Its here the investment

[Spyman]

Maybe he's looking at forming a consortium of say 3 others, each buy 15% of the shares then the consortium has 60% and a controlling interest, change the constitution then buy the shares off the other members to take a 60% control stake in the club.

I don't trust the man no matter if it means investing in the club and improving the playing staff.

As I said earlier, I really don't think this 40K forms any part of a long term investment plan at all. It just allows MG to put his squad together for next season while the takeover is worked out. I suspect there will be an offer to buy 51% of the club from a group of investors (including Singh). We need to stop treating this 40K as a way for Singh to work his way in, it isn't. It's not even a way to get his foot in the door. The investors will want 51% of the club and will be explicit in saying so. They'll set out their proposal and we'll need time to consider this, the 40K gives us time.

As I said at the start of this thread, it absolutely is a foot in the door.

If Gray gets his budget, we should be in a position to reach the playoffs again.

If we are in that position come January and the club is struggling to raise the funds to get the ground up to standard, what happens? Suddenly panic sets in. Fans don't want to see another season of missing out because of infrastructure. Singh and his cronies become the only way to avoid another season wasted, by chucking in the money for a new stand.

If he didn't put the £40k into the playing budget now, we may not find ourselves particularly bothered about ground grading come January.

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[Mr_Tibbs]

How long does it take for someone else to buy 15% and someone else to buy 15% and someone else and suddenly while no one person owns more than 15% one shareholding block does and can then drive the direction of the club.

They issue more share capital at decent prices or preferential shares in exchange for more investment and water down the stock holdings knowing we as fans cant match the investment or put up the money needed to buy a block of shares, they change the articles of association to allow for an automatic buy out at X% and then they take control. It isnt difficult.

Mr Tibbs has already covered this. Legally the community benefit company cannot diminish its interests. Basically holding anything above 75% is pointless as it gives you no additional control or anything you are entirely in control of the Articles of Association etc.

If someone else came in to take the share beneath this then actually a share issue could not be agreed to by the DFCSG as it would dimish its interests in the assets which are locked for community benefit.

Again - I don't think that, really, offers much protection. There are processes in place to wind up a CIC ( which i wont go into here) and once have enough of a voice within that structure you can seek to make changes to the legal entities owning the club. Hell you could buy out the "footballing asset" and leave the CIC as a pure community interest company centered on the sports hub.

No, we're a Community Benefit Society. The CIC merged with the Trust and the Supporters Club to form the DFCSG (the CBS). We can't take anything out without it being in accordance with the rules, which are in accordance with the Co-operative and Community Benefits Societies Act.

There's a link to our rules are here if anyone wants to read them...

http://dfcsg.co.uk/aboutus

I too would like to know what Raj's motive is. I can't think of a good one but the Net Cafe should provide a bit more clarity.

Two things on my mind:

1) On a previous thread Geordie Quaker made a few very good points, one of which was that we should seek the investor's assurance that the focus of his investment should be the club and not Martin Gray. I would've preferred to see MG's name replaced by the word "the Manager" in the statement but that's by the by.

2) I've received the notice of the SGM, the agenda for which includes this:

"Vote as to whether to support DFC Resolution and, if necessary vote to provide a
mandate for the proposed future action in relation to this resolution by the DFCSG
Board"

As this is a vote purely to provide the DFCSG with a mandate to use it's majority vote to pass the decision whether to allow Raj to acquire a 15% shareholding in the club then a further SGM would be needed for an extraordinary resolution to be passed if the DFCSG's shareholding were to be reduced in any way, in the future.

I don't think there is any attempt to hoodwink people in any way here, but people need to understand what they're voting for, and what they're not voting for.

I notice he says his £40k is conditional on the supporters putting in the other £40k.

Sorry, not had time to read the whole thread to see if someone else has mentioned this but I didn't read it as being conditional. It does say that it reduces the amount we need to raise by £40k and that we still have some work to do to raise the balance in order to set the manager's budget in good time, but it's not a condition that we do so before he puts his money in.

I do have some concern that he gets 15% of the club for putting £40k in, while the rest of us get nowt. We could put it in the Uncovered Fund and offer it as a lump sum in exchange for a share ourselves.

Still to much to read and digest right now, but I'm currently leaning strongly towards voting against this. I don't trust him.

[Magical Quakers]

Just received this by email:

NOTICE OF SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING

A special general meeting of Darlington FC Supporters Group will take place at 7.45pm on Friday 26th May 2017 at Central Hall of the Dolphin Centre, Horsemarket, Darlington DL1
5RP.

You will have probably seen that the DFC board are asking shareholders to approve a
resolution that will enable them to allot shares to the value of £40,000 to Raj Singh in exchange for a £40,000 contribution to next season’s playing budget. As the majority shareholder in DFC 1883 Ltd, the Darlington FC Supporters Group must decide whether to support this resolution or not. DFCSG members will be given the opportunity to vote on this at the SGM.

If the members vote in favour of this resolution, the DFCSG board will also seek approval from the members for the DFCSG to acquire additional DFC 1883 Ltd shares so that the DFCSG can maintain a controlling interest (>= 75% of the voting rights) in DFC 1883 Ltd after shares have been issued to Raj Singh. This is required to comply with the rules of the DFCSG. We propose to finance the purchase of these shares by converting some of the Community Share money loaned to DFC 1883 Ltd. by DFCSG into shares. We also propose to loan a proportion of the Boost the Budget contributions made by DFCSG members to DFC 1883 Ltd to replace the Community Share loan converted to shares (the remainder would be passed to DFC 1883 Ltd. as a donation). This is required to ensure that loan repayments from DFC1883 Ltd. are sufficient to cover Community Share repayments when they fall due. Again, DFCSG members will be given the opportunity to vote on this at the SGM.

The primary purpose of the above is to enable Raj Singh to provide some funds to complement the pledges being made to the ‘Boost the Budget’ initiative to enable Martin Gray to continue his team planning for next season. The limits set by the current DFC Articles of Association would provide sufficient scope for an investment equivalent to approximately half of the ‘Boost the Budget’ target of £80,000 and therefore this would reduce the amount that would need to be met by the fans to around £40,000.

Should the above be passed by the members, it would provide the opportunity for Raj Singh to continue to work with his advisors to develop a more detailed proposal setting out how he might want to increase his involvement with Darlington Football Club. However, a more detailed proposal would likely take a number of months to develop. Assuming we get to that point, it would then be up to the members of DFCSG to determine whether the proposal would meet their future aspirations in terms of the running/ownership of the Football Club. Our major concerns when considering any proposal would be safeguarding the future of the Football Club for fans as a whole and protecting the interests of those fan-investors who have got us to where we are today.

[Spyman]

The 40K is going into the playing budget and not the ground infrastructure because RS and whoever else is involved have no intention of staying at BM.
MG stated at the forum his and the investors desire to be playing in the FL as soon as possible. By planning to develop the open end into a terrace writes that off unless the idea is to knock down the tinshed and re-build it as a 3000 seater stand.

MG needs to have a budget to work with whilst this takeover bid is sorted out. If the takeover happens in October its too late so we need to money now. What good would putting 40K into the stands do for our immediate requirements?

Yeah but without the stands there is little point in spending more money on the playing side.

What does MG need now, this month? A budget or seats?

MG will have a budget one way or another.

The budget he needs if we don't have a ground fit for promotion is considerably lower than the budget he needs if we do have a ground fit for promotion.

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[Q8Quaker]

Hmm, let's say Raj wanted to takeover the club, move us to the Arena for whatever reasons - it wouldn't just be as simple as that anyway.

First of all we have a 20 year lease with the rugby club which we can't just walk away from for free.

Secondly we would have to pay substantial grants back which we have used to develop BM.

Thirdly we have the problem of fixture priority with Mowden.

And didn't someone also say a while back that the Arena needed a huge amount of money spending on it because there was a check on it's structure every 10 years or something - or did I just dream that?

The Arena could and should be a huge asset to the town if managed properly.

Pure speculation but maybe a deal can be done involving MP moving to BM and DFC (plus cash) the other way. This would overcome the contractual issues and the grants wouldn't be that significant in the grand scheme of things.

The structural steel at the Arena will require re-painting within the next few years which will cost a significant sum.

[grimsbyquaker]

Has the council's covenant requiring 75% of sale profits of the Arena land been revoked?
The council are good at 'losing' important documentation e.g Crown Street Library. I can't see past the Arena being involved somehow, either that or some grand plan for BM. You have to think about how any investment would yield decent returns for this consortium


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[Yarblockos]

As I said at the start of this thread, it absolutely is a foot in the door.

If Gray gets his budget, we should be in a position to reach the playoffs again.

If we are in that position come January and the club is struggling to raise the funds to get the ground up to standard, what happens? Suddenly panic sets in. Fans don't want to see another season of missing out because of infrastructure. Singh and his cronies become the only way to avoid another season wasted, by chucking in the money for a new stand.

If he didn't put the £40k into the playing budget now, we may not find ourselves particularly bothered about ground grading come January.

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Not going to happen. You'll have an investment proposal to vote on before January, I suspect before September. If its rejected then he'll be gone. He's not going to keep coming back offering 40K until eventually he's taken over and nobody realised! There is a takeover deal being prepared and Singh is part of it.

"Me and my mates want to buy your club"
"Fine, but it will take us a while to consider it and we need to plan our finances now"
"Ok, here's 40K"
"Ooh, I can't take that, I'm worried that you want to buy the club"

[al_quaker]

Roll on the netcafe (and hopefully the Echo will do some probing too)

I'd like to thank John Tempest and the SG for the work they've done on this. There's plenty of other things going on at the moment and they've also had to deal with this development too. Never easy with Darlo...

[Beano]

Raj and company clearly have a plan to make money otherwise they wouldn't get involved. From Raj's apocalyptic original spell, we know he is a benefactor and won't be prepared to lose a penny.

I believe Spyman and Quakers are calling it correctly - he would assume control and we won't be at Blackwell Meadows long.

Also, I fear Martin Gray has nailed his colours to the mast and may have backed himself into an unnecessary corner.

[Spyman]

As I said at the start of this thread, it absolutely is a foot in the door.

If Gray gets his budget, we should be in a position to reach the playoffs again.

If we are in that position come January and the club is struggling to raise the funds to get the ground up to standard, what happens? Suddenly panic sets in. Fans don't want to see another season of missing out because of infrastructure. Singh and his cronies become the only way to avoid another season wasted, by chucking in the money for a new stand.

If he didn't put the £40k into the playing budget now, we may not find ourselves particularly bothered about ground grading come January.

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Not going to happen. You'll have an investment proposal to vote on before January, I suspect before September. If its rejected then he'll be gone. He's not going to keep coming back offering 40K until eventually he's taken over and nobody realised! There is a takeover deal being prepared and Singh is part of it.

Or he bides his time, and as someone earlier suggested, he puts his takeover deal on the table just when we're desperate for an injection of cash.

I'm afraid that MG needs to make a decision - cut his cloth accordingly or move on. We can't be held to ransom by our own manager.

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[Yarblockos]

Or he bides his time, and as someone earlier suggested, he puts his takeover deal on the table just when we're desperate for an injection of cash.

I'm afraid that MG needs to make a decision - cut his cloth accordingly or move on. We can't be held to ransom by our own manager.

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Can you envisage a time where we aren't desperate for an injection of cash?

[Spyman]

Or he bides his time, and as someone earlier suggested, he puts his takeover deal on the table just when we're desperate for an injection of cash.

I'm afraid that MG needs to make a decision - cut his cloth accordingly or move on. We can't be held to ransom by our own manager.

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Can you envisage a time where we aren't desperate for an injection of cash?

Of course. If we accept what the club is and what's its natural level is. Build slowly and sustainably off the pitch and then progress as we can afford to do so.

Plenty of clubs continue in just that manner. Some get lucky and get a break that allows them to climb a little higher, some don't.

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[QUAKERMAN2]

Some people seem to have already decided that he intends to own the club outright and then do it harm... and all before hearing what he has to say. One step at a time, ask the questions and vote on what's being put before us.

Totally agree, Raj deserves to be heard before people pre judge his motives, for gods sake give him a chance to explain why he wants to come back and then vote.

[lo36789]

The Arena could and should be a huge asset to the town if managed properly.

Pure speculation but maybe a deal can be done involving MP moving to BM and DFC (plus cash) the other way. This would overcome the contractual issues and the grants wouldn't be that significant in the grand scheme of things.

The structural steel at the Arena will require re-painting within the next few years which will cost a significant sum.

This is so disrespectful. Let's just move the Mowden Park out of their home and give new tenants to their rival rugby team because we are the all powerful football club.

[SwansQuaker83]

It's a no from me. I want investment but not that badly. We do need to address the gaps in our current board tho.

[Beano]

Some people seem to have already decided that he intends to own the club outright and then do it harm... and all before hearing what he has to say. One step at a time, ask the questions and vote on what's being put before us.

Totally agree, Raj deserves to be heard before people pre judge his motives, for gods sake give him a chance to explain why he wants to come back and then vote.

He deserves bugger all. We owe him nothing, and he has it all to prove after burning his bridges previously.

[shawry]

This is risk free for me, there's no reason not to vote yes.

I'll address my vote for control as and when the deal is presented, however what will have a bearing is not just who is investing but how our board looks, whether we are still struggling for volunteers and whether we are finally cutting our cloth accordingly. Let's face it, we've struggled financially and are lucky to still be afloat, we've overspent consistently, and I'd hazard a guess that as things stand we are in an artificially high position.

For all our holier than thou attitude since becoming fan owned we've lurched from crisis to crisis relying on loans from fans and directors, yet belittling spenny and Gateshead ext for having a benefactor who covers the shortfall (arguably as gifts - not knowing their accounts)

I would add though. Surely RS could join the dfcsg and just invest 40k in the budget that way, that would buy him his time and actually wouldn't need a vote.

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[Yarblockos]

This is risk free for me, there's no reason not to vote yes.

I'll address my vote for control as and when the deal is presented, however what will have a bearing is not just who is investing but how our board looks, whether we are still struggling for volunteers and whether we are finally cutting our cloth accordingly. Let's face it, we've struggled financially and are lucky to still be afloat, we've overspent consistently, and I'd hazard a guess that as things stand we are in an artificially high position.

For all our holier than thou attitude since becoming fan owned we've lurched from crisis to crisis relying on loans from fans and directors, yet belittling spenny and Gateshead ext for having a benefactor who covers the shortfall (arguably as gifts - not knowing their accounts)

I would add though. Surely RS could join the dfcsg and just invest 40k in the budget that way, that would buy him his time and actually wouldn't need a vote.

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Actually that's a good point. Maybe it should be proposed or we'll never get to hear about the takeover.

[BUSHEAD]

Some people seem to have already decided that he intends to own the club outright and then do it harm... and all before hearing what he has to say. One step at a time, ask the questions and vote on what's being put before us.

Totally agree, Raj deserves to be heard before people pre judge his motives, for gods sake give him a chance to explain why he wants to come back and then vote.

No offence mate, but he can fuck right off.
He deserves to lick s*** off the soles of the feet of every Darlo fan that has been to Ossett, Hebburn , and Chorley . Then and only then, he can buy a programme and a 50/50 ticket.

[trevstanley]

What happens if in a years' time Darlington don't get promoted and there is another shortfall in Gray's playing budget? Do you accept another £40,000 from him in return for more shares and so on and so on ?

[shawry]

What happens if in a years' time Darlington don't get promoted and there is another shortfall in Gray's playing budget? Do you accept another £40,000 from him in return for more shares and so on and so on ?

The proposal for ownership will have been presented and accepted/refused by then

But ultimately if the dfcsg match the investment then he'll never own enough of the club to be able to do anything so so what

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[Mr_Tibbs]

Just received this by email:

NOTICE OF SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING

...

If the members vote in favour of this resolution, the DFCSG board will also seek approval from the members for the DFCSG to acquire additional DFC 1883 Ltd shares so that the DFCSG can maintain a controlling interest (>= 75% of the voting rights) in DFC 1883 Ltd after shares have been issued to Raj Singh. This is required to comply with the rules of the DFCSG. We propose to finance the purchase of these shares by converting some of the Community Share money loaned to DFC 1883 Ltd. by DFCSG into shares. We also propose to loan a proportion of the Boost the Budget contributions made by DFCSG members to DFC 1883 Ltd to replace the Community Share loan converted to shares (the remainder would be passed to DFC 1883 Ltd. as a donation). This is required to ensure that loan repayments from DFC1883 Ltd. are sufficient to cover Community Share repayments when they fall due. Again, DFCSG members will be given the opportunity to vote on this at the SGM.

The primary purpose of the above is to enable Raj Singh to provide some funds to complement the pledges being made to the ‘Boost the Budget’ initiative to enable Martin Gray to continue his team planning for next season.

I need some keener financial minds to explain that first bit to me. It sounds like this £40k costing us something?

Still voting no. I smell a rat. All the while we're talking about this we should be talking about how well the pitches are doing. I think we should tell him to take a hike and if MG doesn't like being left here with us laughing stock he should lace his boots up and follow him.

[leedscol]

If he is genuine and full of remorse or whatever why doesn't he just
become a member of DFCSG and donate his money that way?
Nobody could or would have any objection to that.

[Sleethy]

This is the first time I have posted on this forum for years.i can't believe anybody can even consider allowing this man anywhere near our football club again.i for one will vote no

[leedscol]

This is the first time I have posted on this forum for years.i can't believe anybody can even consider allowing this man anywhere near our football club again.i for one will vote no

I will probably abstain.If this is the way the majority want to go then good luck to them but no more money will be donated from my coffers.

[MikeinBlack2]

The constitution currently prevents any one individual from owning more than 15% of the club.

Raj buying £40,000 worth of shares will mean the budget is comfortably boosted whilst he has a shareholding of less than 15%.

In reality, if we accepted this cash injection but then decided after reviewing his further proposals that it would not suit our model going forward, then he can be blocked from acquiring any further shares.

He would simply be another shareholder, and he could either sit on his 40k of shares or start to sell off his shares if he wished.

As it stands the situation is a 40k cash boost with little to lose for us.

Right now, it's a no brainer.

I'm more interested in finding out WHY he wants to be back at the club though - it just makes no sense!

This.

This once more. We need the money quickly and even if another two investors as well as Raj had 15% each it would only total 45% and the fans would still be the major shareholder with 55%, to me it is at present a pretty good offer to us. The thing that concerns me is where do the Rugby Club come into this? They must have a say on any future development of the ground/land surely?

[super_les_mcjannet]

The constitution currently prevents any one individual from owning more than 15% of the club.

Raj buying £40,000 worth of shares will mean the budget is comfortably boosted whilst he has a shareholding of less than 15%.

In reality, if we accepted this cash injection but then decided after reviewing his further proposals that it would not suit our model going forward, then he can be blocked from acquiring any further shares.

He would simply be another shareholder, and he could either sit on his 40k of shares or start to sell off his shares if he wished.

As it stands the situation is a 40k cash boost with little to lose for us.

Right now, it's a no brainer.

I'm more interested in finding out WHY he wants to be back at the club though - it just makes no sense!

This.

This once more. We need the money quickly and even if another two investors as well as Raj had 15% each it would only total 45% and the fans would still be the major shareholder with 55%, to me it is at present a pretty good offer to us. The thing that concerns me is where do the Rugby Club come into this? They must have a say on any future development of the ground/land surely?

Which Rugby Club

[lo36789]

This once more. We need the money quickly and even if another two investors as well as Raj had 15% each it would only total 45% and the fans would still be the major shareholder with 55%, to me it is at present a pretty good offer to us. The thing that concerns me is where do the Rugby Club come into this? They must have a say on any future development of the ground/land surely?

Remember there are already plenty of individuals who already hold a 20% share in the club as things stand. Whilst 3 individuals owning less than 15% is indeed 45% the supporters share would be considerably less than 55%. In that circumstance we would have lost control as the current private investors it only takes a number of them to side with proposals by the 3 investors to change the structure of the club etc. and suddenly we are out cold.

That is probably my biggest concern with this actually. The Supporters Group have 80% of the shares as things stand. I don't know whether the SG vote will be applied proportionally or whether it is a majority vote determines the entire voting power of the SG.

If it is the later then I am pretty comfortable for us to drop to 75% ownership. Ultimately the 'will' of the fans as a majority will swing it.

My concern is that proportion representation will mean that it would take substantially less than a majority fan opinion to start making changes the club once we forgo significant shares to other individuals.

Imagine a situation where 49% of the club is in private investors, 51% with the Supporters. The Supports vote 90:10 against a proposal. All private investors vote for the proposal. If applied proportionally then the proposal which is against 90% of the supporters wishes goes through.

[Spyman]

The constitution currently prevents any one individual from owning more than 15% of the club.

Raj buying £40,000 worth of shares will mean the budget is comfortably boosted whilst he has a shareholding of less than 15%.

In reality, if we accepted this cash injection but then decided after reviewing his further proposals that it would not suit our model going forward, then he can be blocked from acquiring any further shares.

He would simply be another shareholder, and he could either sit on his 40k of shares or start to sell off his shares if he wished.

As it stands the situation is a 40k cash boost with little to lose for us.

Right now, it's a no brainer.

I'm more interested in finding out WHY he wants to be back at the club though - it just makes no sense!

This.

This once more. We need the money quickly and even if another two investors as well as Raj had 15% each it would only total 45% and the fans would still be the major shareholder with 55%, to me it is at present a pretty good offer to us. The thing that concerns me is where do the Rugby Club come into this? They must have a say on any future development of the ground/land surely?

That's all well and good, but what I distrust most about this whole offer is that the money from Singh is being put towards the playing budget - something that is ultimately a black hole regardless of whether we achieve the goal of promotion or not.

We should not be reliant on one-off investments for the playing budget, full stop. One-off investments are fine for one-off costs, such as ground development. Once that's spent the ground is there and remains there for the foreseeable future.

If we become reliant on sale of shares for £40k a season to keep the team competitive on the pitch then eventually this money dries up. Say we let two more people chuck in £40k alongside Singh. That's three seasons tops. What happens after that?

If Singh sees our future away from Blackwell Meadows and that is why he doesn't want to plough money into its development, then why on earth didn't he come forward a year or two ago?

I'm out of the country on Friday but I hope someone puts it to him that perhaps his £40k would be better spent on ground development than squad development.

[Comfortably_numb]

So....let's say Singh gains full control of the club in a few years time....we need to get thinking caps on to try list any possible ways he can make money from the club regardless of any implications.

That's the bottom line for me. If he feels he can make say 20% profit from any investment then I reckon he'll do whatever it takes to make that.

So....what assets do we have now to sell. And could a future single owner engineer scenarios to make money and perhaps leave the club / someone else with the debt...?