Waste Auckland V Darlington FC Cancelled

[poppyfield]

... and we'd still have our awesome squad of players
... and we'd still have our incredible support.
... and we'd still be scoring goals for fun and winning matches
... and we'd still be pissing against the wind but winning the battle ....

Let em do their worst ... Darlo's Darlo .... if you know what I mean...

This.
Our club is like the Rocky movie, we keep getting smashed down, but we get up and keep on punching. 'Adriannnnnn'

[Neil Johnson]

Storm in a teacup?

Is the following true?

Bell played in 6 league games for Darlo, but essentially he was a 20 year old who didn't know the rules of international clearances, hardly surprising when he was only a trialist in friendlies anyway.

Doncaster didn't pass on any relevant info. about Cardiff City

Cardiff City are a Football League club, who don't play in Welsh competitions anyway and don't qualify as a Welsh club in international competitions.

[lo36789]

The precedent set by EvoStik Prem is a points deduction (Marine), regardless of going to clubs before hand in England.

But at the end of that day what will be will be. I don't think there is much value in us winning the league this season. I actually wouldn't really blame the league if they deducted the points it would at least be consistent.

I do think the FA need to review the process though it does seem that these things get missed more often than they should.

[theoriginalfatcat]

lo, I'm disagreeing with you a lot lately-nothing personal

I don't think there is much value in us winning the league this season.

We have to aim for top spot. It's important to keep the players and fans interested and motivated.

I actually wouldn't really blame the league if they deducted the points it would at least be consistent.

Every single case will be different though. Spen will know-he's a legal expert.

[MKDarlo]

Do you need international clearance if signing from Cardiff, Swansea or Wrexham - are they not members of the FA rather than the FAW?

If we are in a similar position to Marine (although thier payer came form an FAW club) it seems a precedent has been set

Although as this is the FA they will relegate us to the Dog and Gun Tuesday night 5 aside league brought to you in association with Barons Outdoors and fine us £4.7bn! The twats! #fuckthefa!

[divas]

As absolutely fucking ludicrous as it sounds the Welsh teams under the FA are under FAW even though they play in England.

It's absolutely nuts and needs looking at ASAP. If we're going to allow Welsh teams to play in our league then surely they have to be affiliated to the English FA.

The whole point of international clearance is to find out if the player has any legacy suspensions / unpaid fines from the previous club's national FA.

If the English FA doesn't know this information about clubs that play in their leagues then it's absolute madness.

[divas]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/foot ... ay-1894945

The FA should have simply told the FAW that they would remove the 2 clubs from the English league if their demands weren't met.

[MKDarlo]

As absolutely fucking ludicrous as it sounds the Welsh teams under the FA are under FAW even though they play in England.

It's absolutely nuts and needs looking at ASAP. If we're going to allow Welsh teams to play in our league then surely they have to be affiliated to the English FA.

The whole point of international clearance is to find out if the player has any legacy suspensions / unpaid fines from the previous club's national FA.

If the English FA doesn't know this information about clubs that play in their leagues then it's absolute madness.

I did not know that! Seems mad. But then we should have checked I guess. Caveat emptor and all that

[lo36789]

lo, I'm disagreeing with you a lot lately-nothing personal

I don't think there is much value in us winning the league this season.

We have to aim for top spot. It's important to keep the players and fans interested and motivated.

No offence taken wouldn't worry.

I dunno I think a promotion then potential forced relegation a year later would be a real kick in the teeth. Hey I obviously agree that we need to in it to win it every time we step onto a pitch, who knows though a further FA punishment might galvanise some support and potentially prevents a real nervousness over the ground situation.

[footifan]

I have been saying for years the Welsh should not be allowed to play in the English leagues... If they want their own national team they should play in a Welsh league.
How the f**k are they allowed it both ways.

How can a WELSH team represent England in UEFA competitions... Like Swansea the other season... yet have a Welsh team entered too.. FFS

If it is the case, the very least they should be under FA sanction... That would avoid issues like the present potential farce. GRRRRR

[theoriginalfatcat]

The situation is this - Darlo have up until Monday night to hand in their paperwork (IE documents and explanations relating to the situation) then the decision makers will meet at a later date and decide what punishment will be dished out.

I'm informed that they can basically do what they like, to a minimum of nothing, all the way to a maximum point deduction of 12!

My personal view is that anything above a small points deduction would potentially knacker our season and be unfair. Unfair in the way of the punishment not fitting the crime. The crime appearing to be in this case, a possible error.

This is leaving to one side the silliness surrounding the Welsh/English thing.

[THE PRINCE OF WALES]

The Welsh teams have been playing in the English system for over 100 years ,there are other countries like Andorra, San Marino whos clubs play in the Spanish and Italian leagues.

[Darlo_Pete]

Re-build Offa's Dyke and deport all the Welsh.

[footifan]

The Welsh teams have been playing in the English system for over 100 years ,there are other countries like Andorra, San Marino whos clubs play in the Spanish and Italian leagues.

Correct Prince of Wales BUT :

Only 1 team from Andorra :
FC Andorra play in Spanish leagues system BUT are registered with the Spanish FA
& can NOT qualify for Andorra's place in the qualifying round of UEFA competition, that is reserved for the Amateur teams that play in the Andorra league system.

Likewise:
Only San Marino Calco, play in the Italian system BUT are registered with the Italian FA.
They also cannot qualify for the UEFA competitions of their home country...

Any Spanish or Italian team signing players for the above 2 teams in their league system would not need international clearance as they are already registered by the relevant FA...

Just like English club Berwick Rangers have to be affiliated to the Scottish FA not the FA to play in the Scottish pyramid...

WE should be using the same system if playing in English Pyramid...IE Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham etc. players should be registered the THE FA not the Welsh FA.

It is just the Wales FA wanting to hang onto fees, income etc from Wales's larger clubs... If so I think they should play in a Welsh league.

Having said that all of the Welsh clubs in the English pyramid are allowed to play in BOTH the Welsh FA Cup & The FA Cup...( Although Swansea , Cardiff & Colwyn declined to enter this season)...potentially to play as winners in the Welsh spot in the UEFA cup competition.
To make it even more laughable Welsh league team TNS are wanting to play in the FA Cup also, as the Welsh league champions & they are not even in the English pyramid.

Talk about having your cake & eating it

It is a farce... kick em all out, let the Wales FA have them all...

[spen666]

Cardiff, Swansea etc can't take the Welsh UEFA competition places now. They used to but now can't.

The whole situation is a bit of a mix up and needs resolving re who is responsible and eligible for what.

There has been at least 1 court case over the issue of Welsh clubs in English competitions when the Welsh FA tried to force all Welsh clubs out of English leagues into the newly formed Welsh leagues in the I think early 90s. It resulted for a time in teams like Colwyn Bay having to play home games in England!

[MikeinBlack2]

The situation is this - Darlo have up until Monday night to hand in their paperwork (IE documents and explanations relating to the situation) then the decision makers will meet at a later date and decide what punishment will be dished out.

I'm informed that they can basically do what they like, to a minimum of nothing, all the way to a maximum point deduction of 12!

My personal view is that anything above a small points deduction would potentially knacker our season and be unfair. Unfair in the way of the punishment not fitting the crime. The crime appearing to be in this case, a possible error.

This is leaving to one side the silliness surrounding the Welsh/English thing.

12pts is slightly better than 13pts though. Is the final decision on deductions up to the FA or do they simply recommend an award to the Evo-Stik? If Evo have the final say then we are in with a chance of some sort of common sense decision or compromise resulting in a lesser deduction etc maybe?

[joejaques]

Re-build Offa's Dyke and deport all the Welsh.

Would make it even more difficult for me to get to games.

[divas]

The situation is this - Darlo have up until Monday night to hand in their paperwork (IE documents and explanations relating to the situation) then the decision makers will meet at a later date and decide what punishment will be dished out.

I'm informed that they can basically do what they like, to a minimum of nothing, all the way to a maximum point deduction of 12!

My personal view is that anything above a small points deduction would potentially knacker our season and be unfair. Unfair in the way of the punishment not fitting the crime. The crime appearing to be in this case, a possible error.

This is leaving to one side the silliness surrounding the Welsh/English thing.

12pts is slightly better than 13pts though. Is the final decision on deductions up to the FA or do they simply recommend an award to the Evo-Stik? If Evo have the final say then we are in with a chance of some sort of common sense decision or compromise resulting in a lesser deduction etc maybe?

It's up to the league to set punishment. Given Bell never completed 90 minutes you'd hope for some leniency. I could just about deal with up to 6 points

[Quakerz]

I could deal with 13 points. We might have to. It wouldn't even ruin our season - yes it would ruin our chance of the title but I think Salford will eventually run away with it anyway. We'd certainly still have every chance of grabbing 5th, and getting into the play offs.

And as I've said many times before, until the ground situation is resolved it might be pretty pointless going for promotion anyway.

[darlo reborn]

Have to agree would be gutted if we won the league and went up only to get relegated no matter where we finished the next season
think that would hit crowds more than anything knowing we could not go anywhere up the leagues

[divas]

I'm quite relaxed about being able to play in the Conference North next season IF we gain promotion

[AIDO]

... I don't believe for one minute that there'd be a time or situation when Martin Gray and his players would simply amble through the season because of what "might" or "might not" happen. Promotion has to be a target end of. We just don't know what might just be round the corner ............

[princes town]

It's an unfortunate oversight. These things happen as even local football secretaries will tell you. But checking a players eligibility involved one phone call, perhaps 2, to the Welsh fa. We don't have a leg to stand on. Love to bash the fa but can't on this one.

[lo36789]

At what point do you say there is responsibility with others though. What if prior to playing for Cardiff Bell had loans spells in NI, Scotland and ROI should we be calling up all of those FAs as well just to be sure - because clearly you can't rely on anyone else to do their job correctly (Doncaster in this case). Given we submit a registration form for the player why do we need to call up as well and ask "is this player cleared to play?" - if it is something that needs to be done for players moving from English clubs to English clubs then surely the actual step should be mandatory as part of registration?

Ultimately it is in the FAs best interests to know that all players playing in their jurisdiction aren't banned.

[m62exile]

The situation is this - Darlo have up until Monday night to hand in their paperwork (IE documents and explanations relating to the situation) then the decision makers will meet at a later date and decide what punishment will be dished out.

I'm informed that they can basically do what they like, to a minimum of nothing, all the way to a maximum point deduction of 12!

My personal view is that anything above a small points deduction would potentially knacker our season and be unfair. Unfair in the way of the punishment not fitting the crime. The crime appearing to be in this case, a possible error.

This is leaving to one side the silliness surrounding the Welsh/English thing.

12pts is slightly better than 13pts though. Is the final decision on deductions up to the FA or do they simply recommend an award to the Evo-Stik? If Evo have the final say then we are in with a chance of some sort of common sense decision or compromise resulting in a lesser deduction etc maybe?

It's up to the league to set punishment. Given Bell never completed 90 minutes you'd hope for some leniency. I could just about deal with up to 6 points

I might be being wildly optimistic but for the manner of the alleged transgression that still sounds like a harsh penalty. The player wasn't suspended and was registered. If either of those weren't the case I'd expect to lose all the points, but this is quite a bit different.

[Darlofan97]

I will agree with m62exile here. I too am hoping for an outcome where common sense will be applied first. It isn't as if Bell was/is banned or suspended from football. So had the check actually been made (and there could possibly be grounds to assume that we didn't have to make this check) then he would have been eligible to play, playing in the exact same matches, with the exact same contribution with the same results. There wouldn't actually have been a materialistic change had a check been made and international clearance obtained from FAW.

Worryingly though, previous precedents set by the league (Marine) shows that common sense isn't always applied.

[divas]

Neither was the lad at Marine, he also came from a Welsh team playing in an English league and had been at other clubs in between. Sadly the precedent has already been set for punishment

[princes town]

At what point do you say there is responsibility with others though. What if prior to playing for Cardiff Bell had loans spells in NI, Scotland and ROI should we be calling up all of those FAs as well just to be sure - because clearly you can't rely on anyone else to do their job correctly (Doncaster in this case). Given we submit a registration form for the player why do we need to call up as well and ask "is this player cleared to play?" - if it is something that needs to be done for players moving from English clubs to English clubs then surely the actual step should be mandatory as part of registration?

Ultimately it is in the FAs best interests to know that all players playing in their jurisdiction aren't banned.

Of course you are right from a common sense position. I'm only highllighting my own experiences as a club secretary where I was told off for basically what was lack of due dligence by others. Actually, purposeful negligence. A slightly different example but I signed a player who had been banned and despite the former club and the player lying to me about 'any issues' I took the punishment for playing him before his ban ended. The FA don't care about moral accountability more somebody to blame and that invariably rests with the last unsuspecting club in the chain. It taught me a harsh lesson which was to make phone call to Durham FA everytime a player I signed and get something on paper. Of course, i didn't have to deal with international clearance but it was a possibility. The FA are generally very helpful with these administrative issues if you get the right person. It is a lesson to be learned and I very much sympathise with our own secretary on this.

[dfc4me]

What frustrates me is that he was listed on the Evo-stik website at the end of August as a transfer from Cardiff to Darlo so clearance obviously needed yet no one at the league bothered to check it had been obtained before confirming his registration. If they are going to register players without checking that ALL the paperwork is in order then why even bother?

[Robbie Painter]

What frustrates me is that he was listed on the Evo-stik website at the end of August as a transfer from Cardiff to Darlo so clearance obviously needed yet no one at the league bothered to check it had been obtained before confirming his registration. If they are going to register players without checking that ALL the paperwork is in order then why even bother?

Its the club's responsibility to check, also the player fills in a form I believe. As this was only picked up once he joined Shildon then I'm assuming that the Shildon secretary was more thorough than ours which is very disappointing & probably very costly.