Highlights this season

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poppyfield
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Highlights this season

Post by poppyfield » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:18 pm

Anyone know if its the same rules this season about showing the games highlights (not till after Sunday midnight) Not sure if Kev comes on this site, anyone?
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hmsbubbles
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by hmsbubbles » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:30 pm

No clue but wouldn't mind seeing them as this weekends has been a total blur. UTD

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Quaker85
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by Quaker85 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:06 pm

It’s the same sorry to say but the peasants may be about to revolt....


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hmsbubbles
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by hmsbubbles » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:36 pm

Aye fam i dat mad ting, u get me g?

TFDM
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by TFDM » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:10 pm

Highlights are up now at https://youtu.be/FvnDjRLaGnw

Apologies for the lack of commentary. DFR had some issues and we we're missing 20 minutes at the start.

I'm going to waffle a bit here...

Its the same daft rules sadly as previous seasons. I've banged the drum, along with other folks doing a similar job at other clubs, for change but its fallen on deaf ears. For some reason there doesn't appear to have been a single highlight posted this weekend on the league site. I can only assume there has been a massive clusterf**k somewhere.

There are a few key issues which I think need to be addressed by the league. However until clubs wade in and stand up for volunteers I can't see things changing. The league simply won't talk to people like myself properly. And believe me, we've tried. We're seen as a nuisance. Particularly this summer, as we've essentially been fobbed off.

For me the two big issues are as follows.

The embargo is the first issue - 00:01 on a Monday morning is ridiculous for a Saturday 3pm game. I've had our highlights ready since about 11:30pm on Saturday. They need to bring the embargo forward. A compromise would be something like 6pm on a Sunday evening. Not perfect, but better than it is currently. The football league and the premeier league allow their clubs to do far more with their footage earlier. I can understand at National League level because BT sports do a show with the footage but not at our level.

It is designed entirely for the league to rake in the views. Nothing more. If we score a good goal we want to be able to get that video out onto social media etc. It helps the club, however we can't until Monday. By which point it's a waste of time.

Secondly funding for equipment and volunteers - the league dishes out a pot of money each to clubs. I'm not sure how much it is at our level. However the league insist this money is used to cover things that clubs are expected to deliver - photos for league use, video footage etc etc. Thats what they've said anyway. Part of me thinks they are passing the buck and trying to fob us off onto our respective clubs.

The league however don't reveal how the pot is made up. Some of it will be made up of sponsorship from Vanarama, Jako and betting partners etc. Others will be for the video footage (I predict it won't be a huge amount). However the league won't explain the split.

It makes things very hard for clubs as they can't exactly allocate resources when they don't know the split. Its all very well the league saying clubs are responsible for sorting out paying to get the job done or for equipment and people to do the job but they need to offer some guidance. Explaining how much value is placed on video would be a massive help. Ultimately I don't think the leagues will be providing anywhere close to a total which actually covers the equipment needed or the amount it won't cost to get someone to do it.

I should point out I don't want to be paid for what I do. Other people do as much, if not more than me and get nothing. So why should I be any different? However equipment gets old, stuff breaks and it needs replacing. At the moment I find it difficult to justify asking fans for money to replace gear when the service I'm providing is essentially being gimped by the league. In the past I've dipped my hand into my pocket but truth be told, the league have kind of sucked the fun out it for me. This is the first summer where I've not bought anything or replaced anything in my camera bag - that says a lot.

I guess part of this is my own issue as well, I've never had a discussion with the club about this area of things. Maybe its something I need to do. However I do believe the league are attempting to pass the buck with issues.

Basically the league want games filming, won't let clubs use their footage properly, have horrendous deadlines for getting footage sent into them, offer no guidance on how much they value the product or how much money should be allocated by clubs to get the job done. Both problems could be sorted easily in my opinion - move the embargo and central fund a baseline set of equipment for clubs to access every couple of seasons to get the job done.

I will keep banging the drum for change for as long as I'm involved but sadly I feel I'm fighting a losing battle, at least in regards with the league.

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Spyman
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by Spyman » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:16 am

You do a fantastic job Kev, sorry to hear it's such a pain in the arse.

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

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en passant
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by en passant » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:04 am

When it first came out, going back a few years now, that the league were making these demands there was a massive wave of support for everything you do and we all felt the injustice of what the league was asking clubs supply. There seemed to be little respect, on the league's behalf, that the product they were claiming first rights on was being produced by volunteers, using self-funded equipment, and that without that goodwill they would have nothing to make demands on. I think at the time you were willing to let it lie for a quiet life, but I do understand how this would get under your skin as time passes and equipment begins to fail or is no longer the current technology and needs replacing. It was interesting to read that they think they are making a contribution to this but they don't make it clear what it is (the vagueness of which would suggest that they are contributing little or nothing). If other volunteers at other clubs are feeling a similar level of abuse of the benefits they are supplying then it does have the potential for the league to lose this valuable asset. Maybe it is time for the club to get involved, if they haven't already, and have a word with other clubs and make an approach to the league to press home the changes you are asking for and to get more clarity on what the league is prepared to offer on the need to upkeep equipment.

eddie-rowles
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by eddie-rowles » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:16 am

TFDM wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:10 pm
Highlights are up now at https://youtu.be/FvnDjRLaGnw

Apologies for the lack of commentary. DFR had some issues and we we're missing 20 minutes at the start.

I'm going to waffle a bit here...

Its the same daft rules sadly as previous seasons. I've banged the drum, along with other folks doing a similar job at other clubs, for change but its fallen on deaf ears. For some reason there doesn't appear to have been a single highlight posted this weekend on the league site. I can only assume there has been a massive clusterf**k somewhere.

There are a few key issues which I think need to be addressed by the league. However until clubs wade in and stand up for volunteers I can't see things changing. The league simply won't talk to people like myself properly. And believe me, we've tried. We're seen as a nuisance. Particularly this summer, as we've essentially been fobbed off.

For me the two big issues are as follows.

The embargo is the first issue - 00:01 on a Monday morning is ridiculous for a Saturday 3pm game. I've had our highlights ready since about 11:30pm on Saturday. They need to bring the embargo forward. A compromise would be something like 6pm on a Sunday evening. Not perfect, but better than it is currently. The football league and the premeier league allow their clubs to do far more with their footage earlier. I can understand at National League level because BT sports do a show with the footage but not at our level.

It is designed entirely for the league to rake in the views. Nothing more. If we score a good goal we want to be able to get that video out onto social media etc. It helps the club, however we can't until Monday. By which point it's a waste of time.

Secondly funding for equipment and volunteers - the league dishes out a pot of money each to clubs. I'm not sure how much it is at our level. However the league insist this money is used to cover things that clubs are expected to deliver - photos for league use, video footage etc etc. Thats what they've said anyway. Part of me thinks they are passing the buck and trying to fob us off onto our respective clubs.

The league however don't reveal how the pot is made up. Some of it will be made up of sponsorship from Vanarama, Jako and betting partners etc. Others will be for the video footage (I predict it won't be a huge amount). However the league won't explain the split.

It makes things very hard for clubs as they can't exactly allocate resources when they don't know the split. Its all very well the league saying clubs are responsible for sorting out paying to get the job done or for equipment and people to do the job but they need to offer some guidance. Explaining how much value is placed on video would be a massive help. Ultimately I don't think the leagues will be providing anywhere close to a total which actually covers the equipment needed or the amount it won't cost to get someone to do it.

I should point out I don't want to be paid for what I do. Other people do as much, if not more than me and get nothing. So why should I be any different? However equipment gets old, stuff breaks and it needs replacing. At the moment I find it difficult to justify asking fans for money to replace gear when the service I'm providing is essentially being gimped by the league. In the past I've dipped my hand into my pocket but truth be told, the league have kind of sucked the fun out it for me. This is the first summer where I've not bought anything or replaced anything in my camera bag - that says a lot.

I guess part of this is my own issue as well, I've never had a discussion with the club about this area of things. Maybe its something I need to do. However I do believe the league are attempting to pass the buck with issues.

Basically the league want games filming, won't let clubs use their footage properly, have horrendous deadlines for getting footage sent into them, offer no guidance on how much they value the product or how much money should be allocated by clubs to get the job done. Both problems could be sorted easily in my opinion - move the embargo and central fund a baseline set of equipment for clubs to access every couple of seasons to get the job done.

I will keep banging the drum for change for as long as I'm involved but sadly I feel I'm fighting a losing battle, at least in regards with the league.
I would like to see a positive plan of action from Ray and the media team plus John Woolnough to deal with this. as Kevs coverage is fantastic I do not want him putting his hand in his pocket , Maybe next season on boost the budget we can tick a box & allocate 5% of revenue towards Kev?

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by Vodka_Vic » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:32 am

Sponsorship? Dfc highlights sponsored by......Or do the NLN not allow this either?

JE93
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by JE93 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:44 am

Awful treatment of volunteers by the league. Especially considering the likes of Kev have ensured that exiles, like my self, still feel such a close link to the club despite only attending 5-10 games a season max. And keeping that connection has kept the money flowing in from me to the club. So these volunteers (at all clubs) are worth their weight in gold.

I would be tempted to just ask volunteers to fob the league off on mass. Secure one of the go pros to the front of the balcony. And film the game in wide angle (preferably with a bit of vaseline rubbed over the lense). Send them that every weekend. And after the embargo release our proper highlights. Embed a copywrite in them to show clearly they belong to kev or the club. Should the league ever try and use or promote them immediately send them cease and dissist orders and publically rebuke them for using footage which does not belong to them.

What the league should be doing here is looking to add value not steal material. The league could easily approach a university and ask students in a media term or sports journalism team to do a bit of research, talk over the highlights and do a bit of analysis. Suddenly you have a 30 minute Confernece north review to host on their website which shows all conference north goals with a bit of chat. They get all the traffic from that. They get it all for free and the students get the experience which sets them aside for when they're applying for jobs out of uni. And our volunteers post their own highlights at a reasonable time on a sunday for people who just want to see their own teams highlights.

TFDM
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by TFDM » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:53 am

It’s a really strange setup the league have presented. When you move up to national league level BT sport provide the camera and (introduced this season) a fibre connection so the footage can be sent instantly to their editing suite. They also provide a copy to the league. So your job, from a league perspective, is done by 5pm. Beyond that it’s anything extra you want to do for your respective club.

So you have this strange situation when clubs further down get less money, have to provide their own gear and essentially do more work. Mental.

I feel for clubs coming up after a promotion. I’ve built a camera bag over about 7 years. However for a side coming up it’s a big one off payment.

f you break down the costs of a setup to do the job I reckon you’re looking at around £1,200 for a responsible spec computer to do the job, if you use something like Adobe (fairly standard for video - you could save money on software with a Mac as Final Cut is a one off payment but your computer would cost more) then that’s £600 a year for your subscription costs and then a camera (something like a Canon XF400) would cost you £2,000. That’s a base setup which would allow you to fulfil the league requirements - that’s nearly £4,000. It also doesn’t include things like your broadband etc. I’ve been a bit fast and lose with the numbers but you see the ball park figure.

Even if clubs decided to farm the job out to a local company I reckon you’re looking at a fair whack. Maybe £300-400 a weekend?

The league say media students can be used. But the reality is it’s hard to get a student to commit to an entire calendar of home games. Having been a student many many years ago I would have trusted a 17/18 year old me to run a bath, let alone be about for an entire football season to provide footage. The league also fail to address that the season is well underway by late September which is when most students are back into the swing of things. They are also off around Christmas and Easter as well. It’s a nice idea but impractical.

All this for regional non-league football. It’s crackers if you ask me. Maybe the success of club’s own YouTube channels (the likes of Stockport, Barrow and Salford etc produce quality footage) is to blame? The league clearly feel their is a market to be explored for them.

I need to find a solution because over the next couple of seasons I can foresee my two main needing to be replaced. Both of them have started to have little niggles of late. I’ll try and sit down with the club and work something out when we get August out of the way.

I don’t want to sound like this is me being critical of the club. It’s not. I do feel well looked after and appreciated by the club. However I do feel there is a bigger, wider issue which needs addressing by the league. Like I’ve said previously I think the league is partly being a bit sneaky and sending volunteers back to the clubs. I may sit down and read the handbook tonight and see if they explicitly state how central funding should be used.

I think Spyman sums it up best. It’s a pain in the arse.

TFDM
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by TFDM » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:04 am

There will be a solution. I'm still hopeful we'll get a sponsors sorted out for the season for the channel - I think one is potentially on the cards. In which case we could largely solve the problem in one swoop. There has actually been talk of a strike but its difficult, some folks are employees, particularly at National League level, at their respective clubs. So I think its a non-starter.

Anyway, thats the situation, onto the Gateshead game and the first three points of the season.

50 years
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by 50 years » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:07 am

I think the highlights you produce Kev are the best quality ones in this league and the conference. If you do need finance for equipment, I for one would be willing to donate again, as even though I go to most matches I can't wait to see the highlights, an example being this Saturday I was at the opposite end for all Farsley's goals so getting a better perspective of them is excellent, (opposite to the defending :) ). Fully appreciate the work you do, Thanks for all your hard work.

jjljks
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by jjljks » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:33 am

Thanks Kev for all the time, effort & expense you are giving on behalf of the club. League must be shaken out of their complacency for the good of all the clubs at our level & below, if not non-league football itself.
I would be happy to contribute to a fund to cover improvements and expenses. Several good ideas already expressed about getting sponsors, involvement of media team & even students. Many benefits to be gained from Kev's expertise as evident in the professional standard of the highlights. What about giving a workshop to any interested parties, at a nominal price to make a small profit?
I appreciate Kev is finding dealing with the bureaucrats at the league a pain in his arse, so perhaps Anusol could be a sponsor?😉

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:32 am

What you do us brilliant and much appreciated. Hopefully you can sit down with a Board member and at least chat through the issues. Hopefully that would be pursued at league level through their meetings. It's surely not just an issue at our club? It really does need resolving.

JasonDeVos
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by JasonDeVos » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:56 am

TFDM wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:53 am
It’s a really strange setup the league have presented. When you move up to national league level BT sport provide the camera and (introduced this season) a fibre connection so the footage can be sent instantly to their editing suite. They also provide a copy to the league. So your job, from a league perspective, is done by 5pm. Beyond that it’s anything extra you want to do for your respective club.

So you have this strange situation when clubs further down get less money, have to provide their own gear and essentially do more work. Mental.

I feel for clubs coming up after a promotion. I’ve built a camera bag over about 7 years. However for a side coming up it’s a big one off payment.

f you break down the costs of a setup to do the job I reckon you’re looking at around £1,200 for a responsible spec computer to do the job, if you use something like Adobe (fairly standard for video - you could save money on software with a Mac as Final Cut is a one off payment but your computer would cost more) then that’s £600 a year for your subscription costs and then a camera (something like a Canon XF400) would cost you £2,000. That’s a base setup which would allow you to fulfil the league requirements - that’s nearly £4,000. It also doesn’t include things like your broadband etc. I’ve been a bit fast and lose with the numbers but you see the ball park figure.

Even if clubs decided to farm the job out to a local company I reckon you’re looking at a fair whack. Maybe £300-400 a weekend?

The league say media students can be used. But the reality is it’s hard to get a student to commit to an entire calendar of home games. Having been a student many many years ago I would have trusted a 17/18 year old me to run a bath, let alone be about for an entire football season to provide footage. The league also fail to address that the season is well underway by late September which is when most students are back into the swing of things. They are also off around Christmas and Easter as well. It’s a nice idea but impractical.

All this for regional non-league football. It’s crackers if you ask me. Maybe the success of club’s own YouTube channels (the likes of Stockport, Barrow and Salford etc produce quality footage) is to blame? The league clearly feel their is a market to be explored for them.

I need to find a solution because over the next couple of seasons I can foresee my two main needing to be replaced. Both of them have started to have little niggles of late. I’ll try and sit down with the club and work something out when we get August out of the way.

I don’t want to sound like this is me being critical of the club. It’s not. I do feel well looked after and appreciated by the club. However I do feel there is a bigger, wider issue which needs addressing by the league. Like I’ve said previously I think the league is partly being a bit sneaky and sending volunteers back to the clubs. I may sit down and read the handbook tonight and see if they explicitly state how central funding should be used.

I think Spyman sums it up best. It’s a pain in the arse.

Kev the quality of your work is second to none. Far better than anything I saw when we in the league. Not just highlights but the superb interviews you do.

I’m sure the club will support your view 100% as they all seem reasonable people.

I have now made Monday lunch time the time to ‘enjoy’ the highlights.

TFDM
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by TFDM » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:07 am

Just a follow up to this, I've had a chat with the club and they are totally on board with things and the need to renew gear on occasions.

We're obviously not in a position to make purchase at the drop of a hat but with a little planning we'll be fine. The reality is if you research and buy the right gear and look after it you shouldn't have to renew things for a good few years. Like I said earlier, its a conversation I should have had earlier. However its far easier now as we're more settle behind the scenes. So all good.

As a club we're also going to start sounding out other clubs in the division about an effort to get the league to review the video rules. We're not the only club who are frustrated so hopefully, with a bit of communication amongst sides in the division, can lead to a change for the better.

spen666
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by spen666 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:59 am

TFDM wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:07 am
….

As a club we're also going to start sounding out other clubs in the division about an effort to get the league to review the video rules. We're not the only club who are frustrated so hopefully, with a bit of communication amongst sides in the division, can lead to a change for the better.
There seemed to be a bit of chat on twitter ( and I think FaceBook) in the last couple of days about this from other clubs. In particular the embargo until Monday morning point.

Seems like you will find a fair bit of support amongst other NLN (& NLS) clubs & their fans. I understand BT Sport have confirmed the embargo is nothing to do with them and they do not request an embargo.

JasonDeVos
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Re: Highlights this season

Post by JasonDeVos » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:51 pm

TFDM wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:07 am
Just a follow up to this, I've had a chat with the club and they are totally on board with things and the need to renew gear on occasions.

We're obviously not in a position to make purchase at the drop of a hat but with a little planning we'll be fine. The reality is if you research and buy the right gear and look after it you shouldn't have to renew things for a good few years. Like I said earlier, its a conversation I should have had earlier. However its far easier now as we're more settle behind the scenes. So all good.

As a club we're also going to start sounding out other clubs in the division about an effort to get the league to review the video rules. We're not the only club who are frustrated so hopefully, with a bit of communication amongst sides in the division, can lead to a change for the better.
Good stuff. Excellent to hear the club are right behind you and will support your views and needs.

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