Sporting Village

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poppyfield
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Sporting Village

Post by poppyfield » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:34 am

Help get the club back to Darlo by helping to spread the word about the "Back to Darlo!" fund. The image on the right will be constantly updated with the latest total so please feel free to use the image link below the thermometer on your own signatures, blogs, websites, etc.Image
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jjljks
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by jjljks » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:03 am

This would be the same "cash strapped" council who have cut staff, services, buses etc? Only lesson to be learned is never trust the council to do anything positive for our club.

JE93
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by JE93 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:09 am

That Richard Upshall bloke who tried to build a sporting village at BM must be wondering what he did wrong.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... h-council/

eek
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by eek » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:21 am

There is a small 6 month window every year in which the Council cares about certain types of schemes.

That 6 months is just before council elections - Mr Upshall just got his timing wrong.

SwansQuaker83
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:13 am

JE93 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:09 am
That Richard Upshall bloke who tried to build a sporting village at BM must be wondering what he did wrong.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... h-council/
Frankly I'd rather we'd got into bed with Upshall than the council and MP... I know someone who works for Upshall and is a good friend of his and he said he'd have been brilliant for us, straight down the line and genuinely cares about his projects, not just the profit...

MP and DBC will see us a revenue stream and nothing more to pay rent on leasing the facilities... but then so do DRFC so we're between a rock and a hard place.

H1987
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by H1987 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:26 am

I still don't really grasp the concept of it all, or how this is going to bring anything useful. What other sports are going to be played here, in this village exactly, if the football club and cricket club aren't involved?

I'm, quite frankly, surprised the council have underwritten this loan. There has to be significant risk they don't get it back. I could well see DMP going pop in the next couple of years.

I see the comments are full of the usual 'let the stadium host events', as though that'll make any difference. It won't generate anywhere near enough money with whatever they can attract. There is a limit to what a small town can host. It really is that simple.

The sustainable solution is to knock it down. Keep the main stand, knock the rest down if you still think you can make it work, but i'm dubious the Rugby club can.

spen666
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by spen666 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:31 am

SwansQuaker83 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:13 am
....

Frankly I'd rather we'd got into bed with Upshall than the council and MP... I know someone who works for Upshall and is a good friend of his and he said he'd have been brilliant for us, straight down the line and genuinely cares about his projects, not just the profit...

....

An obviously and unbiased reference

Is a good friend of someone going to say anything else



I have no idea about UPsall's character or how good he would have been, but do recall at the time, many on here were slating him as trying to undermine the club's existing plans to move back to Darlington and to be a chancer only in it for himself. Strange how the passage of time results in now he is being portrayed as having been the ideal partner for the club

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Spyman
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by Spyman » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:36 am

eek wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:21 am
There is a small 6 month window every year in which the Council cares about certain types of schemes.

That 6 months is just before council elections - Mr Upshall just got his timing wrong.
A small 6 month window every year which is half a year long?

Doesn't seem that small....
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

Darlo_Pete
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:53 am

The council shows itself as being two faced, one rule for Darlington MP and one rule for everybody else. Darlington MP are in serious financial trouble and they need help, Darlington BC come riding over the hill. The council elections are coming up in May, hopefully people will see through this scheme for drumming up support for the Labour run council.

I find it hard to see how this will benefit our club, hope I'm wrong as BM is not a long term solution for us.

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Lawman3
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by Lawman3 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:54 am

The Report suggests work is expected to start later this year, and be completed next year. But then it says the Planning Application is likely to be submitted later this year. Are they expecting a quick decision?
Never argue with an idiot: The best possible outcome is that you win an argument with an idiot.

LoidLucan
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:31 am

Lots of it just sounds airy-fairy like a "Sporting Centre of Excellence" and a "Village Green". It mentions a leisure centre but there's already one in the town, there are track and field facilities elsewhere in the town, there doesn't seem to be much in terms of attracting the biggest sporting club in the town - us - and the cricket club isn't moving anywhere.

The reality is that at the heart of it is looking at ways of saving the Arena, which is failing and destined to take down MP with it unless something gives. If all there is for us is a piece of land where we can build ourselves a ground and then pay rent and other costs then there is very little in a sporting village for Darlington FC. There's a lot in it for MP if it takes away the burden of running that giant, money-eating stadium with crowds of 700-800 (lots of them very cheap or free.)
Last edited by LoidLucan on Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

darlo_baron
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by darlo_baron » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:38 am

Lawman3 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:54 am
The Report suggests work is expected to start later this year, and be completed next year. But then it says the Planning Application is likely to be submitted later this year. Are they expecting a quick decision?
I imagine it will be a formality approving the plans, with the council guaranteeing loans of such value.

Very interesting the council's attitude towards a rugby club spunking 6 million up the wall in half a decade, is so different to our experiences. Whilst I appreciate their financial support, for the development of BM, I'm unsure how they can justify propping up the debts of a failing rugby club.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, if this scheme does progress without the involvement of ourselves or other clubs, such as the cricket club for example, then I'm not sure how it can be labelled a sporting village.

If we are to be involved I would hope the council and Mowden Park would look to be providing a favourable deal.
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Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:03 am

We need to be pointing out to the Cuntcil that they never propped us up when we were struggling - bunch of egg chasing bastards.

JE93
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by JE93 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:44 am

H1987 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:26 am
I still don't really grasp the concept of it all, or how this is going to bring anything useful. What other sports are going to be played here, in this village exactly, if the football club and cricket club aren't involved?

I'm, quite frankly, surprised the council have underwritten this loan. There has to be significant risk they don't get it back. I could well see DMP going pop in the next couple of years.

I see the comments are full of the usual 'let the stadium host events', as though that'll make any difference. It won't generate anywhere near enough money with whatever they can attract. There is a limit to what a small town can host. It really is that simple.

The sustainable solution is to knock it down. Keep the main stand, knock the rest down if you still think you can make it work, but i'm dubious the Rugby club can.
Tbh with the latest loan from the council I think DMP (meaning the actual rugby club) are now as well protected as they can be from any future insolvent events.

There are 3 companies:
Darlington Mowden Park Rugby Football Club Limited (Which is the rugby side. Rugby teams, memberships and commercial income).

Darlington Arena limited (Which owns the stadium) this is the entity which the council have provided the loan to. Which is 100% owned by Darlington Mowden Park Rugby Football Club Limited.

DMP Arena Trading Limited (Which operates the day to day of the stadium. E.g. the businesses that rent premises there etc). Which is 100% owned by Darlington Mowden Park Rugby Football Club Limited.

It means the risk is limited to Darlington Arena Limited as that is the only entity with any sizable assets. And now the assets in that company is mortgaged to the council. So in an insolvent event the stadium is repossessed by the council. At which point Darlington Mowden Park Rugby Football Club Limited can approach the council and say. We notice you have a large stadium with no occupants. Can't we rent it please. At which point the council can either get a small amount of rent, leave it empty and get nothing. Or make homeless a local sporting club and sell it off. In the short term at least I'd imagine the former would be the most preferable. Pretty decent planning tbh.

LoidLucan
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:55 am

The council admitted earlier this year what it was all about when it said: "The proposal, while it has significant risks, has real merit and holds out the possibility of enabling the arena to have a long term sustainable future...."

That's fantastic news for MP that they've got their future secured with the risks and danger taken off their shoulders. Not sure there's anything in this plan for us though.
Last edited by LoidLucan on Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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loan_star
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by loan_star » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:05 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:55 am
The council admitted earlier this year what it was all about when it said: "The proposal, while it has significant risks, has real merit and holds out the possibility of enabling the arena to have a long term sustainable future...."

That's fantastic news for MP that they've got their future secured with the risks and danger taken off their shoulders. Not sure there's anything in this plan fot us though.
I wonder if DBC would guarantee a £2.1m loan for us too?
Looks to me like this loan has been taken to pay off a previous loan, which in turn was used to pay off the loan before that too.

Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:13 pm

To be fair, if the s*** hit the fan and the council ended up owning the stadium, then equally we could make an offer to play there, or both us and Mowden could - without the worry of Mowden needing fixture preference. So long as they hadn't installed a placcy pitch or if placcy pitches were by then allowed by the league.

Ghost_Of_1883
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:13 pm

Dial A for the Arena.

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divas
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by divas » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:18 pm

Initial £800k loaned from Raj in 2106, re-financed last year with a £1.5m loan which has again been refinanced this year with a £2.02m loan. All 3 secured against the Arena and the last two both guaranteed by the council (once the SV had been agreed).

Suggests that the holding company for the Arena (which is separate to MPRFC is losing around £500k per year.

Presumably the land sale for housing will clear the loan and then the £500k pa black hole will be covered by rent and income from the SV which will mean that the Arena is finanlly sustainable.

I’d imagine the Arena will be handed over to a holding company set up to run the SV when the time comes and will be no longer owned by MPRFC therefore relinquishing their only asset which they paid around £2m for in 2013 so effectively the council (via the SV) will be buying the Arena for the amount that the stadium holding company owe in loans funded by a sale of adjacent (council owned) land for housing.

Shame they didn’t fancy doing this when we owed £2m to Scott & Sizer all those years ago - in fact if I remember rightly a similar proposal was put to them and it was turned down

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divas
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by divas » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:23 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:13 pm
To be fair, if the s*** hit the fan and the council ended up owning the stadium, then equally we could make an offer to play there, or both us and Mowden could - without the worry of Mowden needing fixture preference. So long as they hadn't installed a placcy pitch or if placcy pitches were by then allowed by the league.
If the loan isn’t paid off the council wouldn’t own the stadium. The council have guaranteed the loan but the loan is secured against the Arena. My take on this is that the Arena would pass to the lender and any shortfall would be recovered from DBC.

Once the SV concept is agreed and is moved forward with i believe the existing loan will re-paid from the DBC land sale and the Arena will then be transferred over to a holding company who will run the Arena and be responsible for the other infrastructure on a day to day basis. The other infrastructure (and potentially us) would then provide the revenue to offset the running costs and upkeep of the Arena.

Given the council guaranteed the loan of £1.5m taken out a year ago it’s been clear from that point that the SV will go ahead and there will be a land sale from current council owned land to pay this off. There’s no way they’ve have risked guaranteeing it otherwise as currently there is no way the Arena could break even let alone make a profit.

LoidLucan
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:38 pm

If the town's fan-owned football club was really valued as a true asset to the town (as it should be) the council's statement should have read something like this: "The Sporting Village includes exciting plans for an appropriate football stadium to house the town's biggest sports club and we look forward to working closely with Darlington FC and the other investors to make this a reality."

Some chance.....

spen666
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by spen666 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:13 pm

LoidLucan wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:38 pm
If the town's fan-owned football club was really valued as a true asset to the town (as it should be) the council's statement should have read something like this: "The Sporting Village includes exciting plans for an appropriate football stadium to house the town's biggest sports club and we look forward to working closely with Darlington FC and the other investors to make this a reality."

Some chance.....

ok I will ask the questions:
Why should it be [valued as a true asset to the town]? and
Wwhat does "valued as a true asset to the town" mean in practical terms?

Only around 1% of the population of the town watch the football club (a commercially run business)

Over the course of a year, many other commercially run businesses attract more customers than the football club.

If the council give land to this business why should they not give land to other businesses? Similarily if they give financial support to this business why not to other businesses?

There needs to be some sort of return for the council otherwise it is actually unlawful to give aid whether in form of land or finance. What return would the council get by giving land or financial aid to a football club?

The same is true of every professional football club in every town and the same comments apply.

onewayup
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by onewayup » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:42 pm

Double standards from the council re the MPRC and Darlington FC, council overstretch themselves to grant loans to MPRC, yet wouldn't do or get into any verbal communication with the football club. As regards to retaining it's being ,Strange to say at the very least.

LoidLucan
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by LoidLucan » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:24 pm

spen666 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:13 pm
LoidLucan wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:38 pm
If the town's fan-owned football club was really valued as a true asset to the town (as it should be) the council's statement should have read something like this: "The Sporting Village includes exciting plans for an appropriate football stadium to house the town's biggest sports club and we look forward to working closely with Darlington FC and the other investors to make this a reality."

Some chance.....

ok I will ask the questions:
Why should it be [valued as a true asset to the town]? and
Wwhat does "valued as a true asset to the town" mean in practical terms?

Only around 1% of the population of the town watch the football club (a commercially run business)

Over the course of a year, many other commercially run businesses attract more customers than the football club.

If the council give land to this business why should they not give land to other businesses? Similarily if they give financial support to this business why not to other businesses?

There needs to be some sort of return for the council otherwise it is actually unlawful to give aid whether in form of land or finance. What return would the council get by giving land or financial aid to a football club?

The same is true of every professional football club in every town and the same comments apply.
I really don't know why you're interested but instead aren't concentrating on your club fecking up yet another end of season but nevertheless....

Of course it should be valued as an asset to the town as it is the biggest sporting club in the town and has the real potential to be bigger. This would help to provide a boost for all the businesses on this site, both on match days and non-match days in terms of income and general interest in the sporting village and all its other facets. It would also provide a big boost in terms of the rent paid into this development and other income. There's a big, instant return. With a sympathetic council the football club would be a perfect fit for this development, most other businesses would not be.

Part of the remit of the council is to promote the health and well-being of its residents through sport and leisure. Here you have a club that has something like 13 youth teams, girls' teams and an Academy side, all doing their bit on quite a large scale to get the kids of this town interested in sporting activity... an asset to the town. The club is also heavily involved in the community, including supporting many charities.

The 1% who attend soon grows to 2% and beyond in better times and the council has been very quick to get involved in the reflected glory with receptions and the like when the team has enjoyed success such as title wins and FA Trophy success. They recognise the town's asset in these circumstances.

Yes the same is true of every other football club in every town and the more enlightened councils like York have bent over backwards to encourage and support their football clubs in community developments. They recognise it could be important in ensuring the success of the major investment. I could give you a list of others if you wanted. Darlington Council has said it recognises the value of sporting clubs coming together at a sporting village and therefore it should be doing more to make sure that the town's biggest club should be at the heart of it. It's common sense as much as anything.

And when it comes to fairness in dealing with all businesses, this is giving the very strong impression that it is not the case with Darlington sporting clubs, as evidenced by this huge guarantee being offered up for a rugby club which has been running out of cash and struggling with the overheads of that stadium.

So, all in all, you're talking shite.... again.

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Re: Sporting Village

Post by RonJeremy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:59 pm

H1987 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:26 am
I still don't really grasp the concept of it all, or how this is going to bring anything useful. What other sports are going to be played here, in this village exactly, if the football club and cricket club aren't involved?

I'm, quite frankly, surprised the council have underwritten this loan. There has to be significant risk they don't get it back. I could well see DMP going pop in the next couple of years.

I see the comments are full of the usual 'let the stadium host events', as though that'll make any difference. It won't generate anywhere near enough money with whatever they can attract. There is a limit to what a small town can host. It really is that simple.

The sustainable solution is to knock it down. Keep the main stand, knock the rest down if you still think you can make it work, but i'm dubious the Rugby club can.
Darlington isn’t a small town, contrary to popular belief. It could be very sustainable if the right people get their heads together and I think we have one of them with DJ.

shildonlad
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by shildonlad » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:09 pm

Football will pull in loads more than rugby in the town the council should see that more, the north east is hardly a rugby hotspot. I know a few landlords missed the business when the team played at bishop alot except one miserable landlady who did not want the extra punters. In sure eating places do well out of the club too and imagine the extra business they would get with a strong conference or efl side
I may not live in the north east anymore but i still support the north east teams

jjljks
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by jjljks » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:28 pm

Just to have the name of Darlington mentioned on national TV & radio, every Saturday during the season when they read out the results reminds the rest of the UK we are still here alive and kicking. It is free advertising which is an intangible asset, and currently there seems to be a conspiracy that even regional BBC & ITV never mention the club. The Sporting Village is a last chance for the Council and the rest of the teams in the town to get a proper facility that will be of benefit to the town, long into the future. I hope their £2.1M will genuinely be spread over a wide variety of clubs and that we are not frozen out but engaged during the planning stage.

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divas
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by divas » Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:49 pm

Their £2.1m is owed to a creditor.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:00 pm

While on the other hand DFC are pretty much debt free - yet we never seem to get any help from the council or respect.
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H1987
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Re: Sporting Village

Post by H1987 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:13 pm

Contrary to popular belief?? I mean, the statistics are there. I don't think there's an arbitrary definition of what constitutes small or large, but by most peoples measure, 100,000 people is a small town. Towns of that size, with the odd exception, do not need a sports stadium anywhere approaching the white elephant. You just need to look at our historic crowds. We have a natural level. Can it grow? Sure. But not *that* much.

There is no market in Darlington for a stadium that size for a sports team, be it football or rugby. There is no market for gigs at such a stadium, because big acts won't play in Darlington when there are other, better stadiums in larger urban areas nearby. There might be a very nice market for some exhibitions et al, but they simply won't make enough money to make it viable. The arena is not fit for purpose, and it never, ever will be in its current format.

I can't quite fathom in my head what they are planning and how it is going to prop up a failing rugby club in a stadium which looks shabbier and shabbier by the passing year. It's what, over a decade younger than the Riverside at Boro, but looks twenty years older because it just isn't looked after properly. Give it another few years and more, money sapping problems will appear, and whoever is the tenant will never make enough money to cover the cost.

I give DMP five years absolute max, unless this football club is stupid and misguided enough to bail them out financially.

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