Raj Singh's side of the story

[super_les_mcjannet]

A couple of questions Hair clip. Firstly, are your sources 'People in the know' and secondly, as he couldn't get the council to change the covenant for non-sporting purposes, did this plan involve the MG academy, so that there would still be development allowed as this is for a sporting reason?

Like we suspected...

1. People in the know - Yes.
2. MG academy - Don't know.



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Did hear some talks on the Arena had already taken place and possibly other stuff but just rumours so will just wait to see if anything happens.

[lo36789]

So Raj's story doesn't tallly up with my recollection of events at all. The radio interview was where he absolutely said I will sign over the share tomorrow and it never came.

Sorry but if he was that bothered and just wants to do his bit he'd just put his money in and not expect the shareholding everything, everything I have seen is that he is simply bothered he won't get the controlling share and now he's twisting a turning to save face.

[Allan Quatermain]

A couple of questions Hair clip. Firstly, are your sources 'People in the know' and secondly, as he couldn't get the council to change the covenant for non-sporting purposes, did this plan involve the MG academy, so that there would still be development allowed as this is for a sporting reason?

Like we suspected...

1. People in the know - Yes.
2. MG academy - Don't know.



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Did hear some talks on the Arena had already taken place and possibly other stuff but just rumours so will just wait to see if anything happens.

Which rumoured talks were these? The one where Raj had lent DMPRFC a considerable sum of money using the Arena as collateral?

[H1987]

Don't know what to make of it to be honest, although why he didn't release it at the time he announced he wanted in is absolutely beyond me. Nor why not see it through until the webcafe. He *must* have expected some backlash, and frankly, does he not know how the internet works? Why not stay off social media until the webcafe at least?
He must have gone out and actively looked for comments. Comes across that it's all about him and his ego.

[Darlogramps]

You've been abusive towards me on here in the past, so you're being a tad hypocritical here. When you started with namecalling when I challenged you for blaming AFC Fylde for our fans' misbehaviour, did you take a good look at your conduct? .

Ermmm righto, anything I said to you, when you were being argumentative and provocative like you regularly are on here with people who disagree with you, pales into significance to some of the stuff aimed at Singh over the last few days.

Imagine arguing with people who disagree with you. Shocking behaviour. Anyone would think this a messageboard for discussion and exchanging opinions.

Trouble is you don't like being challenged, and resorted to abuse and namecalling (which I'm glad you've admitted). Which is hypocritical on your part as you're condemning abuse yourself.

And no, Singh didn't receive any horrid level of abuse. I know you didn't get your own way but don't become a Singh apologist by exaggerating any level of criticism as abuse.

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[super_les_mcjannet]

A couple of questions Hair clip. Firstly, are your sources 'People in the know' and secondly, as he couldn't get the council to change the covenant for non-sporting purposes, did this plan involve the MG academy, so that there would still be development allowed as this is for a sporting reason?

Like we suspected...

1. People in the know - Yes.
2. MG academy - Don't know.



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Did hear some talks on the Arena had already taken place and possibly other stuff but just rumours so will just wait to see if anything happens.

Which rumoured talks were these? The one where Raj had lent DMPRFC a considerable sum of money using the Arena as collateral?

Sounds a little similar, I guess we might find out in time.

[loan_star]

You've been abusive towards me on here in the past, so you're being a tad hypocritical here. When you started with namecalling when I challenged you for blaming AFC Fylde for our fans' misbehaviour, did you take a good look at your conduct? .

Ermmm righto, anything I said to you, when you were being argumentative and provocative like you regularly are on here with people who disagree with you, pales into significance to some of the stuff aimed at Singh over the last few days.

Imagine arguing with people who disagree with you. Shocking behaviour. Anyone would think this a messageboard for discussion and exchanging opinions.

Trouble is you don't like being challenged, and resorted to abuse and namecalling (which I'm glad you've admitted). Which is hypocritical on your part as you're condemning abuse yourself.

And no, Singh didn't receive any horrid level of abuse. I know you didn't get your own way but don't become a Singh apologist by exaggerating any level of criticism as abuse.

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Suggest you reread that thread and see who started being condescending first. And its typical of your posting behaviour to distort other peoples posts in order to get a reaction.

[Darlogramps]

Condescending means talking down to people.

Thanks for proving my point though. You're just as thin-skinned as Singh. Hence your deflection of my criticism.

Why are you being so sympathetic towards him anyway? There's wanting to hear what he's got to say, but you seriously believe he's been badly done to.

[loan_star]

Thanks for proving my point. You're just as thin-skinned as Singh.

Why are you being so sympathetic towards him anyway? There's wanting to hear what he's got to say, but you seriously believe he's been badly done to.

There you go again, twisting things to suit what you want them to say. Cant help it can you!!
As for Singh, I (along with plenty others) wanted to hear what he had to say. To hear his sales pitch on why we should even consider accepting him back. However as I have said people couldn't help but sling abuse his way and so we will unlikely find out just what was on offer.
Now as it stands, I can see John Tempest calling time on his stint on the board and then we will be stuck since nobody else seems to want to step up to the plate to help out. Thats when we will end up going cap in hand to Singh because there will be no alternative and he will hold all the cards.
By the way if you talk down to people, don't expect them to be nice to you.

[en passant]

Like quite a few people have already said on the many threads raised in the aftermath of RS pulling out of the investment, I find it incredibly sad that the previous feeling of goodwill that surrounded our club has been tainted by this whole sorry business.

Like most ordinary supporters I have no special knowledge of what was going on behind the scenes that caused to want to listen to what RS had to offer, but I would guess that it all sprung from the massive downer that followed the news that we could not qualify for the play-offs, even if we came in the top five. Before this was announced there had been questions that had begun to be asked about how far the club could go using the present model, but most of us were quite happy to let MG and the team decide for us where we deserved to be by the results they achieved. It may have been a somewhat naive position but we placed a lot of trust in the ability of us the fans to provide, somehow, what was needed to gain future success, and we seemed to be happy to continue with the community club model, and we were very grateful for the work of all the volunteers and MG and the players.

Then we got hit by the news that due to a misinterpretation or ignorance of a crucial part of the ground grading rules that all the hope and the collective hard work of a season was going to hit the buffers. And suddenly we were no longer a happy band of brothers. Of course we all suffered from the collective depression of realising that a tilt at promotion, and some much needed extra revenue in the play-offs wouldn't happen. Everyone had their own way of coping with this. Some took it on the chin and said that we should learn from the error and be pragmatic. We should work towards making the necessary changes and make sure we were ready next year. Others wanted heads to roll, but whilst an understandable reaction when dealing with other situations in life, this took little account of the potential of ruining our "all for one, and one for all" previously held ethos. And it would now appear that still others decided that more drastic action was required and to avoid falling short of having a ground ready for promotion next year that we needed to consider an immediate injection of money from a willing investor.

So we were at a very vulnerable crossroads, and we had a board in turmoil and some internal strife that seemed to provide that kind of environment for a superhero to wade in and save us from the situation and ourselves. I think MG could potentially see his budget going south next year and the distinct possibility that even with a massive fund raising push that the ground would not be ready by next year either, which would have him asking what his motivation would be for having a competitive team if there was no realistic chance of promotion. So under the circumstances it may have been easy to make a bee-line for a local money man who would wave his magic wand and get us quickly through the ground grading and team budget problems, giving the team the starting point for next season that we thought we had at the start of the season just gone.

It would then seem that RS could see the state we were in, and that we were realising the enormity of the task ahead whilst beating ourselves up about the mistakes of the current season. According to this statement he talks as if he had only our best interests at heart when he made his offer of investment. Whilst we may never know what he was truly after I think he must have found something in the football club that he, once again, thought he could exploit, and even though he could guess that his name would have a negative response to his involvement I he may have calculated that he would catch us at such a disappointed and divided time that he thought that by immediately offering to stick a plaster over our wounds that we would welcome him as the saviour. And we did think about it. But it became clear that whilst still somewhat divided there was enough resurgent feeling for the idea that we should remain a fan based club that seems to have finally seen his bid off. Whilst there may be some understandable regret that we didn't take the investment and make the task of preparing for the next push for promotion far less painful, It appears that the idea of remaining a fan run club is far more precious to us than some get rich quick scheme. So if we are agreed on that then lets get together, and that means no more sniping and bitterness, and get on with the business of getting as much out of this model as is possible, and maybe, when the time and the investor is right we may be in a much better situation to rationally review their intentions and get the best deal for the club and ourselves. But in must start with agreeing to forget some of this recent disruption and get the structure of the club on a better footing with everyone working for the common good.

[Vodka_Vic]

There are two clear ways of looking at this episode. Missed opportunity or lucky escape. Clearly MG sees it as a missed opportunity. I personally see it as a lucky escape, especially the more that comes out. There's no way I would have wanted DFC to be piggy in the middle of land development again, regardless of whether we playing in a higher division or not.

[Darlogramps]

Thanks for proving my point. You're just as thin-skinned as Singh.

Why are you being so sympathetic towards him anyway? There's wanting to hear what he's got to say, but you seriously believe he's been badly done to.

There you go again, twisting things to suit what you want them to say. Cant help it can you!!

Haha, you're so thin-skinned. I've just pointed out your obvious insecurities. You're happily obliging by biting and deflecting all the time. I could twist things but I genuinely don't need to with you.

As for Singh, I (along with plenty others) wanted to hear what he had to say. To hear his sales pitch on why we should even consider accepting him back. However as I have said people couldn't help but sling abuse his way and so we will unlikely find out just what was on offer.
Now as it stands, I can see John Tempest calling time on his stint on the board and then we will be stuck since nobody else seems to want to step up to the plate to help out. Thats when we will end up going cap in hand to Singh because there will be no alternative and he will hold all the cards.

So you'd consider embarrassing the club by doing a deal with a proven failure of a football club owner. RBS Bank wouldn't re-appoint Fred Goodwin? So why would we bring back a man who ruined us?

Singh didn't get abuse anywhere near as bad as you're making out. People criticised his previous actions, arrogance and lack of self-awareness. That's not abuse.

It's a shame you're choosing to be so negative because you didn't get your own way. From your tweets and posts, it's clear you wanted investment.

I actually think the fanbase will come together after this. Singh was causing the division, but he's out of the way.

Singh holds zero cards by the way. It's why he's walked away. Even if it did go tits up, after this week, there's no way we could ask Singh for assistance.

[Undercovered]

Sadly the fan base won't come together. Heads have now been turned and there will be a divide between those who want to run a sustainable club and those that want to take a chance with the clubs future by setting unsustainable budgets.

Cue a huge power struggle as has happened at other fan owned clubs and a split in the fan base with no one coming out well.

It was always going to happen one day but I thought it may be a few years yet.

[loan_star]

So you'd consider embarrassing the club by doing a deal with a proven failure of a football club owner. RBS Bank wouldn't re-appoint Fred Goodwin? So why would we bring back a man who ruined us?

Singh didn't get abuse anywhere near as bad as you're making out. People criticised his previous actions, arrogance and lack of self-awareness. That's not abuse.

It's a shame you're choosing to be so negative because you didn't get your own way. From your tweets and posts, it's clear you wanted investment.

Yes i want investment if its right for the club. Why do you think Tempest and Raper decided to let this go to the vote if they didn't think it was worth looking into more seriously? They both know a hell of a lot more than anyone else about the offer. They will have challenged Singh over his past actions in a more professional manner than anyone on here or social media and yet they still put it forward to the fans. Its just a shame the rest of us wont get to hear what was on offer and then been able to make an informed decision instead of holding grudges forever and a day.

[loan_star]

Haha, you're so thin-skinned. I've just pointed out your obvious insecurities. You're happily obliging by biting and deflecting all the time. I could twist things but I genuinely don't need to with you.

You really aren't worth bothering with are you.

[Darlogramps]

Haha, you're so thin-skinned. I've just pointed out your obvious insecurities. You're happily obliging by biting and deflecting all the time. I could twist things but I genuinely don't need to with you.

You really aren't worth bothering with are you.

I clearly am, given you've responded to every single one of my replies.

As for Singh, it's patronising to say fans are holding a grudge. It's more his blatant unsuitability, previous actions and refusal to accept responsibility, as well as a total mistrust of him. That's no grudge. It's sensible scepticism.

Given the public nature of the investment, following Gray's FF intervention, the board were obliged to put it to the owners (the fans). And given the club is fan-owned, would it have been right for Tempest and Raper to have denied fans a vote on an issue this serious arbitrarily? (Obviously talking hypothetically here)

[magic1]

This is what is annoying. Very few people know the full story but have decided that the rest of us aren't allowed to listen to what he had to say and offer. The board had decided it was good enough to put forward to the fans but because some people can't criticise without being abusive we will never know exactly what was on offer.

Its all very well being against the idea but some people need to take a good look at their conduct in my opinion.

Well said

[Makka Pakka]

Which rumoured talks were these? The one where Raj had lent DMPRFC a considerable sum of money using the Arena as collateral?

There was a charge placed on the Arena in November 2016, the lender was not Raj Singh though, and it appears to have been paid back.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... 83/charges

[tezza]

By the way, just so everyone is clear, Raj's interest is still about the Arena. He wanted to take us back there and develop the wider site. Darlington FC has and always will be just a vehicle for making money.


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Total rubbish. You know Jack

[super_les_mcjannet]

Which rumoured talks were these? The one where Raj had lent DMPRFC a considerable sum of money using the Arena as collateral?

There was a charge placed on the Arena in November 2016, the lender was not Raj Singh though, and it appears to have been paid back.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... 83/charges

DMPRFC had a lot of money when they moved, and have had 3 charges since Feb 2016. Sure it will all come out at some point.

[The Golden Hairclip]

By the way, just so everyone is clear, Raj's interest is still about the Arena. He wanted to take us back there and develop the wider site. Darlington FC has and always will be just a vehicle for making money.


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Total rubbish. You know Jack

Fishing Tezza? As a Darlo fan since 1989, I'd love to tell fellow fans everything I know but as a close friend of someone at the cutting edge of this debacle, I just can't. The purpose of my post wasn't to leave people hanging, or for attention (like many do), but simply to give people who've heard something similar a nudge in the right direction. Suffice to say, I would have voted no to Raj.


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[Comfortably_numb]

TEESSIDE businessman Raj Singh has today released a statement on his proposed investment in Darlington, which he withdrew last night.

In his statement he also seeks to clarify what happened five years ago, when the club went into administration when he was Quakers' chairman.

We reproduce his statement here in full:

“...I’ve found it incredibly upsetting that so-called fans have judged and abused me despite not having the slightest idea of the real truth behind my previous involvement with the club....“
.”

I say again....hard nosed businessmen don't give a flying one about what others perception is of them.

If he couldn't cope with the latest feedback then we're best off without him.

Besides, I don't think the offer was genuine anyway - someone somewhere is up to something. I think the RS thing is just one move in a greater game of chess.

[Vodka_Vic]

Robbo, there's only one person who decided that the rest of us weren't allowed to listen to what he had to say, and that's Raj himself, not the fans. The club had given him an opportunity for a public platform, and he rejected it, no-one else.
As for him saying that clearly the fans weren't on his side, again the club gave him an official chance to see if this were the case by arranging an SGM to vote either yes or no, and once again, he rejected it. Forget a few internet trolls, we gave him the chance to pitch his investment, and he rejected the chance, not the fans. He may have been rejected at the vote, but again this is just all speculation now. We'll never know because he rejected the chance we gave him.

[Comfortably_numb]

Robbo, there's only one person who decided that the rest of us weren't allowed to listen to what he had to say, and that's Raj himself, not the fans. The club had given him an opportunity for a public platform, and he rejected it, no-one else.
As for him saying that clearly the fans weren't on his side, again the club gave him an official chance to see if this were the case by arranging an SGM to vote either yes or no, and once again, he rejected it. Forget a few internet trolls, we gave him the chance to pitch his investment, and he rejected the chance, not the fans. He may have been rejected at the vote, but again this is just all speculation now. We'll never know because he rejected the chance we gave him.

Bang on. The excuse of online abuse is BS for me.

[loan_star]

Robbo, there's only one person who decided that the rest of us weren't allowed to listen to what he had to say, and that's Raj himself, not the fans. The club had given him an opportunity for a public platform, and he rejected it, no-one else.
As for him saying that clearly the fans weren't on his side, again the club gave him an official chance to see if this were the case by arranging an SGM to vote either yes or no, and once again, he rejected it. Forget a few internet trolls, we gave him the chance to pitch his investment, and he rejected the chance, not the fans. He may have been rejected at the vote, but again this is just all speculation now. We'll never know because he rejected the chance we gave him.

I know what you mean but he was given an easy excuse to back out. If he hadn't got the abuse then either he would have had to find another excuse to back out or we would have got more information on his plans.
Its done now anyway, we have to move on and get fundraising again.

[theoriginalfatcat]

I have no vendetta against Raj Singh. I can understand that he found himself in a very difficult position during the final days of his previous DFC Chairmanship. The club was losing money big time, and he was liable, other money making schemes had failed and he could see no way out.

So it was always the smaller details like the position re the football share, the way nobody seemed able to negotiate a deal with him, and the way he appeared to say one thing/do another that irked me, puzzled me.

I would have been interested to hear mr Singh’s version of these events years ago as there may well of been falsehoods and misunderstandings etc, but he chose to keep quiet. I know that the journalist Andrew Wilkinson contacted him back then so that he could ‘put his side of the story’ but
Raj decided (as was his prerogative) to decline.

If Raj had of decided to put his side of the story, then in my opinion it would of been of benefit and interest to everyone - and especially been of benefit to him, if he was serious about becoming involved again now.

But all we’ve had offered up to us recently was a rambling unimpressive statement in The Echo with the headline “Raj Singh gives his side of the story in a lengthy statement” and here are a just few of the points that have made me think…..

He (R.S) says

“I’ve found it incredibly upsetting that so-called fans have judged and abused me despite not having the slightest idea of the real truth behind my previous involvement with the club.”

To me - if the “so-called fans” had no idea of “the real truth” then whose fault was that? And why are the people who have upset him so much labelled as “so-called fans”?

R.S. says “I am sick and tired of hearing stories about how I refused to give up my football share, with far-fetched rumours suggesting that was the reason why Darlington plummeted four leagues in one fell swoop.”

“That same evening on BBC Tees, more of the club’s fans criticised me, insinuating that I was the one stopping things from moving forwards. Among these was the club’s then photographer and another who I presumed to be representing one of the groups that were trying to take control of the football club.
“This second individual specifically said words to the effect of ‘I don’t even think we need the football share from Mr Singh if we were prepared to start the next season a league below. It was clearly his belief that the club would just start again one league below where they then were. Clearly this was a poor call, as the FA later insisted they started again four leagues below where they had been.”


“At no point was I asked for the football share after that day, so the suggestion that I kept hold of the share because I wanted the club to die is utter rubbish.”

Personally I find it hard to understand any of this! And don’t know where to start!

I remember listening to this radio interview. I remember the photographer (we all know his name) quickly backing down to Singh’s challenge, and I’m sure I can remember remember him (Singh) saying that he would hand back the football share straight away, ASAP.

And it’s telling that R.S. refers to the share as “my football share”

So why did anybody need to ask for the share again? It was needed, it was requested, and there was a promise of its return.

There are a lot of odd things surrounding this seemingly dead in the water investment proposal, R.S’s recent statement and the way he has suddenly pulled out are just a few of them.

[Vodka_Vic]

It's not a credible statement. Frankly, if there had been another side to the story then I would have expected to hear something more substantial than this.
Perhaps he thinks that we'll all accept what he says at face value, because we are only 'fickle' football fans and maybe there's a bit of the old stereotype that football fans aren't the brightest, certainly from what I've picked up in the generalisations that have been made up about 'fans' in his statements.
The fact is though that football fans now are generally well-organised groups and are no longer pushovers or ill-informed, which clearly he saw when seeing how welded our current structure was to legal rules and obligations. This therefore makes his statement even more puzzling.

[darlo2001uk]

My view is:

1. Thank you Raj for 'clarifying' your thoughts - albeit five years too late.

2. Thank you for your valuable cash donation.

3. That should be accepted as a generous donation from someone wanting to see DFC thrive and absolutely nothing more than that - now or in the future.

[bga]

By the way, just so everyone is clear, Raj's interest is still about the Arena. He wanted to take us back there and develop the wider site. Darlington FC has and always will be just a vehicle for making money.


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Total rubbish. You know Jack

Fishing Tezza? As a Darlo fan since 1989, I'd love to tell fellow fans everything I know but as a close friend of someone at the cutting edge of this debacle, I just can't. The purpose of my post wasn't to leave people hanging, or for attention (like many do), but simply to give people who've heard something similar a nudge in the right direction. Suffice to say, I would have voted no to Raj.
So you clearly have contacts at the very heart of DMPRFC as well, otherwise you only "know" one side...................then again I doubt it!


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[OHDFC]

I have it in my mind that Singh decided which players to pay dependent on how he thought they'd performed. If I'm not wrong where's the explanation for that?

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