DFCSG Community Shares

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DFCSG Comm Shares
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DFCSG Community Shares

Post by DFCSG Comm Shares » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:17 pm

Please raise any questions in here regarding community shares.

footifan
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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by footifan » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:46 am

I posted this to Mr Tibbs, then I saw this post:
Is there a simple way to invest from overseas ?
I will be investing, I still have UK bank accounts so pretty easy but I will be asking some of my USA friends to invest too, obviously they would not have UK accounts
Who is the best person to chat to re this ?

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Mr_Tibbs
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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by Mr_Tibbs » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:33 am

footifan wrote:I posted this to Mr Tibbs, then I saw this post:
Is there a simple way to invest from overseas ?
I will be investing, I still have UK bank accounts so pretty easy but I will be asking some of my USA friends to invest too, obviously they would not have UK accounts
Who is the best person to chat to re this ?
Hello mate,

I know this was raised during development of the scheme and it was decided to deal with overseas purchases on a case-by-case basis.

They will need to be members of the Supporters Group, for a start, but this can be dealt with on a personal basis. If they want to make pledges then ask them to send an email to cs@darlingtonfc.org with their details and the amount they want to pledge.

I "think" it's the GoCardless option which is the stumbling block for overseas investors (unless they have a UK account, like yourself), as this is an online Direct Debit service. Ordinary bank transfers shouldn't be a problem and, in fact, are better because we don't lose anything from the GoCardless transaction fee.

I also think that most people these days are so used to making their own transfers via online banking that the bank transfer option should be promoted as much as possible, though the downside to that is that the payment isn't automatically deducted if the target is reached (as happens with GoCardless) so we're relying on people's goodwill in following through on their promise - and also there is more administrative work to do in chasing people up to try and get them to do that.

I wonder if an escrow facility for overseas pledgers might be worth considering?
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darlodaz
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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by darlodaz » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:22 am

is it at all possible for some direct debit forms to be printed along with clubs info etc for direct debit purposes and be made available at home matches/dolphin center even distributed to pubs and clubs.lots of people might not be aware of our initiative even if we get a few more that way it will be worth it.i for one will be and sure i could get a few more interested even at a fiver a month.thanks

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by DFCSG_Secretary » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:35 am

footifan wrote:I posted this to Mr Tibbs, then I saw this post:
Is there a simple way to invest from overseas ?
I will be investing, I still have UK bank accounts so pretty easy but I will be asking some of my USA friends to invest too, obviously they would not have UK accounts
Who is the best person to chat to re this ?
I'll PM you.

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by JE93 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:19 am

Just checking I understand this scheme before I put some money in. With community share issue would I have rights to attend and vote in a DFC AGM as a shareholder. Or would I only have voting rights and attendance rights at a DFCSG meeting?

Thanks in advance for any help

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by DFCSG Comm Shares » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:25 am

darlodaz wrote:is it at all possible for some direct debit forms to be printed along with clubs info etc for direct debit purposes and be made available at home matches/dolphin center even distributed to pubs and clubs.lots of people might not be aware of our initiative even if we get a few more that way it will be worth it.i for one will be and sure i could get a few more interested even at a fiver a month.thanks
Yup, indeed - there's an electronic version we created here:

http://darlingtonfootballclub.co.uk/wp- ... _Order.pdf

And yes, we'll make sure there are some hard copies that do the rounds. Anyone who frequents a specif pub / club etc and would be willing to distribute to help us out please get in touch and we'll deliver some hard copies - or better still print them yourself :) As Richard Cook rightly said last night - it's everyone's responsibility to get out there and get your friends talked into it!

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by DFCSG Comm Shares » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:28 am

JE93 wrote:Just checking I understand this scheme before I put some money in. With community share issue would I have rights to attend and vote in a DFC AGM as a shareholder. Or would I only have voting rights and attendance rights at a DFCSG meeting?

Thanks in advance for any help
It's a great question and one we've discussed already around how that might work, especially given we're asking individual share holders in DFC1883 to transfer their shareholding into Community Shares.

I'll get a definitive answer for you ASAP

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by Neil Johnson » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:51 am

footifan wrote:I posted this to Mr Tibbs, then I saw this post:
Is there a simple way to invest from overseas ?
I will be investing, I still have UK bank accounts so pretty easy but I will be asking some of my USA friends to invest too, obviously they would not have UK accounts
Who is the best person to chat to re this ?
DFSG website have a comments / query facility under "Contacts"

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by DFCSG Comm Shares » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:55 am

Neil Johnson wrote:
footifan wrote:I posted this to Mr Tibbs, then I saw this post:
Is there a simple way to invest from overseas ?
I will be investing, I still have UK bank accounts so pretty easy but I will be asking some of my USA friends to invest too, obviously they would not have UK accounts
Who is the best person to chat to re this ?
DFSG website have a comments / query facility under "Contacts"
We'll also have a FAQ section pretty soon so once a question is asked and answered we can provide the answer to all.

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by Neil Johnson » Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:58 am

DFCSG Comm Shares wrote:
JE93 wrote:Just checking I understand this scheme before I put some money in. With community share issue would I have rights to attend and vote in a DFC AGM as a shareholder. Or would I only have voting rights and attendance rights at a DFCSG meeting?

Thanks in advance for any help
It's a great question and one we've discussed already around how that might work, especially given we're asking individual share holders in DFC1883 to transfer their shareholding into Community Shares.

I'll get a definitive answer for you ASAP
DFCSG meeting, to choose/advise the DFCSG Rep(s) on the club board.

Questions can also be raised using the "Contact" facility on the DFCSG web page.

I am taking all of my club shares (from my donation) and converting them to community shares (investments).

The power to vote is no big deal. Power is with those deciding the voting choices and I have faith in the fan representative system.

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Mr_Tibbs
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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by Mr_Tibbs » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:14 am

If anyone wants to email specific questions about the Community Share Offer then the address to send them to is:

cs [at] darlingtonfc.org

For general questions just post them here for everyone to read and see the answers.

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OHDFC
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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by OHDFC » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:37 am

Mr_Tibbs wrote:
footifan wrote:I posted this to Mr Tibbs, then I saw this post:
Is there a simple way to invest from overseas ?
I will be investing, I still have UK bank accounts so pretty easy but I will be asking some of my USA friends to invest too, obviously they would not have UK accounts
Who is the best person to chat to re this ?
Hello mate,

I know this was raised during development of the scheme and it was decided to deal with overseas purchases on a case-by-case basis.

They will need to be members of the Supporters Group, for a start, but this can be dealt with on a personal basis. If they want to make pledges then ask them to send an email to cs@darlingtonfc.org with their details and the amount they want to pledge.

I "think" it's the GoCardless option which is the stumbling block for overseas investors (unless they have a UK account, like yourself), as this is an online Direct Debit service. Ordinary bank transfers shouldn't be a problem and, in fact, are better because we don't lose anything from the GoCardless transaction fee.

I also think that most people these days are so used to making their own transfers via online banking that the bank transfer option should be promoted as much as possible, though the downside to that is that the payment isn't automatically deducted if the target is reached (as happens with GoCardless) so we're relying on people's goodwill in following through on their promise - and also there is more administrative work to do in chasing people up to try and get them to do that.

I wonder if an escrow facility for overseas pledgers might be worth considering?
Excuse my ignorance, but couldn't an IBAN be used for international bank transfers (not just for the communuty share but also the DFCSG membership, donations etc.)? I use these regular to transfer money between countries (admitedly only in Europe)

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by DFCSG Comm Shares » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:03 pm

Yes, we can use IBAN but we just need to take some additional details from investors wanting to use an overseas bank account so you'll just need to contact us directly at cs@darlingtonfc.org first to tie that up.

For overseas investors with a UK bank account you can pledge as if you were UK based

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by Neil Johnson » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:59 pm

OHDFC wrote:
Mr_Tibbs wrote:
footifan wrote:I posted this to Mr Tibbs, then I saw this post:
Is there a simple way to invest from overseas ?
I will be investing, I still have UK bank accounts so pretty easy but I will be asking some of my USA friends to invest too, obviously they would not have UK accounts
Who is the best person to chat to re this ?
Hello mate,

I know this was raised during development of the scheme and it was decided to deal with overseas purchases on a case-by-case basis.

They will need to be members of the Supporters Group, for a start, but this can be dealt with on a personal basis. If they want to make pledges then ask them to send an email to cs@darlingtonfc.org with their details and the amount they want to pledge.

I "think" it's the GoCardless option which is the stumbling block for overseas investors (unless they have a UK account, like yourself), as this is an online Direct Debit service. Ordinary bank transfers shouldn't be a problem and, in fact, are better because we don't lose anything from the GoCardless transaction fee.

I also think that most people these days are so used to making their own transfers via online banking that the bank transfer option should be promoted as much as possible, though the downside to that is that the payment isn't automatically deducted if the target is reached (as happens with GoCardless) so we're relying on people's goodwill in following through on their promise - and also there is more administrative work to do in chasing people up to try and get them to do that.

I wonder if an escrow facility for overseas pledgers might be worth considering?
Excuse my ignorance, but couldn't an IBAN be used for international bank transfers (not just for the communuty share but also the DFCSG membership, donations etc.)? I use these regular to transfer money between countries (admitedly only in Europe)
For some inexplicable reason a UK rather than overseas account must be used. I normally pay DFC by IBAN from my Norwegian account, but couldn't on this occasion for making my pledge and payment.

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by Neil Johnson » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:13 pm

The pledges are near the 16% mark and the club said last night that if demand was reaching the £100,000 target quick, they can an increase to the target.

More share sales will be useful for providing more seats, parking etc if it is deemed to be required.

Fans & other supporters may have some dead money sitting as float in zero interest bank accounts. This can be better used for doing some good when it is invested with DFC.

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QuakerPete
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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by QuakerPete » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:25 pm

I note from the offer document that anyone investing £500+ in community shares can claim back 30% EIS tax, but only if DFCSG own 90% of the shares.

Can you clear up a few points (sorry if already answered), namely:
What percentage is already owned by DFCSG?
Will this £100,000 scheme push that over the 90% mark in its own right?
Would this then qualify a £500 investor for the 30% tax relief when the funds are drawn down?
Or would DFC shareholders have to convert their shares too, or what number would need to convert to achieve 90% ownership overall?
If the &100,000 target falls short, will the funds still be used?

lo36789
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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by lo36789 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:51 pm

Am I right in thinking the way they want to push to over 90% is by converting other share holders to community shares.

If they do that then it could be 100% DFCSG owned.

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by quakerlady » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:58 pm

I dont want my shareholding converting.

shawry
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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by shawry » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:21 pm

How does that work converting? as that seems like the club giving the DFCSG money, then loaning it back?

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:30 pm

shawry wrote:How does that work converting? as that seems like the club giving the DFCSG money, then loaning it back?
I presume the converting is the share owners choice, basically you are giving your shares to DFCSG and they will give you community shares to the value of those shares in the football club.

They key thing I would assume is you can get your money back in the CBS shares, you pretty much can't in shares in the club.

It's a choice for those individuals with shares in the club.

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by DFCSG Comm Shares » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:30 pm

lo36789 wrote:Am I right in thinking the way they want to push to over 90% is by converting other share holders to community shares.

If they do that then it could be 100% DFCSG owned.
That is the only way we can get to 90% shareholding as there is not enough equity available, nor would we be able to raise enough capital even if it was, to get to 90%

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by DFCSG Comm Shares » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:42 pm

quakerlady wrote:I dont want my shareholding converting.
No-one will be forced to transfer. In order to transfer shareholding you would need to complete the necessary paperwork to authorise this. If this doesn't happen your shareholding in Darlington 1883 Ltd. will remain as-is.

We do however hope that enough people will transfer their shareholding for us to reach the 90% target as we feel that being able to offer the 30% tax relief really makes the offer attractive from a return on investment point of view, not just for this particular offer but for offers in the future. Our aim is to prove that whilst Comunity Shares benefit the football club they will also benefit the investor.

To put this into perspective, if you were to invest £1000 and we are successful in obtaining the tax relief and provided you have enough of an income tax liability, that investment will have only cost you £700. If you then withdraw those shares after 5 years (funds dependent) you've made at least £300, potentially more dependent on interest.

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by DFCSG Comm Shares » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:48 pm

super_les_mcjannet wrote:
shawry wrote:How does that work converting? as that seems like the club giving the DFCSG money, then loaning it back?
I presume the converting is the share owners choice, basically you are giving your shares to DFCSG and they will give you community shares to the value of those shares in the football club.

They key thing I would assume is you can get your money back in the CBS shares, you pretty much can't in shares in the club.

It's a choice for those individuals with shares in the club.
Correct - no cash is changing hands when shares are being exchanged, it's simply a paper exercise but exchanging to community shares will allow the individual to withdraw their investment further down the line if they wish to and funds are available.

Just to be clear, we've taken advice from Supporters Direct throughout this process who are experts in these types of transactions and have fully qualified representatives to guide us.

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by shawry » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:10 pm

DFCSG Comm Shares wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
shawry wrote:How does that work converting? as that seems like the club giving the DFCSG money, then loaning it back?
I presume the converting is the share owners choice, basically you are giving your shares to DFCSG and they will give you community shares to the value of those shares in the football club.

They key thing I would assume is you can get your money back in the CBS shares, you pretty much can't in shares in the club.

It's a choice for those individuals with shares in the club.
Correct - no cash is changing hands when shares are being exchanged, it's simply a paper exercise but exchanging to community shares will allow the individual to withdraw their investment further down the line if they wish to and funds are available.

Just to be clear, we've taken advice from Supporters Direct throughout this process who are experts in these types of transactions and have fully qualified representatives to guide us.
Im not saying you are wrong, just that I didnt, and still dont really follow it, as I understood individual investors have already given the club money, these shares are being transferred across if they want, which means the club is 'losing' that investment, then they are borrowing the money from the DFCSG.

clearly its all above board, it just I cant actually follow the logic of how it works and thought someone might understand it better than me.

EDIT: Great that we are at 17k already though :) So if people transfer, does that bump the money closer to the 100k or is that separate? If its included will that be shown on the totaliser as soon as the transfer is done?

charlie

Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by charlie » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:22 pm

shawry wrote:
DFCSG Comm Shares wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
shawry wrote:How does that work converting? as that seems like the club giving the DFCSG money, then loaning it back?
I presume the converting is the share owners choice, basically you are giving your shares to DFCSG and they will give you community shares to the value of those shares in the football club.

They key thing I would assume is you can get your money back in the CBS shares, you pretty much can't in shares in the club.

It's a choice for those individuals with shares in the club.
Correct - no cash is changing hands when shares are being exchanged, it's simply a paper exercise but exchanging to community shares will allow the individual to withdraw their investment further down the line if they wish to and funds are available.

Just to be clear, we've taken advice from Supporters Direct throughout this process who are experts in these types of transactions and have fully qualified representatives to guide us.
Im not saying you are wrong, just that I didnt, and still dont really follow it, as I understood individual investors have already given the club money, these shares are being transferred across if they want, which means the club is 'losing' that investment, then they are borrowing the money from the DFCSG.

clearly its all above board, it just I cant actually follow the logic of how it works and thought someone might understand it better than me.

EDIT: Great that we are at 17k already though :) So if people transfer, does that bump the money closer to the 100k or is that separate? If its included will that be shown on the totaliser as soon as the transfer is done?
The way I'm reading it shares transferred won't be part of the total raised its just a paper exercise to gain the 90% ownership at this moment.

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by shawry » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:28 pm

charlie wrote:
shawry wrote:
DFCSG Comm Shares wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:
shawry wrote:How does that work converting? as that seems like the club giving the DFCSG money, then loaning it back?
I presume the converting is the share owners choice, basically you are giving your shares to DFCSG and they will give you community shares to the value of those shares in the football club.

They key thing I would assume is you can get your money back in the CBS shares, you pretty much can't in shares in the club.

It's a choice for those individuals with shares in the club.
Correct - no cash is changing hands when shares are being exchanged, it's simply a paper exercise but exchanging to community shares will allow the individual to withdraw their investment further down the line if they wish to and funds are available.

Just to be clear, we've taken advice from Supporters Direct throughout this process who are experts in these types of transactions and have fully qualified representatives to guide us.
Im not saying you are wrong, just that I didnt, and still dont really follow it, as I understood individual investors have already given the club money, these shares are being transferred across if they want, which means the club is 'losing' that investment, then they are borrowing the money from the DFCSG.

clearly its all above board, it just I cant actually follow the logic of how it works and thought someone might understand it better than me.

EDIT: Great that we are at 17k already though :) So if people transfer, does that bump the money closer to the 100k or is that separate? If its included will that be shown on the totaliser as soon as the transfer is done?
The way I'm reading it shares transferred won't be part of the total raised its just a paper exercise to gain the 90% ownership at this moment.
Ah ok, in that case, the club wont be borrowing the money back then, and that makes considerably more sense, thanks Charlie :)

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:42 pm

It just bumps up the DFC ownership percentage by DFCSG and costs the club nothing.

The 100k which is seperate will obviously cost the club as it is a loan from the DFCSG to the Club. Which as these payments each year are made is how DFCSG will be able to buy the community shares back from the individuals.

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by darlo reborn » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:48 pm

if you buy shares how do you claim tax back on it ?

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Re: DFCSG Community Shares

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:01 pm

darlo reborn wrote:if you buy shares how do you claim tax back on it ?
If DFCSG get to 90% then inidividuals members would need to claim the tax relief at the end of the tax year.

I believe it's a particular form you need to fill in. I will leave it for the experts to explain fully but the tax relief also will only happen if a large number of current DFC shareholders exchange these for CBS shares.

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