Constructive views on the Blackwell experience

[poppyfield]

Just a couple of points from me, first up, brilliant day, back in Darlo, capacity crowd, and 3 points.
The words used these days is 'match day experience' everybody will of course have there own, good, bad or somewhere in between.
For me the most important thing is to some how improve the match view like so many have said if you cant get by the fence and are stood 3 back its limited to say the least,there are some clever people on here so get your thinking caps on how we can improve that.
I do think first impressions are we have a ground, but no club house, catering, access to bar etc. needs sorting.
Big thanks to all the volunteers on day.

[quakersam]

Every extra was a tad expensive for me

£5 - Parking
£3 - Pie
£2 - Drink

I'm no pauper and I paid for all of the above, but I did regard as expensive.

How do those prices compare to HP though?

Parking was £3 in Car Park C before it was built on
Burgers were upwards of £3 from the Burger Van
Tea/Coffee? Never bought one but I'd expect roughly the same price.

I think the food and drink prices are probably roughly what you'd expect at this level of football

[feethams]

My thoughts on the ground:

Overall thought atmosphere was great, music/pa was great. Flood lights may be adequate at this level but did appear dark on the pitch!

1. You can probably get another 2 of the seated stands in on the far side making that all seated. Leaving a space for the pipe and putting a food kiosk in or something.

2. Toilets weren't big enough and had no lighting when I was in.

3. Sooner we can put a concrete terrace behind the away fans goal should help sort viewing issues out and then leave away fans a flat standing corner.

[Quakerz]

- We won't get 3,000 at the next game.

We will.

There are a lot of people that didn't go yesterday who would have ordinarily gone but were unable to do so because of family reasons or they weren't able to get a ticket.

Some of these people, myself included, will be looking at January 7th as their first game back in Darlo.

[Robbie Painter]

Every extra was a tad expensive for me

£5 - Parking
£3 - Pie
£2 - Drink

I'm no pauper and I paid for all of the above, but I did regard as expensive.

How do those prices compare to HP though?

Parking was £3 in Car Park C before it was built on
Burgers were upwards of £3 from the Burger Van
Tea/Coffee? Never bought one but I'd expect roughly the same price.

I think the food and drink prices are probably roughly what you'd expect at this level of football

Couple of issues here. One being general cost. We need to keep it affordable wherever possible. Even, in my opinion, if it means sacrificing some profit.

Second issue, the rugby club are hiking prices on football match days versus what rugby club members pay. 33% extra on a pint and 53% extra on a tea/coffee. No one likes feeling they are being taken for a ride.

[theoriginalfatcat]

Second issue, the rugby club are hiking prices on football match days versus what rugby club members pay. 33% extra on a pint and 53% extra on a tea/coffee. No one likes feeling they are being taken for a ride.

Constructive views - not criticism, tea was £1 at H.P. (upstairs bar) now £2 and not nice. It's not overly important but i still feel that getting drinks and snacks is a habit that people won't take up if things cost too much.

[quakersam]

Oh don't get me wrong I wholeheartedly agree with your comments, it's all extra revenue if it's at a price that fans will pay, and with 3,000 fans in the ground that's a lot of £££. Though what we are actually making from the rugby club bar / catering I don't know. Hopefully that will become clearer in time and the sooner the marquee is done the better, we need that pre match facility for fans to be putting money behind the bar for the FC!

[Neil Johnson]

Again, I'm sure they're things that will be reflected on and improved. I agree though, there are some legitimate problems that need resolving. I can only comment on what I saw. I'd imagine having no toilets on the far side is an issue too, as you'll then end up with a constant stream of people walking in front of the tin shed to use those loos. Maybe some can go at the other end of the shed too.

Maybe in the summer some kind of semi-temporary food shelter could be erected in the far side, over where the pipe is. I'd imagine temporary structures are possible. It's all a learning experience, and we're fan run, so let's feed it back in a helpful way I think. This stuff is important if we want to build the fan base up again, but it has to be done in a constructive way, in my opinion anyway.

When the intended Summer 2017 drainage and pitch works are underway there could be some piping installed to the other side of the pitch. Then Kiosks and Toilets should them be made available.

A moveable cordon should have been re-positioned, before the game, to provide less room for Halifax support and more for the Home support.

[JE93]

Thought everything that had bee put in looked smart and ran like clockwork. Credit as well to the stewards who I thought controlled everything very well.

We all knew that it would be basic to begin with and improvements will depend upon funds available. But certainly:
- another block of toilets in the space behind the tin shed sound sensible.
- Extending the tin shed around the corner up to the pipe would increas capacity and deliver a better view.
- if we could put an external catering van on some temporary hard standing where the water pipe is it would 1) take away strain from the club house side. 2) provide competitive pricing for the rugby club to match.
- finishing off the seated stand and taking it all the way into the corner (these seats might not have the best view but would take up up to say c.700 seats)
- a tin shed at the away end up to where it meets the water pipe (lots of space over there could be even deeper than the tin shed).
- dropping the dugouts a foot or so.
- terracing down the club house side.

All in all loved watching football back in Darlo and I think the ground is a great footprint to build on. I think the best thing the club can do is published the planned improvements to bring it up to 5,000 capacity and give fans an idea of what needs to be raised from our contributions, grants and funds and increased revenue from the football club.

[Neil Johnson]

The main drawback is the difficulty in getting a view. When I took my son to HP I always sat in the seats behind the goal where he could see the game easily. He won't be coming to BM because, he just won't be able to see. We can get there early and get a spot on the fence, but then you can't go get food or go to the toilet because your spot will be gone. This is no surprise of course, that's the way the ground is at the moment but it needs to be a top priority, we can't cut kids off for obvious reasons.

More seats were needed for families, kids and the more senior fans (of which we have an abundance), but it seems the club decided to go for a minimum. It's a shame that the two sets of temporary seating were abandoned and left at Heritage Park, as volunteers could have dismantled, transported and erected them.

Any increase in the low level sections of seating will adversely effect capacity, but I would argue that the ability to watch the game is more important than being at the game.

If the away area was more aligned to the numbers there then there would have been far more space available, especially on the only (for this season) side with food and toilets.

The lack of the promised Marquee bar is another spoiler for many.

Paying "football" prices for snacks is nothing new, so bring a flask and your own food if it's such a serious problem. I'd pay £3 for a Taylor's Growler in a heartbeat, when it is compared to some of the dire fare elsewhere (Kiddy excepted).

Apologies to the disappointed folk, but the development is still "work in progress" so should improve a lot for next season, after the Summer 2017 works are complete.

[H1987]

Yeah, agreed on most of that. I think I'd put seats behind the other goal. They're easier to segregate than a terrace, and I think at Conference level you have to provide seats for away fans too? There's no point in building a huge terrace if we have to give it all to away fans anyway. You could give the away fans hard standing in that corner and say 100 seats, and then segregate with some mesh over a few seats and have Darlington fans up to there. That way you'd also get up to 1,000 seats we would need to move up the leagues. (And I think it's important to have them so kids can see what's going on too!). A crush barrier should be put down the seated stand side where there is hard standing, with the yellow area in front, thus moving fans back from pitch side, to make sure the seated fans have a full view.

I actually think you need to move the dugouts back as well. Because they stick out, they're totally in the way of viewing down that sideline. They should be in line with the fans so you can see past them (and dropped down a step). The fence should simply go around them, but they should be built onto the paved area, not in front of it. They're solid structures anyway with sides so it shouldn't make a difference, and you just put the fence a couple of feet to each side of them to stop fans getting involved. A lot of grounds have dugouts built into stands anyway, so it'd be pretty normal. It'd also mean you could eventually develop that seating area into something effective, (standing on it yesterday, you'd easily be able to pull it out and replace it with 4 rows and extend the roof out to cover the extra row) as you'd see along or over the dugouts - if you move the dugouts back and down a step or two. I can't see the rugby club allowing you to do much else to that side, so maximising it is all we can do. It's not impossible, but a little frustrating it wasn't thought of during construction.

[lo36789]

Be honest some very low level suggestions here and temporary ideas. That is just throwing money away - could affect ground grading etc.

Focus has to be on next fundraising drive and build the ground up in the order which has probably been defined already. It may be that facilities need more work than expected though.

I hope some goodwill has been generated yesterday to encourage folk to invest - but I am conceded that 'Develop BM' doesn't have the same ring to it as 'Back to Darlo' so could take a fair bit of pushing!

If I were to guess at the next order of development...beyond maybe additional toilet facilities would be the second unit of seats adjacent to the ones which have been built - seems to appear you could fit the same again at the away stand end.

I didn't realise it was mandated that away fans have seated accommodation by the way - there must be many many grounds where the away end is terraced? I'd have thought all you need to do is accommodate needs of away fans who need a seat.

[al_quaker]

Overall I was pleasantly surprised with the ground, especially considering the budget it's been built with. I thought the day went pretty well overall, but of course there are some things which need to be improved upon, some long term, and some ASAP.

There needs to be better viewing lines as soon as we can afford it. For most fans, we've got 1 terrace, and the rest is flat standing. This is in contrast to HP, where there was also the grassy bank, and the seats behind the goal. People will very quickly stop coming if they can't get a decent view.

Obviously the first focus has to be getting up to category A standard, but after that we need to think about how to improve the view for more people. Some structure at the away end (which doesn't have to be the away end of course) would be the easiest. Expanding the seating (it's a shame we couldn't afford something a bit taller on that note) would be another. But the clubhouse side is pretty bad to be honest. The dugouts and floodlights make it very difficult to see much if you're not right at the front. As had been suggested, lowering the dugouts would help. I wonder if there is some scope for terracing down that end too - would take a clever bit of planning I'm sure, if it's even possible (or acceptable to the rugby club).

The other thought is is there anything stopping temporary terracing (if it exists) or temporary seating going over the pipe at the far side? Obviously it wouldn't count for capacity, but would help generate more sight lines. If we could "fill in" that gap with things, whether that's temporary stands (if allowed) or facilities, I think it would be better.

A second point is the catering facilities on offer. Quite frankly they were poor. It seems that the rugby club were doing the catering (and it would be a huge shame if we don't have any say in the facilities we provide our own fans). If it's correct that the rugby club is charging more to us than they do their own fans, then that's an absolute disgrace. I hope that's not the case, as it would add to the impression that they see us as a cash cow, and not as a mutually beneficial partnership. Hopefully some clarification (and improvements) will appear sooner rather than later.

The PA system was very difficult to hear from some places - a few more speakers might be in order at some point in the future.

A final thought is that it was strange with the big run off areas behind the goals. I'm not sure whether there is any solution to this, and it may be something I may just have to get used to, but I thought it stunted the atmosphere somewhat.

Overall there is definitely good potential at BM. Attendances are up this season - hopefully we will be on course to make a profit (I can't imagine we expected to be averaging ~1700), and so I'd hope some of the extra money is put aside to take some of the burden off of the fans with regards to financing the improvements needed.

EDIT: Of course, some issues will be alleviated when segregation isn't in place and we're not at capacity, but we need to be able to provide decent facilities and viewing for when we are segregated and/or at full capacity.

[H1987]

Be honest some very low level suggestions here and temporary ideas. That is just throwing money away - could affect ground grading etc.

Focus has to be on next fundraising drive and build the ground up in the order which has probably been defined already. It may be that facilities need more work than expected though.

I hope some goodwill has been generated yesterday to encourage folk to invest - but I am conceded that 'Develop BM' doesn't have the same ring to it as 'Back to Darlo' so could take a fair bit of pushing!

If I were to guess at the next order of development...beyond maybe additional toilet facilities would be the second unit of seats adjacent to the ones which have been built - seems to appear you could fit the same again at the away stand end.

I didn't realise it was mandated that away fans have seated accommodation by the way - there must be many many grounds where the away end is terraced? I'd have thought all you need to do is accommodate needs of away fans who need a seat.

I could be wrong, but I think it is the case you need to provide some availability. Of course the whole end doesn't need to be. If you built a large terrace behind the other goal, I can't see much point to it, as you'd end up giving it to away fans anyway, and how often to we see any kind of large following? Seats can be easily segregated, so you could give that corner of standing plus a little seating, which could be moved depending on demand.

[uncovered]

I would say the next fundraising push will be another 500 club offer. Add another 300 stand onto the existing. We would need 100 to take up the offer to pay for the extra 300.
Lessons will be learnt and it is great to read some of the suggestions, most are small and I would assume we will be able to rectify quite easily.
A bit of open terracing is needed, like feethams either side of the east stand. Terracing in the open end would work although no structure of any nature, temporary or not, will be allowed over the water main or 1.6m either side.
Car park was good. £5 is too steep in my opinion. The organisation was great, loads of stewards and although busy after the game I was out a bit later, so with the police closing grange road I was out quickly and soon home.
I didn't need a trip to the toilets so didn't encounter that issue but we will see if that continues to be a problem in unsegregated lower attended games.

[Yarblockos]

I would say the next fundraising push will be another 500 club offer. Add another 300 stand onto the existing. We would need 100 to take up the offer to pay for the extra 300.
Lessons will be learnt and it is great to read some of the suggestions, most are small and I would assume we will be able to rectify quite easily.
A bit of open terracing is needed, like feethams either side of the east stand. Terracing in the open end would work although no structure of any nature, temporary or not, will be allowed over the water main or 1.6m either side.
Car park was good. £5 is too steep in my opinion. The organisation was great, loads of stewards and although busy after the game I was out a bit later, so with the police closing grange road I was out quickly and soon home.
I didn't need a trip to the toilets so didn't encounter that issue but we will see if that continues to be a problem in unsegregated lower attended games.

I thought temporary structures could be build over the water pipe, as long as they can be removed easily to allow access? Is this not the case?

[Quakerz]

I might be wrong, but I think we might need cover on 3 sides of the pitch to achieve category A, so if that was the case then the terrace would need to be covered?

If we stick a terrace at the open end (either open or covered), because of the pipe we would only get a 2/3rds width terrace, so to significantly increase the capacity in that area and get overall capacity over 4,000, I reckon the terrace would need to be more than 8 steps deep - I'm guessing about 12.

Also - I know budget is the main driver here, but the seated stand shell seems to be way too big for the seats that it houses - could we not have bought a bank of seats 9 or 10 rows deep rather than 6, and if so how much more would it have cost I wonder?

[SwansQuaker83]

I would say the next fundraising push will be another 500 club offer. Add another 300 stand onto the existing. We would need 100 to take up the offer to pay for the extra 300.
Lessons will be learnt and it is great to read some of the suggestions, most are small and I would assume we will be able to rectify quite easily.
A bit of open terracing is needed, like feethams either side of the east stand. Terracing in the open end would work although no structure of any nature, temporary or not, will be allowed over the water main or 1.6m either side.
Car park was good. £5 is too steep in my opinion. The organisation was great, loads of stewards and although busy after the game I was out a bit later, so with the police closing grange road I was out quickly and soon home.
I didn't need a trip to the toilets so didn't encounter that issue but we will see if that continues to be a problem in unsegregated lower attended games.

That blasted pipe!! From the aerial pic I've seen if there's a 1.6m space required then the space between the two current structures is pretty much out of bounds. I noticed yesterday there seems to be a reserves rugby pitch behind the fence so I'm guessing this is the reason the stand didn't go further back... or the pitch wasnt moved further away from the clubhouse thus reducing the pipe's impact and making a structure on the club side possible....Also the middle two floodlights are back but the two in line with the penalty areas are further forward so to fit another seated stand in would mean moving the lights.

We keep debating this on here, as has been said, be nice to see the plans.

[Quakerz]

It would be very nice to see the plans, but I think it was obviously pointless for the club to reveal details before we'd even moved in and had the ground approved category B.

[comeondarlo]

We could stick a fuck load of toilets behind the tinshed. Would take up no viewing space and there's loads of land back there.

The clubhouse was open to all after the game. There was an announcement as such at full time.

I don't think BM feels any closer to town than the Arena to be honest but depends what side of town you're coming from. I used to get train in and it's a 20 Mon walk from the station to the arena. The walk from market Square to BM is similar.

Overall a good day, more toilets definitely needed regardless of a capacity crowd but the ground itself is nice and a good size for our following. Definitely potential to grow as our fanbase (hopefully) does.

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I attended with Spy and echo everything he says.

Toilets are a major issue, I think the current provision would struggle with a third of the crowd. As he says, why not make use of the land behind and at the far end of the shed. A lot used the waste ground as a toilet anyway, so may as well.

The bar after the game was empty basically, £16 for 4 pints; which is OK by me tbh.
Tbh I didn't look for or see a food outlet but I wouldn't want to leave my spot to do so.
I wouldn't have had a view but found a view by hanging off the end of the far end of the Tinshed, great view and far more 'comfortable' than you'd think!

I would hate to pay a fiver to park but there are other free options available!

I loved being back in Darlo, it was a great day. I do question whether we'll get anywhere near 3,000 for future 'normal' games, maybe lucky to break 2,000 in fact but still the toilets wouldn't be sufficient.

[liddle_4_ever]

Yesterday went so much smoother than I expected. No queue to get in. No significant wait to get out. I was glad to see professional stewardship of the car park. Managed to cross Grange Road easily.

One of the only comments I heard was also positive, "the queue for food was surprisingly small".


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[liddle_4_ever]

But I did think it was unnecessary to hold the Halifax fans back after the game (although this could have been due to Police instruction) #freethehalifax300


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[darlo reborn]

Did not know any food was on until the lad with the box of pies came round other side was hoping to find the burger van but no where for it to go

[QuakerPete]

Must get some height for fans' view of the games, unfortunately not a quick fix


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[bga]

Club says on website is taking on board feedback from Boxing Day. I hope they request more feedback perhaps via a dedicated email address? Would be interesting to get the views also of Halifax supporters as we should remember a game at BM is not just about Home supporters?

[Q8Quaker]

Just a point on the toilet issue. During the two busiest times for toilet use, which are the 15 minutes leading upto kick off and at half time, the queue which snaked back to the turnstile area appeared to be entirely made up of able bodied males. As the toilet area consists of male, female and disabled toilets, wouldn't it be feasible to allow the AB males to use the disabled toilet and allow any disabled person who turned up, to go straight to the front of the queue? Be a bit more difficult with the female toilets but seems daft to have half the toilet capacity doing nothing whilst a few hundred blokes are trying to hold it in!

[comeondarlo]

Just a point on the toilet issue. During the two busiest times for toilet use, which are the 15 minutes leading upto kick off and at half time, the queue which snaked back to the turnstile area appeared to be entirely made up of able bodied males. As the toilet area consists of male, female and disabled toilets, wouldn't it be feasible to allow the AB males to use the disabled toilet and allow any disabled person who turned up, to go straight to the front of the queue? Be a bit more difficult with the female toilets but seems daft to have half the toilet capacity doing nothing whilst a few hundred blokes are trying to hold it in!

I was in the queue 5 minutes before kick off and that's basically what happened with the disabled toilet, not with the female one as they were quite well used too.

[Darlo_Pete]

The queues for the toilets could get worse, if and when alcohol is sold at the ground before a game!

[Yarblockos]

But I did think it was unnecessary to hold the Halifax fans back after the game (although this could have been due to Police instruction) #freethehalifax300

Are the Halifax fans still there?

[Shaymen down under]

But I did think it was unnecessary to hold the Halifax fans back after the game (although this could have been due to Police instruction) #freethehalifax300

Are the Halifax fans still there?

I wouldn't look at Halifax reviews, they aren't very happy with the experience. From rude staff when they arrived at 12. To overpriced food/drink sold on a trestle table open to the elements. To absolutely no provision at all for away disabled fans(ending in an hr long argument) finishing off with being locked in the ground for 30mins after the game....