admit that to himself. I think he'd quite possibly thrive in 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 where he is not the main man... but that's what we brought him here for.
What is this based on? Find me a shred of evidence that the intention was to play Campbell as a lone striker.

1. We brought in O'Neill
2. We played O'Neill alongside Campbell up front
3. Our manager even when we had O'Neill kept repeating that he needs another 'big' striker.
4. Since O'Neill has left our manager has continued to re-iterate his need for another 'big' striker. I imagine with the intention to play alongside Campbell.

It is hardly Campbell's fault that O'Neill left, has not been replaced so as a reaction Armstrong has moved him to play on the left instead.

Just because some fans couldn't help but suggest O'Neill was playing behind Campbell doesn't make it any more true now than it was at the time.
Armstrong literally said it himself. He's a number 9, he wants to play through the middle and lead the line.

At the start of the season, we were absolutely playing O'Neil off Campbell for a time. I couldn't help suggest it because it was clear, obvious and true. We, and O'Neil looked much better when he changed it up.
A number 9 plays alongside a number 10...both of them through the middle. There is no contradiction in that.

tbh ghost has banged this drum already to no avail.
I think we did this formation debate to death tbh. Even if we were playing 4-4-2, it's still entirely normal to have one striker more advanced than the other. See Sunderland with Quinn and Phillips. At one point, we effectively had Campbell (lets say Phillips, optimistically in this scenario) leading the line for O'Neil (Quinn).

Regardless, I think we're unlikely to revert to this given the successes of the quite fluid 4-3-3 we were playing... right up until we lost O'Neil. Although arguably the best discovery of this spell was how solid Holness, Wheatley and Hatfield could be as a midfield 3. This is the bit i'd be most reluctant to break up.

Whether we can help Campbell out by making the other 2 play a bit narrower could be an option, frequently they're dropping out to the wings of course. To do that, we'd actually need to keep the fullbacks available and fit.

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MKDarlo
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by MKDarlo » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:15 pm

We need a nasty, hard, horrible centre half who can organise and a nasty, hard, horrible , massive centre forward who can bully people, hold the ball up and score goals.

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by Mister e » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:36 pm

I'm not long out of bed after returning home in the early hours from last night's game everybody seems to be drumming up formations. Well having also witnessed brackley first hand it either lack of effort or lack of confidence which is grinding on me I hope it's the latter bit for large periods of last night's game it looked like we were treading water. At one point I even found myself in conversation with the Leamington keeper who must have been frozen stiff and bored witless. I suggest another thing our club stop doing is putting previous meetings with opponent's on our website i.e last season's 3 0 win over Telford this season's fa cup win at Leamington before we play them and probably doing half the team talk for them.

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by MCFCDarlo3 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:23 pm

MKDarlo wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:15 pm
We need a nasty, hard, horrible centre half who can organise and a nasty, hard, horrible , massive centre forward who can bully people, hold the ball up and score goals.
Those players must be out there, hard men who drive the team on...and want any win bonus going!

I think with those 2 additions and players back next season we can really have a tilt at going up.

tdk1
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by tdk1 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:23 pm

While it wouldn't have made any difference - we could still be playing now and wouldn't have had a shot - but if you look at the pics on leamington's twitter account, that second goal does not look over the line.

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by biccynana » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:36 pm

tdk1 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:23 pm
if you look at the pics on leamington's twitter account, that second goal does not look over the line.
It's clearly not, and there's no way the linesman could have had a clear view of that: ball moving at speed; a goalpost and at least two players between him and the ball. Question for the refs on here - in non-VAR games are officials supposed to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacking or defending team?

lo36789
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by lo36789 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:45 pm

There isn't really any "benefit of the doubt". More that you don't give what you don't see and otherwise the game just carries on.

H1987
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by H1987 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:25 am

MKDarlo wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:15 pm
We need a nasty, hard, horrible centre half who can organise and a nasty, hard, horrible , massive centre forward who can bully people, hold the ball up and score goals.
Reece Styche would score a hatful in this team. That’s the sort of striker we would ideally need. Put themselves about a bit and knows where the net is.

LoidLucan
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:49 am

Interesting then that Russell Slade at Hereford (who have a huge squad) recently bemoaned the fact that they "don't have a 20-goal a season striker." They've got several out-and-out forwards including the man himself. And Styche has regularly been slagged off by their fans for being lazy, disinterested and spending most of his time ranting at refs.

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by Vokuhila » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:11 pm

Dial 'S' for Styche!

LoidLucan
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:17 pm

He's also reckoned to be their biggest earner so I don't expect that phone to be ringing.

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by darlo_baron » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:17 pm

H1987 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:25 am
MKDarlo wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:15 pm
We need a nasty, hard, horrible centre half who can organise and a nasty, hard, horrible , massive centre forward who can bully people, hold the ball up and score goals.
Reece Styche would score a hatful in this team. That’s the sort of striker we would ideally need. Put themselves about a bit and knows where the net is.
He is. Unfortunately, players of this quality cost more than we can afford I imagine.
Craig Liddle is God!!

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by Vokuhila » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:58 pm

Well, if Styche is beyond our means, then I guess the below equation is the only conceivable solution:

(We need a target man who knows where the back of the net is + West Auckland owe us some kind of goodwill gesture after those infamous price hike shenanigans) x Arena dog-walking nostalgia = Paul Connor on a month's loan

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by karlo-cardiff » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:15 pm

There must be a player that fits what were looking for out there... A few have come close apparently but pulled out last minute ... Won't be all down to money so what else could be the stumbling block


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divas
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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by divas » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:59 pm

karlo-cardiff wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:15 pm
There must be a player that fits what were looking for out there... A few have come close apparently but pulled out last minute ... Won't be all down to money so what else could be the stumbling block


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Injuries to players at their parent club
Other clubs from a higher division making an offer
Contracts at parent clubs that prohibit loans
Clubs wanting fees

The list goes on....

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by jjljks » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:50 pm

karlo-cardiff wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:15 pm
There must be a player that fits what were looking for out there... A few have come close apparently but pulled out last minute ... Won't be all down to money so what else could be the stumbling block


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Heard the lad travelled to Leamington with the team, so perhaps when he saw the way they played, he thought better of it and was not prepared to get his kit dirty.

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by JE93 » Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:21 pm

It happens. It's incredibly frustrating and it still leaves us in the mire. Im sure when one of the deals comes off Armstrong will get the right man in. But it's not just us, I see Ben Jackson (on loan with us last season) has been recalled from his season long loan at Stockport by Huddersfield as they currently dont have any fit LB's in the squad.

In the mean time see Boston have loaned Dayle Southwell from Halifax. Just the 54 goals in 72 games for them last time he was at this level. Boston seem to be one of the other clubs who are officially 'going for it'. Few making a good first of it this season.

York
Kings Lynn
Spenny
Brackley
Chester
Boston

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Re: Leamington (A)

Post by LoidLucan » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:02 pm

I wonder if we have taken an interest in former Blyth striker Greg Rutherford, currently at Whitby.

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