Full time

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Spyman
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Full time

Post by Spyman » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:06 am

There's a comment on yesterday's match thread about this and it has briefly been touched on before, but something crossed my mind about the implications of going full time at some point in our future.

Something that may be relevant is that it may not be as simple as sticking everyone on a full time salary and contract. We may have players whose earnings as part-time players with another income earn more than we can offer as full timers. What do we do then? Have some players training full time and some joining a couple of sessions a week?

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On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

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JE93
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Re: Full time

Post by JE93 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:18 am

It's always an interesting question. You often hear about full-time and part time sides. But I have often wondered if any clubs operate on a mixed basis. Having a small core squad of 12-14 FT pros. Topped up by kids who may be able to train mote often and with those who remaining part time is a better option joining for a couple of sessions a week.

Would be interested to know if anyone has examples of any clubs using this method?

Quakerz
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Re: Full time

Post by Quakerz » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:18 pm

Southport (who are generally known as a part time club) - i think I read somewhere a few seasons ago that they were actually a mixture of part timers with a few full timers in there. Don't know if that's the case now.

I remember when Scarborough got promoted to the FL that in their 1st season they still contained several part time players.
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SwansQuaker83
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Re: Full time

Post by SwansQuaker83 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:39 pm

I guess the problem as a mixed venture is training, not all training sessions will involve the whole squad.

Beano
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Re: Full time

Post by Beano » Sun Nov 13, 2016 1:19 pm

Spyman wrote:We may have players whose earnings as part-time players with another income earn more than we can offer as full timers.
This is where the problem will lie. It is not as simple as many think.

Imagine you are a successful 30 year old PE teacher, who is Head of Department of a large school, and has taught since university alongside a semi-professional football career. Their teaching salary could be around £35-40k, plus whatever they earn via football.

They may need a wage of £1k a week to break even financially, and that is before you consider their pension scheme, and the risk to future employment post-football.

footifan
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Re: Full time

Post by footifan » Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:28 pm

A mix would not be for the first time... in the 60's probably before... Darlo has had a number of part time players on it's books.
Lance Robson being the most famous.
Ray Spencer scorer of the 1st goal when we beat Bobby Moore's West Ham in the League Cup was a teacher at Eastbourne School.
Ray Snowball an amateur with Crook Town often called up as back up keeper was also a Headmaster.

If & when we do turn full time pro there will a transitional period where there is a mix... It is not that unusual

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Robbie Painter
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Re: Full time

Post by Robbie Painter » Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:14 pm

I can't see how it'll be financially viable to go full time unless we get into the football league. Numbers unlikely to stack up even on 3k crowds.

I'd rather stay part time in conference in any case.

jjljks
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Re: Full time

Post by jjljks » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:38 am

Robbie Painter wrote:I can't see how it'll be financially viable to go full time unless we get into the football league. Numbers unlikely to stack up even on 3k crowds.

I'd rather stay part time in conference in any case.
Wise words. MG has done a great job identifying gifted lads who are happy to combine their jobs with being part of a successful side. There may be some moves toward full time but would suggest that first full-timer should be on the commercial side as we need more streams of income, sponsorship / advertising and events to supplement the great efforts of Supporters club, volunteers and the Board. Revenue through the crowds through the turnstiles will improve matters but could be some time before we can make the leap to a team of pros. Everyone deserves a pat on the back for getting us to where we are now.

dickdarlington
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Re: Full time

Post by dickdarlington » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Martin Gray mentioned at the fans forum it would take a playing budget of £1m to be competitive in the conference. With other running costs and so on, you're looking at a minumum turnover of £1.6m to break even, before considering ground development costs etc.

We have a significant number of 500 club tickets which won't generate any more gate revenue until 2020 but even discounting that, 3k @£12 (guide) x 23 games = £828k. Can we raise another £800k from sponsorship/prize money? It's doubtful.

Fact is, whilst we're fan owned, we can't afford to go pro until at least 2020 unless we're in the FL. Possibly longer.

Neil Johnson
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Re: Full time

Post by Neil Johnson » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:49 pm

There may be DFC players who want to remain part time for financial / job security reasons. Some players may be able to obtain day releases from work for weekly training day.

A million may not be needed for the players, especially if the squad isn't 100% full time.

£600,000 for running costs may be high, bearing in mind the level of voluntary hours.

There are a lot of income spin-offs that can come from continued success on the field and higher crowds.

There will be VAT demands however, but with at least 13 home games to go this season there could be sufficient cash flow to start employing some full time players next season.

Kids are effectively in full time training on non-college days by virtue of them being in MG's academy.

Another fundraising appeal for increasing the covered seating was mentioned by DFC at a BM forum, so hopefully ground upgrading may not prevent some full time playing contracts being undertaken.

Will Smith
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Re: Full time

Post by Will Smith » Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:16 am

Better to have the pick of the best part time players vs the worst full time dross. Part time clubs can be successful in the conference, look at Woking from recent seasons, narrowly missed the playoffs in 12/13 with a budget of 350k

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Robbie Painter
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Re: Full time

Post by Robbie Painter » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:47 am

Will Smith wrote:Better to have the pick of the best part time players vs the worst full time dross. Part time clubs can be successful in the conference, look at Woking from recent seasons, narrowly missed the playoffs in 12/13 with a budget of 350k
I agree.

2 of the teams in the conference playoffs last season, Dover & Braintree, were part time. So success can be achieved even in division above without turning full time.

lo36789
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Re: Full time

Post by lo36789 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:51 am

Basically top end part-time players are better than low end full time players. To get them full time you have to match both the job security and wages of their other career.

Turnbull and Syers are the best examples going. To get players of their quality we'd probably have to pay over and above their respective teacher and accountants salary (to account for short term contract/shorter career).

Neil is living in some fantasy world to be honest that we have cash sloshing about because attendances have been slightly better than expected at HP. I wouldn't be surprised if we had a deficit for the first part of the season due to additional rent compounding the 500club problem.

A club cannot sustainably be full time on crowds of 2,000-2,500 without being FL and having payments coming down from PL etc. It definitely can't be sustainable when a percentage of those attendance are bringing in no revenue.

The suggestion that we'd start bringing in full time players is absurd - who is going to coach them, who are they going to train with?

Gow9900
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Re: Full time

Post by Gow9900 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:59 am

Remember listening to an interview with Phil Turnbull when he spoke about the transition from Conference North to Conference National when he was with Gateshead.

He spoke about the first season they were in that league, and were still part time.

He said they were training 2/3 nights a week, and also stopping over on Friday nights if they had a game down south on a Saturday. He also said the travelling was hard work, and told a story of playing Eastbourne away on a Tuesday night, getting back home at 7am and some players shooting straight off to work.

We have lots of players that could easily make the step upto Conference National level, but it's another level of commitment together as well as an obvious massive step up in quality.

So IF we get promoted this season, in my opinion, we would be going into next season as a part time outfit with the intention of surviving/consolidating, with a big emphasis on looking to build the off field infrastructure

banktopp
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Re: Full time

Post by banktopp » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:14 am

Agree with focus on building off field infrastructure but don't think MG does surviving/consolidating.

HarryCharltonsCat
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Re: Full time

Post by HarryCharltonsCat » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:30 pm

MG is worth a few bob. Perhaps he can be the "benefactor"?

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