Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

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princes town
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by princes town » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:43 pm

There is still a bit of scope to re-arrange our current squad. I'm wondering if Chris Hunter, will play a more prominent role perhaps as part of a back 5. He has a lot of pace which may help us against the counter-attack. I'd also add that I think defending extends far beyond the back 4 and there is probably a need for a really strong, defensively minded central midfielder who can sit in and break up attacks.

Undercovered
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by Undercovered » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:09 pm

princes town wrote:There is still a bit of scope to re-arrange our current squad. I'm wondering if Chris Hunter, will play a more prominent role perhaps as part of a back 5. He has a lot of pace which may help us against the counter-attack. I'd also add that I think defending extends far beyond the back 4 and there is probably a need for a really strong, defensively minded central midfielder who can sit in and break up attacks.
Hunter is a decent shout, whilst Marrs has been very good he doesn't have the express pace of Hunter to bail the back 4 out. Trouble is, Hunter has proven at a lower level that he struggles positionally at CB and needs the right partner to keep him in check. I don't think either Burgess nor Brown is that person so the only position for him at the moment is RB.

I don't think 5 at the back or a defensive CM will help the current problems as we're hardly getting played through that much during normal game play. The two issues are when we're caught on the counter leaving 2 v 2 or from set pieces. Curzon clearly did their homework as others now have who are exploiting this.

For all Gloucester were poor and we also were first half I was much more comfortable with that style of approach at the moment - winning ugly by not committing men too early in the game and everyone doing their jobs
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bga
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by bga » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:31 pm

quaker4life wrote:Our league record since November:

P11 W2 D4 L5

Speaks for itself really, relegation form.

I've always thought we are well and truly punching to be anywhere near the top 5 in this league, we have reached a ceiling it was inevitable and unfortunately certain players have reached their ceiling too.

As far as I'm concerned any talk of the play offs or even the National League at this stage are redundant, the team on the pitch isn't good enough and neither is the ground, as Quakerz said elsewhere in the thread if we were to somehow go up again this season we would get hounded.

I think a lot of fans have taken our success over the last few years for granted and certainly our impressive form earlier in the season raised expectations but even then we got away with a few Alty, Stockport, Curzon and Bradford in particular. Our defensive frailties have been apparent all season even Telford and Worcester in 17th and 18th respectively have conceded fewer goals.

I think it is only a matter of time before the likes of Tamworth, Halifax, Stockport and Brackley over take us two of whom we have yet to play again as well as Chorley next week and Fylde and Salford still to come before the end of the season and honestly on yesterday's showing I can't see us troubling them.

The most frustrating thing for me yesterday was not so much the defeat but the manner in which we conceded those goals it was schoolboy stuff far, far too easy for a (with respect) bottom half Curzon Ashton team to carve us open, I take into account the impressive result they had against Fylde last week but Matty Warburton won't have an easier afternoon all season. We simply have no concept of shape and discipline at the back and are almost totally inept at picking up runners from midfield the space their #7 was finding himself in was unbelievable had the freedom of Darlo to run into our penalty area and set up the second.

Overall I can see us finishing outside the play offs come April but if you'd told me we'd finish in the top half and be back in town at the beginning of the season I'd have taken that all day long.

For me all it's about the here and now and we're in this league let's stay here and take stock in the summer, there is still a great deal of work to do both on and off the pitch let's not try and sprint before we can crawl.

Edit: apologies for earlier grammatical error!
Agree with this but I think you may have forgotten to include our FA Trophy games in the above stats so it gets worse! :o

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:57 pm

It's amazing we're still 5th after this bad run, but we can turn it round.
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Yarblockos
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:17 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:It's amazing we're still 5th after this bad run, but we can turn it round.
To be fair, all the teams immediately behind us have games in hand, so we could well find ourselves around 7th or 8th after those are played. On the positive side, after we play Chorley we have a good run of games against teams in the bottom half of the table, starting wth rock bottom Altrincham. If we can't pick up points there then we really are struggling.

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D_F_C
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by D_F_C » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:02 pm

The first thing I noticed was how their two centre backs looked so much bigger than ours and Kev Burgess is a muscly guy. They also didn't lack pace, something which both of ours do (especially Brown). These are also centre backs that will be average in this league and they showed ours up a bit.

I'm not desperate for massive changes as I think we've played beyond ourselves this season. I think that being up there in the early part of the season has masked some people's expectations. We are still 5th and in the hunt and we now know that counter-attacking is a big threat against us. They didn't exactly carve us open other than on the counter.

I don't share some people's opinions about Galbraith. I think he's improved his defending and him and Marrs are fine.

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HarrytheQuaker
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by HarrytheQuaker » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:53 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
theoriginalfatcat wrote:It's amazing we're still 5th after this bad run, but we can turn it round.
To be fair, all the teams immediately behind us have games in hand, so we could well find ourselves around 7th or 8th after those are played. On the positive side, after we play Chorley we have a good run of games against teams in the bottom half of the table, starting wth rock bottom Altrincham. If we can't pick up points there then we really are struggling.
Yeah cos they are all easy games in this league, it don't matter who we play regardless where they are if we don't do the basics right then we are in trouble

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:07 pm

HarrytheQuaker wrote:Yeah cos they are all easy games in this league, it don't matter who we play regardless where they are if we don't do the basics right then we are in trouble
Seriously, Altrincham? Have you had a look at the table? If we lose to them we really are s***.

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by Darlo_Pete » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:33 pm

Without a big improvement in form, we're heading for hammering next week at Chorley.

Undercovered
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by Undercovered » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:15 am

Darlo_Pete wrote:Without a big improvement in form, we're heading for hammering next week at Chorley.
We drew 3-3 away to a very good outfit in Stockport just 9 days ago
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lo36789
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:39 am

Yarblockos wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:Yeah cos they are all easy games in this league, it don't matter who we play regardless where they are if we don't do the basics right then we are in trouble
Seriously, Altrincham? Have you had a look at the table? If we lose to them we really are s***.
They have had a change of management in January. Have relatively recently signed Gary Jones (many probably remember him) and Andy Owens who is a bit of a handful.

Think it is incredibly disrespectful to both the opposition and our players to suggest that.

On Curzon Ashton since re-signing Matty Warburton they have beaten Fylde (and good value for it) and then us, from what I am picking up he was pretty instrumental in their performance on Saturday.

The league table is an exceptionally narrow way to judge the merits of a result.

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:55 am

lo36789 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:Yeah cos they are all easy games in this league, it don't matter who we play regardless where they are if we don't do the basics right then we are in trouble
Seriously, Altrincham? Have you had a look at the table? If we lose to them we really are s***.
They have had a change of management in January. Have relatively recently signed Gary Jones (many probably remember him) and Andy Owens who is a bit of a handful.

Think it is incredibly disrespectful to both the opposition and our players to suggest that.
Spare us the sanctimony.

Altrincham are the only side in English football's top 7 tiers to have a single figure points total.

It is not "disrespectful" to say that losing at home to an incredibly poor Altrincham side would be a horrendous result. The fact they have a player who you vaguely describe as being "a bit of a handful" doesn't change this.

The league table tells us everything we need to know in this instance.
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:20 am

Darlogramps wrote:It is not "disrespectful" to say that losing at home to an incredibly poor Altrincham side would be a horrendous result.
There is a difference between a horrendous result and "we are really sh*t". Just because you don't beat someone you should isn't an instant reflection on your actual ability.

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feethams
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by feethams » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:48 am

Personally - I don't think we played THAT badly on Saturday. The second two goals were a result of us being caught on the break when pushing too far on. School boy errors. Thomo upfront was not a good move for me. Too many times he was drifting out wide, which left Beck having no-one to knock the ball down to. I feel we need someone with a bit more attacking presence coming in from centre midfield, as Turnbull sits back, but Scott is not in the right places. To me Scott has always been a holding midfielder too, which leaves too much of a gap between the forwards and our midfield.

So many times we seem to get the ball into the box - the defence clears it, and we never have anyone around the edge of the box to pick up the second ball.

Wonder if Gray would consider using Marrs and Tez as wingbacks - with Brown, Burgess and Hunter as a back 3. Turnbull in the middle and then Beck up top with support from Gillies, Cartman and Thommo?

A sort of 5 - 1 - 3 - 1 formation?

QUAKERMAN2
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by QUAKERMAN2 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:00 am

Some good points there Feethams, for me Chris Hunter HAS to be in the team for his pace and strength and as I said in an earlier post, if the coaching staff can get a better system going then we can certainly end the season in the top 5.We still have a very good squad no question, that's a decent shout.Agreed about Thommo, needs to revert back to wide right and Carts has to come back in.Still think we can beat Chorley on Saturday and go on a good run with those fixtures coming up.

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by al_quaker » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:13 am

When Syers came in I thought we were going to switch to a 433 type system. Syers Turnbull and Falkingham in the middle, Gillies and Thompson playing off Beck. At the time it looked like it got our best players in their best positions, and gives an extra body in the midfield to help solidify us. Syers making forward runs, Falkingham breaking up play, Turnbull a bit of freedom to help out at both ends, and it would lessen the defensive burden on Gillies and Thompson. Worked pretty well against Fylde - we should have beaten the best team in the league, and managed to keep the best striker in the league pretty quiet.

Problem is, Falkingham seems to have gone off the boil, Syers hasn't had too many chances, and that system won't work if we persist with the big boot up to Beck 9/10 times, as players wouldn't be close enough to him to pick up the second ball. Maybe the pitch at BM won't let us play through midfield so much.

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by Darlogramps » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:32 am

lo36789 wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:It is not "disrespectful" to say that losing at home to an incredibly poor Altrincham side would be a horrendous result.
There is a difference between a horrendous result and "we are really sh*t". Just because you don't beat someone you should isn't an instant reflection on your actual ability.
I think you're interpreting the "We really are s***" a little too literally.

I took that to mean the run of form we're on, as opposed to actual ability. I do also object to the lazy need to fall back on the abstract idea of "disrespect" just because you disagree with criticism of ourselves and another club.
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feethams
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by feethams » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:57 am

Syers had an awful game against Fylde where he missed 2-3 excellent chances - since then he has hardly figured, this maybe a confidence issue, personally i don't think Gray knows Syers best position.

Falkingham looks better coming on as a sub than he does starting. In Stockport he proved really useful, and on Saturday I don't think he was too bad at fullback. I actually like how Falkingham plays - he reminds me of Martin Gray when he was playing.

There is no question the pitch at BM is woeful, and compared to Bishop is causing us issues with playing the ball to feet. The long ball up to Beck is great when it works. Example being Stockport where Beck was involved in every goal. Unfortunately, when our opposition is able to counter it, or the ref isn't keen on the grappling, then we need a second outlet and that has to be the width / pace of the likes of Thomo and Cartman.

I think our main issue right now is the team is very unsettled and various players have question marks over there best position/role. With the exception of Turnbull - who knows what our best midfield formation/line up is???

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:21 pm

As regards the pitch, Curzon managed to play some very nice, intricate passing moves at times without too much difficulty. Our play is all about winning set pieces - corners, free kicks and throw ins - and capitalising from these. If it wasn't, Beck wouldn't be immune to substitution.

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by al_quaker » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:36 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:As regards the pitch, Curzon managed to play some very nice, intricate passing moves at times without too much difficulty. Our play is all about winning set pieces - corners, free kicks and throw ins - and capitalising from these. If it wasn't, Beck wouldn't be immune to substitution.
Beck is also comfortably our best striker. Teams don't often substitute their best striker.

You're right about the pitch - Turnbull can still pass pretty well on it. . I'm not suddenly expecting us to turn into Barcelona, I just feel we are becoming increasingly one dimensional at home. A bit of width and midfield runners would give the opposition a few more problems. Syers may have missed a few chances against Fylde, but at least we created them. Saturday, for all we huffed and puffed, we never really created many clear cut chances. Teams now know they just need to sit back, deal with the long ball, and break quickly.

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:57 pm

They do if they are having no influence on a game. Beck is our best striker because the way we play is all set up around his game. That is why we are one dimensional. Trouble is, when teams cope with him comfortably, as Curzon did, he becomes a passenger.

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by JE93 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:03 pm

Poor result for us on Saturday in what is proving to be a bit of a cross roads in our season. I agree with the thoughts that we over achieved at the start of the season. I think the fact that our new players (Beck, Gillies and Marrs) quickly fit in to what was an established formation and team helped us kick on early in the season. Now it's certainly the case that teams around us have found their feet and improved since the start of the season. There are two options really, a change in formation or a change in personnel. In my personal opinion we probably require a bit of both.

Across all our team I think our weaker positions are CB and GK. In both we could really do with a bit of an experienced and vocal head. Someone who has played at a higher level and reads the game and communicates what they see well. This being said I doubt many of this kind of player will be available until Summer, but waiting for the right players could turn us into title challengers.

As for formation we are fairly lucky, in that within the squad we have the players to play a multitude of formations. 4-4-2 has been our favoured method up to now but playing 4 pure attacking players in Beck, Cartman, Thompson and Gillies seems to have caught up with us.

Perhaps we should go with 4-2-3-1 for a while with Syers in the n.10 role when we have the ball but dropping back into a Midfield 3 when we lose the ball. This offers the CB's more cover but also gives us an attacking threat through the centre with Syers making late runs into the box like for the goal away to Kiddy.

Or slightly more extreme, could we try Chelsea's 3-4-3 formation. Putting 3CB's Hunter Burgess and Brown gives us a robust backline with Hunters pace there to bail us out. Marr and Galbraith/Ferguson playing wide. Turnbull partnered by one of Falkringham or Scott. Then Beck as the spearhead of the front 3 with the ability to play Thompson, Gillies, Cartman or Syers either side of him.

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by al_quaker » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:24 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:They do if they are having no influence on a game. Beck is our best striker because the way we play is all set up around his game. That is why we are one dimensional. Trouble is, when teams cope with him comfortably, as Curzon did, he becomes a passenger.
He's our best striker because he's our most talented striker. If we passed it around a bit more and weren't so one dimensional he'd be more effective. His best games have come away from home, where we do actually vary our attacking focus somewhat.

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by Yarblockos » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:46 pm

lo36789 wrote:
Yarblockos wrote:
HarrytheQuaker wrote:Yeah cos they are all easy games in this league, it don't matter who we play regardless where they are if we don't do the basics right then we are in trouble
Seriously, Altrincham? Have you had a look at the table? If we lose to them we really are s***.
They have had a change of management in January. Have relatively recently signed Gary Jones (many probably remember him) and Andy Owens who is a bit of a handful.

Think it is incredibly disrespectful to both the opposition and our players to suggest that.

On Curzon Ashton since re-signing Matty Warburton they have beaten Fylde (and good value for it) and then us, from what I am picking up he was pretty instrumental in their performance on Saturday.

The league table is an exceptionally narrow way to judge the merits of a result.
May I apologise to Altrincham and any hurt I may have caused them or any small children I may have endangered. Their record of one win all season clearly does not reflect how good they are, and I'm sure we will face one of the toughest games in our history when we play then next month.

Since taking over in December their new manager has successfully led the side to 2 points from 8 games, thus its clear he has turned things around. Even though they haven't won since October, it would clearly be no shame to lose to such a quality side.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:26 pm

Shame they weren't like that in the opening game-took us right to the wire, didn't they?!

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by Sidarlo » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:37 pm

Quick piece on Saturday's loss. https://simonhahn89.wordpress.com/2017/ ... nd-better/

As others have said I think we need to change something at the back, but not sure what. What is Ferguson's actual position, was he not signed as a defender?

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Re: Darlington FC v Curzon Ashton

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:04 pm

al_quaker wrote:
HarryCharltonsCat wrote:They do if they are having no influence on a game. Beck is our best striker because the way we play is all set up around his game. That is why we are one dimensional. Trouble is, when teams cope with him comfortably, as Curzon did, he becomes a passenger.
He's our best striker because he's our most talented striker. If we passed it around a bit more and weren't so one dimensional he'd be more effective. His best games have come away from home, where we do actually vary our attacking focus somewhat.
We might have different definitions of talented.

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