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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:59 pm 
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https://darlingtonfc.co.uk/news/reece-c ... -gibraltar


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Just what we need right now - our best player going away.

Would miss the AFC Telford game if he's retained in the squad.

Best hope is that he misses out if the squad gets cut down.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Well good luck to him, it's not often you get called up for an international. I only hope that if he makes the squad, he actually plays and doesn't just warm up the bench.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Of course Styche will play for them.

Gibraltar is about the size of a pin head so I can't see them having 11 players better than him.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Hopefully Reece will get his chance to play for Gibraltar, but also sets up an opportunity for Tommy to give the captain's armband to someone else. IMO it is very difficult to be an effective captain from the CF position. TW has still to find the key to unlock the potential of this squad so give the bloke some time with the proviso this is finite. Need for some players to step up their efforts & for everyone to cut out the unforced errors. Bring back the spirit shown when we played Brackley & Spenny then it should click back into place. Keep the faith :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:32 pm 
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I hope he gets to play for Gibraltar. Is there anyone on this site who could honestly say if they had a call up to play international football for anyone they wouldn't take it? Hope he gets into the full squad and gets on the pitch. What a great experience for him.

This is why we have squads in football the game isn't for a couple of weeks. There is time for players to come back. May also mean we have to play 4-2-3-1 with Thomo and Henshall whipping balls into the box for Ainge with Syers in behind which wouldn't be any weaker.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:29 am 
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JE93 wrote:
I hope he gets to play for Gibraltar. Is there anyone on this site who could honestly say if they had a call up to play international football for anyone they wouldn't take it? Hope he gets into the full squad and gets on the pitch. What a great experience for him.


Of course not. But I don't want him to play because if he picks up an injury, we're screwed. He's our best player. Anyone else and I wouldn't mind. But post-Ashton, I'd rather Styche was encased in cotton wool, than playing in a poxy international Nations League.

JE93 wrote:
This is why we have squads in football the game isn't for a couple of weeks. There is time for players to come back. May also mean we have to play 4-2-3-1 with Thomo and Henshall whipping balls into the box for Ainge with Syers in behind which wouldn't be any weaker.


If Styche isn't in our team, we're weaker. You're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:12 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Just what we need right now - our best player going away.

Would miss the AFC Telford game if he's retained in the squad.

Best hope is that he misses out if the squad gets cut down.


You spelt: "Congratulations on your call up, Reece! Well done..." wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:23 am 
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I'd rather our best player and talisman was playing for us on September 8th, rather than Gibraltar. We're much weaker without him.

I don't begrudge him the call-up at all. But his absence is not good for us, particularly if he gets injured.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:35 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
JE93 wrote:
I hope he gets to play for Gibraltar. Is there anyone on this site who could honestly say if they had a call up to play international football for anyone they wouldn't take it? Hope he gets into the full squad and gets on the pitch. What a great experience for him.


Of course not. But I don't want him to play because if he picks up an injury, we're screwed. He's our best player. Anyone else and I wouldn't mind. But post-Ashton, I'd rather Styche was encased in cotton wool, than playing in a poxy international Nations League.

JE93 wrote:
This is why we have squads in football the game isn't for a couple of weeks. There is time for players to come back. May also mean we have to play 4-2-3-1 with Thomo and Henshall whipping balls into the box for Ainge with Syers in behind which wouldn't be any weaker.


If Styche isn't in our team, we're weaker. You're deluding yourself if you think otherwise.


You do realise we play in the NLN right?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:41 am 
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Quaker85 wrote:

You do realise we play in the NLN right?


You do realise we play at Blackwell Meadows right?

Any more random statements you want to come out with?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:54 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:

You do realise we play in the NLN right?


You do realise we play at Blackwell Meadows right?

Any more random statements you want to come out with?


You know what I meant!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:02 am 
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Quaker85 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:

You do realise we play in the NLN right?


You do realise we play at Blackwell Meadows right?

Any more random statements you want to come out with?


You know what I meant!


Nope, I don't understand the relevance of you stating which division we play in.

Anyway, all I've said is that losing our best player for a game is not good timing for us, given the troubles we appear to be having on the pitch.

I don't begrudge Styche the international call-up in any way. Hopefully he'll return without suffering any injury, but I'd much prefer he was playing for us that day instead of Gibraltar.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:08 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:

You do realise we play in the NLN right?


You do realise we play at Blackwell Meadows right?

Any more random statements you want to come out with?


You know what I meant!


Nope, I don't understand the relevance of you stating which division we play in.

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OK, I'll spell it out...

Our CF and best player has been called up for international football to play in a qualifier that gives 'his country' a real shot at playing in a major finals tournament for the first time.

Of course he's needed here (more than ever) and the timing isn't great but to seemingly want to deny him the opportunity is churlish at best.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:17 am 
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Quaker85 wrote:

OK, I'll spell it out...

Our CF and best player has been called up for international football to play in a qualifier that gives 'his country' a real shot at playing in a major finals tournament for the first time.

Of course he's needed here (more than ever) and the timing isn't great but to seemingly want to deny him the opportunity is churlish at best.


Don't twist what I said. I've said twice that I don't begrudge him the call-up.

But him not playing for Gibraltar would be beneficial to us, something you yourself admit. I don't care about Gibraltar, I do give a stuff about Darlington. Therefore I would rather he didn't play, but if he does, well there you go. Let's just hope some Macedonian clogger doesn't break his ankle.

And I still don't understand why you mentioned which division we play in.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:26 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:

OK, I'll spell it out...

Our CF and best player has been called up for international football to play in a qualifier that gives 'his country' a real shot at playing in a major finals tournament for the first time.

Of course he's needed here (more than ever) and the timing isn't great but to seemingly want to deny him the opportunity is churlish at best.


Don't twist what I said. I've said twice that I don't begrudge him the call-up.

But him not playing for Gibraltar would be beneficial to us, something you yourself admit. I don't care about Gibraltar, I do give a stuff about Darlington. Therefore I would rather he didn't play, but if he does, well there you go. Let's just hope some Macedonian clogger doesn't break his ankle.

And I still don't understand why you mentioned which division we play in.


I think it's far more likely that he's going to be injured by a NLN clogger that playing on the international stage. My reference to the league we play in was merely emphasising what a great opportunity this is for a player at this level. You don't see many called up, lets be honest.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:35 am 
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Quaker85 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:

OK, I'll spell it out...

Our CF and best player has been called up for international football to play in a qualifier that gives 'his country' a real shot at playing in a major finals tournament for the first time.

Of course he's needed here (more than ever) and the timing isn't great but to seemingly want to deny him the opportunity is churlish at best.


Don't twist what I said. I've said twice that I don't begrudge him the call-up.

But him not playing for Gibraltar would be beneficial to us, something you yourself admit. I don't care about Gibraltar, I do give a stuff about Darlington. Therefore I would rather he didn't play, but if he does, well there you go. Let's just hope some Macedonian clogger doesn't break his ankle.

And I still don't understand why you mentioned which division we play in.


I think it's far more likely that he's going to be injured by a NLN clogger that playing on the international stage.


He will (hopefully) play near enough 50 games this season for us. So obviously he's more likely to get injured playing for us.

But the point, which you seem to have missed, it that him getting injured not playing for us would be particularly galling and frustrating, at a time when we badly need him. Particularly if it's for a minnow nation in irrelevant Nations League games.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:41 am 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:

OK, I'll spell it out...

Our CF and best player has been called up for international football to play in a qualifier that gives 'his country' a real shot at playing in a major finals tournament for the first time.

Of course he's needed here (more than ever) and the timing isn't great but to seemingly want to deny him the opportunity is churlish at best.


Don't twist what I said. I've said twice that I don't begrudge him the call-up.

But him not playing for Gibraltar would be beneficial to us, something you yourself admit. I don't care about Gibraltar, I do give a stuff about Darlington. Therefore I would rather he didn't play, but if he does, well there you go. Let's just hope some Macedonian clogger doesn't break his ankle.

And I still don't understand why you mentioned which division we play in.


I think it's far more likely that he's going to be injured by a NLN clogger that playing on the international stage.


He will (hopefully) play near enough 50 games this season for us. So obviously he's more likely to get injured playing for us.

But the point, which you seem to have missed, it that him getting injured not playing for us would be particularly galling and frustrating, at a time when we badly need him. Particularly if it's for a minnow nation in irrelevant Nations League games.


You're deliberately manipulating statistics to suit your argument. Of course he's more likely to get injured in 50 games but comparing like with like over two games, I don't think he is.

I share your frustrations but the Nations Leagues isn't irrelevant at all. It's a UEFA initiative designed to reduced the number of meaningless friendlies and give the minnows a realistic shot at appearing at a major finals. It part of their overall responsibility to develop the game and raise standards.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:07 am 
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Quaker85 wrote:

You're deliberately manipulating statistics to suit your argument. Of course he's more likely to get injured in 50 games but comparing like with like over two games, I don't think he is.


Where have I manipulated anything? All I've said is that if Styche were to miss games for us because of an injury picked up while with Gibraltar, that would be more incredibly frustrating, more so than if he were injured playing for us.

Quaker85 wrote:
I share your frustrations but the Nations Leagues isn't irrelevant at all. It's a UEFA initiative designed to reduced the number of meaningless friendlies and give the minnows a realistic shot at appearing at a major finals. It part of their overall responsibility to develop the game and raise standards.


Personally, I don't think minnows should be allowed a fastrack route into a major finals. It devalues the competition, and when a Luxembourg or Gibraltar gets hammered at the finals, it makes a mockery of the entire thing. If you're good enough, a nation will qualify through the usual routes.

It's a tournament finals, not a jolly kids day out. You should get there because you're one of the best nations on the continent, not because we give a leg up to minnow nations.

And if we're talking developing standards, clamping down on the millions illegally and immorrally diverted through tax havens and into the pockets of agents, corrupt officials and players, and ensuring it's invested in developing nations would be a start. Playing a few games against Liechtenstein and Faroe Islands every year won't improve Gibraltar.

There are FIFA officials who have in the past received more money than a minnow nation has for football development, and let's not kid ourselves, it still goes on. FIFA and UEFA could not give a stuff about developing standards. Only about increasing their own power and financial reward.

But this is a separate argument.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Good luck to him. I hope he starts and smashes some goals in for them.

Also, i don't see why people would be upset about the nations league? I'm actually excited about it. Competitive games against teams roughly at your level? Yes please. Takes a massive dump all over pointless friendlies.

For us, a chance to play Syers just off Ainge and see if they can link up.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Darlogramps wrote:
Quaker85 wrote:

You're deliberately manipulating statistics to suit your argument. Of course he's more likely to get injured in 50 games but comparing like with like over two games, I don't think he is.


Where have I manipulated anything? All I've said is that if Styche were to miss games for us because of an injury picked up while with Gibraltar, that would be more incredibly frustrating, more so than if he were injured playing for us.

Quaker85 wrote:
I share your frustrations but the Nations Leagues isn't irrelevant at all. It's a UEFA initiative designed to reduced the number of meaningless friendlies and give the minnows a realistic shot at appearing at a major finals. It part of their overall responsibility to develop the game and raise standards.


Personally, I don't think minnows should be allowed a fastrack route into a major finals. It devalues the competition, and when a Luxembourg or Gibraltar gets hammered at the finals, it makes a mockery of the entire thing. If you're good enough, a nation will qualify through the usual routes.

It's a tournament finals, not a jolly kids day out. You should get there because you're one of the best nations on the continent, not because we give a leg up to minnow nations.

And if we're talking developing standards, clamping down on the millions illegally and immorrally diverted through tax havens and into the pockets of agents, corrupt officials and players, and ensuring it's invested in developing nations would be a start. Playing a few games against Liechtenstein and Faroe Islands every year won't improve Gibraltar.

There are FIFA officials who have in the past received more money than a minnow nation has for football development, and let's not kid ourselves, it still goes on. FIFA and UEFA could not give a stuff about developing standards. Only about increasing their own power and financial reward.

But this is a separate argument.


Yes, banish those pesky minnows like Iceland for example & Croatia, another little fish, very similar to piranhas always biting the arses of countries who like to think they have a divine right to win championships.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:17 pm 
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jjljks wrote:

Yes, banish those pesky minnows like Iceland for example & Croatia, another little fish, very similar to piranhas always biting the arses of countries who like to think they have a divine right to win championships.


You've missed the point entirely.

Croatia and Iceland qualified for tournaments on merit. They either topped their group or came through the play-offs. They deserved to be there.

The Nations League means someone like Malta, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Gibraltar, Faroe Islands etc will qualify for a major tournament because they've beaten other minnow sides. Not because they've beaten better sides and got there on merit.

Only the sides who deserve to be there, by qualifying on merit, should be at the major tournaments. It's why sides like Netherlands, Italy etc have missed out in the past - they didn't deserve to be there.

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Last edited by Darlogramps on Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:24 pm 
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H1987 wrote:
Also, i don't see why people would be upset about the nations league? I'm actually excited about it. Competitive games against teams roughly at your level? Yes please. Takes a massive dump all over pointless friendlies.


No one is "upset" about the Nations League. If it was it's own standalone Davis Cup-style tournament, I'd take no issue with it. It would be largely pointless and the standard would lack the competitiveness of a major tournament, but heigh ho. Friendlies are also pointless wastes of time.

The issue I have is why UEFA have attached qualifying positions to it for Euro 2020, for sides who are only going to beat sides of a similar level. For me, major championships should see the best sides in qualifying get there - not a Malta who've only beaten sides like Faroe Islands, Kosovo and Gibraltar.

It's been done for political purposes (to get the votes of the minnows at UEFA presidential election time), but will devalue the finals competition itself. Say Gibraltar qualify - they'll lose all three group games and play negative defensive football to minimise the damage (we saw this at Euro 2016).

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:35 pm 
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If anything, you could argue you're giving nations like Italy and Holland another go as well. Anyone who makes it will be on merit. What it should do, is ensure more competitive games and get rid of pointless friendlies into the bargain.

To my understanding, one team from the Group D sides will make it? And one from Group C? You have to say, Group A sides should all make it anyway, and most of B will likely also. So 1 side of 24 coming from Azerbaijan, Macedonia, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, Latvia, Faroe Islands, Luxembourg, Kazakhstan, Moldova, Liechtenstein, Malta, Andorra, Kosovo, San Marino or Gibraltar? I'm fine with it, tbh.

Personally, i'd quite happily just bin all seeding, but they won't do that precisely because big sides might miss out if they're drawn unluckily with each other. That would be the truly equal way of doing it? The old way just maintained the big sides qualifying... or ensured teams like Poland cheated the rankings by playing garbage in friendlies to enhance their co-efficient.


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Also, to further that point, you're saying a Malta would have to beat those sides... in reality, they would have to win their group, then a two legged semi final, and a final, against teams of a relatively level playing field.

England won't have to top their group, then win two or three knock out games against sides more or less their level. We'll probably wallop our qualifying group, playing smaller sides anyway, as we have done the last time out. I'm not sure how that is any more 'fair'. If fairness is what you want, like i said, bin the coefficients entirely.

I think this way is a nice compromise, and i'm all for the minnows like Malta and Scotland having a chance for once.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:36 pm 
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H1987 wrote:
Also, to further that point, you're saying a Malta would have to beat those sides... in reality, they would have to win their group, then a two legged semi final, and a final, against teams of a relatively level playing field.

England won't have to top their group, then win two or three knock out games against sides more or less their level. We'll probably wallop our qualifying group, playing smaller sides anyway, as we have done the last time out. I'm not sure how that is any more 'fair'. If fairness is what you want, like i said, bin the coefficients entirely.


Sorry, this is baloney. All sides have the same chance to qualify. England just have to do it against better sides if it's via the Nations League.

Malta, for example, have to beat poor sides to qualify. They will have to top a group of poor sides, then win a last four finals competition against average sides.

"Level playing field" in your case means a s*** team beating other s*** teams.

The fact that they're unlikely to qualify via the traditional qualifying route is a reflection of how poor a quality side they are. And what are major tournaments for if not deciding who the best side is. What's the point in trying to find out who the best side is if you're handing a free pass to one of the worst teams in Europe?



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Agree with Gramps. Does everything these days have to be dumbed down?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:54 pm 
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I’m going to try and simplify this for you.

20 teams qualify through the usual groups, which, thanks to co-efficient being used, gives the top sides far more chance to qualify.

A mere 4 qualify via the nations league. 1 from each group (A, B, C and D)

So you’re telling me that England, France or whoever deserve to qualify by waltzing through a qualification group where they will play sides significantly weaker than them, as opposed to Malta or Georgia, having to win 6 or so games against teams around their strength.

The nations league, for the big nations, are pretty irrelevant from a qualification point of view, as most of those sides, if not all, will qualify as one of the 20, from a group that is heavily stacked in their favour.

Any side that qualifies from that group D will deserve it far more than scraping in as a third placed side in the groups, like some sides seemed to. Frankly, I’ve no sympathy for any major nation not making it when it comprises of 24 teams.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:16 pm 
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H1987 wrote:

So you’re telling me that England, France or whoever deserve to qualify by waltzing through a qualification group where they will play sides significantly weaker than them, as opposed to Malta or Georgia, having to win 6 or so games against teams around their strength.


The fact they are beating sides of around their strength is irrelevant. Their strength is poor to begin with. That's why they are in the lowest tier. Poor sides do not deserve to qualify.

The reason England and France waltz through qualifying is because they are the best teams. And the whole point of Euro 2020 is to find the best side in Europe. That's nothing to do with it being stacked in their favour. They stand a better chance because they are the best sides with the best players. Why this point seems to be beyond your grasp, I don't know.

A side in the lowest tier, who has only beaten another bunch of rubbish teams, should not be in the finals tournament to find the best team in Europe. It defeats the entire point.

If these lower nation minnows beat higher-ranked sides in qualifying, they do not deserve to be in the finals. If they do, then fair play.

If a side qualifies for the major tournament finals having only beaten League D Nations, none of whom are in the best 40 in Europe, it makes a joke of the whole process.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:12 pm 
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Ah, so you don't like smaller teams having to play smaller teams to quality.... but it's ok for bigger teams to only play smaller teams to qualify, thanks to the co-efficient?

Sorry. Nah. They waltz through not only because they're better teams, but because they're playing teams that are significantly weaker than them.

The co-efficient is entirely designed to make sure big teams, and namely, big markets qualify. 20 of the 24 teams will essentially come from a process inherently rigged to make sure those sides get there, as luck of the draw would inevitably draw some big sides in one part of the draw, and some smaller sides in another part of it.

If you want to go purely on the basis of the strongest teams making it, then even it out and bin the coefficients entirely. We both know that's not going to happen. Co-efficients are an absolute stain on European football. They're ruined the club competitions, and they've ruined qualifying as well. This, in some way, makes it interesting. Personally, i'm quite looking forward to seeing who makes it. Frankly, i couldn't give a monkeys if they're not in the perceived top 24 sides in Europe. Just like I don't care if the sides at the World cup are not the top 32 best, because I think it's important that we play a global game.

If you want an example of exclusionary logic gone all wrong, take a look at the cricket world cup.


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