Issues at the back

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Quaker0006
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Issues at the back

Post by Quaker0006 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:05 pm

Quite suprised in all honesty with the reaction by some to the new signings. Asked by a mate recently, where would i strengthen i said probably like to have a goalkeeper and striker.

Cant deny defensive record isnt great but we play with two out and out wingers and a ball playing midfield in Turnbull. Its the strongest weve been in that area and from what ive seen playing a much higher line. Gillies and Turnbull are a real class above but maybe we suffer slightly in shape with having them.

Now ive heard different opinions over some players in other positions but cant recall once an individual in defence being named as needing to be replaced. Ive not come away from any games thinking the defence we shocking.

Marrs - player of the season for me so far. Mr consistent.
Brown - mixed started to the season but doing ok. comitted to the end
Burgess - wasnt a fan when he first came in but very solid now
Galbraith - has really improved defensively and set pieces are vital

So who requires being replaced or is it more a collective issue?

Undercovered
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Undercovered » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:07 pm

An experienced ex-league / conference centre back who can read the game and organise the back 4 rather than re-acting with last ditch defending
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princes town
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by princes town » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:13 pm

My assessment is for most games we have defended reasonably well. The goals have largely arisen from lapses in concentration which is frustrating. Jameson hardly touched the ball against Nuneaton other than to pick the ball out if the net. Fylde Telford Halifax similar story of reasonable safety but then individual mistakes. More a concentration issue than talent issue.

Darlofan97
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:36 pm

Unfortunately some would rather cling-on to the idea that we don't need another centre forward because we score a lot anyway. Failing to realise that - apart from Beck - our forwards don't score that many.

I am sure that if Gray could identify a defender to improve us then he would bring him in, but unfortunately it may be a case of there not being players available that are actually better than what we have.

It's very difficult at this time of year as teams would rather loan players to FT clubs (for training & wages), of which there are a few at this level.

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by m62exile » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:38 pm

I'm touched and baffled in equal measure by the unparalleled support Jameson has been getting. I like him too, we've been through a lot together but he's been in a terrible run of form.
I reckon our back four will be having the first nights decent sleep all season tonight.
Hopefully Pete can take some time out and get his head together.

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D_F_C
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by D_F_C » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:52 pm

m62exile wrote:I'm touched and baffled in equal measure by the unparalleled support Jameson has been getting. I like him too, we've been through a lot together but he's been in a terrible run of form.
I reckon our back four will be having the first nights decent sleep all season tonight.
Hopefully Pete can take some time out and get his head together.
I hope Pete doesn't read this. Agree with the majority of posters here. Individual mistakes rather than quality

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Undercovered » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:52 pm

The last replacement certainly wasn't an upgrade
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m62exile
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by m62exile » Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:05 pm

D_F_C wrote:
m62exile wrote:I'm touched and baffled in equal measure by the unparalleled support Jameson has been getting. I like him too, we've been through a lot together but he's been in a terrible run of form.
I reckon our back four will be having the first nights decent sleep all season tonight.
Hopefully Pete can take some time out and get his head together.
I hope Pete doesn't read this. Agree with the majority of posters here. Individual mistakes rather than quality
I never said he was a bad keeper, I said he was in a terrible run of form. Are you disagreeing with that?

Darlogramps
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:05 am

m62exile wrote:I'm touched and baffled in equal measure by the unparalleled support Jameson has been getting. I like him too, we've been through a lot together but he's been in a terrible run of form.
I reckon our back four will be having the first nights decent sleep all season tonight.
Hopefully Pete can take some time out and get his head together.
This is a really bizarre post, littered with inaccuracies and generalisations.

Firstly, why are you baffled that a large number of fans have stood by Jameson and have belief in him that he can improve? Do you really find the idea of supporters supporting players to be baffling?

The idea that Jameson is getting "unparalleled" support is nonsense. He's received plenty of criticism, albeit not much of it has been constructive.

Saying "I reckon our back four will be having the first nights decent sleep all season tonight," is uncalled for. Particularly when it is uncertain that Wilczynski will do any better. What if he starts and has a complete nightmare

The idea that Jameson's problems have been the sole cause of our defensive frailties is indeed untrue.

Gillies and Thompson aren't particularly defensive-minded, so there's less cover from midfield. Collectively there's been an issue from set pieces. And more generally, going forward the oppositions are much better than we've faced in previous seasons.
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:30 am

Darlofan97 wrote:Unfortunately some would rather cling-on to the idea that we don't need another centre forward because we score a lot anyway. Failing to realise that - apart from Beck - our forwards don't score that many.
You were quite sensible in articulating your point before. But the above post makes it sound as if you think you know better than everyone else. Bit disappointing someone would take that attitude.

As a team, we're one of the leading scorers in England, but have kept one clean sheet all season.

So it's not unreasonable to ask why Gray has signed a striker, rather than looking to improve the defence.

Is signing a young striker, not really tested at this level, really what we need at this time? It's not an unfair question to ask.
Last edited by Darlogramps on Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by m62exile » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:30 am

Darlogramps wrote:
m62exile wrote:I'm touched and baffled in equal measure by the unparalleled support Jameson has been getting. I like him too, we've been through a lot together but he's been in a terrible run of form.
I reckon our back four will be having the first nights decent sleep all season tonight.
Hopefully Pete can take some time out and get his head together.
This is a really bizarre post, littered with inaccuracies and generalisations.

Firstly, why are you baffled that a large number of fans have stood by Jameson and have belief in him that he can improve? Do you really find the idea of supporters supporting players to be baffling?

The idea that Jameson is getting "unparalleled" support is nonsense. He's received plenty of criticism, albeit not much of it has been constructive.

Saying "I reckon our back four will be having the first nights decent sleep all season tonight," is uncalled for. Particularly when it is uncertain that Wilczynski will do any better. What if he starts and has a complete nightmare

The idea that Jameson's problems have been the sole cause of our defensive frailties is indeed untrue.

Gillies and Thompson aren't particularly defensive-minded, so there's less cover from midfield. Collectively there's been an issue from set pieces. And more generally, going forward the oppositions are much better than we've faced in previous seasons.
Would you have looked to sign another keeper Gramps?

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:39 am

I wouldn't have, because I think improving our defensive play in the areas I outlined above would have gone a long way to improving our clean sheet record.

I also don't believe Jameson is a bad keeper, and given that promotion isn't essential this season, I'd have persevered with him. Going from Northern League to National League North in just a few years was always going to be a big step up.

But Gray has signed a new keeper and I think everyone would hope it works out for the best.

I can't pass judgement on Wilczynski until we've seen him play a few games. Hopefully he'll have solid debut (I'm assuming he'll start today) but even if he makes a mistake or two, people shouldn't get on his back.
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by lo36789 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:59 am

I don't understand why people think a Northern League goalkeeper is the answer to their problems with a goalkeeper who is proven about a NL standard. I have no idea how good the new guy is - are we even sure he will play today?

If he does play I am expecting those who have been calling for Jameson to go will class every save he makes as world class and every mistake to be washed over as somebody else's fault or an understandable mistake. Player bias is a strange thing.

I can see a solid argument about the lack of cover for our full backs, does that explain why a significant number of our goals conceded have come from set plays. Are we giving away a disproportionate number of set plays because defensively we're stretched or are we just disproportionately defending them badly because defensively we're not organised enough.

I have thought when I have watched that Brown and Burgess have looked more stretched than other seasons. Is it because it is a step up for them or because the lack of cover at full back is stretching the full backs and then stretching them - I don't know.

Brown is last ditch at the best of times but has felt more last ditch this season than any other. I have been shot down before for this opinion because suggestion from others that his heart on the line methods demonstrate a leaders performance. Burgess for me just has looked noticeable not as mobile as his opponents.

This is a level above what these lads have played before. Before anyone says Brown played for Blyth at this level - he did - but I thought they were a bottom half team rather than play off candidates.
Last edited by lo36789 on Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:02 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:Unfortunately some would rather cling-on to the idea that we don't need another centre forward because we score a lot anyway. Failing to realise that - apart from Beck - our forwards don't score that many.
You were quite sensible in articulating your point before. But the above post makes it sound as if you think you know better than everyone else. Bit disappointing someone would take that attitude.
Not at all.

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:06 am

I do not see why Jameson needs dropping today after last weeks performance - and also couple that with the fact that Wilczynski will have only had a handful of training sessions with us.

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by darlo reborn » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:12 am

Expect both new signings to be on bench today as not much training time with players but then Gray always surprises us

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by MikeinBlack2 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:54 am

The new keeper is most likely the second choice shot stopper, to give Jameson some competition and support on the bench. Don't forget that Bell was our number one before Jameson made it his own, so one for the future maybe?
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Quakerz » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:27 am

Darlogramps wrote:
So it's not unreasonable to ask why Gray has signed a striker, rather than looking to improve the defence.
Well considering that Cartman doesn't know where the net is, and we have no other partners for Beck, then I'd say a striker is a priority.

I get why people would want to strengthen the defence. But who do we replace?
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by dickdarlington » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:23 pm

In my opinion, Our defence hasn't been the same since Alan White moved on. Not necessarily his presence on the pitch, but his involvement behind the scenes. The players haven't changed, so there have to other reasons.

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:29 pm

dickdarlington wrote:In my opinion, Our defence hasn't been the same since Alan White moved on. Not necessarily his presence on the pitch, but his involvement behind the scenes. The players haven't changed, so there have to other reasons.
Like a much tougher league and Gillies being added to the team who doesn't defend quite as much as Mitchell probably would.

To add to that Hunters pace bailed the CB's out last season, Marrs I think is a better Football but doesn't have the pace of Hunter.

All in all we are playing better teams and we aren't setup to defend and win 1-0 often as per Chorley, who are doing good great but some of their fans say it's boring.

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Undercovered » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:35 pm

dickdarlington wrote:In my opinion, Our defence hasn't been the same since Alan White moved on. Not necessarily his presence on the pitch, but his involvement behind the scenes. The players haven't changed, so there have to other reasons.
Quite simply they're playing against better players. There are so many ex league forwards in this league who are a cut above who they've faced so far.

I think lo hits the nail on the head re: the last ditch defending. This is due to the back 4 often being caught out of position which is a combination of us not being as solid throughout the team as we can be and better opponents stretching them. Whilst the commitment for the cause by Brown and Burgess can never be questioned I just feel that if one of them played alongside someone who was a bit more composed and more of an organiser then we'd be better off. As much as it pains me to say it, Big Ex showed his class last week by never looking troubled yet never having to run around. He read the game perfectly and had Beck in his pocket without having to resort to pushing and shoving like many defenders have previously simply because in his head he was always one step ahead.
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:39 pm

Undercovered wrote:As much as it pains me to say it, Big Ex showed his class last week by never looking troubled yet never having to run around. He read the game perfectly and had Beck in his pocket without having to resort to pushing and shoving like many defenders have previously simply because in his head he was always one step ahead.
It pains me to have to agree with you.
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by bga » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:05 pm

Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
So it's not unreasonable to ask why Gray has signed a striker, rather than looking to improve the defence.
Well considering that Cartman doesn't know where the net is, and we have no other partners for Beck, then I'd say a striker is a priority.

I get why people would want to strengthen the defence. But who do we replace?
What baffles me is replacing a striker who has scored 3 times as many league goals as Carts this season with an untried 18 year old? Guess only MG and Hardy know why he left, he wont come back they never do!

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:15 pm

If I was going to be critical of Hardy it would be that he doesn't put the effort in that Cartman does, which Gray seems to like. Hardy seems to be more about him scoring goals than tracking back and defending from the front, we also seem to lack pace up front which would put the opposition on the back foot.

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Quakerz » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:42 pm

dickdarlington wrote:In my opinion, Our defence hasn't been the same since Alan White moved on. Not necessarily his presence on the pitch, but his involvement behind the scenes. The players haven't changed, so there have to other reasons.
Like us playing 2 leagues higher for example...
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Darlogramps » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:42 pm

Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
So it's not unreasonable to ask why Gray has signed a striker, rather than looking to improve the defence.
Well considering that Cartman doesn't know where the net is
You were saying.....
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:40 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
So it's not unreasonable to ask why Gray has signed a striker, rather than looking to improve the defence.
Well considering that Cartman doesn't know where the net is
You were saying.....
Touche. Goal and an assist. Gray will claim it was the kick up the backside he needed, despite his replacement looking totally out of his depth.

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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Quakerz » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:57 am

Darlogramps wrote:
Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
So it's not unreasonable to ask why Gray has signed a striker, rather than looking to improve the defence.
Well considering that Cartman doesn't know where the net is
You were saying.....
What I said was "Cartman doesn't know where the net is". At the point I said it he hadn't looked like scoring for ages.

How many goals has he scored this season?

Are you claiming that one swallow makes a summer, because you know that it doesn't.

However, hopefully he can kick on from yesterday and re-discover where the net is for the rest of the season.

But my point was that I could see why Gray was signing a striker.
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by Darlogramps » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:59 pm

Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
So it's not unreasonable to ask why Gray has signed a striker, rather than looking to improve the defence.
Well considering that Cartman doesn't know where the net is
You were saying.....
What I said was "Cartman doesn't know where the net is". At the point I said it he hadn't looked like scoring for ages.

How many goals has he scored this season?

Are you claiming that one swallow makes a summer, because you know that it doesn't.
Q - I think your sense of humour may have failed you on this one.

I wasn't making a point either way. Merely pointing out that hours after your post Cartman scored one and set up another.
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Re: Issues at the back

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:56 pm

Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
Quakerz wrote:
Darlogramps wrote:
So it's not unreasonable to ask why Gray has signed a striker, rather than looking to improve the defence.
Well considering that Cartman doesn't know where the net is
You were saying.....
But my point was that I could see why Gray was signing a striker.
Could you see why he would sign a kid with little to no experience, or where you expecting somebody proven?

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