Darlo v Halifax Match Thread

[gabbas]

Im going to stick up for Jameson a little bit here, the first goal moved all over, and no one I don't think has even mentioned Scott who was off the pitch having a drink which allowed the short corner to be taken and Scott couldn't close him down in time.
You can see that it was going in from the highlights and now over as some have suggested.

[Darlogramps]

Totally agree with darlodaz, how long do you give a player to develop especially a keeper, he is having a poor season without doubt but his positioning/decision making is a weakness.Darlogramps , your post is right up there as one of your worst IMO, and there have been many.

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Bit bizarre to be scapegoating Jameson when there are failings elsewhere defensively. We don't need to be chopping and changing, particularly this season.

All well and good having a go at me, but I notice you're not offering a constructive alternative. Who would you bring in as a replacement? Bit cowardly to criticise but not suggest what could be done instead.

You're also ignoring the many times throughout the years he's saved us points with brilliant performances.

The fact you agree with tiny-brained DarloDaz says it all. Your lazy and brainless criticism offers no suggestion of how to improve things. But then again, tiny-brained people tend not to be capable of thinking up intelligent solutions.

[Darlogramps]

To go back to darlogramps, I don't think replacing a player is 'abandoning player development', it's just part of rising through the league's.

Depends how you view it. In terms of team development, you'd be right.

In terms of Jameson improving as a player, I don't see how you could say getting rid of him is anything other than abandoning his development.

And as I've asked repeatedly, if not Jameson, then who else do we bring in?

And given we're 4th, is it essential that we replace a keeper who's served us well, particularly in a season where promotion isn't the be all and end all?

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[H1987]

Maybe someone on loan could provide competition?

[darlodaz]

funny enough gramps your the only one who I would a go at!!! still remember your remarks about something completely different to football on the echo site although you dispute it you fucking coward.
oh and by the way i don't think we are ready to go up off the pitch yet and certainly not on it with jameson.

[eddie-rowles]

Think a few went off at a tangent taking the point as being unloyal, his kicking was poor last season and still continues to be a worry, rarely throws it out or delivers to forwards quickly;we must have a second goalkeeper pushing jameson for his place, who that is upto MG. Mark Bell could not get a game when Jameson struggled with groin injury or had a howler on opening game at Altrincham, left me frustrated having Bely on bench?. I would have put belly in goal until Jameson improved, Tony Norman is too old to play so simple maths loose one from payrole if it is financially required, or continue the search

[QUAKERMAN2]

Darlogramps, we might just get the odd clean sheet if we had a keeper who made fewer mistakes than Jameson, I thought the young lad on loan from Newcastle was technically better than Jameson and he is only 18 or 19 I think.Looking forward to the comments from MG, he is the one that we should listen to so let's wait and see, until then, have a great 2017.Up the Quakers.

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[Darlogramps]

funny enough gramps your the only one who I would a go at!!! still remember your remarks about something completely different to football on the echo site although you dispute it you fucking coward.
oh and by the way i don't think we are ready to go up off the pitch yet and certainly not on it with jameson.

My point is proven. You criticise Jameson but don't have the intellectual capability to offer an alternative, so instead you resort to profanity, anger and abuse. The fact it's so illiterate makes it even funnier.

Oh and genuinely, the person on the Echo site is not me. I'm being completely honest. If you don't want to believe that, that's up to you. But there'd be no reason for me to deny it.

[Darlogramps]

Think a few went off at a tangent taking the point as being unloyal, his kicking was poor last season and still continues to be a worry, rarely throws it out or delivers to forwards quickly;we must have a second goalkeeper pushing jameson for his place, who that is upto MG. Mark Bell could not get a game when Jameson struggled with groin injury or had a howler on opening game at Altrincham, left me frustrated having Bely on bench?. I would have put belly in goal until Jameson improved, Tony Norman is too old to play so simple maths loose one from payrole if it is financially required, or continue the search

In amongst this garbled attempt at the English language, you appear to be suggesting Bell should play.

1. He's a goalkeeping coach now, who'll play in emergencies only.
2. He's not played in years, and certainly not at National League North level. Why would he be any better?
3. Tony Norman?
4. Can we afford a second keeper who wouldn't be getting any game time? Evidently not.

[Neil Johnson]

I'm a big fan of Jameson. Think we need to show some patience here. He is young, still learning and getting better. We have to accept some mistakes will be made.

He is streets ahead of the similar age recent pro loanee gk we got from Hartlepool.

MG has the right approach here in giving Jameson his full backing.

A keeper that would challenge Jameson is a luxury we can't afford imo.

I don't think criticising our keeper is going to help matters. The two speculative shots that were well executed by Morgan, weren't closed down by outfielders, so should they also be criticised?

Is Jameson being made the Whipping Boy for the many failings of our defence that have come to light THIS season?

Jameson will know he has made errors with his attention and positioning and that he should not get distracted by the big game occasion, so with help from Bell & Gray he may improve on the required level of concentration for THIS and higher leagues.

Darlo will be up against a lot of speculative Halifax shots next weekend and I expect Jameson and his teammates, will be need to be more vigilant than yesterday.

Jameson is very young, but definitely has the potential to become a long term favourite, but only if the fans and club have faith in him.

Jameson has made lots of great saves that have helped the team secure several promotion points THIS season.

More goals have been conceded THIS season from slack marking by the outfielders, so I would say an extra defender option would benefit the club more than having a new unproven reserve keeper being paid to occupy the bench.

Martin Gray is adapt at developing younger players and having the faith to persevere to get the best out of them. He can't jiggle with a keeper's position, so it needs to be more of a mind game.

If the club reacted, in the past, to a small percentage of complaining fans there would be a few current first team favourites no longer at the club.

[Spyman]

To go back to darlogramps, I don't think replacing a player is 'abandoning player development', it's just part of rising through the league's.

Depends how you view it. In terms of team development, you'd be right.

In terms of Jameson improving as a player, I don't see how you could say getting rid of him is anything other than abandoning his development.

And as I've asked repeatedly, if not Jameson, then who else do we bring in?

And given we're 4th, is it essential that we replace a keeper who's served us well, particularly in a season where promotion isn't the be all and end all?

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I agree there's no rush to replace him and he's clearly played a part in our being 4th at this stage of the season. We won't find the perfect keeper at this level and I hope he continues to improve and can grow with the club. I just take exception to people using a keeper making saves as a justification of his quality.

You could call replacing Jameson 'abandoning his development', but you could apply that term to dozens of other players who haven't made the grade - ultimately if they don't improve to the standard we need them to then we move them on. I don't see why Jameson would be any different to Purewal, Mitchell, Dowson or countless others. Ultimately if he ends up playing at a level he's not good enough for that is going to harm his development as much as anything.

All of the above is speculation - I don't particularly doubt Jameson is good enough and will continue to be good enough for a while yet.

[m62exile]

I don't see the need for major debate here really. He's having a poor season, and the two errors yesterday were inexcusable.

[H1987]

The first one does move, but not to a point where it's excusable... If it'd swerved past him fair enough, but it's simply weak wristed palming it into the net that is the problem.

I'm sure Jameson himself and MG know that isn't good enough. It's not about targeting the player in this instance. You either adapt to the level, or you leave yourself open to being replaced. It's just how it is, it's not personal and MG will do what's best for the club!

[theoriginalfatcat]

I was just about to write this ........ but Spyman beat me to it.

You could call replacing Jameson 'abandoning his development', but you could apply that term to dozens of other players who haven't made the grade - ultimately if they don't improve to the standard we need them to then we move them on. I don't see why Jameson would be any different to Purewal, Mitchell, Dowson or countless others. Ultimately if he ends up playing at a level he's not good enough for that is going to harm his development as much as anything.

Just because he's a goal keeper doesn't make any of the above less applicable. I think Jameson will be a little worried right now, as he's seen a number of his young team mates (Mitchell lately) disappear. Halifax's second goal was a bad mistake - we got a good view of it. The recent sending off was stupid!!

I don't think fans need to name possible replacement players in order to make any criticisms stand up - surely this is Martin Gray's job, and he's shown that he can source players that can improve the team from all over.

[lo36789]

I don't think fans need to name possible replacement players in order to make any criticisms stand up - surely this is Martin Gray's job, and he's shown that he can source players that can improve the team from all over.

They don't - but surely by the same token fans should therefore trust that if there was a better alternative available he would have already been sourced.

Gray is clearly sticking by his man for a reason.

[liddle_4_ever]

For what it's worth I don't believe we should be looking for a replacement at the moment. That's something that should be considered after the season has ended.

I don't buy this "we need an additional GK to push Jameson" tripe, if he needs to be pushed he won't make the grade. Players need to be ambitious and committed to their personal development.


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[H1987]

Eh? So by your logic, every footballer everywhere is good enough for their respective position because if they weren't, a replacement would have been sourced? You do realise how daft that sounds, don't you?

Players aren't always up to the standard, but similarly clubs can't always get who they want for any number of reasons or restrictions.

If we want a name, I'll chuck one in. Aynsley Pears at Boro. Played in the UEFA youth run last year, son of Stephen Pears. Boro have 4 keepers ahead of him. They might consider loaning us him and he could train with them the rest of the week as I'd imagine he's full time. Hopefully we're getting back to a level when we can borrow from them again.

[lo36789]

No. That isn't what was said that is a very limited interpretation.

My logic is if a player isn't good enough, and a replacement is available and within budget etc. then they would be replaced.

Gray probably (well actually with Liddle being at Boro will definitely) know about Pears. Maybe he isn't better than Jameson, or at least Gray doesn't believe so.

[Spyman]

As was said above, promotion is far from a necessity this season. Being competitive and giving returning/new fans something to be excited about is.

As I see it, with the current set of players we are competitive and will win more than we lose, and that should attract fans through the gate. We need to entice those fans to buy season tickets next season, that's priority.

Jameson may be one of those looking over his shoulder, he's risen several divisions with us now in a short space of time. He's not the only player making mistakes though I am sure. As a goalkeeper, mistakes are naturally more noticeable.

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[comeondarlo]

Personally I'd stick with Jameson, I sure faith in him will be repaid.

I thought Carts had a great game yesterday, surely he should be starting regularly!

[LoidLucan]

He had a mare yesterday but he's basically a decent enough keeper. Yesterday's errors have closely followed his sending off at Telford which cost us points but it's important not to over-react. He's been one of the mainstays of our rise through the leagues and has largely produced consistently good performances over a long period. This season he's mainly put in solid enough performances with one or two outstanding ones, as at Tamworth. And he played on despite struggling with injury earlier in the season which handicapped him and did have an effect.

For me he's done enough for our club long-term to earn our support during what I'm sure is just a temporary dip. Totally unfair to heap the pressure on... patience please, he's earned it.

[Yarblockos]

He had a mare yesterday but he's basically a decent enough keeper. Yesterday's errors have closely followed his sending off at Telford which cost us points but it's important not to over-react. He's been one of the mainstays of our rise through the leagues and has largely produced consistently good performances over a long period. This season he's mainly put in solid enough performances with one or two outstanding ones, as at Tamworth. And he played on despite struggling with injury earlier in the season which handicapped him and did have an effect.

For me he's done enough for our club long-term to earn our support during what I'm sure is just a temporary dip. Totally unfair to heap the pressure on... patience please, he's earned it.

It's clearly not an over reaction to a couple of bad games or a temporary dip in form. People have been grumbling about Jameson since last season, check the forum and you'll see. He has consistently been making mistakes and hasn't kept a clean sheet since August. People have shown patience.

Yes, he has been a mainstay for us, but that was in lower leagues. I don't believe he has improved as a goalkeeper in that time and I think his weaknesses are now being exposed when playing at a higher level.

[Spyman]

He had a mare yesterday but he's basically a decent enough keeper. Yesterday's errors have closely followed his sending off at Telford which cost us points but it's important not to over-react. He's been one of the mainstays of our rise through the leagues and has largely produced consistently good performances over a long period. This season he's mainly put in solid enough performances with one or two outstanding ones, as at Tamworth. And he played on despite struggling with injury earlier in the season which handicapped him and did have an effect.

For me he's done enough for our club long-term to earn our support during what I'm sure is just a temporary dip. Totally unfair to heap the pressure on... patience please, he's earned it.

It's clearly not an over reaction to a couple of bad games or a temporary dip in form. People have been grumbling about Jameson since last season, check the forum and you'll see. He has consistently been making mistakes and hasn't kept a clean sheet since August. People have shown patience.

Yes, he has been a mainstay for us, but that was in lower leagues. I don't believe he has improved as a goalkeeper in that time and I think his weaknesses are now being exposed when playing at a higher level.

A lack of clean sheets is probably more indicative of the defence not stepping up than simply the goalkeeper. 4 of our back 5 have had to step up a level, and 4 of those have stepped up 2 levels in 2 seasons.

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[Yarblockos]

A lack of clean sheets is probably more indicative of the defence not stepping up than simply the goalkeeper. 4 of our back 5 have had to step up a level, and 4 of those have stepped up 2 levels in 2 seasons.

So if the goalkeeper is fine, who out of the back four do we need to replace?

[Spyman]

A lack of clean sheets is probably more indicative of the defence not stepping up than simply the goalkeeper. 4 of our back 5 have had to step up a level, and 4 of those have stepped up 2 levels in 2 seasons.

So if the goalkeeper is fine, who out of the back four do we need to replace?

I'm not saying the goalkeeper is fine or picking out individual players. I'm saying it shows a lack of knowledge to suggest the goalkeeper is the only one responsible for not keeping clean sheets.

Brown and Galbraith have both moved up several levels in a short space of time. Burgess has also had to step up. We're playing with two wingers who probably don't have the same work rate as some we've had before.

There are numerous explanations for a lack of clean sheets, not just a goalkeeper making some mistakes. Ultimately we are 4th in the league at the turn of the year, once again in a stronger division than we were in last season. I don't see too much to worry about on the pitch.

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[Yarblockos]

I'm not saying the goalkeeper is fine or picking out individual players. I'm saying it shows a lack of knowledge to suggest the goalkeeper is the only one responsible for not keeping clean sheets.

Brown and Galbraith have both moved up several levels in a short space of time. Burgess has also had to step up. We're playing with two wingers who probably don't have the same work rate as some we've had before.

There are numerous explanations for a lack of clean sheets, not just a goalkeeper making some mistakes. Ultimately we are 4th in the league at the turn of the year, once again in a stronger division than we were in last season. I don't see too much to worry about on the pitch.

I wasn't suggesting the lack of clean sheets was the only evidence of Jameson not being good enough. Nor did I suggest the goalkeeper was the only one responsible for clean sheets. I think you've created a straw man there. Jameson makes lots of mistakes and a lack of clean sheets is just part of the case against him.

[super_les_mcjannet]

When Jameson wasn't playing due to injury/suspension how many clean sheets did we get, just I can't remember many of them?

Obviously I am being a little flippant but I am sure it backs up what many including Spyman has just advised.

[Yarblockos]

When Jameson wasn't playing due to injury/suspension how many clean sheets did we get, just I can't remember many of them?

Obviously I am being a little flippant but I am sure it backs up what many including Spyman has just advised.

Yes, but never did I suggest that the lack of clean sheets was the only reason to believe Jameson isn't good enough, and nobody has suggested it is. Not sure why we are arguing over something nobody believes.

[super_les_mcjannet]

Goals conceded per game ratio

With Jameson (including the 2 v Telford when he was sent off)
18 games, 27 goals at 1.5 goals per game

Without Jameson
7 games, 13 goals at 1.86 per game

[super_les_mcjannet]

When Jameson wasn't playing due to injury/suspension how many clean sheets did we get, just I can't remember many of them?

Obviously I am being a little flippant but I am sure it backs up what many including Spyman has just advised.

Yes, but never did I suggest that the lack of clean sheets was the only reason to believe Jameson isn't good enough, and nobody has suggested it is. Not sure why we are arguing over something nobody believes.

His stats currently suggest he is doing ok, I can see if he doesn't come through his little dip then in the summer Gray may look again but at the moment I don't see any great issue.