Hartlepool Utd

Robbie Painter · Post by **Robbie Painter** » Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:57 pm

I see after a few hours of euphoria reality is now setting in on The Bunker as they ask just who are new owners and what is their motive for buying Hartlepool.

Some of the connections thrown up really don't look good.

BaronsCourtQuaker · Post by **BaronsCourtQuaker** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:19 am

Saying this from a point of view that I don't know who these new owners are nor their motives and intentions I actually find it all rather sad.

Sad to the extend that in the current game 100+ years of history around the UK are just seemingly thrown from one owner to the next with thousands of fans clinging on to the hope that there owners are the savior.

It really is hard to see that these 'saviors' are getting involved with 3rd, 4th and 5th tier clubs for anything but there own selfish interests. They will 95% of the time loan the club money under the illusion of not wanting it back but at the end of the day when their tenure is over and push comes to shove they will want some or all of that loan back.

What happened to the days of the club being run by your local successful business man who got involved simply as a custodian of the club on behalf of the town. With the success or lack of success coming based on sensible finances and results on the pitch.

Were at the point where unless you are financially backed beyond your means you have no chance of competing. There is the odd example to buck the trend Wycombe and Exeter I think are the top 'fan owned clubs' but its hard to see football being sustainable and yet nothing seems to be done about it nor a care given.

I cant help think that after the initial couple of months with the new owners claiming "were here to get this club back where it belongs".... "we want to engage with the fans and the local community".... "were not here for our own good but to help benefit the local area" that in 1, 2 or 5 years time it will all come crashing back down and the scenario will play out again.

We may be down the pyramid but its nice to think we won't ever be in this sort of situation again and reminds me how thankful we should be to those volunteers helping with the club.

Bogratsteve · Post by **Bogratsteve** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:48 am

Spot on

Mr_Tibbs · Post by **Mr_Tibbs** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:52 am

BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:Sad to the extend that in the current game 100+ years of history around the UK are just seemingly thrown from one owner to the next with thousands of fans clinging on to the hope that there owners are the savior.

We were like that when Paul Wildes came riding in, ready to throw all of our fan-owned plans to one side for the sake of a rich owner. I think it's only natural - it's a lot easier on the fans.

theoriginalfatcat · Post by **theoriginalfatcat** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:56 am

BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:We may be down the pyramid but its nice to think we won't ever be in this sort of situation again and reminds me how thankful we should be to those volunteers helping with the club.

Brilliant post

I for one can't wait to see the back of our lower league exile - but our endless cycle of dodgy owners seems to have finished.

spen666 · Post by **spen666** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:23 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:...

I for one can't wait to see the back of our lower league exile - but our endless cycle of dodgy owners seems to have finished.

The cycle of dodgy owners is only finished as long as the fans remain vigilant and are not lured by the false promises and fools gold offered by some prospective white knight.

Some people are always tempted by the great promises made by prospective owners. Ironicaslly, the more successful the fan run club is, the more attractive a proposition it is in some ways for a takeover.

It would be brilliant if there was a way to prevent all clubs being asset stripped by unscrupulous or incompetent owners.

theoriginalfatcat · Post by **theoriginalfatcat** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:31 am

Darlogramps wrote:New owners TMH. Stands for The Monkey Hangers?

It just has to

To much of a coincidence not to.

spen666 wrote:

Ironicaslly, the more successful the fan run club is, the more attractive a proposition it is in some ways for a takeover.

I'm sure that we're set up in such a way that we can never be subject to a "takeover"

al_quaker · Post by **al_quaker** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:41 am

IOR have written off the debt the club owed to the owners. All £14m of it.

https://twitter.com/loughlinecho/status ... 8925150208

Compare and contrast to events in our recent history....

Of course I'd swap league positions with them in a heartbeat, but I can't say I miss the days of being under the whim of an owner. This TMH lot could be great, they could be dodgy. Thankfully, the days of us wondering that about owners should be over.

Spyman · Post by **Spyman** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:43 am

I'm speculating, but I find it hard to believe these new owners have any other pan than to acquire the stadium/land from the council and then try to develop it - exactly as Houghton tried to do.

Assuming the Council continue to dig their heels in (quite rightly), I can see it going exactly the same way as Houghton's reign at Darlo went. Toys out of pram, club unable to pay suppliers and players etc.

HarryCharltonsCat · Post by **HarryCharltonsCat** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:20 pm

Spyman wrote:I'm speculating, but I find it hard to believe these new owners have any other pan than to acquire the stadium/land from the council and then try to develop it - exactly as Houghton tried to do.

Assuming the Council continue to dig their heels in (quite rightly), I can see it going exactly the same way as Houghton's reign at Darlo went. Toys out of pram, club unable to pay suppliers and players etc.

Seeing as how IOR couldn't get the council to budge, despite having been involved at the club for a fairly long time by current football standards, then i'm struggling to see why a new company would feel that they had any greater chance of acquiring the stadium.

spen666 · Post by **spen666** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:48 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
spen666 wrote:

Ironicaslly, the more successful the fan run club is, the more attractive a proposition it is in some ways for a takeover.
I'm sure that we're set up in such a way that we can never be subject to a "takeover"

I don't think it is possible to make it a "never". Even if the constitution said no person can own more than X% of the club, that can always be changed on a vote by the members.

All you can do is make it as hard as possible and hope that puts off and prospective purchaser.

spen666 · Post by **spen666** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:50 pm

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:
Spyman wrote:I'm speculating, but I find it hard to believe these new owners have any other pan than to acquire the stadium/land from the council and then try to develop it - exactly as Houghton tried to do.

Assuming the Council continue to dig their heels in (quite rightly), I can see it going exactly the same way as Houghton's reign at Darlo went. Toys out of pram, club unable to pay suppliers and players etc.
Seeing as how IOR couldn't get the council to budge, despite having been involved at the club for a fairly long time by current football standards, then i'm struggling to see why a new company would feel that they had any greater chance of acquiring the stadium.

Mowden Park and Darlington Borough Council re the Arena?

Bogratsteve · Post by **Bogratsteve** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:53 pm

Well they still have to survive until the transfer window to get some new blood in to try to keep them up, that's providing the new set up are going to pump money into them.

Going to be a big ask for them to avoid the drop.

Post by **D_F_C** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:10 pm

BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:Saying this from a point of view that I don't know who these new owners are nor their motives and intentions I actually find it all rather sad.

Sad to the extend that in the current game 100+ years of history around the UK are just seemingly thrown from one owner to the next with thousands of fans clinging on to the hope that there owners are the savior.

It really is hard to see that these 'saviors' are getting involved with 3rd, 4th and 5th tier clubs for anything but there own selfish interests. They will 95% of the time loan the club money under the illusion of not wanting it back but at the end of the day when their tenure is over and push comes to shove they will want some or all of that loan back.

What happened to the days of the club being run by your local successful business man who got involved simply as a custodian of the club on behalf of the town. With the success or lack of success coming based on sensible finances and results on the pitch.

Were at the point where unless you are financially backed beyond your means you have no chance of competing. There is the odd example to buck the trend Wycombe and Exeter I think are the top 'fan owned clubs' but its hard to see football being sustainable and yet nothing seems to be done about it nor a care given.

I cant help think that after the initial couple of months with the new owners claiming "were here to get this club back where it belongs".... "we want to engage with the fans and the local community".... "were not here for our own good but to help benefit the local area" that in 1, 2 or 5 years time it will all come crashing back down and the scenario will play out again.

We may be down the pyramid but its nice to think we won't ever be in this sort of situation again and reminds me how thankful we should be to those volunteers helping with the club.

I think the nature of the greedy footballers comes into it. The money thrown about now is ridiculous. You have players in the conference earning 50k a year. And who has to take the brunt of the greed...the fans with escalating prices.

The league/FA/UEFA/FIFA (whoever) doesn't have the balls to do anything about it

PierremontQuaker03 · Post by **PierremontQuaker03** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:14 pm

In my opinion they have made as decent a managerial appointment as they could in this situation - however I think Ronnie Moores stock has been declining in recent years after doing a fantastic job with Rotherham - so you just wonder is this Moore's last chance and it could all go pear shaped - you look at Moores quotes for taking the job “There is no way I am willing to end my career on this note. I want to continue my career and reach that elusive 1,000 game as a manager because I’m telling you it won’t be done again". So it sounds like a desperate man taking the job for the wrong reasons - its a short term fix and gamble for Hartlepool but make no doubt they are close to dropping into the abyss and out of the football league.

lo36789 · Post by **lo36789** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:30 pm

not only were people getting pretty excited by Paul Wildes on here, I recall when George Houghton came back into the picture some on here were ok with it!

HarryCharltonsCat wrote:Seeing as how IOR couldn't get the council to budge, despite having been involved at the club for a fairly long time by current football standards, then i'm struggling to see why a new company would feel that they had any greater chance of acquiring the stadium.

Houghton couldn't yet Singh still tried, and when Singh failed Houghton thought about trying again. I always thought there was an element of using administrations to get the council to soften their stance, get them to agree to development/terms in our hour of need...

Still hope they get relegated...but it is firmly on the hope side of the scale now. It would really suprise me if they got bored before January transfer window opening.

Fatty eats roadkill · Post by **Fatty eats roadkill** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:46 pm

Hartlepool council ARE willing to sell the ground. IOR NEVER made a decent offer

divas · Post by **divas** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:48 pm

Fatty eats roadkill wrote:Hartlepool council ARE willing to sell the ground. IOR NEVER made a decent offer

Indeed, however....it's not exactly prime real estate is it....

If you were a pools fan you'd hope the council would attach the necessary sporting covenants.

Spyman · Post by **Spyman** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:48 pm

divas wrote:
Fatty eats roadkill wrote:Hartlepool council ARE willing to sell the ground. IOR NEVER made a decent offer
Indeed, however....it's not exactly prime real estate is it....

If you were a pools fan you'd hope the council would attach the necessary sporting covenants.

True. It is hard to see the reason why they've bought out IOR, but there must be a reason and it'll become clear eventually. Maybe they are that rare thing in football these days - people with money who just want to do something decent with it.

IOR's subsidisation of the club was never going to last forever but it's a shame they couldn't just have run the club sustainably from day one and they'd have eventually found their level. I suppose the pressure from their fans for IOR to move on probably played a part.

Maybe the new lot will run them sustainably, maybe they can afford not to, or maybe they'll turn out to be the next set of irresponsible owners to ruin a football club that should live and die based on the commitment of its supporters, not its owners.

divas · Post by **divas** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:17 pm

I'm sure it'll be compelling viewing whatever the outcome and just nice for once that the instability isn't this side of the fence.

divas · Post by **divas** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 3:23 pm

Must say I do love those pools fans who are now claiming that IOR never in fact put £14m into the club in terms of cash and that's why they've been so quick to write it off.

£14m over 17 years, much spent punching above their natural level....aye of course....

m62exile · Post by **m62exile** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:55 pm

Good luck to our friends from Pools - they've got lucky if indeed IOR have just walked away from £14m - I'd expect that TMH, whoever they are, will have cut them a deal that was more than they'd have got if the club was liquidated or if it went to a CVA - and with no desire of staying involved they've accepted it.

So - off they go happy over the horizon although with no idea who is in charge or why they've got involved. The one thing that has struck me though is they seemingly have no coordinated supporter's group. Honestly I think if our experience is worth anything now is the time to get one set up. Hopefully one that can work with the new set up to get a good representation with the new board and some positive influence, but also so that if it goes tits up at some stage they have some kind of alternative plan in place, or at least the means to create one.

I know the new board have offered a meeting with a representative fan but that is little more than tokenism I'm afraid. They should take the experience they've just gone through and get off their arses to make sure they are ready in case it happens again.

It will take a great recovery to stay up from where they are now this season.

theoriginalfatcat · Post by **theoriginalfatcat** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:03 pm

m62exile wrote:It will take a great recovery to stay up from where they are now this season.

It's do-able. Last night you could 3/1 odds on it, maybe not now though.

theoriginalfatcat · Post by **theoriginalfatcat** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:03 pm

post went in twice.

aveda · Post by **aveda** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:32 pm

lo36789 wrote:I always thought there was an element of using administrations to get the council to soften their stance, get them to agree to development/terms in our hour of need...

What development/terms ? The adjacent land had outline permission for development, it just never happened.

AIDO · Post by **AIDO** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:36 pm

.... I've got a feeling that IOR can't believe their luck to be honest .... Getting shot of a mill stone round your neck is never a bad thing .... but especially now. The whole thing reeks of smoke screens and mirrors ..... Like divas suggested .... Very entertaining times lie ahead for sure .....

Bogratsteve · Post by **Bogratsteve** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:10 pm

On the TV earlier and the company is actually named TMH after the monkey hangers!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quakers1883 · Post by **Quakers1883** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:17 pm

They have slashed ticket prices for the next couple of games.

Mr_Tibbs · Post by **Mr_Tibbs** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:44 pm

m62exile wrote:The one thing that has struck me though is they seemingly have no coordinated supporter's group. Honestly I think if our experience is worth anything now is the time to get one set up. Hopefully one that can work with the new set up to get a good representation with the new board and some positive influence, but also so that if it goes tits up at some stage they have some kind of alternative plan in place, or at least the means to create one.

They should, but that's probably too much like hard work for most of them. They quickly set up some sort of protest group (should've called it a rescue group in my opinion) but, now that they've seemingly found themselves in the hands of a rich benefactor that particular problem (the protestors) will all calm down again. Smacks of a high level deal being done to me... you come in... we'll wipe the debt... etc. ( I live in hope

)

One thing I'm sure about is that these people who've come in are not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts so, you're dead right, some of their more responsible fans need to take the bull by the horns and drive the rest of them in that direction.

theoriginalfatcat · Post by **theoriginalfatcat** » Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:12 pm

Singh could do with hanging out with these IOR dudes for a couple of nights. Might teach him how to push through a quick/clean deal.

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