Its a fair point. It would have been helpful whene the deal is so transparent. Sadly like a lot of things in the corporate world regulation is left to the members rather than a central authority. In my experience, the FA always have this bad habit of acting retrospectively rather than being pro-active.dfc4me wrote:What frustrates me is that he was listed on the Evo-stik website at the end of August as a transfer from Cardiff to Darlo so clearance obviously needed yet no one at the league bothered to check it had been obtained before confirming his registration. If they are going to register players without checking that ALL the paperwork is in order then why even bother?
Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
The player does indeed but I'd be even wary of that tbh. Registration is one act where you have to be overly anal about it.Robbie Painter wrote:Its the club's responsibility to check, also the player fills in a form I believe. As this was only picked up once he joined Shildon then I'm assuming that the Shildon secretary was more thorough than ours which is very disappointing & probably very costly.dfc4me wrote:What frustrates me is that he was listed on the Evo-stik website at the end of August as a transfer from Cardiff to Darlo so clearance obviously needed yet no one at the league bothered to check it had been obtained before confirming his registration. If they are going to register players without checking that ALL the paperwork is in order then why even bother?
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
It seems the club and other info sources are very tight lipped about this situation at present.
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
The thing is, there really in no precedent for this, at least not that I can find anyway. Nearly every single ineligible player has been flagged after playing one game, the reason being is that as soon as the line-ups etc. are recorded and registered with the FA the error is picked up on. Somehow Bell managed to play 6 games and nobody picked up on the error. I don't think there is an example of a player consistently playing and nobody picking up on registration issues. Technically they should dock us 12 points, but I wonder if this has ever occurred before?
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
Altrincham were deducted 18 points in 2006.Yarblockos wrote:The thing is, there really in no precedent for this, at least not that I can find anyway. Nearly every single ineligible player has been flagged after playing one game, the reason being is that as soon as the line-ups etc. are recorded and registered with the FA the error is picked up on. Somehow Bell managed to play 6 games and nobody picked up on the error. I don't think there is an example of a player consistently playing and nobody picking up on registration issues. Technically they should dock us 12 points, but I wonder if this has ever occurred before?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 927718.stm
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
I think we should prepare ourselves for losing all the points gained when Bell played for us. Everything seems to point in that direction irrespective of any mitigation and this ludicrous Welsh/English FA/"international" clearance situation.
For me, anything less than that will be a bonus. It looks like it's just treated as an absolute offence with no real defence and it's up to each club to ensure every player they field is correctly cleared to play. They'll throw the book at us and they probably have to be seen to do so to be fair to the clubs that have suffered previously despite their protests.
For me, anything less than that will be a bonus. It looks like it's just treated as an absolute offence with no real defence and it's up to each club to ensure every player they field is correctly cleared to play. They'll throw the book at us and they probably have to be seen to do so to be fair to the clubs that have suffered previously despite their protests.
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
I can't see a way around it without looking as if we are being unfair to other clubs.LoidLucan wrote:I think we should prepare ourselves for losing all the points gained when Bell played for us. Everything seems to point in that direction irrespective of any mitigation and this ludicrous Welsh/English FA/"international" clearance situation.
For me, anything less than that will be a bonus. It looks like it's just treated as an absolute offence with no real defence and it's up to each club to ensure every player they field is correctly cleared to play. They'll throw the book at us and they probably have to be seen to do so to be fair to the clubs that have suffered previously despite their protests.
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
Robbie Painter beat me to it, Alty's 18 point deduction is the biggest I've ever seen for fielding an ineligible player. They were initially relegated from the Conference as a result of it but were then reprieved as Scarborough (who had been spared) were demoted to the Conference North for failing to get their finances in order if I recall rightly, a bizarre situation!Robbie Painter wrote:Altrincham were deducted 18 points in 2006.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 927718.stm
Also I remember Accrington Stanley were spared a points deduction in 2006/07 for a similar offence but were given a hefty fine. And of course the infamous Teves and Mascherano case at West Ham around the same time.
If the worse case scenario does happen it'd be massively frustrating and demoralising for everyone not least the players and management, however as has been said above it would not be necessarily ruinous. Unfortunately for me though, as awful as this is going to sound, the league has become an afterthought due to the situation with the ground.
As has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread there is a very real possibility of being relegated no matter what next season if we go up, which is unthinkable. It would totally undermine and undo all the hard work that has already been done from top to bottom in the last 3 years to get us where we are now.
Although for MG and the team it'll business as usual regardless of what is happening off the pitch, this next year or two could be the biggest challenge we've faced since 2012 however we have overcome some massive hurdles already, we'll just have to do it again.
love it! wrote:Considering we are Darlington 1883 I'm happy that we are named correctly
Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
Shildon played him. They didn't pick up on it either. They have been spared a points deducted though as it is league discretion. There does seems be suggestions that NL have deducted points before but there may have been slightly different circumstances. The Northern Prem precedent and Conference was set by Marine and Altrincham. PremierLeague precedent was set by Sunderland case.Robbie Painter wrote:Its the club's responsibility to check, also the player fills in a form I believe. As this was only picked up once he joined Shildon then I'm assuming that the Shildon secretary was more thorough than ours which is very disappointing & probably very costly.dfc4me wrote:What frustrates me is that he was listed on the Evo-stik website at the end of August as a transfer from Cardiff to Darlo so clearance obviously needed yet no one at the league bothered to check it had been obtained before confirming his registration. If they are going to register players without checking that ALL the paperwork is in order then why even bother?
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
Oh, we're screwed.Robbie Painter wrote:Altrincham were deducted 18 points in 2006.Yarblockos wrote:The thing is, there really in no precedent for this, at least not that I can find anyway. Nearly every single ineligible player has been flagged after playing one game, the reason being is that as soon as the line-ups etc. are recorded and registered with the FA the error is picked up on. Somehow Bell managed to play 6 games and nobody picked up on the error. I don't think there is an example of a player consistently playing and nobody picking up on registration issues. Technically they should dock us 12 points, but I wonder if this has ever occurred before?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 927718.stm
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
I can possibly understand why the club wish to do downplay this, but in my mind it's a big big problem - and I feel some kind announcement might of been in order.
This thread is the only info that appears to exist on the situation, and it's only written by us -- so how much of it is accurate? What's the club's viewpoint?
This thread is the only info that appears to exist on the situation, and it's only written by us -- so how much of it is accurate? What's the club's viewpoint?
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
With a hearing pending I would think the club is right not to comment.theoriginalfatcat wrote:I can possibly understand why the club wish to do downplay this, but in my mind it's a big big problem - and I feel some kind announcement might of been in order.
This thread is the only info that appears to exist on the situation, and it's only written by us -- so how much of it is accurate? What's the club's viewpoint?
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
Anyone know when we will find out the league has decided?
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
Am sure there will be an "opportunity" to raise this at the Club AGM this week?
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
Says who?darloforever wrote:A 12 point deduction !
Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
I get the smell of troll from this tosser.darloforever wrote:A 12 point deduction !
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
Here's an interesting post dug up from nonleaguezone. I'm clinging to the hope that each and every case is different.
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I'vScott-BSAFC
Post subject: Re: Marine deducted 3 points and fined
Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:07 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 9:08 am
Posts: 700
Location: Blyth, Northumberland
I speak to our General Manager often and he always checks on international clearance when we sign a player, regardless of if his previous club is English and even if the player himself says he doesn't require it. We have come across a few players who have been playing for other clubs in England without the necessary clearance. And often players don't even realise they require clearance. Some believe because they are English or have played for an English club before it's not required. You always check, regardless. Never take chances with things like! this, not ever. There's no excuse for not checking and you shouldn't rely on other clubs to do the checking for you. Just because they failed to do things properly, doesn't mean you can get away with it as well.
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I'vScott-BSAFC
Post subject: Re: Marine deducted 3 points and fined
Post Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:07 pm
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 9:08 am
Posts: 700
Location: Blyth, Northumberland
I speak to our General Manager often and he always checks on international clearance when we sign a player, regardless of if his previous club is English and even if the player himself says he doesn't require it. We have come across a few players who have been playing for other clubs in England without the necessary clearance. And often players don't even realise they require clearance. Some believe because they are English or have played for an English club before it's not required. You always check, regardless. Never take chances with things like! this, not ever. There's no excuse for not checking and you shouldn't rely on other clubs to do the checking for you. Just because they failed to do things properly, doesn't mean you can get away with it as well.
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
So coming up 3 weeks since it came to light that we have been playing an ineligible player. Over a month since the White incident against Marine. The FA/League are in no rush are they?
Hopefully we get an idea on Wednesday at the Fans Forum.
Hopefully we get an idea on Wednesday at the Fans Forum.
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
Extracts from Altincham official website.
JUST WHOSE RULES ARE THEY?
The Manchester Evening News has an intriguing quote from "an FA spokesman" in Friday's edition. The spokesman says, "We are waiting to hear from Altrincham regarding any appeal. Once we do, we will schedule a hearing as soon as possible. We told Altrincham they hadn't a case to answer because they hadn't breached FIFA or FA regulations, which is why we initially charged Accrington. The Conference have their own rules".
But last Monday night, the Conference's John Moules told us on Radio 5 [in words re-quoted in the MEN] that "Unfortunately, the rules that we have to go by are those rules laid down by the FA. We have to follow them religiously". He explicitly indicated the rules applied to Altrincham were "not the Conference's own rules". Indeed, as this website has quoted more than once previously, the first sentence of the Conference "Rule 6, Players, Status of Players" quite explicitly states "The FA rules will apply in respect of all matters concerning players".
So, if the FA is now openly saying Alty does not have "a case to answer because they hadn't breached FIFA or FA regulations" and if the Conference rule book says "The FA rules will apply in respect of all matters concerning players", and if Mr Moules has confirmed on national radio that the Conference rules are not his own league's rules but the FA's, why are we finishing an otherwise successful season in which we have won the points to stay in this division in a state of trepidation at an 18 point deduction? Or, have I missed something in all this?
AFTERMATH
The NL Paper reports on the Altrincham points deduction and quotes chairman Geoff Goodwin. Geoff says, "We will go down to Conference North and we will carry on. It will be business as usual for us. If no one has any common sense when making decisions like this, I cannot do anything about it. The whole affair is ridiculous. I object to being made to look like a criminal. In three years I have pulled this club back from a £700,0000 deficit and, in five months' time all debts will have been cleared. We've proved we were good enough to play in the Conference. Changes must be made to the way players are registered. Why don't they insist on football passports each containing a list of player's clubs over the past two years? There is no point taking any further legal action because they've made their minds up". The article repeats the FA statement that "During the hearing the club dropped all grounds for appeal other than that the penalty imposed by the Conference was excessive". This is "economical with the truth" which was that the club was required to drop its other grounds for appeal because the FA ruled them out of order.
The NL Paper's leader article on the subject bemoans the time taken to sort out the Alty case and the resulting disruption to football; it does not, however, pass any judgement on the rights and wrongs of the FA and Conference's treatment of Altrincham, who have paid a very large price for another club's failings.
Tony Sheldon, a correspondent in the NL Paper writes, "The members of the FA appeals board approved the 'holier than thou' decision of the Conference alumni that Altrincham should be hung out to dry... The FA, at least, did what they believed to be right, which is not what you can say about some members on the boards of Tamworth, Forest Green and Southport... Southport didn't say a lot publicly but often the latent are more dangerous than the overt. Forest Green were happy to let the football world know 'where they were coming from', but to me the most unpleasant behaviour came from Tamworth... So the only relegation this season [after Canvey's resignation] will be Altrincham - decided by little men in darkened rooms".
JUST WHOSE RULES ARE THEY?
The Manchester Evening News has an intriguing quote from "an FA spokesman" in Friday's edition. The spokesman says, "We are waiting to hear from Altrincham regarding any appeal. Once we do, we will schedule a hearing as soon as possible. We told Altrincham they hadn't a case to answer because they hadn't breached FIFA or FA regulations, which is why we initially charged Accrington. The Conference have their own rules".
But last Monday night, the Conference's John Moules told us on Radio 5 [in words re-quoted in the MEN] that "Unfortunately, the rules that we have to go by are those rules laid down by the FA. We have to follow them religiously". He explicitly indicated the rules applied to Altrincham were "not the Conference's own rules". Indeed, as this website has quoted more than once previously, the first sentence of the Conference "Rule 6, Players, Status of Players" quite explicitly states "The FA rules will apply in respect of all matters concerning players".
So, if the FA is now openly saying Alty does not have "a case to answer because they hadn't breached FIFA or FA regulations" and if the Conference rule book says "The FA rules will apply in respect of all matters concerning players", and if Mr Moules has confirmed on national radio that the Conference rules are not his own league's rules but the FA's, why are we finishing an otherwise successful season in which we have won the points to stay in this division in a state of trepidation at an 18 point deduction? Or, have I missed something in all this?
AFTERMATH
The NL Paper reports on the Altrincham points deduction and quotes chairman Geoff Goodwin. Geoff says, "We will go down to Conference North and we will carry on. It will be business as usual for us. If no one has any common sense when making decisions like this, I cannot do anything about it. The whole affair is ridiculous. I object to being made to look like a criminal. In three years I have pulled this club back from a £700,0000 deficit and, in five months' time all debts will have been cleared. We've proved we were good enough to play in the Conference. Changes must be made to the way players are registered. Why don't they insist on football passports each containing a list of player's clubs over the past two years? There is no point taking any further legal action because they've made their minds up". The article repeats the FA statement that "During the hearing the club dropped all grounds for appeal other than that the penalty imposed by the Conference was excessive". This is "economical with the truth" which was that the club was required to drop its other grounds for appeal because the FA ruled them out of order.
The NL Paper's leader article on the subject bemoans the time taken to sort out the Alty case and the resulting disruption to football; it does not, however, pass any judgement on the rights and wrongs of the FA and Conference's treatment of Altrincham, who have paid a very large price for another club's failings.
Tony Sheldon, a correspondent in the NL Paper writes, "The members of the FA appeals board approved the 'holier than thou' decision of the Conference alumni that Altrincham should be hung out to dry... The FA, at least, did what they believed to be right, which is not what you can say about some members on the boards of Tamworth, Forest Green and Southport... Southport didn't say a lot publicly but often the latent are more dangerous than the overt. Forest Green were happy to let the football world know 'where they were coming from', but to me the most unpleasant behaviour came from Tamworth... So the only relegation this season [after Canvey's resignation] will be Altrincham - decided by little men in darkened rooms".
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
So - does anyone have any new info re this possible points deduction thing ?
When is the meeting scheduled for ?
When is the meeting scheduled for ?
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
No date has been set as far as I know, to learn our fate. We are just waiting to hear the outcome from the FA.
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
It's not the FA, it is the Evostik that will decide on the punishment.Darlo_Pete wrote:No date has been set as far as I know, to learn our fate. We are just waiting to hear the outcome from the FA.
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
.
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
What's with all the full stop posts from theoriginalfatcat?
Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
I suspect he was trying to bump things above all the official news posts. Which will no longer be necessary...HarryCharltonsCat wrote:What's with all the full stop posts from theoriginalfatcat?
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Re: Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled
mikkyx wrote:I suspect he was trying to bump things above all the official news posts. Which will no longer be necessary...HarryCharltonsCat wrote:What's with all the full stop posts from theoriginalfatcat?
Yes, sorry bout that! In a fit of pique I moved 6 posts.
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