Blackwell meadows

[Dfc Dfc Dfc]

Update on the end of the Northern Echo
Seems we didn't withdraw

"Martin Jesper, chief executive of Darlington FC, strongly denied the football club had withdraw from negotiations.

He said he backed Mrs Chapman's suggestion of working with the council to demonstrate to the rugby club's "

[shawry]

Personally would like us to approach Mowden - even if its only a short term fix, it will boost our attendances by a few hundred..

Id have my doubts considering the amount of people that said they would never go back there.

[shawry]

Update on the end of the Northern Echo
Seems we didn't withdraw

"Martin Jesper, chief executive of Darlington FC, strongly denied the football club had withdraw from negotiations.

He said he backed Mrs Chapman's suggestion of working with the council to demonstrate to the rugby club's "

We haven't withdrawn, but they think we have..somehow this really doesn't look like its going to pan out

[Fibonacci0112358]

Personally would like us to approach Mowden - even if its only a short term fix, it will boost our attendances by a few hundred..

Id have my doubts considering the amount of people that said they would never go back there.

The other half was speaking to a board member about a week ago, it's highly unlikely anyway.

They don't particularly want us there, and they certainly don't need us there!

[shawry]

Personally would like us to approach Mowden - even if its only a short term fix, it will boost our attendances by a few hundred..

Id have my doubts considering the amount of people that said they would never go back there.

The other half was speaking to a board member about a week ago, it's highly unlikely anyway.

They don't particularly want us there, and they certainly don't need us there!

Yeah, I implied as much in another post too. TBH, if it was at all possible Id rather we just build our own ground (which obviously we cant afford), even if reach agreement with the rugby club we are still only a lodger

[Darlobp]

Lets see what happens as I think Darlington rugby club need us as much as we need them, but until they feel the pinch again its going to be hard to convince them. Now they have gone fully amateur and ran by volunteers they could limp along for years without needing our revenue.

We need at least to be in control of BM on our match days and be able to keep all the revenue generated from these games, without this then we are never going to rebuild our club and we may as well not bother with BM and concentrate our efforts on getting promoted back to the conference whilst we look at building our own ground from scratch like FCMU

If BM is out and the Arena is out this leaves only Eastbourne or the RA with any semblance of sporting infrastructure.

[charlie]

The RA is unsuitable , not even in the running

[Darlobp]

TBH I cant even think of a council green field site that we could build on, and once a private land owner sees DFC wanting land then the price will go up five fold.

Most the green field sites in Darlo are either for housing or commerce its going to be a hard search. The good thing about Eastbourne is its got some infrastructure and will have the planning permission for sporting use that will help if we were to use it and build the stands.

[Darlobp]

Although knowing our luck the football club will have to play second fiddle to a bloke hossing a javelin about and need to rearrange our games round him.

[Comfortably_numb]

Lets see what happens as I think Darlington rugby club need us as much as we need them, but until they feel the pinch again its going to be hard to convince them. Now they have gone fully amateur and ran by volunteers they could limp along for years without needing our revenue.

We need at least to be in control of BM on our match days and be able to keep all the revenue generated from these games, without this then we are never going to rebuild our club and we may as well not bother with BM and concentrate our efforts on getting promoted back to the conference whilst we look at building our own ground from scratch like FCMU

If BM is out and the Arena is out this leaves only Eastbourne or the RA with any semblance of sporting infrastructure.

Didn't someone mention Eastbourne as an option a few days ago?

[JE93]

TBH I cant even think of a council green field site that we could build on, and once a private land owner sees DFC wanting land then the price will go up five fold.

Most the green field sites in Darlo are either for housing or commerce its going to be a hard search. The good thing about Eastbourne is its got some infrastructure and will have the planning permission for sporting use that will help if we were to use it and build the stands.

RA can't work, there is no parking around the ground and no room to develop inside the ground to put in what we would need going forwards.

Eastbourne would never work, although I grant you there is infrastructure there, the positioning just isn't practical. Access issues because you can only get in and out one way through the housing estate. Can't imagine the residents would be too happy with that every other week, added to the fact we'd have to send heavy machinery down there too to make necessary ground improvements. We'd be putting in a lot of money to somewhere it would never be practical to stay long term. Having an athletics track around a football pitch sucks every bit of atmosphere out of the ground.

In reality it's BM or years at Bishop hoping for a mixture of fundraising and a dream FA cup tie to fund a move to build our own ground, which working on the basis of what other teams have paid to build grounds would be at least a few million.

[princes town]

Now they have gone fully amateur and ran by volunteers they could limp along for years without needing our revenue.

That is no easy task. It is alright wanting a volunteer structure but another thing to implement it.

The AGM provides a perfect opportunity once and for all to get a decision made. I have my reservations about sports hubs as I don't think they are the panacea people think. The closest one to us would probably be the Norton set up but I don't think it is perfect by any standard. It is hard to balance autonomy, identity and co-operation with clubs that have different characteristics.

[princes town]

Personally would like us to approach Mowden - even if its only a short term fix, it will boost our attendances by a few hundred..

Id have my doubts considering the amount of people that said they would never go back there.

The other half was speaking to a board member about a week ago, it's highly unlikely anyway.

They don't particularly want us there, and they certainly don't need us there!

Yeah, I implied as much in another post too. TBH, if it was at all possible Id rather we just build our own ground (which obviously we cant afford), even if reach agreement with the rugby club we are still only a lodger

yep that is the point. we would still be a lodger and hence a junior partner.

[notgnilrad]

Lets see what happens as I think Darlington rugby club need us as much as we need them, but until they feel the pinch again its going to be hard to convince them. Now they have gone fully amateur and ran by volunteers they could limp along for years without needing our revenue.

We need at least to be in control of BM on our match days and be able to keep all the revenue generated from these games, without this then we are never going to rebuild our club and we may as well not bother with BM and concentrate our efforts on getting promoted back to the conference whilst we look at building our own ground from scratch like FCMU

If BM is out and the Arena is out this leaves only Eastbourne or the RA with any semblance of sporting infrastructure.

Didn't someone mention Eastbourne as an option a few days ago?

The only difference between BM and Eastbourne is they have a bar and facilities at BM, Eastbourne have changing rooms also so it just needs stands and seats which is what we needed at BM anyway, can anyone else think of what we would need?

[JE93]

You'd never get permission for us to play at Eastbourne. Access is down a residential road that normally has cars parked either side which makes it 1 card wide. The car park would need massive expansion. We would need to build changing rooms inside the 'stadium'. And stands, and turnstiles, and fencing, and toilets, we'd have to work out a way to be able to segregrate fans. And im pretty sure we would need to have a clubhouse to?

No chance of it being Eastbourne. Its not suitable and we don't have anywhere near the kind of money to make it suitable.

[ArmchairDiehard]

Money won't be an object when I bring home the Euromillions tonight

[lo36789]

The only difference between BM and Eastbourne is they have a bar and facilities at BM, Eastbourne have changing rooms also so it just needs stands and seats which is what we needed at BM anyway, can anyone else think of what we would need?

That is quite a big difference. Hospitality facilities are a requirement of the league and also the changing rooms are too far away.

If we went to Eastbourne we'd have to bring back the Olympic village, and we'd need to build the hospitality. That is on top of everything else.

You'd never get permission for us to play at Eastbourne. Access is down a residential road that normally has cars parked either side which makes it 1 card wide. The car park would need massive expansion.

Not sure I buy this mind. Do a satellite view of Grimsby's ground. I can't even see a car park half the size of the one at Eastbourne and the whole area is residential. Doesn't the school which was built on Hundens have a car park as well?

This one only crossed my mind when on a satellite image, but what are the facilities/changing like at Darlington college (as in how close to the pitch are they?) and are there catering facilities inside the buildings?

Clearly there would be a lot more to build around the pitch...

[Vodka_Vic]

Don't be too sure that one side 'walking away from negotiations' means an end to it all. It is a well known negotiating tool to walk away and wait for the other side to come back. In an earlier thread I likened this process to selling a house. Someone puts an offer in which is low, you reject it and later on they come back with an offer which meets you in the middle and both parties feel they have gained something. Mike Wilkinson is well known to want this deal to go through.
I know the club want to get everything right before they move, but we may have to give away more concessions than we originally wanted. After all, history doesn't count in our favour and I'm sure as an entity we are disliked by many, despite that being other peoples' fault. The key question is, how big are these concessions, and what are they. That is something we're not going to find out until it's sorted one way or another.

[JE93]

I know it wouldn't happen but i think the best solution at the moment would be for both sides to go public with what they are putting on the table. See what DFC offered and see what concessions the rugby club want us to make. Id also be interested to see what the financial models of the club say on the move back to town. Obviously the club wants to keep as much of its own money as possibke for on and off field budgets but would give us an idea of the wiggle room we have regarding finances

[TDS]

With Martin coming out and saying nobody has withdrawn from negotiations it reads like a bit of mind games. Let's look at the situation, money invested already, grants accepted and plans drawn up and a severe lack of anywhere else in darlo to utilise. This means we may have to accept to bending over a little more than we would like.

A deal is clearly far from dead and it's possibly a case of the poor rugby club knowing they hold more of the cards than we do. Which is acceptable. Letting a rumour like signing up for HP for another two years may have helped our cause as the rugby club may struggle to operate that long if speculation is to be believed.

We have done a lot more in the past than make the short journey to HP for this football club and if another 6 months is required then so be it.


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[onewayup]

I wonder if the land behind Cummings is still available to us .we would have to start from scratch in building the ground but it would be the football clubs own place,just thinking out loud.

[JE93]

I wonder if the land behind Cummings is still available to us .we would have to start from scratch in building the ground but it would be the football clubs own place, thinking out loud.

I'd love to think we could have our own place and build it. But to put it in perspective HP cost in the reigon of 2 million to build and we would need something bigger than that. Just not feasible to think we'd have that money barring some divine intervention

[lo36789]

as you say it is about having a strong bargaining position.

I would much prefer to share with the rugby club than go anywhere else there are good facilities and the plans look really nice. If we don't have an alternative our bargaining position is quite weak, it would be good if we had a really realistic alternative to say "well if you don't agree it might take us a year or two but we're gonna go here".

Our minimum is laid out by the FA which goes back to that car parking point actually...
"A. Parking facilities must be provided for directors, with a minimum number of 4 places for visiting directors. There must be safe parking arrangements for the visiting team's coach. Unmarked parking facilities must also be provided for the match officials. Car parking within the boundary of the ground on match days may not be acceptable."

That is for level A the top standard. B-H is simply "there should be adequate car parking facilities at or adjacent to the ground."

[MikeinBlack2]

I get the feeling that the Rugby Club feel that they are being made to look like a junior partner so to speak due to us having more press etc and being more vocal about the move. Their Chairman obviously thinks that he should be the lead player in the Sports Hub, so why don't we just let him be that? They must realise that our options, especially in the short/medium term, are limited regarding a move back to Darlo so are playing on that to gain as much of an 'advantage' for the Rugby Club as possible. I think that we will have to compromise a bit from our original ideas but that common ground will be reached before too long. If the talks do indeed stall much longer then frustrations will come to the fore and we could well spoil a very good plan for both parties.

[dfc4me]

Just out of interest, is the £75k grant the rugby club received dependant on the ground share going ahead and would it have to be returned should the deal fall through?
From what I have heard, as soon as the grant money was received the rugby club started spending on expensive club house refurbishment. Of course that may just be a coincidence !

[Spyman]

I get the feeling that the Rugby Club feel that they are being made to look like a junior partner so to speak due to us having more press etc and being more vocal about the move. Their Chairman obviously thinks that he should be the lead player in the Sports Hub, so why don't we just let him be that? They must realise that our options, especially in the short/medium term, are limited regarding a move back to Darlo so are playing on that to gain as much of an 'advantage' for the Rugby Club as possible. I think that we will have to compromise a bit from our original ideas but that common ground will be reached before too long. If the talks do indeed stall much longer then frustrations will come to the fore and we could well spoil a very good plan for both parties.

Of course the press coverage will be about the football club as we are aiming to move home and have far greater support - but that should be spun to the benefit of the rugby club.

This is supposed to be about creating a joined-up sports hub for the town, and every sport should have equal representation in that regardless of the number of fans that turn up to watch that team.

[divas]

Just out of interest, is the £75k grant the rugby club received dependant on the ground share going ahead and would it have to be returned should the deal fall through?
From what I have heard, as soon as the grant money was received the rugby club started spending on expensive club house refurbishment. Of course that may just be a coincidence !

Yes I've wondered the very same. Would be good if we could find out.

As far as I'm aware 2 grants were awarded. 1 for the clubhouse refurbishment and 1 for the car park. I believe the car park grant was awarded to the council rather than the rugby club though.

[Darlobp]

Yes Lo is right about access, with the addition of a small section of road you could gain full highway access from the Hundens lane/St Aidens junction and not affect any residential streets, the site is self contained and could be fenced in a way to keep crowds away from the narrow streets.

At first the hospitality would either need to be the Olympic village of portacabins of we construct one main stand with all the facilities in a bit like HP, the debate would be whether to keep the running track or would the loss of this mean paying back of sport England grants ?

[JE93]

the debate would be whether to keep the running track or would the loss of this mean paying back of sport England grants ?

Dont see how this is a debate? We dont own this land we have absolutely no say about the running track, it would stay. Think this is part of the problem as to why some at the rugby club dont want us. We are coming in as the outsiders we dont own this land and we have limited funds. And in my personal opinion I'd rather play at HP than with a running track around the pitch. Gateshead Int stadium and Don Valley when Rotherham played there, athletics tracks are the most soulless places to play football

[Darlo_Pete]

As stated before I fell that a further statement from the club would be constructive and hopefully it would go to alleviate some fans worries about what is happening. A fair bit seems to have happened since the last update.