Darlington V Nuneaton

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grimsbyquaker
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by grimsbyquaker » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:20 pm

We can’t afford to sustain a strong team in NLN yet we also can’t afford relegation

Vodka_Vic
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:22 pm

The answer is someone like John Flanagan or Paul Holleran who can organise teams on lesser budgets but use the local loan market really well.

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Quaker85
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by Quaker85 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:33 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:The answer is someone like John Flanagan or Paul Holleran who can organise teams on lesser budgets but use the local loan market really well.
I was surprised when Curzon sacked Flannigan as he’d done a brilliant job with the resources he had at his disposal. The only negative I can think of is that their home results are terrible.

Ring any bells?


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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by shildonlad » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:36 pm

Steve watson managed to assemble a squad of local lads at gatehead. The few which aint from gateshead live there now so it can be done. Pretty sure most of spennymooor lads are local too


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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:39 pm

Forget Flanagan as his base is nearer Manchester.Has to be nearer Darlo.

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grimsbyquaker
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by grimsbyquaker » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:43 pm

As has been said, serious costings need to be done with regard to the impact of relegation as, face it, there are currently not three teams worse than us. We seemingly can’t sustain NLN football...our squad has an admin look about it with a 17 year old being our most experienced sub. If we go down surely BM is too expensive to afford with lower crowds and still lots of 500 club money tied up

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grimsbyquaker
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by grimsbyquaker » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:48 pm

If going down is going to finish us off then the club must move heaven and earth to keep us up. We know what that entails. Something doesn’t quite add up though at the moment. The club appear to be holding back

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by Beano » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:54 pm

Whoever comes after Wright, whenever that may be, needs to be relatively local - they need to have a far better handle on the local player market.

Put his failings and finances to one side, Gray certainly knew the North East scene inside out, and knew the players to advance us when necessary.

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by LoidLucan » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:10 pm

We need to be a north east club with a north east-based manager with north east contacts and mainly north east players. This midlands path that TW led us down was crazy and has failed in many ways including financially.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:22 am

grimsbyquaker wrote:If going down is going to finish us off then the club must move heaven and earth to keep us up. We know what that entails. Something doesn’t quite add up though at the moment. The club appear to be holding back
Yes, I agree. We are in a perfect storm, and Wright ( yes, his faults are many) seems to be getting little help just when he needs it. We had little firepower and with a bench full of kids Nuneaton knew that we nothing else to offer.

And Boost The Budget? Can this actually be considered next year? Some feel aggrieved by it, they feel they’ve been sold a pup.

A netcafe has been mentioned. This needs to next week, the club needs to get moving on it.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by spen666 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:32 am

grimsbyquaker wrote:As has been said, serious costings need to be done with regard to the impact of relegation as, face it, there are currently not three teams worse than us. We seemingly can’t sustain NLN football...our squad has an admin look about it with a 17 year old being our most experienced sub. If we go down surely BM is too expensive to afford with lower crowds and still lots of 500 club money tied up
Not sure there is another option. Even if a suitable venue was available free of charge, the club can't afford to leave BM because they would need to repeat the grant money spent on ground.

Only option would be to try to renegotiate rent, but RFC have club over a barrel as they would know issue resolved grant money

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by Vodka_Vic » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:38 am

grimsbyquaker wrote:As has been said, serious costings need to be done with regard to the impact of relegation as, face it, there are currently not three teams worse than us. We seemingly can’t sustain NLN football...our squad has an admin look about it with a 17 year old being our most experienced sub. If we go down surely BM is too expensive to afford with lower crowds and still lots of 500 club money tied up
Currently up with gut rot so will add my assessment to the situation.
It is the move back to Darlington which has crushed our momentum, when many expected it to be the opposite. The funding of it on paper seemed sensible. The 500 (or nearer 400) club would fund the move to a stadium which could fund NLN football or higher. (One problem is that no long term infrastructure assessment was done and this short-termism led to the seats fiasco and over-budgeting but that's really a separate point here). There would be no major loss short-term as our crowds would obviously increase by at least 400 with the move back to town. However, this is where things start to go wrong. It has not materialised and so the 500 club money has become a yearly shortfall. Neither should the increase in rent for BM have caused a major gap, as we were told that we'd increase our off-field revenue to more than cover this. Again, little was done here. Only now has this been addressed with Craig Morley.
We know now the figures needed to survive or get promotion from the NLN. Really with all the money flying around then 200-250k is needed for survival (if you think I'm too high, then the reality is that moneybags Basford and possibly South Shields will be coming up next year meaning another 2 clubs minimum will have a bigger budget than us should we survive). Also, if we were relegated, how much budget to have a tilt at coming back up? 250k? So with our shortfall from non-increased crowds back at BM we can't reinvest all our gate money back into the playing budget. A drop off of 400 people on gates of 1,200 or so is a third. It may be that next year our budget is around 150k plus any BTB. This may or may not be in the Evostik. However, after 1/2 more seasons we'll be able to invest this money back into the playing squad. I don't think that is will be in the NLN sadly, because if we miraculously survive then the same problems will be waiting for us next season only with an even more reduced budget, and we'd have to have found a very good manager who can work on a shoestring.
Let's say we were relegated. We don't know how that would affect us financially. The club need to cost this and communicate it ASAP I feel. But if we were, after 2 seasons we could invest all our gates back into the playing squad and have a tilt at getting back into the NLN. We would also have funded a move back to Darlo. If after 10 years of existence under the current model (which it roughly will be in a couple of seasons) someone had offered playing back in town 2 leagues higher that the Northern League, should the worst come to the worst and we are relegated, then I guess you would have taken that, if you look at it over time rather than in isolation. What we don't know is how much relegation would affect things like off field revenue, recruitment to the academy, attracting players etc., rent at BM which would have to be reduced really. Ultimately, though, it's the move back to Darlo which we HAD to do which has affected us, as well as a lack of long-term planning a few years ago. Get the infrastructure right, and it is getting there, then we can have a long-term future at at least this level, but at the very least it'll be tough for a couple more years or we might have to consolidate in the NPL for the time being.

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by grimsbyquaker » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:48 am

Vodka_Vic wrote:
grimsbyquaker wrote:As has been said, serious costings need to be done with regard to the impact of relegation as, face it, there are currently not three teams worse than us. We seemingly can’t sustain NLN football...our squad has an admin look about it with a 17 year old being our most experienced sub. If we go down surely BM is too expensive to afford with lower crowds and still lots of 500 club money tied up
Currently up with gut rot so will add my assessment to the situation.
It is the move back to Darlington which has crushed our momentum, when many expected it to be the opposite. The funding of it on paper seemed sensible. The 500 (or nearer 400) club would fund the move to a stadium which could fund NLN football or higher. (One problem is that no long term infrastructure assessment was done and this short-termism led to the seats fiasco and over-budgeting but that's really a separate point here). There would be no major loss short-term as our crowds would obviously increase by at least 400 with the move back to town. However, this is where things start to go wrong. It has not materialised and so the 500 club money has become a yearly shortfall. Neither should the increase in rent for BM have caused a major gap, as we were told that we'd increase our off-field revenue to more than cover this. Again, little was done here. Only now has this been addressed with Craig Morley.
We know now the figures needed to survive or get promotion from the NLN. Really with all the money flying around then 200-250k is needed for survival (if you think I'm too high, then the reality is that moneybags Basford and possibly South Shields will be coming up next year meaning another 2 clubs minimum will have a bigger budget than us should we survive). Also, if we were relegated, how much budget to have a tilt at coming back up? 250k? So with our shortfall from non-increased crowds back at BM we can't reinvest all our gate money back into the playing budget. A drop off of 400 people on gates of 1,200 or so is a third. It may be that next year our budget is around 150k plus any BTB. This may or may not be in the Evostik. However, after 1/2 more seasons we'll be able to invest this money back into the playing squad. I don't think that is will be in the NLN sadly, because if we miraculously survive then the same problems will be waiting for us next season only with an even more reduced budget, and we'd have to have found a very good manager who can work on a shoestring.
Let's say we were relegated. We don't know how that would affect us financially. The club need to cost this and communicate it ASAP I feel. But if we were, after 2 seasons we could invest all our gates back into the playing squad and have a tilt at getting back into the NLN. We would also have funded a move back to Darlo. If after 10 years of existence under the current model (which it roughly will be in a couple of seasons) someone had offered playing back in town 2 leagues higher that the Northern League, should the worst come to the worst and we are relegated, then I guess you would have taken that, if you look at it over time rather than in isolation. What we don't know is how much relegation would affect things like off field revenue, recruitment to the academy, attracting players etc., rent at BM which would have to be reduced really. Ultimately, though, it's the move back to Darlo which we HAD to do which has affected us, as well as a lack of long-term planning a few years ago. Get the infrastructure right, and it is getting there, then we can have a long-term future at at least this level, but at the very least it'll be tough for a couple more years or we might have to consolidate in the NPL for the time being.
A sobering post Vic (well done for being so articulate with your gut rot) but hard to disagree with any of your analysis

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by banktopp » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:15 am

JE93 wrote:
quakersfan wrote:Have to agree, fans were good today and the first half we played well.
Surely our luck will change!
Problem is it isn't luck. It's game plan, it's drilling our players to play formations, organisation in transitions. Non of which Tommy has given me any indication he is capable of.
This is what gives me hope.
It is glaringly obvious to everyone apart from TW what the problems are.
Couple that with players travelling from the midlands to play and occasionally train, inevitable that cliques develop.
We have a nucleus of decent players, more than capable of avoiding relegation with the addition of some loan players. All a new manager has to do is get the team to play and train as one, instill some team spirit. When you are in the s*** it is often team spirit, playing and fighting for each other and playing to a system where everyone understands their job that can turn results round.

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:26 am

That's exactly what Steve Watson did at Gateshead. With limited resources he made judicious use of the local loans market, got them organised and motivated and they have become a decent solid side. We have no leadership nor organisation and have descended into a chaotic mess under TW.

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:22 pm

Gateshead are loaded. They had their arse saved by a multi-millionaire yet again.
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by darlo reborn » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:31 pm

If we go down and start next season well and are up near the top of the league I think gates will actually increase on this season as more people will be inclined to go see a winning team as proved at Bishop when we played there.

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by al_quaker » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:40 pm

Vodka_Vic wrote:we might have to consolidate in the NPL for the time being.
:cry:

Heartbreaking - and probably correct. This is the effect of our decade(ish) of terrible ownership. We've gone from a (admittedly pretty rubbish) football league side, to a club which likely can only exist as a 7th division part time side in a regional league. Congratulations Messrs Reynolds, Houghton and Singh.

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:46 pm

al_quaker wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:we might have to consolidate in the NPL for the time being.
:cry:

Heartbreaking - and probably correct. This is the effect of our decade of terrible ownership. We've gone from a (pretty rubbish) football league side, to a club which likely can only exist as a 7th division part time side in a regional league. Congratulations Messrs Reynolds, Houghton and Singh.
I don't buy this. We can exist in this league.

I would say to the present board of directors re Tommy Wright - either back him or sack him! Don't just sit back with your fingers crossed.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by shawry » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:19 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
al_quaker wrote:
Vodka_Vic wrote:we might have to consolidate in the NPL for the time being.
:cry:

Heartbreaking - and probably correct. This is the effect of our decade of terrible ownership. We've gone from a (pretty rubbish) football league side, to a club which likely can only exist as a 7th division part time side in a regional league. Congratulations Messrs Reynolds, Houghton and Singh.
I don't buy this. We can exist in this league.

I would say to the present board of directors re Tommy Wright - either back him or sack him! Don't just sit back with your fingers crossed.
Surely they are backing him by not sacking him, ultimately we decided (as owners) that we would run our club sustainably, this means we don't overspend in the hope we gain promotion (or save ourselves from relegation)

This is where we are, we can't change things because it's going a bit pear shaped at the moment.

Ultimately the budget has been reduced as commercial income has been lower than expected, by some margin it seems, hopefully Craig will sort that out and next season we are on a much steadier footing.

I would say, from a personal point of view I never understood why we didn't keep extending the 500 club membership every year until we are in a position where we are debt free and able to take promotion, it would have meant we only suffer the shortfall when we are in a much better position to be able to take that sort of hit to the budget/income.

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:32 pm

shawry wrote:Surely they are backing him by not sacking him
To some degree yes, however the sale of Styche and Syers didn't just come out of the blue, they obviously must have been in the pipeline for weeks, so why were no other players brought in? Loans or whatever.

I understand that T.W. has messed up but yesterday we had no substitutes available to us, is this something the board are happy about?
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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shawry
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by shawry » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:41 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
shawry wrote:Surely they are backing him by not sacking him
To some degree yes, however the sale of Styche and Syers didn't just come out of the blue, they obviously must have been in the pipeline for weeks, so why were no other players brought in? Loans or whatever.

I understand that T.W. has messed up but yesterday we had no substitutes available to us, is this something the board are happy about?
Possibly not, but it's also likely that unfortunately the deals couldn't be done for one reason or another on the other 2/3.

That may have been down to finances/Tommy or he players not wanting to come at the last minute.

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:13 pm

Wasn't there a post on here a while back saying the the ploy of filling the bench with academy players was deliberate? i.e. as a way of attracting youngsters by promising them a chance to be in the first team squad.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:52 pm

There was, but personally I never set much importance on it.

When we've had players to put on the bench they've been on it but at the moment we can hardly field a team. We'll have to send for super Stevie Johnson if things get any worse.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by shildonlad » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:10 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:Gateshead are loaded. They had their arse saved by a multi-millionaire yet again.
What the f00k! shows how much you know. Gateshead ain't loaded apart from odd far flung trip like Havant and Waterlooville they travel to games on day of game. Squad is pro but on a shoestring, Made up with alot of youngsters and loan players. Think only Boden, Kerr, barrow and Williamson are over 25. I presume darlington must be loaded as players will be one. Good wage comeing from the Midlands

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:07 pm

Watching the highlights, we didn't seem to play badly and could have been well up by half time if we could finish. I thought maybe our full backs were caught out again for the goals but there seemed to be plenty of effort? Happy to be corrected by those who lived it!

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by LoidLucan » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:56 pm

Yes we sometimes passed the ball about well which is something we've done all season in parts. It's because we have some individual players who are decent footballers. We were also atrocious in defence at critical times and they had two or three really good chances after half-time when they could have been two or three goals up. You also have to bear in mind that when we had them on the back foot in the first half, they looked absolutely atrocious. They sat back, were slow as feck in defence and just backed off all the time. They were a weak, weak side and we won't normally be facing teams like that as we have seen in the first half of this dreadful season.

Yes it was quite a refreshing change to see us not looking completely out of our depth in the way we have done in games like Altrincham, Telford (cup) and Chester but Nuneaton were one of the poorest sides we have hosted and they won. They will be relegated. I didn't walk away feeling uplifted and I don't think many others did either. This is the place TW has led us to.

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by Ghost_Of_1883 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:13 pm

shildonlad wrote:
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:Gateshead are loaded. They had their arse saved by a multi-millionaire yet again.
What the f00k! shows how much you know.
So are you denying that you were taken over by another millionaire then?

Yes I'm aware that your budget was going to be slashed when your old owners wanted out, but that was if they were staying on, as they couldn't continue to put as much in...

But they didn't stay, because another rich backer came in. Are you telling me he hasn't pumped money in since?

Are you doing an impression of a Spennymoor fan - pretending that you're all sustainable and barely spend any money? Fuck off man.
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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:22 pm

Alan White speaks on the official site "how we weren't winning the game was beyond me"

Alan, with respect, I reckon we need a few players on the pitch who are capable of scoring a goal - these players are usually called strikers, oh and a few players on the bench over the age of 15 would help too.
Mr Singh said this " I'm not expecting to get back any of the money I've already put in, I'm prepared to write it off for the future of the club. I'm not hanging in to make any kind of financial gain in the short or long term - if someone was prepared to come in and take the club off my hands, I'd be more than willing to discuss it"

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Re: Darlington V Nuneaton

Post by shildonlad » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:12 pm

Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:
shildonlad wrote:
Ghost_Of_1883 wrote:Gateshead are loaded. They had their arse saved by a multi-millionaire yet again.
What the f00k! shows how much you know.
So are you denying that you were taken over by another millionaire then?

Yes I'm aware that your budget was going to be slashed when your old owners wanted out, but that was if they were staying on, as they couldn't continue to put as much in...

But they didn't stay, because another rich backer came in. Are you telling me he hasn't pumped money in since?

Are you doing an impression of a Spennymoor fan - pretending that you're all sustainable and barely spend any money? Fuck off man.
Taken over and yeah a slight increase in squad as likes of mike williamson was brought in but nowhere near backing as in the past and the club will not be fully sustainable any time soon. Still one of the lower budgets in the league no ones saying otherwise. How sustainable are darlo shipping a manager up from miles away and players dont tell me you dont pay good wages


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