The home of DFC

[biccynana]

Easily resolved Welcome to the home of DARLINGTON RUGBY & FOOTBALL CLUB.

Perfectly good suggestion, with one minor tweak: Clubs, plural, otherwise it looks like we’re one entity.

[Spyman]

Yes but we were in Bishop then, people thought when back in Darlo it would be 2500 + every home game easy..

Go on, I'll have a bite...

No one said we'd be getting 2,500+ every home game easy.

Some people (like me) thought we would average 2,000 basing that on the likes of Maidstone's crowds when they returned home.

We haven't retained as many of the latent fanbase as I thought we would after our exile.

Our average at BM so far is 1,946.

Without knowing the details of the grounds Maidstone etc returned to, I'd hazard a guess that we'd have retained more of the boxing day crowd if we'd had a ready made football ground. What we have is a converted, quick-fix. Not ideal but the best we could do with the time and resource available.

I'm sure if we'd had a ready made feethams type setup we'd have kept a few hundred more but we'll have to bring them back over time.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[super_les_mcjannet]

It was always my worry that when we get back we have the initial increase and then it levels back off.

My main worry was that no seats and poor view would cause us an issue keeping fans, those who have popped along to see what it's about coming back after the initial visit. We need more seats, constantly every game they are people trying to take seats and being a little upset when they are told they are taken and they need to move. This is often older folk or people with kids, people who maybe think a seat is a minimum they require.

It's going to take us some time to build attendances, in fairness our attendances are pretty much as good as they were the last season in Darlo and probably the year before. Building ourselves back in the community is going to take time and a lot of work, you do now see a lot of 12-16 year olds at the match which is good because this was always a key age for getting into football.

[super_les_mcjannet]

Yes but we were in Bishop then, people thought when back in Darlo it would be 2500 + every home game easy..

Go on, I'll have a bite...

No one said we'd be getting 2,500+ every home game easy.

Some people (like me) thought we would average 2,000 basing that on the likes of Maidstone's crowds when they returned home.

We haven't retained as many of the latent fanbase as I thought we would after our exile.

Our average at BM so far is 1,946.

Last year on a thread quite a few people shot me down for saying we would not get 2500... As plenty of people thought we would that's all I'm saying... As for the average let's wait till we have had a full season at BM...

You seem to mention this every time and have a satisfaction if the crowd is low, others had a different opinion get over it. You may well be right we may slump down to 1,500 even for the big games (I don't think we will) but you seem to have taken it personally that people didn't agree with you.

[HarrytheQuaker]

Yes but we were in Bishop then, people thought when back in Darlo it would be 2500 + every home game easy..

Go on, I'll have a bite...

No one said we'd be getting 2,500+ every home game easy.

Some people (like me) thought we would average 2,000 basing that on the likes of Maidstone's crowds when they returned home.

We haven't retained as many of the latent fanbase as I thought we would after our exile.

Our average at BM so far is 1,946.

Last year on a thread quite a few people shot me down for saying we would not get 2500... As plenty of people thought we would that's all I'm saying... As for the average let's wait till we have had a full season at BM...

You seem to mention this every time and have a satisfaction if the crowd is low, others had a different opinion get over it. You may well be right we may slump down to 1,500 even for the big games (I don't think we will) but you seem to have taken it personally that people didn't agree with you.

I don't get any satisfaction at all I am been realistic like I've always been , I support Darlo where ever we play I m glad we still have a club but BM is not the answer I've never agreed with playing there and never will BUT I will always support the club till the day I die...

[DarloDave40]

If we had gone back to the Arena can you imagine all the criticism it's to large, to cold, no atmosphere and so on. We are where we are until the ownership model changes so let's just make the most of it and get behind our band of volunteers who run the club.

[Yarblockos]

It was always my worry that when we get back we have the initial increase and then it levels back off.

My main worry was that no seats and poor view would cause us an issue keeping fans, those who have popped along to see what it's about coming back after the initial visit. We need more seats, constantly every game they are people trying to take seats and being a little upset when they are told they are taken and they need to move. This is often older folk or people with kids, people who maybe think a seat is a minimum they require.

It's going to take us some time to build attendances, in fairness our attendances are pretty much as good as they were the last season in Darlo and probably the year before. Building ourselves back in the community is going to take time and a lot of work, you do now see a lot of 12-16 year olds at the match which is good because this was always a key age for getting into football.

I agree that we need more (and probably better) seating, but I guess financial restrictions mean we'll have to build another set of seating identical to the one we have. What surprises me is that the seats are not full and haven't been full since the game against Halifax. I counted at least 50 empty seats last match.

[quakerste]

Around 20 seats are reserved for hospitality each game, however a lot of them stay in the clubhouse and watch from the verander.

[Darlo_Pete]

i thought all the seats had been purchased before we returned to Darlo?

[dickdarlington]

There is twice as much terracing at Blackwell under the Tin Shed than there is at Bish. There are 50 more seats, and at least another 200 to come as the club prepares for the conference. Once in the conference, there will be another 1000 terraced spaces (though this will probably be once we achieve promotion as it's when the next wedge of grant money is released). In time, the viewing experience will improve. Based on 2k in the ground, the experience isn't too bad at all. 3k on the first game was a challenge and everyone has accepted it, and admitted mistakes were made.

Ignoring the gripes people have about both sides, I think people are already looking at our time at Bish with rose tinted specticles. It coincided with the most exciting period in our clubs recent history. But simply put the facilities at BM are a step up as it's geared for the division above that of Heritage Park. Ergo, it must be better.

Also, i went to the England U20s game at the Arena last month, and the bad memories came flooding back. We're much better throwing all our eggs into the BM basket, unless one of us wins the lottery. In time, an equilibrium will have to be found.

This doesn't mean I'm happy with the perceived actions of the rugby club, but progress has been made, and will continue to be made. Lets see the what happens at the fans forum, and reassess after that.

We managed to exist at Feethams for a century as tennants to a smaller entity. As long at we're given the space to grow to become a football league club once more, everyone will benefit. The football club, the rugby club, and those who are owed money.

[loan_star]

Talk of the grass bank at Bishop is also misleading as this shouldn't have been used for standing. Yes I know it was but the authorities could easily have had it fenced off and then things would be a lot worse than they are at Blackwell.

[super_les_mcjannet]

There is twice as much terracing at Blackwell under the Tin Shed than there is at Bish. There are 50 more seats, and at least another 200 to come as the club prepares for the conference.

That's a positive spin to be honest, but the realistic view is that we have less seats because at Bishop we had two stands for seats (main and behind the goal) which was about 500 seats. A lot of day trippers would use the temp seats behind the goal.

Tin Shed was calculated at 200 more than Bishop I believe so from 900 to 1,100 but no grass bank we have the Rugby Club side which a chunk of it is a poor view.

I don't think we could do anymore so it's not a dig at the Board, you just have to understand where we are, so we can move forward. You are right it will take time and things will improve but the viewing experience, seats/covered etc doesn't bring people back, neither does the football I like it as it's real and gritty but I have bought into the whole club thing, our past doesn't help.

However as mentioned earlier by someone on the days we play Halifax, Stockport, Kidderminster, Chorley, York, Blyth etc. crowds will be above 2k.

It's a long game for us and we just have to keep building and supporting, encouraging others where we can.

[al_quaker]

But simply put the facilities at BM are a step up as it's geared for the division above that of Heritage Park. Ergo, it must be better.

Don't necessarily agree with this. BM may be better at ticking the boxes of ground grading, but I think the views are worse than at HP, which is pretty fundamental to a football stadium. So to say it's a better ground because it's got a higher grading isn't necessarily true.

We're much better throwing all our eggs into the BM basket, unless one of us wins the lottery. In time, an equilibrium will have to be found.

Much prefer BM to the Arena, don't get me wrong. Far more suitable for us as a club, and given a few years (and a lot of money!) should be a decent enough ground (seeing a long term plan from the club would be interesting).

I do have an underlying fear with throwing all the eggs into the BM basket though (and I appreciate it's pretty much the only option we had). It's obvious there is some resistance in the rugby club to our presence. Come the end of our 20 year agreement, we will have spent a lot of money on BM, but the rugby club may not need our money anymore. I'm just very worried as to what may happen in such a situation - a long term and hypothetical worry I know, and hopefully I'm either completely wrong(!), or that any resistance within the rugby club will turn to something more positive as we go on.

[don'tbuythesun]

And if we pushed for and reached the play-offs I'm sure we'd hit 2000.

[theoriginalfatcat]

But simply put the facilities at BM are a step up as it's geared for the division above that of Heritage Park. Ergo, it must be better.

You are so wrong. At present, most of the things that make watching a game of football are worse than they were at H.P.. The way you're pushed back from the side of the pitch and can't get any height - the pitch itself, I could go on.

I realise we had to move, and that we have to put a brave face on things, but to say that B.M. is better because of the grading thing is nonsense.

[Yarblockos]

But simply put the facilities at BM are a step up as it's geared for the division above that of Heritage Park. Ergo, it must be better.

Don't necessarily agree with this. BM may be better at ticking the boxes of ground grading, but I think the views are worse than at HP, which is pretty fundamental to a football stadium. So to say it's a better ground because it's got a higher grading isn't necessarily true.

We're much better throwing all our eggs into the BM basket, unless one of us wins the lottery. In time, an equilibrium will have to be found.

Much prefer BM to the Arena, don't get me wrong. Far more suitable for us as a club, and given a few years (and a lot of money!) should be a decent enough ground (seeing a long term plan from the club would be interesting).

I do have an underlying fear with throwing all the eggs into the BM basket though (and I appreciate it's pretty much the only option we had). It's obvious there is some resistance in the rugby club to our presence. Come the end of our 20 year agreement, we will have spent a lot of money on BM, but the rugby club may not need our money anymore. I'm just very worried as to what may happen in such a situation - a long term and hypothetical worry I know, and hopefully I'm either completely wrong(!), or that any resistance within the rugby club will turn to something more positive as we go on.

I think you'll find that the rugby club will become more and more dependent on income from the football side of things as time progresses. At the AGM it was mentioned that we could find ourselves in a much stronger position in a few years time and may be able to negotiate a better deal. At the current moment we have no leverage whatsoever. We desperately needed a ground and had no other options. The rugby club could really call the shots when it came to negotiating. However, financially they have been struggling. In a few years time you might find a rugby club that is dependent on the football club to stay there in order to survive, and they might be a bit more wary of pissing us off.

[Yarblockos]

There is twice as much terracing at Blackwell under the Tin Shed than there is at Bish. There are 50 more seats, and at least another 200 to come as the club prepares for the conference.

That's a positive spin to be honest, but the realistic view is that we have less seats because at Bishop we had two stands for seats (main and behind the goal) which was about 500 seats. A lot of day trippers would use the temp seats behind the goal.

Tin Shed was calculated at 200 more than Bishop I believe so from 900 to 1,100 but no grass bank we have the Rugby Club side which a chunk of it is a poor view.

I don't think we could do anymore so it's not a dig at the Board, you just have to understand where we are, so we can move forward. You are right it will take time and things will improve but the viewing experience, seats/covered etc doesn't bring people back, neither does the football I like it as it's real and gritty but I have bought into the whole club thing, our past doesn't help.

However as mentioned earlier by someone on the days we play Halifax, Stockport, Kidderminster, Chorley, York, Blyth etc. crowds will be above 2k.

It's a long game for us and we just have to keep building and supporting, encouraging others where we can.

Unfortuantely this is the truth. We have to look at it as one step backward in order to take two steps forward.

The matchday experience at BM is poor, but it will get better. The pitch will improve, the terracing will improve. If we stayed at Bishop we wouldn't be able to compete, we'd have a much smaller budget, crowds would decrease and we'd be in trouble. We were desperate and the move to BM was the only realistic option. We took the cheapest option for the seating etc. and it clearly shows. However, we now have a future, even though it might take another 2 years before we are on a steady footing. Eventually, the increased income from hospitality etc. will start to make a difference.

I can see why people are worried because, yes, it is pretty s*** watching football at BM. However, it will definitely get better. The only way this will happen is by raising money, not just through the gate, but through sponsorships and local businesses. I suspect we could build the ground much more quickly if we slashed the playing budget. But remember, a good stadium and a s*** team is not a combination we want, we've had that before and we don't want to go back there. People don't turn up to watch seats.

[DarloDave40]

There is twice as much terracing at Blackwell under the Tin Shed than there is at Bish. There are 50 more seats, and at least another 200 to come as the club prepares for the conference.

That's a positive spin to be honest, but the realistic view is that we have less seats because at Bishop we had two stands for seats (main and behind the goal) which was about 500 seats. A lot of day trippers would use the temp seats behind the goal.

Tin Shed was calculated at 200 more than Bishop I believe so from 900 to 1,100 but no grass bank we have the Rugby Club side which a chunk of it is a poor view.

I don't think we could do anymore so it's not a dig at the Board, you just have to understand where we are, so we can move forward. You are right it will take time and things will improve but the viewing experience, seats/covered etc doesn't bring people back, neither does the football I like it as it's real and gritty but I have bought into the whole club thing, our past doesn't help.

However as mentioned earlier by someone on the days we play Halifax, Stockport, Kidderminster, Chorley, York, Blyth etc. crowds will be above 2k.

It's a long game for us and we just have to keep building and supporting, encouraging others where we can.

Unfortuantely this is the truth. We have to look at it as one step backward in order to take two steps forward.

The matchday experience at BM is poor, but it will get better. The pitch will improve, the terracing will improve. If we stayed at Bishop we wouldn't be able to compete, we'd have a much smaller budget, crowds would decrease and we'd be in trouble. We were desperate and the move to BM was the only realistic option. We took the cheapest option for the seating etc. and it clearly shows. However, we now have a future, even though it might take another 2 years before we are on a steady footing. Eventually, the increased income from hospitality etc. will start to make a difference.

I can see why people are worried because, yes, it is pretty s*** watching football at BM. However, it will definitely get better. The only way this will happen is by raising money, not just through the gate, but through sponsorships and local businesses. I suspect we could build the ground much more quickly if we slashed the playing budget. But remember, a good stadium and a s*** team is not a combination we want, we've had that before and we don't want to go back there. People don't turn up to watch seats.

I think above sums up extremely well where we are and can potentially build upon. The only way the club can proceed is if we all dig deep into our pockets what will be interesting is how far people actually will.

One thing though At Bishop the club got away with things as under FA rules there should not of been any standing on grass areas at all.

[al_quaker]

But simply put the facilities at BM are a step up as it's geared for the division above that of Heritage Park. Ergo, it must be better.

Don't necessarily agree with this. BM may be better at ticking the boxes of ground grading, but I think the views are worse than at HP, which is pretty fundamental to a football stadium. So to say it's a better ground because it's got a higher grading isn't necessarily true.

We're much better throwing all our eggs into the BM basket, unless one of us wins the lottery. In time, an equilibrium will have to be found.

Much prefer BM to the Arena, don't get me wrong. Far more suitable for us as a club, and given a few years (and a lot of money!) should be a decent enough ground (seeing a long term plan from the club would be interesting).

I do have an underlying fear with throwing all the eggs into the BM basket though (and I appreciate it's pretty much the only option we had). It's obvious there is some resistance in the rugby club to our presence. Come the end of our 20 year agreement, we will have spent a lot of money on BM, but the rugby club may not need our money anymore. I'm just very worried as to what may happen in such a situation - a long term and hypothetical worry I know, and hopefully I'm either completely wrong(!), or that any resistance within the rugby club will turn to something more positive as we go on.

I think you'll find that the rugby club will become more and more dependent on income from the football side of things as time progresses. At the AGM it was mentioned that we could find ourselves in a much stronger position in a few years time and may be able to negotiate a better deal. At the current moment we have no leverage whatsoever. We desperately needed a ground and had no other options. The rugby club could really call the shots when it came to negotiating. However, financially they have been struggling. In a few years time you might find a rugby club that is dependent on the football club to stay there in order to survive, and they might be a bit more wary of pissing us off.

Fair points, and I do hope you're right. I'm not hoping for the rugby club to be financially dependent on us per se, rather that all their members see the benefits of a positive partnership, and by forging a good relationship, they will make more money in the long term.

[beatroute66]

I'd like to think that I have a somewhat balanced take on all of this.

Love that the club is actually back playing in Darlington again after five years away (even as someone who was born in Stockton, raised in Eaglescliffe and now lives in Ingleby Barwick...), even better that it's no longer at the Arena. A football club should play in it's home town.

Whilst we weren't able to have our own place, HP was the perfect solution. The ground was good enough for what we needed, the match day experience was more than pleasant and (as someone else points out above) we saw four-and-a-bit seasons of superb football there. Some of the best times I've had following the club these last 27/28 years. I'll always look back on the HP years with fondness and rightly so.

As a lot of other folk clearly did, I really struggled with BM early on. I'm a man of routine (it took us 2/3 games to get into a match day routine that now 'works'...) and it wasn't until we made a corner spot in the Tin Shed our own at match #3 that I could really see the game properly. Being brutal, the standing options outside of the TS aren't great and I know that all of the seating is pretty much taken before you even step into the ground. Clearly this will be on an agenda somewhere, I would imagine.

The pitch is also clearly a problem, but then that was pretty much what I expected when I first heard that we were going to be sharing with a rugby club.

Things like the bar, the catering, etc, have definitely improved since Boxing Day - as I say, I've now developed a routine at the games where I know where I'm standing, I can see the game, I can get a programme, I can buy a reasonably priced tea, I can 'use the facilities' quickly enough and so on. All you need out with of what the team do.

Playing DA, I think most of what Richard Cook said about BM in Saturday's programme is right. Work is still needed on the pitch (it is pretty grim), the relationship with the RC, car parking and some aspects of the match day experience (especially if a big crowd game rolls round...), but on the whole there has been a positive shift since the first game or two and definite improvements.

All that said, something just hasn't quite *clicked* at BM yet - for the fans or for the players, I'm sensing. The move took place during an iffy bit of form and I don't think it helped on the pitch. Sometimes the ground seems quiet and both the fans and the players seem to be waiting for the other to spark something. Sometimes the noise at HP was pretty impressive and I genuinely believe we spurred the team on to some remarkable results over those 4-5 years. I also note some recent minor Twitter spats between fans, writers and players that won't be helping.

Perhaps the club needs a summer and then a full season at BM? It's still very early days and we shouldn't underestimate the upheaval of the last few months. Moving grounds, even at our level, isn't easy and can take time to adjust to.

We all need to give this some time and keep things in perspective a little.

[Allan Quatermain]

I'd like to think that I have a somewhat balanced take on all of this.

Love that the club is actually back playing in Darlington again after five years away (even as someone who was born in Stockton, raised in Eaglescliffe and now lives in Ingleby Barwick...), even better that it's no longer at the Arena. A football club should play in it's home town.

Whilst we weren't able to have our own place, HP was the perfect solution. The ground was good enough for what we needed, the match day experience was more than pleasant and (as someone else points out above) we saw four-and-a-bit seasons of superb football there. Some of the best times I've had following the club these last 27/28 years. I'll always look back on the HP years with fondness and rightly so.

As a lot of other folk clearly did, I really struggled with BM early on. I'm a man of routine (it took us 2/3 games to get into a match day routine that now 'works'...) and it wasn't until we made a corner spot in the Tin Shed our own at match #3 that I could really see the game properly. Being brutal, the standing options outside of the TS aren't great and I know that all of the seating is pretty much taken before you even step into the ground. Clearly this will be on an agenda somewhere, I would imagine.

The pitch is also clearly a problem, but then that was pretty much what I expected when I first heard that we were going to be sharing with a rugby club.

Things like the bar, the catering, etc, have definitely improved since Boxing Day - as I say, I've now developed a routine at the games where I know where I'm standing, I can see the game, I can get a programme, I can buy a reasonably priced tea, I can 'use the facilities' quickly enough and so on. All you need out with of what the team do.

Playing DA, I think most of what Richard Cook said about BM in Saturday's programme is right. Work is still needed on the pitch (it is pretty grim), the relationship with the RC, car parking and some aspects of the match day experience (especially if a big crowd game rolls round...), but on the whole there has been a positive shift since the first game or two and definite improvements.

All that said, something just hasn't quite *clicked* at BM yet - for the fans or for the players, I'm sensing. The move took place during an iffy bit of form and I don't think it helped on the pitch. Sometimes the ground seems quiet and both the fans and the players seem to be waiting for the other to spark something. Sometimes the noise at HP was pretty impressive and I genuinely believe we spurred the team on to some remarkable results over those 4-5 years. I also note some recent minor Twitter spats between fans, writers and players that won't be helping.

Perhaps the club needs a summer and then a full season at BM? It's still very early days and we shouldn't underestimate the upheaval of the last few months. Moving grounds, even at our level, isn't easy and can take time to adjust to.

We all need to give this some time and keep things in perspective a little.

Beatroute66 = the voice of reason (again).

I agree with pretty much all of that, BM doesn't yet feel like home yet but I so much want it to. I can't wait for the day I decide to get membership of the Rugby Club and feel at home going down to watch both sports. I also look forward to the day we develop a relationship when we start to have joint social events and fundraisers; both clubs will benefit from them so the sooner we get to that point the better.

I'm aware of some of the initial barriers to this partnership and also some of hurdles we've faced since we started playing there but it's good to see them gradually being overcome but as stated above, this will take some time.

Unfortunately I'm not very good at keeping things in perspective like Beatty asked for (but I promise I'll try).

[Maurice_Peddelty]

I think “The matchday experience at BM is poor” is a hugely sweeping statement by Yarblockos and in my opinion is way too strong (although he does acknowledge it will get better).

Looking at things objectively in comparison to Heritage Park:

The Tin Shed is significantly larger and affords everyone a very good view of the pitch and importantly, the entire near goal. At Heritage Park fans stood right up to the boundary fence in the Tin Shed, which meant that if there were any low efforts on goal I had to rely on the crowd reaction to know whether the ball had gone in the goal – I certainly didn’t see it!

Whilst the view in the stand at Blackwell Meadows is lower down, it should be remembered that the first five rows at the Arena was exactly the same and fans sat in those seats by choice. Indeed it is the same view that is provided in the first five rows at most modern stadiums up and down the country.

Yes, we could do with more seats at Blackwell Meadows but let’s not forget that only a minority of the temporary seats at Heritage Park were ever used. So maybe the suppressed demand for seats at Blackwell Meadows isn’t quite as large as some believe.

The hospitality area at Blackwell Meadows is far superior to what was available at Heritage Park and this is evidenced by the very high level of uptake. The excellent view from the balcony is also very popular.

The main bar at Blackwell Meadows has far more room than at Heritage Park and has a much larger serving area with more staff. Gone are the days of the crush and 2 X 2 queue at Heritage Park (or the lock-out at busier matches).

For those that want a more genteel experience (something that wasn’t an option at Heritage Park) there is the Quaker Club, which has proven to be very popular.

Yes, we don’t have the grass embankment, but the perimeter fence at Blackwell Meadows is significantly longer than it was at Heritage Park, so there is much more room to get a front row spot. This is fine for crowds up to 2,000, which is all we need at the mo (the maximum permitted at Heritage Park). Let’s not forget that at Heritage Park, a large section of the perimeter fence in front of the stand was out of bounds for standing – probably the equivalent obscured by the dug-outs at Blackwell Meadows. Let’s not forget that the dug-outs at Heritage Park also impaired the view but admittedly not to the same degree.

The pitch at Blackwell Meadows is causing some concern but there are plans to address it. Let’s not forget that we had 4 ½ seasons playing on a poor pitch at Heritage Park that was incredibly unreliable in wet conditions.

The floodlights at Blackwell Meadows are excellent in comparison to those at Heritage Park.

Now the big one – Blackwell Meadows is in Darlington, Heritage Park isn’t. We now have our next generation of fans being able to get the match independently without the hassle and cost of getting through to Bishop Auckland.

Yes, there are improvements required at Blackwell Meadows but Rome wasn’t built in a day. What has been provided at Blackwell Meadows so far is the best that could be afforded with the available funds that met the ground grading requirements. Let’s not forget that if we were still at Heritage Park we would be facing certain relegation from National North because Heritage Park only has a Ground Grading Category C.

I think it is a shame that so many seem to have got themselves into a mind-set that can only see the negatives when clearly some aspects are not quite so negative as they are sometimes perceived and other aspects are a definitive positive.

[JE93]

I'd like to think that I have a somewhat balanced take on all of this.

Love that the club is actually back playing in Darlington again after five years away (even as someone who was born in Stockton, raised in Eaglescliffe and now lives in Ingleby Barwick...), even better that it's no longer at the Arena. A football club should play in it's home town.

Whilst we weren't able to have our own place, HP was the perfect solution. The ground was good enough for what we needed, the match day experience was more than pleasant and (as someone else points out above) we saw four-and-a-bit seasons of superb football there. Some of the best times I've had following the club these last 27/28 years. I'll always look back on the HP years with fondness and rightly so.

As a lot of other folk clearly did, I really struggled with BM early on. I'm a man of routine (it took us 2/3 games to get into a match day routine that now 'works'...) and it wasn't until we made a corner spot in the Tin Shed our own at match #3 that I could really see the game properly. Being brutal, the standing options outside of the TS aren't great and I know that all of the seating is pretty much taken before you even step into the ground. Clearly this will be on an agenda somewhere, I would imagine.

The pitch is also clearly a problem, but then that was pretty much what I expected when I first heard that we were going to be sharing with a rugby club.

Things like the bar, the catering, etc, have definitely improved since Boxing Day - as I say, I've now developed a routine at the games where I know where I'm standing, I can see the game, I can get a programme, I can buy a reasonably priced tea, I can 'use the facilities' quickly enough and so on. All you need out with of what the team do.

Playing DA, I think most of what Richard Cook said about BM in Saturday's programme is right. Work is still needed on the pitch (it is pretty grim), the relationship with the RC, car parking and some aspects of the match day experience (especially if a big crowd game rolls round...), but on the whole there has been a positive shift since the first game or two and definite improvements.

All that said, something just hasn't quite *clicked* at BM yet - for the fans or for the players, I'm sensing. The move took place during an iffy bit of form and I don't think it helped on the pitch. Sometimes the ground seems quiet and both the fans and the players seem to be waiting for the other to spark something. Sometimes the noise at HP was pretty impressive and I genuinely believe we spurred the team on to some remarkable results over those 4-5 years. I also note some recent minor Twitter spats between fans, writers and players that won't be helping.

Perhaps the club needs a summer and then a full season at BM? It's still very early days and we shouldn't underestimate the upheaval of the last few months. Moving grounds, even at our level, isn't easy and can take time to adjust to.

We all need to give this some time and keep things in perspective a little.

Beatroute66 = the voice of reason (again).

I agree with pretty much all of that, BM doesn't yet feel like home yet but I so much want it to. I can't wait for the day I decide to get membership of the Rugby Club and feel at home going down to watch both sports. I also look forward to the day we develop a relationship when we start to have joint social events and fundraisers; both clubs will benefit from them so the sooner we get to that point the better.

I'm aware of some of the initial barriers to this partnership and also some of hurdles we've faced since we started playing there but it's good to see them gradually being overcome but as stated above, this will take some time.

Unfortunately I'm not very good at keeping things in perspective like Beatty asked for (but I promise I'll try).

Fantastic post, think this is exactly it. We never had any trouble at Bishop because 1). FA rules meant we predominantly had our own way when it came to football. 2). our landlords were never present on our match days because when we were there they were not. This just isn't the case anymore.

I think the best way to break down some of the barriers is for fans of DFC and Members of DRFC to collaborate on fundraising events with the funds to be split across pre-agreed investment areas. It would be great to see it's a knockout style competitions, race nights, pub quiz nights etc between DFC, DRFC, DFC fans and DRFC members. Get fans and members mixing and make it known that the future of both clubs is supported by the other.

[al_quaker]

Whilst the view in the stand at Blackwell Meadows is lower down, it should be remembered that the first five rows at the Arena was exactly the same and fans sat in those seats by choice. Indeed it is the same view that is provided in the first five rows at most modern stadiums up and down the country.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have a seating ST), but I'm not sure it is the same view provided by the first five rows in most modern stadiums - we have people stood to the right hand side of the stand, who I believe block some of the view of the pitch down that side if you're on the first few rows. This situation doesn't happen at a lot of stadiums.

If I am correct then those seats(if they are to be the long term seating solution) need to either be raised up, or much more of that side needs to be a no standing zone to make the seats fit for purpose. Obviously neither of those is feasible at the moment, and it'll have to do for now.

[Robbie Painter]

Whilst the view in the stand at Blackwell Meadows is lower down, it should be remembered that the first five rows at the Arena was exactly the same and fans sat in those seats by choice. Indeed it is the same view that is provided in the first five rows at most modern stadiums up and down the country.

Please correct me if I'm wrong (I don't have a seating ST), but I'm not sure it is the same view provided by the first five rows in most modern stadiums - we have people stood to the right hand side of the stand, who I believe block some of the view of the pitch down that side if you're on the first few rows. This situation doesn't happen at a lot of stadiums.

If I am correct then those seats(if they are to be the long term seating solution) need to either be raised up, or much more of that side needs to be a no standing zone to make the seats fit for purpose. Obviously neither of those is feasible at the moment, and it'll have to do for now.

I'm in row C in the block of seats nearest the tinshed. I can't see the right wing area attacking towards the tinshed. The view from the stand at HP was much better but also many of those in the seats (not myself) are older & less mobile. At HP the main stand was nearer the car park, there were toilet facilities & the bar with hot drinks & food right by the seats.

The seated stand is very basic but it wouldn't put me off going as a dedicated fan but I can see why others wouldn't bother. However improvements all cost money, which we don't have & in some cases (bar facilities etc) can't practically be resolved at all.

[princes town]

I think “The matchday experience at BM is poor” is a hugely sweeping statement by Yarblockos and in my opinion is way too strong (although he does acknowledge it will get better).

Looking at things objectively in comparison to Heritage Park:

The Tin Shed is significantly larger and affords everyone a very good view of the pitch and importantly, the entire near goal. At Heritage Park fans stood right up to the boundary fence in the Tin Shed, which meant that if there were any low efforts on goal I had to rely on the crowd reaction to know whether the ball had gone in the goal – I certainly didn’t see it!

Whilst the view in the stand at Blackwell Meadows is lower down, it should be remembered that the first five rows at the Arena was exactly the same and fans sat in those seats by choice. Indeed it is the same view that is provided in the first five rows at most modern stadiums up and down the country.

Yes, we could do with more seats at Blackwell Meadows but let’s not forget that only a minority of the temporary seats at Heritage Park were ever used. So maybe the suppressed demand for seats at Blackwell Meadows isn’t quite as large as some believe.

The hospitality area at Blackwell Meadows is far superior to what was available at Heritage Park and this is evidenced by the very high level of uptake. The excellent view from the balcony is also very popular.

The main bar at Blackwell Meadows has far more room than at Heritage Park and has a much larger serving area with more staff. Gone are the days of the crush and 2 X 2 queue at Heritage Park (or the lock-out at busier matches).

For those that want a more genteel experience (something that wasn’t an option at Heritage Park) there is the Quaker Club, which has proven to be very popular.

Yes, we don’t have the grass embankment, but the perimeter fence at Blackwell Meadows is significantly longer than it was at Heritage Park, so there is much more room to get a front row spot. This is fine for crowds up to 2,000, which is all we need at the mo (the maximum permitted at Heritage Park). Let’s not forget that at Heritage Park, a large section of the perimeter fence in front of the stand was out of bounds for standing – probably the equivalent obscured by the dug-outs at Blackwell Meadows. Let’s not forget that the dug-outs at Heritage Park also impaired the view but admittedly not to the same degree.

The pitch at Blackwell Meadows is causing some concern but there are plans to address it. Let’s not forget that we had 4 ½ seasons playing on a poor pitch at Heritage Park that was incredibly unreliable in wet conditions.

The floodlights at Blackwell Meadows are excellent in comparison to those at Heritage Park.

Now the big one – Blackwell Meadows is in Darlington, Heritage Park isn’t. We now have our next generation of fans being able to get the match independently without the hassle and cost of getting through to Bishop Auckland.

Yes, there are improvements required at Blackwell Meadows but Rome wasn’t built in a day. What has been provided at Blackwell Meadows so far is the best that could be afforded with the available funds that met the ground grading requirements. Let’s not forget that if we were still at Heritage Park we would be facing certain relegation from National North because Heritage Park only has a Ground Grading Category C.

I think it is a shame that so many seem to have got themselves into a mind-set that can only see the negatives when clearly some aspects are not quite so negative as they are sometimes perceived and other aspects are a definitive positive.

Some excellent points. I do think there are more young people attending although obviously have no scientific evidence to prove this. I don't actually think there is another option other than BM at the moment. I also don't think the rugby relations are quite as bad as some suggest and if there are teething troubles we should probably expect it with a new partnership. There are some very good people at the rugby club but it is by definition a delicate association.

My annoyance is largely internal about ground capacity. Some statements made after the Halifax game that everything was fantastic when for a large number of people it wasn't because of restricted viewing. Craig Stoddart rightly alluded to this in the article and I suspect the positive statements largely reflected a balcony or tin shed view. I remain convinced that the ground cannot service any gate over around 2200-2300. Mindsets can take many forms - 'glass half full' overly optimistic mindsets and glass half empty pessimistic mind-sets. This artificial capacity may come to a head if we do reach the play offs where we may encounter another poor experience on different fronts. I do accept that the BM project had to be put on full speed and corners had to be cut but our expectations of service should reflect this. I'd prefer a lower gate with an extra couple of quid on the price. The clubhouse side for a start is simply not operable because of those damn dug outs.

[DarloDave40]

Lots of positives above and although all agree there is still work to be done we are definitely moving in the right direction. Personally I think if we went up this season it could cause greater problems perhaps let's have a year to sort everything out.

[quaker4life]

Having read through the thread there are some points made I would like to elaborate on and apologies in advance for not crediting said posters personally but at an impressive 7 pages it is far too long to remember everything and everyone!

First of all on the issue of signage I do understand DRFC's stance, although it comes at great annoyance for us, they understandably don't want to be overshadowed by DFC's presence there and I think we would feel strongly about this also if roles were reversed.

The reason's why they'd object to a large sign saying "Welcome to Darlington F.C" or something to that effect across one of the main access points to the ground are obvious.

As an example, if I recall rightly, Newcastle Falcons had expressed an interest in buying the Arena during the R** S**** era. And let's say, hypothetically, they had bought it and entered a ground share with us and then proceeded to install a large sign saying "Welcome to Newcastle Falcons proud members of the Aviva Premiership" on the front I can imagine a few of us would take exception to it and rightly so.

I'm happy to compromise with DRFC on this issue and for me a new sign in place of the existing one at the entrance to the complex saying something along the lines of "Welcome to Blackwell Meadows home of Darlington Rugby Football Club & Darlington Football Club" would suffice. It is clear their members were concerned and validly so about us becoming a dominant presence there and as per the above example we wouldn't want that either.

Also I was disturbed by some suggestions of our supporters becoming members of the Rugby Club in an attempt to sabotage things in favour of the Football Club, I can only hope this was said in jest and not meant seriously as any attempt to do this would be totally nonsensical as well as potentially incredibly damaging.

It would only serve to create friction and further validate those at DRFC who opposed the ground share in the first place.

Now onto the ground itself, I deliberately missed the Halifax game on boxing day to let the bandwagon jumpers and one season wonders get out of the way so my first game there was the following home game against Nuneaton. By this point all the hype had died down and there was a considerably smaller crowd and my first impressions of the ground, to be brutally honest, it's naff.

I was told by a friend after the Halifax game, that aside from the Tin Shed, the ground had very little going for it and on seeing it for the first time I agreed. It was quickly apparent it did not meet the grading criteria for the National League and I'll admit to questioning whether it even met the grading criteria for the National League North ( I still have reservations about that even now).

However what we do have, although not much and in some ways not ideal, is a ground in the town which was an absolute must. People seem to have very, very short memories DRFC accomadated us brilliantly by not using the pitch until after we moved in and moving their first team home games onto Monday nights to avoid clashing with our Saturday games.

I'm highly confident (with respect) that this would not have happened with DMP at the Arena, if we both had a home game on the same day it would be us playing on the Monday night's and them on the Saturday.

Also we would be paying substantially higher rent, our being there would benefit them more than it would us, so personally I'm thankful for what we have with DRFC albeit far from perfect it is something that benefits both club's and there is something there that can be built on for the better interests of both clubs, not just one.

In the end what we left behind at the Arena was a lost cause, this is one worth fighting for.

And as for the HP v BM argument, it's a redundant one and it will always be a matter of opinion personally I'm amongst those who found the "matchday experience" at HP better than that at BM, I enjoyed the March Hare and the short walk to the ground and in general I do think HP is a better ground. However we couldn't stay there forever and I think there is a degree sentimental attachment to it which is understandable I'll never forget those games against Team North in the NL and with Bamber Bridge in the EvoStik North play off final topped only for me personally by "that" Play Off Semi-Final second leg with the chimp chokers at Feethams in 2000.

I think some of our fans got too comfortable there so the move to BM has come as a bit of an upheaval to them but it was necessary. It might take some adjusting to for some of us and the reality is we are where we are there is still a great deal of work to do, I said back in 2012 the road back would be a long one and so it's proving the success we've had over the enjoyed 5 years has come at a cost and has been taken for granted.

Remember where we started in the summer of 2012 and look where we are now and then ask yourself where would you rather be?

[al_quaker]

People seem to have very, very short memories DRFC accomadated us brilliantly by not using the pitch until after we moved in and moving their first team home games onto Monday nights to avoid clashing with our Saturday games.

I'm highly confident (with respect) that this would not have happened with DMP at the Arena, if we both had a home game on the same day it would be us playing on the Monday night's and them on the Saturday.

Is it not part of FA rules for groundshares that football takes precedence over other sports?

[loan_star]

People seem to have very, very short memories DRFC accomadated us brilliantly by not using the pitch until after we moved in and moving their first team home games onto Monday nights to avoid clashing with our Saturday games.

I'm highly confident (with respect) that this would not have happened with DMP at the Arena, if we both had a home game on the same day it would be us playing on the Monday night's and them on the Saturday.

Is it not part of FA rules for groundshares that football takes precedence over other sports?

I believe this is the case. One problem with a share with Mowden would be that their league rules say the same, they have to have priority on fixtures.