TW - Learning His Trade

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Darlo_Pete » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:02 pm

I saw Darlo Cock recently when out shopping. He's just the same as usual, but didn't ask about why he stopped following Darlo.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:47 pm

AndyPark wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:50 am
Spyman wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:11 am
AndyPark wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:50 am
I liked Maddison, great shot stopper imo. I think he's had his confidence shot and hasn't regained in.

Would like to think a fresh start in the summer for him and refocus. Come back in pre-season and be the GK we know he can be.
Do we know he can be anything other than an error prone goalkeeper who struggles in a number of key areas though? That seems to have been the consensus about him all season.

The old 'great shot-stopper' line - as if anyone can get to any kind of a level as a goalkeeper without being a great shot stopper :lol:
Spyman, I am crediting you for that fantastic use of a signature.

Whatever happened to Darlo Cockney?
Yes it’s a brilliant signature and always makes me chuckle.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Vokuhila » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:47 pm

Isn't Darlo Cockney the busker from Tabby McTat these days?
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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by lo36789 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:45 pm

The stats don't really look good for Wright no matter how you cut them...has he ever had a third season somewhere though?

It probably is blind faith, because there isn't really a logical reason but I'm kind of happy to stick with him and see what happens.

I don't actually think he would take us down and maybe I am just hoping that he finally works out what it is that has made us tick, on the times when we have ticked and "re-apply".

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:10 am

lo36789 wrote:The stats don't really look good for Wright no matter how you cut them...has he ever had a third season somewhere though?

It probably is blind faith, because there isn't really a logical reason but I'm kind of happy to stick with him and see what happens.

I don't actually think he would take us down and maybe I am just hoping that he finally works out what it is that has made us tick, on the times when we have ticked and "re-apply".
Hardly a ringing endorsement if all you have is blind faith. I've not seen anyone who wants TW to stay justify it on the basis of his ability. That to me is telling.

Too much is made of "We won't go down under TW". We shouldn't be getting anywhere near relegation, certainly not with his budget this season. Yet in both seasons he's been here, we've ended up at some point in the bottom three.

Have we spent longer in the bottom three under TW than in the top 10? I think that might be the case.

Avoiding relegation is not a big success - even TW stated that last season. So why do people insist on presenting it as such?





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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by tezza » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:34 am

One day your dream will come to pass .... i can hear the words "i told you so"

I am interested to know who YOU would have in his place, and why were he to leave ?

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Beano » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:38 am

tezza wrote:One day your dream will come to pass .... i can hear the words "i told you so"

I am interested to know who YOU would have in his place, and why were he to leave ?
Mark Bower, Chris Moore, Chris Hardy, Adam Lakeland, as a start, would all be viable candidates.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by darlo_baron » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:44 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:10 am
lo36789 wrote:The stats don't really look good for Wright no matter how you cut them...has he ever had a third season somewhere though?

It probably is blind faith, because there isn't really a logical reason but I'm kind of happy to stick with him and see what happens.

I don't actually think he would take us down and maybe I am just hoping that he finally works out what it is that has made us tick, on the times when we have ticked and "re-apply".
Hardly a ringing endorsement if all you have is blind faith. I've not seen anyone who wants TW to stay justify it on the basis of his ability. That to me is telling.

Too much is made of "We won't go down under TW". We shouldn't be getting anywhere near relegation, certainly not with his budget this season. Yet in both seasons he's been here, we've ended up at some point in the bottom three.

Have we spent longer in the bottom three under TW than in the top 10? I think that might be the case.

Avoiding relegation is not a big success - even TW stated that last season. So why do people insist on presenting it as such?
This.

The budget provided was clearly more than competitive to challenge higher up the league. Of course, football doesn't necessarily work like that, but we are getting out performed by teams with lesser budgets.

We need to improve and not accept avoiding relegation as an achievement.
Craig Liddle is God!!

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by tezza » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:51 am

darlo_baron wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:44 am
Darlogramps wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:10 am
lo36789 wrote:The stats don't really look good for Wright no matter how you cut them...has he ever had a third season somewhere though?

It probably is blind faith, because there isn't really a logical reason but I'm kind of happy to stick with him and see what happens.

I don't actually think he would take us down and maybe I am just hoping that he finally works out what it is that has made us tick, on the times when we have ticked and "re-apply".
Hardly a ringing endorsement if all you have is blind faith. I've not seen anyone who wants TW to stay justify it on the basis of his ability. That to me is telling.

Too much is made of "We won't go down under TW". We shouldn't be getting anywhere near relegation, certainly not with his budget this season. Yet in both seasons he's been here, we've ended up at some point in the bottom three.

Have we spent longer in the bottom three under TW than in the top 10? I think that might be the case.

Avoiding relegation is not a big success - even TW stated that last season. So why do people insist on presenting it as such?
This.

The budget provided was clearly more than competitive to challenge higher up the league. Of course, football doesn't necessarily work like that, but we are getting out performed by teams with lesser budgets.

We need to improve and not accept avoiding relegation as an achievement.
Good and sensible response.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:09 am

Beano wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:38 am
tezza wrote:One day your dream will come to pass .... i can hear the words "i told you so"

I am interested to know who YOU would have in his place, and why were he to leave ?
Mark Bower, Chris Moore, Chris Hardy, Adam Lakeland, as a start, would all be viable candidates.
Can add John Flanagan to that list too.

His Curzon sides were always very well organised, and he was harshly sacked by Curzon when they were 14th despite operating on a shoe-string (still 4 places higher than us!).

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by carlodarlo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:50 am

Interesting that Trotman has signed a new deal today. Possibly suggesting that we may have Wright in charge again next season unless we are just protecting the club in tying down one of our more valuable assets. I cant get away from the fact that I like Tommy Wright as a man and I really want him to do well but I just cant see it happening. His record for a club with our budget is not good, There is no way to put together a case that based on results and performances in his tenure that he can be trusted to "learn" and we will be better next season.
In answer to the question of who can we get to replace him, There has already been several good candidates mentioned. I am not sure what he has done after leaving Chorley but Matt Jansen never seems to get a mention. Has had Chorley consistently in and around the top half/play offs and more telling that when he left he left a stable team that someone else has picked up and pushed on with rather than leaving a shitstorm to inherit. I don't know if he has gone elsewhere but if he hasn't he would be near the top of my list if we are to replace Wright.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by JE93 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:57 am

carlodarlo wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:50 am
Interesting that Trotman has signed a new deal today. Possibly suggesting that we may have Wright in charge again next season unless we are just protecting the club in tying down one of our more valuable assets. I cant get away from the fact that I like Tommy Wright as a man and I really want him to do well but I just cant see it happening. His record for a club with our budget is not good, There is no way to put together a case that based on results and performances in his tenure that he can be trusted to "learn" and we will be better next season.
In answer to the question of who can we get to replace him, There has already been several good candidates mentioned. I am not sure what he has done after leaving Chorley but Matt Jansen never seems to get a mention. Has had Chorley consistently in and around the top half/play offs and more telling that when he left he left a stable team that someone else has picked up and pushed on with rather than leaving a shitstorm to inherit. I don't know if he has gone elsewhere but if he hasn't he would be near the top of my list if we are to replace Wright.
I believe Jansen now coaches Blackburn U23's full time. But you're right a very credible candidate should he throw his name in the ring.

At the risk of being shot down. Neil Aspin should also be considered based on his record. Took Halifax to 3 successive promotions, found players like Jamie Vardy and Lee Gregory and sold them on at a profit. His record as a manager is Played: 706. Won: 328, Drawn: 177. Lost: 201. Win percentage: 46.5%. He isn't the most charismatic man, nor does he play the best football but its hard to argue on that record that he isn't effective.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by divas » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:56 am

For Aspin see Dave Penney. He’d probably be off to a loser with many before he starts because he’s a bit dour

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by shildonlad » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:43 pm

Aspins not a particularly bad bloke who was described as a pleasure to work with by ex gateshead chairman Richard bennot and is not afraid to raid the lower leagues for a good player which paid off with the likes of james montgomery, fraser kerr and scott barrow. Yeah no charisma in interviews but he knows lower league inside out and has been loyal to the clubs hes been at
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Spyman » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:52 pm

divas wrote:For Aspin see Dave Penney. He’d probably be off to a loser with many before he starts because he’s a bit dour
Ex-Darlo though so plenty of those will be conflicted. Might blow a few minds.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by al_quaker » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:55 pm

:lol:

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:24 pm

divas wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:56 am
For Aspin see Dave Penney. He’d probably be off to a loser with many before he starts because he’s a bit dour

Currently overseeing a hugely impressive run of cock ups and managerial changes at York. I wonder what he actually does there?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by onewayup » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:44 pm

I would like to see continuity for next season, no good ever came from chopping and changing.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:08 pm

onewayup wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:44 pm
I would like to see continuity for next season, no good ever came from chopping and changing.
Would anybody really trust TW this summer with another decent budget, especially given that the budget is being cut again placing a greater emphasis on quality over quantity next season?

Maddison: Can’t command his area and has been replaced by Turner. Has been transfer-listed.

Burn: Poor and hasn’t featured since Christmas. Has been transfer-listed.

Hughes: Signed as a centre-midfielder but was too unfit to play there.

Ainge: Signed as a centre-forward but is finished in that position.

Elliott: Good signing. Get 6/10 from him every match.

Nicholson: Very good signing and technically quite gifted.

Henshall: Very poor signing and a lot worse than Gillies.

There are also questions marks over whether he should have let Turnbull & Gillies go as both would strengthen us.

So that’s 2 out of 7 summer signings that you can say were good. The rest were poor or not good enough for the roles they were signed for.

TW’s win percentage is poor, worse than last season, and the stats are padded with results against opposition who have self-capitualated.

Some people seem to forget that we have a top 7 budget last summer, and even with several cuts, we still should be operating at a position higher than where we are currently. For some reason it’s a miracle to some that we’ve stayed up.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:17 pm

Also a negative for me is Wright signing players and not being sure about them, Jackson (didn't pick him until out of options as Holness was suspended so Tom Elliott had to play midfield), K.Elliott (hardly played him until willing to throw him on v's Boston - that was his 5th game on the bench before given a real chance), Bascome (had one chance away to Stockport, took off to never be seen again).

He also keeps trying with Henshall because after giving up with most of his signings he is trying to make something work that won't.

I am less nervous that Wright would take us down next season but I genuinely don't see him learning his trade, just keeps making similar mistakes.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Darlo2807 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:18 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:08 pm
onewayup wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:44 pm
I would like to see continuity for next season, no good ever came from chopping and changing.
Would anybody really trust TW this summer with another decent budget, especially given that the budget is being cut again placing a greater emphasis on quality over quantity next season?

Maddison: Can’t command his area and has been replaced by Turner. Has been transfer-listed.

Burn: Poor and hasn’t featured since Christmas. Has been transfer-listed.

Hughes: Signed as a centre-midfielder but was too unfit to play there.

Ainge: Signed as a centre-forward but is finished in that position.

Elliott: Good signing. Get 6/10 from him every match.

Nicholson: Very good signing and technically quite gifted.

Henshall: Very poor signing and a lot worse than Gillies.

There are also questions marks over whether he should have let Turnbull & Gillies go as both would strengthen us.

So that’s 2 out of 7 summer signings that you can say were good. The rest were poor or not good enough for the roles they were signed for.

TW’s win percentage is poor, worse than last season, and the stats are padded with results against opposition who have self-capitualated.

Some people seem to forget that we have a top 7 budget last summer, and even with several cuts, we still should be operating at a position higher than where we are currently. For some reason it’s a miracle to some that we’ve stayed up.
The majority of his signings in the Summer were poor, I agree. A lot of the players he let go were good enough, and some better than what we have now, I agree.

However, he will have learned from his mistakes at this point, and will utilise the loan market and keep most of the current squad together if he's here next season. We need some consistency.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:21 pm

Darlo2807 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:18 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:08 pm
onewayup wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:44 pm
I would like to see continuity for next season, no good ever came from chopping and changing.
Would anybody really trust TW this summer with another decent budget, especially given that the budget is being cut again placing a greater emphasis on quality over quantity next season?

Maddison: Can’t command his area and has been replaced by Turner. Has been transfer-listed.

Burn: Poor and hasn’t featured since Christmas. Has been transfer-listed.

Hughes: Signed as a centre-midfielder but was too unfit to play there.

Ainge: Signed as a centre-forward but is finished in that position.

Elliott: Good signing. Get 6/10 from him every match.

Nicholson: Very good signing and technically quite gifted.

Henshall: Very poor signing and a lot worse than Gillies.

There are also questions marks over whether he should have let Turnbull & Gillies go as both would strengthen us.

So that’s 2 out of 7 summer signings that you can say were good. The rest were poor or not good enough for the roles they were signed for.

TW’s win percentage is poor, worse than last season, and the stats are padded with results against opposition who have self-capitualated.

Some people seem to forget that we have a top 7 budget last summer, and even with several cuts, we still should be operating at a position higher than where we are currently. For some reason it’s a miracle to some that we’ve stayed up.
The majority of his signings in the Summer were poor, I agree. A lot of the players he let go were good enough, and some better than what we have now, I agree.

However, he will have learned from his mistakes at this point, and will utilise the loan market and keep most of the current squad together if he's here next season. We need some consistency.
What makes you convinced he has learned and wil get it right spending the budget next year?

What if he just makes the same mistakes again?

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by lo36789 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:28 pm

I am not sure either Gillies or Turnbull staying was necessary our choice. Both made it clear they wanted to leave.

Also - I think if we thought Hughes was ok big money I suspect Gillies who had playing football for us as his full time job was on more.

I don’t really think gillies was particularly good value for money - maybe better than Henshall but I think there are more factors to Gillies / Turnbull leaving than simply TW not thinking he wanted them.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:33 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:28 pm
I am not sure either Gillies or Turnbull staying was necessary our choice. Both made it clear they wanted to leave.

Also - I think if we thought Hughes was ok big money I suspect Gillies who had playing football for us as his full time job was on more.

I don’t really think gillies was particularly good value for money - maybe better than Henshall but I think there are more factors to Gillies / Turnbull leaving than simply TW not thinking he wanted them.
The club accepted bids and left it to the players I believe. So if you are Turnbull & Gillies you play for a club who wants you or someone who is happy for you to go. They were both replaced mentally/budget wise by Hughes and Henshall, neither signing worked. I have no problem with a manager making changes and removing players but when you spend the money it's on the managers reputation if it doesn't work.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Darlogramps » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:34 pm

Darlo2807 wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:08 pm
onewayup wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:44 pm
I would like to see continuity for next season, no good ever came from chopping and changing.
Would anybody really trust TW this summer with another decent budget, especially given that the budget is being cut again placing a greater emphasis on quality over quantity next season?

Maddison: Can’t command his area and has been replaced by Turner. Has been transfer-listed.

Burn: Poor and hasn’t featured since Christmas. Has been transfer-listed.

Hughes: Signed as a centre-midfielder but was too unfit to play there.

Ainge: Signed as a centre-forward but is finished in that position.

Elliott: Good signing. Get 6/10 from him every match.

Nicholson: Very good signing and technically quite gifted.

Henshall: Very poor signing and a lot worse than Gillies.

There are also questions marks over whether he should have let Turnbull & Gillies go as both would strengthen us.

So that’s 2 out of 7 summer signings that you can say were good. The rest were poor or not good enough for the roles they were signed for.

TW’s win percentage is poor, worse than last season, and the stats are padded with results against opposition who have self-capitualated.

Some people seem to forget that we have a top 7 budget last summer, and even with several cuts, we still should be operating at a position higher than where we are currently. For some reason it’s a miracle to some that we’ve stayed up.
The majority of his signings in the Summer were poor, I agree. A lot of the players he let go were good enough, and some better than what we have now, I agree.

However, he will have learned from his mistakes at this point, and will utilise the loan market and keep most of the current squad together if he's here next season. We need some consistency.
Great irony with this statement is under TW we have been terminally inconsistent since he joined.

And not just in terms of results but also playing squad, formation and style. He had to can his strategy for the season by mid-December and bring in half a team on loan after the debacle against Nuneaton.

I'm delighted we're finally playing well and winning games now. But it's a shame it's taken us until April, when there's no real pressure on, for us to start improving.

And three good results, as uplifting as they are, don't cancel out 18 months of inconsistent, incoherent rubbish.




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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by jjljks » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:35 pm

Yes, we need consistency but currently there is no method or semblance of attacking play which is what we need to get people to come & watch us. Only 1311 to see us play BPA who could be promoted, on a sunny bank holiday really says it all for this season. MOTM was a loanee (Turner, GK who had kept us in the game). Even when the team come out onto the pitch, they look disjointed & without any 'bounce', very unprofessional & unfocussed. Only positives were Thommo's goal and the fact that loanees were keen to show their abilities. TW in last chance saloon

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:56 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:28 pm
I am not sure either Gillies or Turnbull staying was necessary our choice. Both made it clear they wanted to leave.

Also - I think if we thought Hughes was ok big money I suspect Gillies who had playing football for us as his full time job was on more.

I don’t really think gillies was particularly good value for money - maybe better than Henshall but I think there are more factors to Gillies / Turnbull leaving than simply TW not thinking he wanted them.
Gillies signed a new one-year deal under TW in April 18’.

I suspect that with a budget we had last summer we could have retained him if we really wanted, but TW let him go.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:06 pm

Darlo2807 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:18 pm
Darlofan97 wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:08 pm
onewayup wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:44 pm
I would like to see continuity for next season, no good ever came from chopping and changing.
Would anybody really trust TW this summer with another decent budget, especially given that the budget is being cut again placing a greater emphasis on quality over quantity next season?

Maddison: Can’t command his area and has been replaced by Turner. Has been transfer-listed.

Burn: Poor and hasn’t featured since Christmas. Has been transfer-listed.

Hughes: Signed as a centre-midfielder but was too unfit to play there.

Ainge: Signed as a centre-forward but is finished in that position.

Elliott: Good signing. Get 6/10 from him every match.

Nicholson: Very good signing and technically quite gifted.

Henshall: Very poor signing and a lot worse than Gillies.

There are also questions marks over whether he should have let Turnbull & Gillies go as both would strengthen us.

So that’s 2 out of 7 summer signings that you can say were good. The rest were poor or not good enough for the roles they were signed for.

TW’s win percentage is poor, worse than last season, and the stats are padded with results against opposition who have self-capitualated.

Some people seem to forget that we have a top 7 budget last summer, and even with several cuts, we still should be operating at a position higher than where we are currently. For some reason it’s a miracle to some that we’ve stayed up.
The majority of his signings in the Summer were poor, I agree. A lot of the players he let go were good enough, and some better than what we have now, I agree.

However, he will have learned from his mistakes at this point, and will utilise the loan market and keep most of the current squad together if he's here next season. We need some consistency.
Look at TW’s win percentages at this level please:

2015/2016: 15% (Corby Town)
2016/2017: 50% (Nuneaton)
2017/2018: 31% (Nuneaton)
2017/2018: 33% (Darlington FC)
2018/2019: 28% (Darlington FC)

Now the 17/18 with Nuneaton & 18/19 with us are interesting, because both seasons follow a full TW pre-season where he is given the chance to sign players etc. Both seasons before the win percentages were higher, so performances do actually drop.

But it’s okay because he will learn for his mistakes etc etc.

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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by LoidLucan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:27 pm

Maybe the tide is now turning with regards to TW's future. His comments after the game are quite interesting, and telling, I think. Referring to the upturn in results he said:

"It won't completely say sorry for what has been and gone but I think it will go some way to restoring a bit of faith. That's probably how we have to see it now. It's been a really frustrating, horrible, disappointing season for everybody. It's been one that we all want to forget.

"But if we can finish on a bit of a high, hopefully we can pick up spirits again and see where it takes us into the summer."

Wiseacre
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Re: TW - Learning His Trade

Post by Wiseacre » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:43 pm

He could learn from his experience, most of us do eventually but if he stays what do we really want ? I would say the last thing we want is promotion because it would break the club financially. A better showing certainly - which is what we're getting at the moment, albeit after 18 months of very variable stuff. My point is what kind of new manager would you get when basically you want several seasons of consolidation at this level ? If he's taken this on board we could do worst than stick with Tommy. I know this is all a bit downbeat but a decent top half showing next season should be enough for now - and maybe some form in the cups. Interesting to notice Martin Gray's name creeping into some of the threads. Would his return with Tommy as his number two be an option ? Tommy could be Prince Charming to Gray's Rumpelstiltskin.

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