Re: Club Accounts
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:26 am
And that seems reasonable.
The number one Darlington FC fan's website
https://www.darlofc.co.uk:443/forum/
https://www.darlofc.co.uk:443/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37179
Agree this seems to be a communication issue rather than anything sinister. Assuming the payment was in relation to the commercial role it might have been even better to announce it at the time it started.Vodka_Vic wrote:Good explanation Mikky. I guess the issue here is really therefore unclear communication. On his leaving statement it should have read 'Was unpaid apart from a commercial role he took on'.
But it's not a bonus, is it? It's commission. Would you not accept your monthly pay? No. The commercial job, which we are assuming this was relative too, paid commission, so you're arguing oranges and apples.beatroute66 wrote:I think Mikky, and others who have said similar, are probably right. I think/hope that this £10,500 is a % slice of £50k-£100k of commercial revenue brought in across one financial year.
I don’t have any beef with people making money for making their organisation money and I really hope that Craig Morley gets the opportunity to make regular bonuses whilst with DFC, as the implication would be that he would have made the club a decent amount of money in that time.
But as I allude to above, as a Company Director myself, if I hit my personal annual commercial target (entitling me to a bonus), but others didn’t and the company made a tiny profit, broke even or made a loss, I would not take that bonus. Contractually, if my company did break even at best, I wouldn’t even be given the choice and we included this within our employment contracts to safeguard the business long term.
Morally it wouldn’t be right (IMO) and also I’m smart enough to recognise the longer term benefits of having a stake in a healthy business over the short-term hit of taking money out of something that is already struggling.
And that’s my point/beef with this.
I’m sure the £10,500 is all fair game and has been rightfully earned as per an agreement/contract, *but*, given the state of the club’s finances and that – as a Director – there is a responsibility to safeguard the organisation moving forward, I’d morally question taking that bonus.
I’m not criticising John’s work nor doubting all of the free stuff he will have done for DFC, but I am questioning that particular point and would say the same about anyone taking money from the club in a similar fashion. Again, my opinion only.
I absolutely get the theory that we have to pay a salary to someone whose job it is to increase revenue (ie, we would miss out on 'X' revenue by not paying someone 'Y'), as long as – no sh1t sherlock – that person pays for themselves *at the very least* and isn’t part of a scheme that pays them a bonus to the detriment of the business.
If so, you’d have to question motives, long term stability and where that leaves all of the folk who do important (on the face of it) non-revenue generating work without ever receiving a dime.
But if folk are fine with all of that, then no problem.
Bonus/commission - semantics at the end of the day.HarryCharltonsCat wrote:But it's not a bonus, is it? It's commission. Would you not accept your monthly pay? No. The commercial job, which we are assuming this was relative too, paid commission, so you're arguing oranges and apples.
Thank you - no worries.HarryCharltonsCat wrote:It's not semantics if a post is commission only - that's pay not bonus. The commercial job wasn't a voluntary post either. No suggestion he was paid for his Director role, which was voluntary.
Each to their own - I have no qualms with this, but am on the same page as regards the rest of your views.
But he's not taken a salary. He's been paid this bonus/commission to presumably cover his own costs at time which he has taken away from his own business.beatroute66 wrote:
I absolutely get the theory that we have to pay a salary to someone whose job it is to increase revenue (ie, we would miss out on 'X' revenue by not paying someone 'Y'), as long as – no sh1t sherlock – that person pays for themselves *at the very least* and isn’t part of a scheme that pays them a bonus to the detriment of the business.
Oh, I was talking about Craig Morley at that point in terms of moving forward (apologies for not being clear).Spyman wrote: But he's not taken a salary. He's been paid this bonus/commission to presumably cover his own costs at time which he has taken away from his own business.
The club did advertise for people to take on for Commercial work at a commission basis, can't remember exactly when but within the last two years. That doesn't explain why the club didn't announce that Tempest was taking this on, whilst no one else had applied.beatroute66 wrote:Oh, I was talking about Craig Morley at that point in terms of moving forward (apologies for not being clear).Spyman wrote: But he's not taken a salary. He's been paid this bonus/commission to presumably cover his own costs at time which he has taken away from his own business.
And I get everything else you say - it evidently wasn't communicated properly previously (unless I and others missed it...) and it's my view that that £10k should have stayed with the club.
Just my view.
Turnover is up as it includes the funding for the new stand I believe, this maybe down as donations.beatroute66 wrote:In other respects, current 'real time' financial plight aside, the latest set of accounts make for decent reading – t/over is up £214k, GP is up £82k and the operating loss figure is down by £85k from 2017.
Matchday income is up £3k, transfer fees received are up £62k as is ‘miscellaneous income’ by £167k. Unfortunately commercial income is down by £11k and retail/merch by £8k. Clearly not for the want of trying on anyone’s behalf.
Cost of sales has gone up, mind, by £131k – playing staff costs are up £105k, matchday costs are up £36k, legal/professional fees are up £40k and there are £5k of ‘sundry expenses’ that weren’t there in 2017.
I note donations were at £157k and lottery income at just over £18k. Fair play to everyone.
We have often questioned/debated on here how much rent we pay DRC. Isn't the answer in the accounts under "Rent & Rates" shows £41,841 up from £38,548 in 2017? Not sure if this would include any other "Services" we pay DRC for?super_les_mcjannet wrote:Turnover is up as it includes the funding for the new stand I believe, this maybe down as donations.beatroute66 wrote:In other respects, current 'real time' financial plight aside, the latest set of accounts make for decent reading – t/over is up £214k, GP is up £82k and the operating loss figure is down by £85k from 2017.
Matchday income is up £3k, transfer fees received are up £62k as is ‘miscellaneous income’ by £167k. Unfortunately commercial income is down by £11k and retail/merch by £8k. Clearly not for the want of trying on anyone’s behalf.
Cost of sales has gone up, mind, by £131k – playing staff costs are up £105k, matchday costs are up £36k, legal/professional fees are up £40k and there are £5k of ‘sundry expenses’ that weren’t there in 2017.
I note donations were at £157k and lottery income at just over £18k. Fair play to everyone.
Gross Profit is up largely due to the miscellaneous income, which I believe it the money for the seated stand again.
In all honesty the accounts should have a commentary on each line item, back to being open and honest. Would even be good to look at some predictions for this year also - or am I expecting too much and this should just be kept to the boards?
With some seeing mistrust in the board with Craig Morley now 3 months into his role I’d be interested to see how much profit we have made against salary. Don’t need to know salary but as a fan owned club can Chris Stockdale provide these figures or are they secret until next AGM in 2020?super_les_mcjannet wrote:The club did advertise for people to take on for Commercial work at a commission basis, can't remember exactly when but within the last two years. That doesn't explain why the club didn't announce that Tempest was taking this on, whilst no one else had applied.beatroute66 wrote:Oh, I was talking about Craig Morley at that point in terms of moving forward (apologies for not being clear).Spyman wrote: But he's not taken a salary. He's been paid this bonus/commission to presumably cover his own costs at time which he has taken away from his own business.
And I get everything else you say - it evidently wasn't communicated properly previously (unless I and others missed it...) and it's my view that that £10k should have stayed with the club.
Just my view.
Also doesn't confirm the Virgin Train deal as that was over two years ago, I would assume Tempest agreed a deal in advance of the Virgin Train deal if he has used this in his explanation.
Take your point but after criticism on a volunteer doing commercial it would be interesting to know how a paid member of staff is doing, I’d imagine he must be on some sort of probation.super_les_mcjannet wrote:Unless you have a really good message to give then I think an update after 3 months could be unfair, Morley may well tread water for a while. Commercial needs to be built up over years, many say the summer is the busiest period for Commercial in advance of the next season, sadly Morley missed this period.
The club could give an indication but imagine if this wasn't going well, half the fan base would want shot without even thinking this may well take some time to turn around.
Exactly.super_les_mcjannet wrote:Unless you have a really good message to give then I think an update after 3 months could be unfair, Morley may well tread water for a while. Commercial needs to be built up over years, many say the summer is the busiest period for Commercial in advance of the next season, sadly Morley missed this period.
The club could give an indication but imagine if this wasn't going well, half the fan base would want shot without even thinking this may well take some time to turn around.
That's putting it mildly.Spyman wrote:but I doubt we're the easiest sell out there.
Looking around the ground there’s more sponsorship and having been in corporate twice over Christmas it was heaving so he’s doing a great job but I suppose Stockdale will have to offset that success against what he’s being paid.Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:That's putting it mildly.Spyman wrote:but I doubt we're the easiest sell out there.
Morley will have his work cut out for sure. It's a high pressure job as well because not only are you trying to bring extra business in but you also have to justify your salary - not saying this about CM in particular, it applies in any sales job.
If I was ever bored enough or imaginative enough to think of the 100 worst, and most terrible jobs that I would like to do, I reckon DFC commercial manager would be bottom of that pile.
You've got to admire anyone who steps up to do it, and doubly admire anyone who can actually succeed at it - most people wouldn't succeed. As others have said, CM will need time.
When are the accounts up to, June 18? Making the accounts basically cover the 17/18 season? I should have received them but don't seem to have.LoidLucan wrote:I'm sure that there is an obvious explanation that I am missing for the huge increase in Legal and Professional fees that rose from £730 in the year to June 30, 2017, to £40,734 in the year to June 30, 2018.
It still looks scary to look back on that overall £157,976 loss for 2017 even if it was a less scary £72,846 loss for 2018.
Other costs that are being attended now are the £350,799 playing staff costs in 2018 which had risen from £245,169 in 2017. Other staff costs were £72,615 in 2018 compared to £96,012 in 2017.
Transfer fees paid for the year to June 30, 2018, were £22,500 (Styche mainly?) compared to £4,167 in 2017.
Rent and rates cost £38,548 in the year to June 30, 2017, rising to £41,841 to June 30, 2018.
Gate and matchday income was £298,096 for 2018 compared to £294,753 for 2017.
Commercial and sponsorship brought in £55,441 in 2018 down from £66,300 on 2017. I'm sure that will now be very much on the up with our new appointment.
Transfer cash received was £76,501 (thank God) for 2018 compared to £14,000 in 2017.
Stockdale???.Who the hell is Stockdale?quakersfan wrote:Looking around the ground there’s more sponsorship and having been in corporate twice over Christmas it was heaving so he’s doing a great job but I suppose Stockdale will have to offset that success against what he’s being paid.Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:That's putting it mildly.Spyman wrote:but I doubt we're the easiest sell out there.
Morley will have his work cut out for sure. It's a high pressure job as well because not only are you trying to bring extra business in but you also have to justify your salary - not saying this about CM in particular, it applies in any sales job.
If I was ever bored enough or imaginative enough to think of the 100 worst, and most terrible jobs that I would like to do, I reckon DFC commercial manager would be bottom of that pile.
You've got to admire anyone who steps up to do it, and doubly admire anyone who can actually succeed at it - most people wouldn't succeed. As others have said, CM will need time.
Of course he is.Totally got the wrong end of the stick of that post.super_les_mcjannet wrote:Stockdale is Chris Stockdale, chairman of DFCSG and the man looking after the club finances.
Someone we want to encourage to continue being involved with our club.