FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

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QUAKERMAN2
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:00 am

I think the last point Spen raised regarding foreign players coming to a P/T club is very relevant.Wouldn't imagine for one minute they are on peanuts so unless they are significantly better than what we have got in order to keep us in this league, then it's a big gamble.

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JE93
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by JE93 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:11 am

spen666 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:54 am
The net café produced some interesting answers.

Interesting that DRFC get 20% from advertising boards. Makes Craig Morley's job harder to cover his salary as he is only bringing in 80% of board sales. Presumably DFC get 20% of sales by DRFC, although this was not mentioned.

DFC getting 10% of bar sales ( not profit)suprised me as profit on bar sales is probably not great. I was a little surprised DFC don't also get 20% on refreshment sales in ground.

The big things that stood out for me were,
1. The refusal to state length of contract for manager. This is normally provided, eg Man U given OGS a 3 year contract this week. Someone earlier suggested refusal was because board had given him an extension already.
On the flip side, it is unrealistic to expect details of remuneration of individuals, players or manager.

2. A lot of blame for budget issues was blamed on poor attendances. The Turnstile League suggests that attendances are only down by 1.85% (27 people per game). If that figure is correct, it doesn't accord with the sale of players and seemingly large cuts in playing budget during the season...unless someone got the budgets seriously wrong at start of season.

I wonder if calculating 5he budget they (over) optimistically included the legacy & the car deal as income before they got it. That could explain the shortfall, depending on size of legacy, which will be received at some time in future, so will be a nice boost then.

As a Chartered accountant, I can't help but look at the figures.

I note no one asked (or had questions answered) about the 2 new signings, is how did these players come to attention of club and more significantly, how can 2 overseas based players survive in NE on part time wages with seemingly no other connections, eg job, study or family to support them
They are connected through the new FD. Both are living at his house while they have contracts with us, so I would imagine they are no more costly (perhaps even less so) than any regular member of the squad.

All in all, barring the rebuttals around the length of Tommy and Alan's contracts, it was a very successful netcafe. Some decent questions answered and a good level of detail provided. Right call on Tommy not attending. Really would have been no benefit from him being there. Just needs to get us to the end of the season in this division and leave. Hopefully then we can generate a bit of excitement around the club in the summer under a new manager and look to next season with renewed optimism.

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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:35 am

Did not realise the 2 foreign lads are staying with JW, great gesture from him.If Tommy does leave at the end of the season and a new manager comes in, you just know a lot of interest will be re-ignited and will give us impetus going into the new season This is Darlo and in all honesty this is what the majority of fans will be looking for.

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spen666
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by spen666 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:41 am

JE93 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 11:11 am
spen666 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:54 am
The net café produced some interesting answers.

Interesting that DRFC get 20% from advertising boards. Makes Craig Morley's job harder to cover his salary as he is only bringing in 80% of board sales. Presumably DFC get 20% of sales by DRFC, although this was not mentioned.

DFC getting 10% of bar sales ( not profit)suprised me as profit on bar sales is probably not great. I was a little surprised DFC don't also get 20% on refreshment sales in ground.

The big things that stood out for me were,
1. The refusal to state length of contract for manager. This is normally provided, eg Man U given OGS a 3 year contract this week. Someone earlier suggested refusal was because board had given him an extension already.
On the flip side, it is unrealistic to expect details of remuneration of individuals, players or manager.

2. A lot of blame for budget issues was blamed on poor attendances. The Turnstile League suggests that attendances are only down by 1.85% (27 people per game). If that figure is correct, it doesn't accord with the sale of players and seemingly large cuts in playing budget during the season...unless someone got the budgets seriously wrong at start of season.

I wonder if calculating 5he budget they (over) optimistically included the legacy & the car deal as income before they got it. That could explain the shortfall, depending on size of legacy, which will be received at some time in future, so will be a nice boost then.

As a Chartered accountant, I can't help but look at the figures.

I note no one asked (or had questions answered) about the 2 new signings, is how did these players come to attention of club and more significantly, how can 2 overseas based players survive in NE on part time wages with seemingly no other connections, eg job, study or family to support them
They are connected through the new FD. Both are living at his house while they have contracts with us, so I would imagine they are no more costly (perhaps even less so) than any regular member of the squad.

All in all, barring the rebuttals around the length of Tommy and Alan's contracts, it was a very successful netcafe. Some decent questions answered and a good level of detail provided. Right call on Tommy not attending. Really would have been no benefit from him being there. Just needs to get us to the end of the season in this division and leave. Hopefully then we can generate a bit of excitement around the club in the summer under a new manager and look to next season with renewed optimism.

Thanks for update re players. That explains a lot & could potentially be a very good development for club as could encourage players to come as a shop window

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:43 pm

Quaker85 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:19 am
jjljks wrote:If the board won't tell me how long TW's contract is, especially when I & the entire world know how long Man Utd are giving Solly, I am not telling them if I am renewing my season ticket or not.
I guess they’ll know on 7th April.


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D_F_C
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by D_F_C » Sat Mar 30, 2019 12:50 pm

One thing that we do need to give TW credit on is the running of the academy which he’s doing on his own and not getting paid any extra. Having said that it’s not enough to keep his job if his contract is up. Need a manager that is willing to do the same


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QUAKERMAN2
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:23 pm

D_F_C wrote:One thing that we do need to give TW credit on is the running of the academy which he’s doing on his own and not getting paid any extra. Having said that it’s not enough to keep his job if his contract is up. Need a manager that is willing to do the same


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This is probably the side of the game best suited for Tommy.

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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by Yarblockos » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:03 pm

spen666 wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:54 am
The net café produced some interesting answers.

Interesting that DRFC get 20% from advertising boards. Makes Craig Morley's job harder to cover his salary as he is only bringing in 80% of board sales. Presumably DFC get 20% of sales by DRFC, although this was not mentioned.

DFC getting 10% of bar sales ( not profit)suprised me as profit on bar sales is probably not great. I was a little surprised DFC don't also get 20% on refreshment sales in ground.

The big things that stood out for me were,
1. The refusal to state length of contract for manager. This is normally provided, eg Man U given OGS a 3 year contract this week. Someone earlier suggested refusal was because board had given him an extension already.
On the flip side, it is unrealistic to expect details of remuneration of individuals, players or manager.

2. A lot of blame for budget issues was blamed on poor attendances. The Turnstile League suggests that attendances are only down by 1.85% (27 people per game). If that figure is correct, it doesn't accord with the sale of players and seemingly large cuts in playing budget during the season...unless someone got the budgets seriously wrong at start of season.

I wonder if calculating 5he budget they (over) optimistically included the legacy & the car deal as income before they got it. That could explain the shortfall, depending on size of legacy, which will be received at some time in future, so will be a nice boost then.

As a Chartered accountant, I can't help but look at the figures.

I note no one asked (or had questions answered) about the 2 new signings, is how did these players come to attention of club and more significantly, how can 2 overseas based players survive in NE on part time wages with seemingly no other connections, eg job, study or family to support them
Have to agree with most of these points. Players have been sold and the budget reduced and we still have a shortfall. The reduction in gates doesn't seem that substantial, so it still looks like there was a serious miscalculation at the start of the season.

With regards to TW's contract. Its very unusual for a manager to let his contract run down until it expires. Any manager will want some security and so will try and negotiate an extension at leat 6 months before it ends. Is Tommy really sat there letting his contract run out and allowing himself to be sacked with no compensation? I'd be pretty confident that they have already agreed a extension.

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divas
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by divas » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:43 pm

Why does a contract need to have a fixed end date?

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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by Quakerlad » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:51 pm

Maybe just me, but I was amazed that TW,s budget was set at £330k! Appreciate it was reduced as season went on but in terms of his summer recruitment was based on what seems a seriously decent budget. No wonder the play offs were the aim.

Makes his underperformance, particularly first half of season even more stark! Surely the club cannot trust him with an uncompetitive budget which will probably be the case next season.

onewayup
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by onewayup » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:35 am

We are fan owned it seems some fans think that we should overspend to attain higher league status, I for one think building slowly with cash that can be raised at any given time is the only sustainable way forward. I would never ever want to return to 2011/12 status, not knowing whether we had a club to support.

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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by Hair_Today » Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:05 pm

divas wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:43 pm
Why does a contract need to have a fixed end date?
Because if not, then like you can at work, a player could give notice and leave a club at will and without club getting compensation. Your work don't get compensation if you join another company.


The fixed term contracts in football ensure clubs can get compensation, but the downside is the need to pay off players you want to get rid off.

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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by Alfie » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:08 pm

Hair_Today wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:05 pm
divas wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:43 pm
Why does a contract need to have a fixed end date?
Because if not, then like you can at work, a player could give notice and leave a club at will and without club getting compensation. Your work don't get compensation if you join another company.


The fixed term contracts in football ensure clubs can get compensation, but the downside is the need to pay off players you want to get rid off.
I suppose a compromise would be a rolling contract, 6 mths or a year say - effectively gives the manager a degree of security and means the club can get rid without having to pay up a long remaing period

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dfc4me
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by dfc4me » Sun Mar 31, 2019 1:28 pm

Perhaps the board have simply refused to discuss a contract extension until they know for certain which division we will be in. Just because a manager wants to know if his contract will be extended doesn’t mean it will happen - he needs to prove he deserves it first.

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QuakerPete
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by QuakerPete » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:10 pm

onewayup wrote:We are fan owned it seems some fans think that we should overspend to attain higher league status, I for one think building slowly with cash that can be raised at any given time is the only sustainable way forward. I would never ever want to return to 2011/12 status, not knowing whether we had a club to support.
Agreed, we can only spend what we bring in - and even then, prudently


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divas
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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by divas » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:44 pm

Hair_Today wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:05 pm
divas wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:43 pm
Why does a contract need to have a fixed end date?
Because if not, then like you can at work, a player could give notice and leave a club at will and without club getting compensation. Your work don't get compensation if you join another company.


The fixed term contracts in football ensure clubs can get compensation, but the downside is the need to pay off players you want to get rid off.

Doesn’t have to be fixed though to still achieve security - as Alfie points out it could be a rolling deal with clauses for severance for both parties.

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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by bga » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:34 pm

I was a bit worried in the netcafe to see that DJ is trying to become the new Arthur Daley. Did anyone else spot the bit about trying to buy 2 BMWs for a certain price then selling them for a Higher price and giving the profit to the club? Seems to me this would have a number of pitfalls as we are after all a football club not a used car dealership. Maybe they have looked into it and if you use the cars for a day or two as company vehicles you can then dispose of them? Or maybe if he was buying and selling them any profit would just be a gift to the club

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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by Beano » Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:48 pm

bga wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:34 pm
I was a bit worried in the netcafe to see that DJ is trying to become the new Arthur Daley. Did anyone else spot the bit about trying to buy 2 BMWs for a certain price then selling them for a Higher price and giving the profit to the club? Seems to me this would have a number of pitfalls as we are after all a football club not a used car dealership. Maybe they have looked into it and if you use the cars for a day or two as company vehicles you can then dispose of them? Or maybe if he was buying and selling them any profit would just be a gift to the club
I interpreted it as quite the opposite - using his contacts and entrepreneurial skill to take a funding opportunity.

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Re: FANS NETCAFE -this Friday evening.

Post by bga » Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:05 pm

Beano wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:48 pm
bga wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:34 pm
I was a bit worried in the netcafe to see that DJ is trying to become the new Arthur Daley. Did anyone else spot the bit about trying to buy 2 BMWs for a certain price then selling them for a Higher price and giving the profit to the club? Seems to me this would have a number of pitfalls as we are after all a football club not a used car dealership. Maybe they have looked into it and if you use the cars for a day or two as company vehicles you can then dispose of them? Or maybe if he was buying and selling them any profit would just be a gift to the club
I interpreted it as quite the opposite - using his contacts and entrepreneurial skill to take a funding opportunity.
"Quite the opposite?" I wasn't saying it was a stupid idea just wondering how a football club could profit from this without having to jump through a number of hoops?

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