B T B Email

[Spyman]

Those are signings we have paid for. I work hard for my money (stop laughing) and don't want to see that pissed away on players who aren't bothered and a manager who cant make them bother.

Pretty much what Raj Singh said, and George Houghton, and George Reynolds.

I know where you're coming from, but we have to let the board make the decision over where the money goes and who gets to spend it - the less we provide the more we tie their hands and make lives difficult across the whole football club.

None of us want to see 'our' money wasted, but that's football. Some signings work out, others don't. Every football club owner has to accept that. We can't have our cake and eat it by saying we want a fan-owned club and we want it to be successful but we don't accept the risk that our money may not be well spent.

[MKDarlo]

Those are signings we have paid for. I work hard for my money (stop laughing) and don't want to see that pissed away on players who aren't bothered and a manager who cant make them bother.

Pretty much what Raj Singh said, and George Houghton, and George Reynolds.

I know where you're coming from, but we have to let the board make the decision over where the money goes and who gets to spend it - the less we provide the more we tie their hands and make lives difficult across the whole football club.

None of us want to see 'our' money wasted, but that's football. Some signings work out, others don't. Every football club owner has to accept that. We can't have our cake and eat it by saying we want a fan-owned club and we want it to be successful but we don't accept the risk that our money may not be well spent.

I don't disagree and therein lies the issue. I don't want to withhold by contribution but I do not have confidence it will be well used. We seem to be comfortable acknowledging failure and then rewarding that by giving Wright another go.

The money has to deliver the best possible return on the pitch. Do we think Wright has delivered the best possible return on the pitch in exchange for a "competitive" budget?

[Ghost_Of_1883]

PS i am not an impulsive kid.

To be fair, I said (IMO) that the "most likely" not to renew would be younger, more impulsive fans, not that it would only be that group.

So by you not renewing it doesn't make me think that you're a kid.

[Ghost_Of_1883]

Those are signings we have paid for. I work hard for my money (stop laughing) and don't want to see that pissed away on players who aren't bothered and a manager who cant make them bother.

Pretty much what Raj Singh said, and George Houghton, and George Reynolds.

I know where you're coming from, but we have to let the board make the decision over where the money goes and who gets to spend it - the less we provide the more we tie their hands and make lives difficult across the whole football club.

None of us want to see 'our' money wasted, but that's football. Some signings work out, others don't. Every football club owner has to accept that. We can't have our cake and eat it by saying we want a fan-owned club and we want it to be successful but we don't accept the risk that our money may not be well spent.

I don't disagree and therein lies the issue. I don't want to withhold by contribution but I do not have confidence it will be well used. We seem to be comfortable acknowledging failure and then rewarding that by giving Wright another go.

The money has to deliver the best possible return on the pitch. Do we think Wright has delivered the best possible return on the pitch in exchange for a "competitive" budget?

He could and should have done better - too many draws, and inept performances. I'm not sure just how competitive our budget is though, it's probably not as competitive as we thought, looking at the money awash in this league.

We have also had to reduce that budget by selling Styche and Syers, and have played many matches with Saunders and Thompson up top, due to Ainge not being available because of injury or covering at the back, and now he is back up front - he's not banging them in and everyone is on his case and cheering when he gets subbed.

Anyway, went off on a tangent there.

Everybody is entitled to renew or not renew for whatever reason - but not renewing certainly isn't going to help the club or it's cash flow.

[al_quaker]

Withdrawing your funding, therefore impacting the club's finances, because you don't like a manager is Raj Singh behaviour.

I'm not sure it's quite the same. Cancelling BtB midway through a season definitely is Singh behaviour. Choosing not to subsidise the club next season while budgets for next season are still being sorted out is somewhat different in my opinion.

[Comfortably_numb]

not having a go MK - as previously said fair play for you being honest - well done. and wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to donate.

think the point is that Darlo have probably had 70-80% ?? crap managers in our history.

So by the law of averages thats likely to continue.

think re-branding the BTB might be a good idea. We need to stick money into the club full stop and trust the board to allocate that accordingly (as they're doing)

[joejaques]

Don't need to renew mine, as it's on a Standing Order, so I would have to deliberately cancel it. This I have no intention of doing. We've worked too hard, for too long to lose it because some of us don't like the current manager.

[JE93]

I don't think re-branding the BTB would be a bad idea. I'll be continuing with my pledge. In truth if we want the cash to develop our football club both on and off the pitch it will require all areas of the club to pull their weight.

Us as fans to back the club through these funding initiatives and importantly get down to BM and watch our team (and drag as many people with us as possible). We need to keep backing the DFCSG through memberships, and partaking in the Darlo Fans Lottery.

We need the leadership to guide us through the next few years and provide a clear vision of what we need to do to achieve 'success'.

We need Craig to ensure the commercial side of the club continues to grow. We want all sponsors to renew their boards, and to fill in any gaps around the pitch etc. The back of shirt sponsor was a good idea, why not look for a training shirt sponsor etc. Make sure every match, match ball, player etc is sponsored.

The management and playing staff need to give us a team to be proud of. Think most would agree our performance at Blyth was one to be proud of. Not a pretty performance, but plenty of grit and application. Maybe even provide us with a cup run to add additional funds.

Once you start to look at all of those areas there are opportunities for growth in all of them. Growth which would give us the capital to further invest in our ambitions.

[divas]

I will be honest enough to admit I am torn over this. I acknowledge all that is said above about it being up to us to fund the club but I simply do not trust the manager to spend the money we give him sensibly. I have concerns over his ability to arrange and motivate a team, his tactical sense and, frankly, his ability to keep us in this division let alone push towards the business end.

We were told our efforts had delivered a competitive budget. We are in a relegation battle. We are in a relegation battle because the manger and his signings are simply not good enough.

Those are signings we have paid for. I work hard for my money (stop laughing) and don't want to see that pissed away on players who aren't bothered and a manager who cant make them bother.

I will offer financial support to the club via a different means if one exists. I don't think I will give Wright the chance to waste another year of our money. I know this wont be popular but is my position.

PS i am not an impulsive kid. I have been going for far too many years and spent money i don't have on supporting the club when it should have gone on other, more important, things. I have seen shite. Lots of shite. The difference is it wasn't my cash paying for it in the way it is now.

PPS I don't expect success. I support Darlo FFS! I do expect that when we are told we have a competitive budget we aren't stuck in a relegation fight with a number of players not up to the job and a manager who looks lost.

It’s good to have some honest feedback and I do get where you’re coming from - it certainly hurts more when you see a player who doesn’t look like he’s pulling his weight and you’re directly contributing to his wages rather than a single benefactor who owns the club. It does make you think what it must be like if you’re the one guy who is putting hundreds of times the amount in that we are individually. Of course he’s got the power to hire and fire but ultimately he’s guided by the manager in who he wants to sign to a fixed term contracts. You can sort of see where Raj was coming from in being pissed off handing over cash to players who didn’t seem to give a toss. Obviously he went about things in totally the wrong way after that tho...

As I mentioned above the manager situation doesn’t bother me too much. For me the money I put in is dictated by the faith I have in those running my club and whether i trust them to make the right decisions (which I do currently). Although at times it may not feel like it they’re in a privileged position of running a football club with someone else’s money - that’s not a criticism but a statement of fact. Whilst they don’t get remunerated for their work as someone pointed out above neither does a benefactor at this level. All I’d ask from the current incumbents is that they run the club and treat the money as if it were their own and if tough decisions need to be made for the good of the club they are made.

[super_les_mcjannet]

Fair play to MK Darlo, putting his view across and the essence of what he is saying isn't lost on most.

I will never feel in a position that I would try and tell MK Darlo to continue his input, it's a personal choice.

What works in terms of getting more people involved "Finance the club" or "Boost the budget" also which one gets the most criticism if we are not winning or we have to cut the budget.

[Darlogramps]

Withdrawing your funding, therefore impacting the club's finances, because you don't like a manager is Raj Singh behaviour.

I'm not sure it's quite the same. Cancelling BtB midway through a season definitely is Singh behaviour. Choosing not to subsidise the club next season while budgets for next season are still being sorted out is somewhat different in my opinion.

Would also point out that Raj Singh didn't give a toss about the club. The fans investing or considering investing in the B-T-B do, and are motivated by wanting to see the club succeed, unlike Singh who was only interested in money.

So those comparing B-T-B waverers to Singh, Houghton and Reynolds can do one as far as I'm concerned. It's bully-boy behaviour, trying to shame people into investing, and it's out of order.

The big issue here to me seems to be one of accountability. By even the club's admission, the B-T-B helped contribute to TW having a competitive budget in the summer, yet with two and a bit months to go, we're not even clear of the relegation fight. TW has also admitted allowing players (whose wages fans have contributed towards) to skive training. And just generally there's been a malaise around the club - look at the fall in attendances, particularly the Brackley game.

So in terms of accountability, some fans are thinking: "Why should he just get my money again? Why will things be different this time?" He's not done a good job, yet seems to have no repercussions to that. Reinvesting will be seen as rewarding failure.

That's why I'm choosing to put things on hold for now. Do I want to hand money over to some who's previously wasted it away? No. But I'm also conscious taking money away from the club isn't helping matters. I'd be a lot more comfortable knowing the money will not be wasted, which is why I'd rather it go towards the infrastructure, than into TW's hands.

Spyman raises the point that many transfers aren't successful, and this has always been the case. Surely the difference this time though is fans are directly involved here. The aspiration should be every signing he makes is a success. TW is, or should be, accountable to the owners - who are the supporters. If this isn't happening, something is going wrong fundamentally. That's where the concern and doubts about renewing come from.

I also think Ghost_of_1883 is being disappointingly patronising by saying "impulsive" kids are the ones most likely to not invest. There's concern about TW across a broad cross-section of our supporters. Just look at the falling attendances for one thing (and this is a much bigger issue than B-T-B, but that's for another thread).

And one other thing, if people decide not to invest because they feel TW has wasted money in the past, that's on TW, not on the individual fans. Pointing the finger at supporters who put money and saying: "You're responsible if things go wrong" is not on in my opinion.

[Spyman]

Withdrawing your funding, therefore impacting the club's finances, because you don't like a manager is Raj Singh behaviour.

I'm not sure it's quite the same. Cancelling BtB midway through a season definitely is Singh behaviour. Choosing not to subsidise the club next season while budgets for next season are still being sorted out is somewhat different in my opinion.

Would also point out that Raj Singh didn't give a toss about the club. The fans investing or considering investing in the B-T-B do, and are motivated by wanting to see the club succeed, unlike Singh who was only interested in money.

So those comparing B-T-B waverers to Singh, Houghton and Reynolds can do one as far as I'm concerned. It's bully-boy behaviour, trying to shame people into investing, and it's out of order.

The big issue here to me seems to be one of accountability. By even the club's admission, the B-T-B helped contribute to TW having a competitive budget in the summer, yet with two and a bit months to go, we're not even clear of the relegation fight. TW has also admitted allowing players (whose wages fans have contributed towards) to skive training. And just generally there's been a malaise around the club - look at the fall in attendances, particularly the Brackley game.

So in terms of accountability, some fans are thinking: "Why should he just get my money again? Why will things be different this time?" He's not done a good job, yet seems to have no repercussions to that. Reinvesting will be seen as rewarding failure.

That's why I'm choosing to put things on hold for now. Do I want to hand money over to some who's previously wasted it away? No. But I'm also conscious taking money away from the club isn't helping matters. I'd be a lot more comfortable knowing the money will not be wasted, which is why I'd rather it go towards the infrastructure, than into TW's hands.

Spyman raises the point that many transfers aren't successful, and this has always been the case. Surely the difference this time though is fans are directly involved here. The aspiration should be every signing he makes is a success. TW is, or should be, accountable to the owners - who are the supporters. If this isn't happening, something is going wrong fundamentally. That's where the concern and doubts about renewing come from.

I also think Ghost_of_1883 is being disappointingly patronising by saying "impulsive" kids are the ones most likely to not invest. There's concern about TW across a broad cross-section of our supporters. Just look at the falling attendances for one thing (and this is a much bigger issue than B-T-B, but that's for another thread).

And one other thing, if people decide not to invest because they feel TW has wasted money in the past, that's on TW, not on the individual fans. Pointing the finger at supporters who put money and saying: "You're responsible if things go wrong" is not on in my opinion.

I certainly didn't intend to be 'bullying' as you put it - my reference to those previous owners was slightly tongue in cheek.

Tommy is accountable to the Board as far as I'm aware, who in turn are accountable to the owners. If we don't feel Wright is doing a good enough job then we as owners should be challenging the board to make the decisions that need making.

I don't think tying the clubs hands financially is the way to do this.

If people don't want to donate then that is their choice and there may be a multitude of reasons behind that choice. Clubs budgets go up and down season by season all the time for a variety of reasons. If ours goes down because the 'owners' feel less inclined to put money in then so be it and we just have to cut our cloth accordingly.

Of course, when a single owner/benefactor does this the response of the majority of football fans is to criticise them - that's not how I want a community-led club to be run and that's an attitude we surely want rid of.

The Board need to build confidence through the decisions they make - if the decision is to stick with Wright it will influence some people's decision making, others it won't. If it results in a considerable drop in donations then it's probably fairly easy for the Board to draw conclusions as to why, and they can act accordingly.

[OnTheTerraces]

Im certainly continuing and even upping mine.

I was at Eastbourne last night and popped round to see the first team train. I noticed the new FD was there. I had a 5/10 minute chat with him. What a nice chap!! He doesn't divulge top secret information (i tried to coax it out of him but he just laughed) but he knows how a footy club should be set up and we are making big strides.

Things are changing rapidly, for the better and the infrastructure is changing rapidly to a more professional approach on and off the field. I witnessed it last night on the playing side and we will all see it on Saturday.

New FD is a shining light in a dark tunnel and we are in good hands if we support the club.

COMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN DARLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[onewayup]

Agree with all that has been posted previously, however the crux of the sustainability of the club is we as owners have a duty of care for future generations, so need to keep funding our club to the best of our abilities.

[onewayup]

We as a fan owned club Have to look outside the box to help fund our club, monies spent at Blackwell bar and food are small percentage, s to our club this has to change one way or another, hopefully something can be sorted to help our finances over the coming years. Be it somewhere on the way to the ground to socially get together or something else I don't know but throwing it in there to see what you fan's think.

[wizardofos]

I can see us approaching a situation where income will not even cover the general expenses of running the Club (ie: the costs other than wages for playing and coaching staff).
A quick look at the last few sets of accounts shows that the costs other than playing and coaching staff were: 2016 £252k, 2017 £321k, 2018 £349k. These costs alone have overtaken our total annual income in the first three years of fan ownership.
The BTB is absolutely essential because it may constitute the entire playing budget, unless (as has been said earlier) other income streams can be improved quickly.

[super_les_mcjannet]

I can see us approaching a situation where income will not even cover the general expenses of running the Club (ie: the costs other than wages for playing and coaching staff).
A quick look at the last few sets of accounts shows that the costs other than playing and coaching staff were: 2016 £252k, 2017 £321k, 2018 £349k. These costs alone have overtaken our total annual income in the first three years of fan ownership.
The BTB is absolutely essential because it may constitute the entire playing budget, unless (as has been said earlier) other income streams can be improved quickly.

I guess it's breaking them costs down.

41k legal fees, be nice to have an explanation but hopefully that can be reduced to as little as £0 this year.
26k Depreciation, well it's not a real loss but shows it on the P&L.
123k Match Day Costs - that's a massive amount and interested to understand a breakdown of those.

I would expect the board to have an idea of where we should land season 18/19 on every item on the P&L, be good when they release a years accounts they also release a narrative of each line and an expectation of where we should be the next year.

[QuakerPete]

I can see us approaching a situation where income will not even cover the general expenses of running the Club (ie: the costs other than wages for playing and coaching staff).
A quick look at the last few sets of accounts shows that the costs other than playing and coaching staff were: 2016 £252k, 2017 £321k, 2018 £349k. These costs alone have overtaken our total annual income in the first three years of fan ownership.
The BTB is absolutely essential because it may constitute the entire playing budget, unless (as has been said earlier) other income streams can be improved quickly.

Any extraordinary items in these figures and do you have total income for these years excluding transfer fees?


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[loan_star]

Spyman raises the point that many transfers aren't successful, and this has always been the case. Surely the difference this time though is fans are directly involved here. The aspiration should be every signing he makes is a success. TW is, or should be, accountable to the owners - who are the supporters. If this isn't happening, something is going wrong fundamentally. That's where the concern and doubts about renewing come from.

Do you want the moon on a stick too? Even the most successful managers we have ever had have all signed some duffers, even when they had more of a free reign to sign virtually who they wanted. Wanting virtually every signing to be a success just isn't going to happen.

Would also point out that Raj Singh didn't give a toss about the club. The fans investing or considering investing in the B-T-B do, and are motivated by wanting to see the club succeed, unlike Singh who was only interested in money.

If the fans do give a toss then its even more reason for them to contribute.

[Darlogramps]

Do you want the moon on a stick too? Even the most successful managers we have ever had have all signed some duffers, even when they had more of a free reign to sign virtually who they wanted. Wanting virtually every signing to be a success just isn't going to happen.

Ooooh look Daddy, a strawman argument.

Nowhere did I say I expect every signing TW makes to be a surefire success. But, shockingly, I think we should aspire to that. It'd be weird for TW to sign players thinking "he's not going to do much for us". It usually helps to read and understand people's posts properly before responding to them.

And I'd imagine every fan also wants every signing to be a success. So "wanting" and "aspiring" for all signings to be a success is absolutely going to happen. There is a difference between "wanting" and "expecting" which you don't seem to have grasped.

And the wider point is TW screwed up our summer recruitment, and relied on a raft on loan signings to bail us out in December. Only Nicholson I would class as being a success (maybe Elliot if I'm being kind but he's been inconsistent). TW made seven permanent summer signings - it's not unreasonable to expect a bigger hit rate than 1 in 7. And when we do have a bad summer of recruitment, I'd expect us to be looking at how to prevent that happening again. That's what I mean by accountability.

Shrugging our shoulders and going "Well that's football" as you're doing isn't a particularly forward-thinking approach. But maybe you just have low expectations.

Would also point out that Raj Singh didn't give a toss about the club. The fans investing or considering investing in the B-T-B do, and are motivated by wanting to see the club succeed, unlike Singh who was only interested in money.

If the fans do give a toss then its even more reason for them to contribute.

Handing money to TW, who's messed up a competitive budget already, isn't the only way for fans to demonstrate they give a toss.

By implication, do you think fans who don't renew or invest in the B-T-B don't give a toss?

[wizardofos]

I can see us approaching a situation where income will not even cover the general expenses of running the Club (ie: the costs other than wages for playing and coaching staff).
A quick look at the last few sets of accounts shows that the costs other than playing and coaching staff were: 2016 £252k, 2017 £321k, 2018 £349k. These costs alone have overtaken our total annual income in the first three years of fan ownership.
The BTB is absolutely essential because it may constitute the entire playing budget, unless (as has been said earlier) other income streams can be improved quickly.

Any extraordinary items in these figures and do you have total income for these years excluding transfer fees?


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Pete, turnover (excluding transfer fees) from the accounts:
2015 - £345k
2016 - £350k
2017 - £495k
2018 - £647k (included BTB)
There always seems to be some exceptional costs!

My general point was declining attendances versus increasing general costs means that the owners need to put in extra money (BTB).

[QuakerPete]

I can see us approaching a situation where income will not even cover the general expenses of running the Club (ie: the costs other than wages for playing and coaching staff).
A quick look at the last few sets of accounts shows that the costs other than playing and coaching staff were: 2016 £252k, 2017 £321k, 2018 £349k. These costs alone have overtaken our total annual income in the first three years of fan ownership.
The BTB is absolutely essential because it may constitute the entire playing budget, unless (as has been said earlier) other income streams can be improved quickly.

Any extraordinary items in these figures and do you have total income for these years excluding transfer fees?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pete, turnover (excluding transfer fees) from the accounts:
2015 - £345k
2016 - £350k
2017 - £495k
2018 - £647k (included BTB)
There always seems to be some exceptional costs!

My general point was declining attendances versus increasing general costs means that the owners need to put in extra money (BTB).

Yes, my concerns were more about club survival going forward rather than how much BTB would require. And I think a regular giving scheme / fans’ contribution scheme is now part of the fabric to survive


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[loan_star]

.

Nowhere did I say I expect every signing TW makes to be a surefire success. But, shockingly, I think we should aspire to that.

Don't you think every manager wants all their signings to be sure fire successes? It just isnt going to happen.
Out of the summer signings theres Nicholson, Hughes and Elliott who have been a success in one way or another. Ainge was a gamble that hasn't paid off but has a decent track record. Henshall and Maddison dont seem to have worked out. However I dont recall many saying that these lads werent decent signings at the time and everyone had big hopes for Ainge.
His loan signings this season have been decent although we didnt see much of the lad from Leeds so I dont I'm not passing judgement on him.
If we look back at last season, Wright signed Heaton, Trotman, Styche and O'Hanlon and nobody can say they were bad signings.
So overall his transfer record isnt bad, more decent players than bad ones.
Add that to the fact that he has made massive strides in setting up the academy, for the benefit of the club rather than his own private company (which he could have) then I think Wright has done more good than bad over his time here.

[quakerste]

I believe the DFSG membership should be increased from the current level of £20. The fans at the end of the day are the investors and without the help of a rich owner the onus is on us to keep the club going.

My suggestion would be an annual payment of £100 which would generate 100k, if the current members were to get on board. If we could increase the membership this could generate a bit more cash.

[onewayup]

And how many members would we lose after they baulk at such a steep rise. Think you're over ambitious expecting members to pay that much.
Some can and would probably pay, but would the majority I don't think so. Better we ask for donations
Than ailianate the members. Who help keep the club going.

[divas]

I believe the DFSG membership should be increased from the current level of £20. The fans at the end of the day are the investors and without the help of a rich owner the onus is on us to keep the club going.

My suggestion would be an annual payment of £100 which would generate 100k, if the current members were to get on board. If we could increase the membership this could generate a bit more cash.

In an ideal world that would be the way to do it, that would be your boost the budget scheme (or whatever you want to call it) although I think £10 per month would be a better option as people are used to paying for things monthly these fags and you miss £10 a month less than £100 at once. I’d certainly like to see more people getting involved that way than a smaller number of people putting significant sums in.

In reality having seen the members there are quite a lot of families enrolled who have 3/4/5 people in the household so it then becomes quite expensive. Also some people have more money than others so would put in more and some less.

I think it’s certainly something that should be explored and members consulted though. Maybe we raise for £5 per month and allow people to put in more if they want?

[divas]

And how many members would we lose after they baulk at such a steep rise. Think you're over ambitious expecting members to pay that much.
Some can and would probably pay, but would the majority I don't think so. Better we ask for donations
Than ailianate the members. Who help keep the club going.

I get what you’re saying and do agree to a certain extent however the number of members isn’t really important in keeping the club going, the revenue generated is. If you generated £25,000 from 250 people rather than £20,000 from 1,000 people surely that’s a better position to be in is it not?

It all boils down to how much people value owning their club.

Looking at it a different way at the moment we’ve got around £100k coming in from the fans through boost the budget and dfcsg subs so in effect we have got the same as 1,000 people paying £100 per year it’s just there’s a wide range of amounts rather than everyone paying the same

[quakersfan]

I think most of the 1000 members would be happy to pay £50 membership perhaps spread over 2 instalments August and January’s it would make a huge difference to the coffers roughly an increase of £30k. With more people likely joining to vote on future location it could be the right time, at the end of the day without outside investment it’s the fans who have to dig deep.

[super_les_mcjannet]

I think most of the 1000 members would be happy to pay £50 membership perhaps spread over 2 instalments August and January’s it would make a huge difference to the coffers roughly an increase of £30k. With more people likely joining to vote on future location it could be the right time, at the end of the day without outside investment it’s the fans who have to dig deep.

I doubt many would be willing to give £50 to be a member. Also the 20k currently raised doesn't all go into the club I believe, as some is put away to ensure DFCSG have some cash to pay back the share purchase in a couple of years time.

Anyhow no doubt the investor you keep advising we need & we all want will turn up soon and we can all stop putting money in.

[quakersfan]

I think most of the 1000 members would be happy to pay £50 membership perhaps spread over 2 instalments August and January’s it would make a huge difference to the coffers roughly an increase of £30k. With more people likely joining to vote on future location it could be the right time, at the end of the day without outside investment it’s the fans who have to dig deep.

I doubt many would be willing to give £50 to be a member. Also the 20k currently raised doesn't all go into the club I believe, as some is put away to ensure DFCSG have some cash to pay back the share purchase in a couple of years time.

Anyhow no doubt the investor you keep advising we need & we all want will turn up soon and we can all stop putting money in.

Why do you shoot me down when I mention the prospect of any outside investment are you so bolted to the idea it can only be a purely fan funded model.

There may well not be any potential investors out there my question has always been have we talked/talking to anyone. If we end up getting our own plot at the Arena on a long term lease 100 years etc you may find some investors start being interested as they will see a return.

One thing imo and I’m allowed to have one is that we have reached a plateau with the current model, however I’d doesnt stop me putting my own money into BTB and this season attended hospitality 10-12 times.