Kids In Tin Shed

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Yarblockos
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Yarblockos » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:26 pm

LoidLucan wrote:Of the other comparable teams in this league in terms of fan base - like Stockport, Halifax, Kidderminster or FCUM - none would allow a pocket of away fans into their popular end behind a goal with or without a band of stewards/security guards to protect them. Don't think they would ever even consider doing it.
They have segregated areas for away fans. We don't.

Beano
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Beano » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:28 pm

Yarblockos wrote:
LoidLucan wrote:Of the other comparable teams in this league in terms of fan base - like Stockport, Halifax, Kidderminster or FCUM - none would allow a pocket of away fans into their popular end behind a goal with or without a band of stewards/security guards to protect them. Don't think they would ever even consider doing it.
They have segregated areas for away fans. We don't.
Correct, Yarblockos. Areas which cost £££.

SwansQuaker83
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:33 pm

They dont need to be segregated just don't allow them into the main home end...

LoidLucan
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:23 pm

The issue is clearly one which will need to be looked at. In a crowd of 2300 its not an ideal situation to have a pocket of away fans in the main popular home end. Better to avoid the potential for problems if at all possible. If you asked for the polices opinion on allowing away fans in that section when there is such a big crowd i think we all know what they would say.

Beano
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Beano » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:42 pm

SwansQuaker83 wrote:They dont need to be segregated just don't allow them into the main home end...
Which means some form of segregation to prevent it. An A4 sign wouldn't cut it.

Or, everyone behaves like adult humans, and there is no need for it.

LoidLucan
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:56 pm

In an ideal world i should be able to march into the stockport end in our upcoming match singing darlo songs and unfurling a darlo flag but we all know what the reality is.

Beano
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Beano » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:20 pm

LoidLucan wrote:In an ideal world i should be able to march into the stockport end in our upcoming match singing darlo songs and unfurling a darlo flag but we all know what the reality is.
Why would you want to do that?

LoidLucan
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by LoidLucan » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:12 pm

The point is lots of the bigger clubs at this level dont allow the possibility of what happened on saturday to arise. While we dont have the readily permanently segregated areas that some other clubs have it is an issue that needs to be looked at and some sort of contingency put in place.

SwansQuaker83
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:13 pm

Beano wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:They dont need to be segregated just don't allow them into the main home end...
Which means some form of segregation to prevent it. An A4 sign wouldn't cut it.

Or, everyone behaves like adult humans, and there is no need for it.
We already do, away fans cant just go and sit in the stand for a start...

They can be informed in advance when their club releases ticket info, they can be told going thru the away turnstiles, if wearing colours they can be turned away by stewards... It's easy to police... As for behaving, that wont happen, there will always be those who antagonise and those who react...

princes town
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by princes town » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:53 pm

Even the remotest risk that someone will get slapped for bringing a flag means we must have segregation. In my opinion a shame but I'm afraid I can't ignore things like Saturday. Same thing happened with Curzon a couple of years back when we lost.

lo36789
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by lo36789 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:27 pm

But that remote risk has been there for the past 4 years?

princes town
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by princes town » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:55 pm

lo36789 wrote:But that remote risk has been there for the past 4 years?
yes. we should have had segregation from the start. makes life easier for the stewards as well. never had a problem at Halifax game or the big play off games. sign of the times and moving back to darlo brings higher potential with unfamiliar faces.

hullablue
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by hullablue » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:31 am

SwansQuaker83 wrote:... but their fans went in there with the intention of winding up our fans...
That is totally and utterly not true.
Boro fans went there because they wantes to stand behind the goal we were attacking and as the ground is not segregated were able to do that.
As an away fan, the experience from half time onwards was not very nice, from #flaggate to being threatened and abused as home fans left and then having to wait around at the end while stewards tried to move a gang of teenagers away from the Boro supporters coach.
To my eyes, and maybe because I know them all, there were no Boro fans that looked even remotely up for trouble, but that didn't stop many, and not all kids either, fans being aggressive towards them after the equaliser and then our winner.
Really not something that should happen at a non league match, and the apologists do your club no favours.
Trust me, if we had fans out for some trouble, I would be calling them out too, but I honestly think most of our support was over 40 and lots over 60.
I hope you have a great season and make your new ground a real home. With segregation it could create the right sort of intimidating atmosphere,rather than the nasty one I experienced.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:12 am

On my many away trips with Darlo I've loved the fact that we can wander around the ground, put the flag up and chat with the locals usually without any hassle and certainly never felt intimidated. On the other hand when were segregated like at FCUM and Altrincham the support for the team is better with everyone in the same place, unlike at Marine when we were "all" spread out. It's a shame that this has happened and although I wasn't there, if we're paying for security why weren't they sorting it? Perhaps the tinshed should be home fans only?

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feethams
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by feethams » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:40 am

hullablue wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:... but their fans went in there with the intention of winding up our fans...
That is totally and utterly not true.
Boro fans went there because they wantes to stand behind the goal we were attacking and as the ground is not segregated were able to do that.
As an away fan, the experience from half time onwards was not very nice, from #flaggate to being threatened and abused as home fans left and then having to wait around at the end while stewards tried to move a gang of teenagers away from the Boro supporters coach.
To my eyes, and maybe because I know them all, there were no Boro fans that looked even remotely up for trouble, but that didn't stop many, and not all kids either, fans being aggressive towards them after the equaliser and then our winner.
Really not something that should happen at a non league match, and the apologists do your club no favours.
Trust me, if we had fans out for some trouble, I would be calling them out too, but I honestly think most of our support was over 40 and lots over 60.
I hope you have a great season and make your new ground a real home. With segregation it could create the right sort of intimidating atmosphere,rather than the nasty one I experienced.
Regardless of segregation I don't think you can expect to go stand behind the goal of the home teams main terrace and put up flags when it was still full. It is obvious that the majority of our home fans were remaining in that stand for the 2nd half.

After so long at the Arena / Bishop - the fans have a right to be proud of the tin shed and make it their own territory.

lo36789
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:58 am

our fans definitely put flags up at Marine from what I remember.

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don'tbuythesun
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by don'tbuythesun » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:06 am

Lo, I know, I was one of them, that was the point I was making but I wouldn't if there was a home end full of home fans!

hullablue
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by hullablue » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:11 am

feethams wrote:
hullablue wrote:
SwansQuaker83 wrote:... but their fans went in there with the intention of winding up our fans...
That is totally and utterly not true.
Boro fans went there because they wantes to stand behind the goal we were attacking and as the ground is not segregated were able to do that.
As an away fan, the experience from half time onwards was not very nice, from #flaggate to being threatened and abused as home fans left and then having to wait around at the end while stewards tried to move a gang of teenagers away from the Boro supporters coach.
To my eyes, and maybe because I know them all, there were no Boro fans that looked even remotely up for trouble, but that didn't stop many, and not all kids either, fans being aggressive towards them after the equaliser and then our winner.
Really not something that should happen at a non league match, and the apologists do your club no favours.
Trust me, if we had fans out for some trouble, I would be calling them out too, but I honestly think most of our support was over 40 and lots over 60.
I hope you have a great season and make your new ground a real home. With segregation it could create the right sort of intimidating atmosphere,rather than the nasty one I experienced.
Regardless of segregation I don't think you can expect to go stand behind the goal of the home teams main terrace and put up flags when it was still full. It is obvious that the majority of our home fans were remaining in that stand for the 2nd half.

After so long at the Arena / Bishop - the fans have a right to be proud of the tin shed and make it their own territory.
Nuneaton fans have put flags up athe likes of Fcum without any problem, in very full main ends. It seems to be a Darlington problem, blaming Nuneaton fans is not the answer
This is not a war situation where the flying of a flag signifies taken territory, it is just support for another team. If some of your fans cannot see fans supporting other teams and not resort to threats or violence, maybe watching football is not the pass time for them.

Undercovered
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Undercovered » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:21 am

The difference with Darlington is that being an ex-league club many fans are used to segregation at every game. Until 2012 none of our fans had likely attended an unsegregated game unlike many clubs at this level who have been brought up with it. It was certainly strange for me during the first few games at Bishop Auckland, especially when we played against Bishop. There are potentially a lot of supporters in that end who might not have been to watch us play out of town and if they had they may have only attended the bigger, segregated games so it's totally new for them.

It's not an excuse but a reason in that it takes longer than one game to change a lifetimes mindset.
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HarryCharltonsCat
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:44 am

Stood quite close to Nuneaton fans. None of them where what you would call "boys". To say they came into Tin Shed to provoke home fans is frankly laughable, and a weak attempt at justifying pathetic behaviour.Unfortunately some of our more Neanderthal fans can't take not winning. Frankly, the chavs should have been thrown out as soon as they started running along the front giving it large, especially the lead one. Only brave enough to do it because they recognised the Nuneaton fans weren't interested. Two coppers walked along the front of the tin shed around halftime. Where did they disappear to?

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:37 am

I've been going to football matches for over 40 years and segregation of some sort is the normal and sensible thing to do. Did anyone bat an eyelid when we were put in our own special stand, away at Halifax?? I doubt it - because segregation used fairly and properly helps to stop potential problems developing. Which is good for everyone.

We are no longer kicking around the lower reaches of non league and should act accordingly, so in my view - for most games, making the Tinshed home fans only would be enough, for the bigger games more would be needed.
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lo36789
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by lo36789 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:48 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:We are no longer kicking around the lower reaches of non league and should act accordingly, so in my view - for most games, making the Tinshed home fans only would be enough, for the bigger games more would be needed.
Segregation requires a dedicated entrance and barriers. It is not enough to have an unwritten rule/sign which says "not welcome here" they used to do that in the US a number of years ago.

You could have a "home fans only" entrance. Put a barrier in place at the end of the tin shed so you basically split the ground in half. The other entrance is for 'all'. The obvious and immediate impact would be that any fans who like to change ends at half time can't anymore. There will also be an immediate impact on facilities at the 'tin shed half' (would probably extend to the tunnel) would have two toilets the other half would have one.

Does seem a shame as based on footage the number of fans who like to do that far outweighs the volume who cause problems. It also doesn't fix anything it is basically papering over the cracks. That element are still there and all they have to do is go in through the other entrance at the next game.

When we won the play-off final against Bamber Bridge we had a number of fans who whilst people were celebrating around the stand decided that instead they would turn around and deliberately start attempting to fight the Bamber Bridge spectators who had stayed behind to watch.

There was segregation that day, and we won. Still doesn't stop the knuckle-draggers.

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Robbie Painter
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Robbie Painter » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:07 pm

I find it defeatist and depressing that we should just accept a culture of violence & abuse towards opposition fans in an unsegregated ground. After initially finding it a bit of a culture shock I've enjoyed the last few seasons of unsegregated grounds and being able to move around.

We, the majority, should seek to change this culture & behaviour, not just shrug our shoulders & accept it. If it doesn't change then the majority of fans will lose out if we have to segregate all matches. We won't be able to change ends, worse viewing positions, number of toilet facilities will be reduced, it'll take longer to get into & out of the ground.

A proactive attitude from stewards, the sensible majority & from the club perhaps will work to stop incidents like last Saturday's. Personally I'd like to see individuals causing trouble to be ejected from the ground & banned from future matches.

BTW SwansQuaker83 - away fans can go & sit in the seated stand if seats are available. It's a bit embarrassing at the moment to be honest that we can't offer seats as standard to those away fans that need them, as they often do, as the stand is nominally sold out to season ticket holders, etc.

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theoriginalfatcat
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:13 pm

Good post Robbie. I like your sentiments - it would be great if we could make things work in the way you suggest, however I wonder if that's possible?
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Darlo_Pete
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by Darlo_Pete » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:29 pm

The Boro fans were blameless. They were entitled to go into the tinshed as there was no segregation in place on Saturday. Unfortunately a few idiots are responsible. Hopefully the club will know who these so called fans were and they should seek to get them banned from the ground.

TDS
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by TDS » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:37 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:The Boro fans were blameless. They were entitled to go into the tinshed as there was no segregation in place on Saturday. Unfortunately a few idiots are responsible. Hopefully the club will know who these so called fans were and they should seek to get them banned from the ground.
The Club and fans do know those responsible, I'm sure of that. Ultimately you can spot some of these "lads" a mile off. What worries me is the fact that going forward, every away game will be another reason to limit the experience for the genuine fans of DFC.

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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by hullablue » Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:39 pm

It was very sad that it was the Nuneaton fan with the flag (a man over 50 btw) that was threatened with being thrown out of the ground, not the ones who were acting aggressively. The stewards handled the situation very badly.

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feethams
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by feethams » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:59 pm

I know there was no segregation enforced, so they could stand anywhere, but in my opinion it was extremely naive of them to wander in to the middle of a packed tinshed and expect to put some flags up without someone saying something.

From where I was stood, the stewards did attempt to move them on, and few did move, but one guy was sticking around arguing his case which caused further aggravation.

EDIT: Just to add here - i'm not all about fighting and aggression between fans. I've enjoyed also moving free around this last few years, but I think common sense has also told me in unsegregated grounds where to / not to stand.

H1987
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by H1987 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:24 pm

That sucks you had that experience, and I don't have an immediately obvious answer.

I hope when we expand the seating we consider making a family area. That an segregated away fans seems to be the way to go long term.

UTQ.

hullablue
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Re: Kids In Tin Shed

Post by hullablue » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:37 pm

feethams wrote:I know there was no segregation enforced, so they could stand anywhere, but in my opinion it was extremely naive of them to wander in to the middle of a packed tinshed and expect to put some flags up without someone saying something.

From where I was stood, the stewards did attempt to move them on, and few did move, but one guy was sticking around arguing his case which caused further aggravation.

EDIT: Just to add here - i'm not all about fighting and aggression between fans. I've enjoyed also moving free around this last few years, but I think common sense has also told me in unsegregated grounds where to / not to stand.

I have stood, clapped, cheered, sang songs and hung flags on main terraces at many non league grounds up and down the country with no problems. It is a sad state of affairs that to do that at your ground causes problems but not at many others at this level and above.
It is Darlo fans who have a problem with flags that are in the wrong.

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