Worried

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charlie

Re: Worried

Post by charlie » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:01 am

BlackandwhiteBOB wrote:
Beano wrote:The lack of communication regarding the monetary side of the club is very frustrating.

How much, if anything, do we owe on the historic debt?

How much do we actually need to complete the Blackwell Meadows move?

It seems that we never learn the lessons of engaging supporters (and all other stakeholders) with transparent communications.
Some of this is somewhat unfair. Regular financial updates are given out with regards to the historic debt at fans forums. I'm sure at the next forum this will be updated further, I don't imagine there will be much left.

Thankyou, my thoughts also

Beano
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Re: Worried

Post by Beano » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:09 am

Possibly a little unfair, but valid.

As we are proposing to move to Blackwell Meadows for the start of next season the silence is overwhelming.

A simple statement outlining the facts would be welcome. A bi-annual Fans Forum isn't enough, with the greatest respect to all concerned.

lo36789
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Re: Worried

Post by lo36789 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:10 am

Agreed re financial updates. We just need a fans forum in diary.

I mentioned this a few days ago though, I am pretty sure it was said that we wouldn't speed up debt repayment even if cash was available, we would save it as 'headroom'.

The actual debt repayment picture may not be as rosy as the cash in bank position as a result.

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Re: Worried

Post by Beano » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:16 am

Ultimately, we can speculate for eternity but we just need to know the factual financial position of the club to give clarity to all.

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Robbie Painter
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Re: Worried

Post by Robbie Painter » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:19 am

To be fair, fans forums have been held quarterly since we became fan owned. The last one was in June so we are overdue one but it'll be held at same time as AGM which should have been called by now but hasn't for whatever reason.

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Darlobp
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Re: Worried

Post by Darlobp » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:26 am

Hi Lo, yes its hindsight and not hard facts that I’m referring to, but the things that would have helped us now, at the time it would have needed the professional Darlington Football Club to have been working on with the proper authorities, much like other football clubs have done and it has worked for them leaving the “new” FCs in a much better position to reform and rebuild than us. I think our situation must be one of the worst outcome from a FC in Admin.
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Re: Worried

Post by Sussex Phil » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:45 am

Maybe it's time to approach Mowden park about ground sharing back at the Arena at least on a temporary basis until a suitable ground can be sorted.. The most important thing raised by most people is getting back to Darlo, at least this would achieve that?

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Re: Worried

Post by MikeinBlack2 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:48 am

Sussex Phil wrote:Maybe it's time to approach Mowden park about ground sharing back at the Arena at least on a temporary basis until a suitable ground can be sorted.. The most important thing raised by most people is getting back to Darlo, at least this would achieve that?

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I'm pretty sure it has been said already that Mowden Park Rugby Club aren't interested in a ground share with us.
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Re: Worried

Post by Mr_Tibbs » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:50 am

Communication is a 2-way thing. "If you have any questions or just want to send us a message then we want to hear from you. Please use the form below to contact us, and remember to add your email address if you need a reply."

This form will send a message directly to the people who will have the answers to any questions, or take on board and take appropriate action to respond to any growing concerns over the move.

Here's the direct link to the form. Fire away: http://www.backtodarlo.co.uk/contact.php
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AndyPark
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Re: Worried

Post by AndyPark » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:15 am

Either way, we need a statement from the board indicating what is required and too possibly put answers on some very difficult questions.

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Re: Worried

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:52 am

I would say the Board are already aware, so it's now up to them if they feel the need to respond or not.

I don't agree with the panic and the sky is falling in theory. Let's put this into perspective, the costs can be cut massively if we just want somewhere to play next season. Anyone who went to Brighouse will understand that I am not being negative to them as a club (they at least had a ground of their own) but you could probably create that ground in my back garden for very little.

Maybe if costs were a problem we might be aiming too high in terms of ground grading when we move in.

This is totally my opinion and never heard this thought from anyone else but would you accept a move back to Darlo (if Bishop was not available next season) if we were in a promotion position this year but the ground not ready for next level. However from my knowledge there is not that much difference between grading D to C, so would be hard to understand.

I would happily accept a ground capacity of 1,500 initially if it meant being back in Darlo, yes this is not perfect but not getting back to Darlo soon is not acceptable to many.

I don't think it's panic situation but would agree with many that it's time for further info from the Board.

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Re: Worried

Post by Quakerz » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:02 am

Les, if the capacity was only 1,500 then you'd upset a lot of people who wanted to go but were locked out, they might never come back.

You would also kind of miss the point of getting back to Darlo in the first place - vastly increased crowds (at first anyway)

Also, to have an Evostik Premier graded ground, which needs to be the absolute minimum we need to attain, the capacity needs to be 1,950+ anyway. 1,500 would not cut it, unless you like being denied promotion whenever you achieve it.

We could only be two seasons away from BSN football, and let's say we aren't in for next season, we could be looking at needing to start with a BSN graded (3,000 capacity) ground.
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Re: Worried

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:18 am

Looking from a worse case scenario point though Quakerz.

From what some have suggested is that Bishop isn't available next year and a possible 750k required to fund back to Darlo.

If those two points above are facts, what are the alternatives, I guess they are many. Play at Durham/Spennymoor if we were allowed.

Reducing the capaicty if that meant making the move to Darlo doesn't miss the point, would people genuinely if the questions was posed - prefer to wait say 3 more years playing anywhere so we can have a bigger capacity when getting back to Darlo.

To be honest, most of my points were just theories and not what might happen but if the perfect scenario of 3k stadium from day one is not available then sometimes some tough decisions might have to be made and if not perfect then you make the best of what you can or give up.

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Re: Worried

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:22 am

Capacity rule is as below


1.3 Capacity
The Stadium must have a minimum safe capacity of 1,300 calculated by a competent person in
accordance with the guidance given in the Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds. There must also be
potential to increase the capacity to 1950 in the future.

If we get promoted we need

1.3 Capacity
The Stadium must have a minimum operational capacity of 1950 calculated by a competent person in
accordance with the guidance given in the Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds (Green Guide). There
must also be potential to increase the capacity to 3,000 in the future. NB The minimum operational
capacity at Grade B is 3000.

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Robbie Painter
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Re: Worried

Post by Robbie Painter » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:13 pm

Quakerz wrote:Les, if the capacity was only 1,500 then you'd upset a lot of people who wanted to go but were locked out, they might never come back.

You would also kind of miss the point of getting back to Darlo in the first place - vastly increased crowds (at first anyway)

Also, to have an Evostik Premier graded ground, which needs to be the absolute minimum we need to attain, the capacity needs to be 1,950+ anyway. 1,500 would not cut it, unless you like being denied promotion whenever you achieve it.

We could only be two seasons away from BSN football, and let's say we aren't in for next season, we could be looking at needing to start with a BSN graded (3,000 capacity) ground.
I used to think we'd get 2k crowds when we returned to Darlo, not any more. I think that those days are gone now & our support base has been badly eroded, even from where it was when we won the Northern League. Former supporters have moved on, Mowden park are pulling in nearly 1k fans for their home fixtures - I'd bet some of them are former Darlo fans. Even Spennymoor crowds aren't that far below ours. Its possible this weekend they could have a higher home attendance than ours.

I'd snatch Sir Les's hand off for a return to Darlo next season, whatever the capacity, if Bishop wasn't available.

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Re: Worried

Post by AnthonyP » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:28 pm

I understand the £1million pound was for the ground as per the pictures released some months ago. I am not sure if it was a million exactly, or if that was rounded up, but that is the ball park being looked at. The numbers being talked about were 250K to be raised by DFC and 250K by DRFC, with grants available on a pounds invested basis, therefore if we raised 500K between us, we could get a grant for the additional 500K. This includes the car parking and other ground improvements that DRFC need anyway to progress, as well as a ground for us.

I am not too sure, but I think until the Rugby Club give some information about where they are in generating their funds, there is not much the Board can say. We have an idea where we are in the money we have raised/are raising, and what more needs to be done, and presumably the board will push for this information from the Rugby club in the run up to the AGM.

Personally, I am not convinced we will be at Blackwell Meadows next season, but that isn't based on anything other than the current 'silence' from our potential landlords. I hope to be proved wrong.

There would be other 'options' if it didn't transpire, but we'd effectively be starting again with planning permission, and we simply need to be back in Darlo to make the most of the level we are playing at, and the relative success we are having.

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Re: Worried

Post by al_quaker » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:33 pm

We will get 2000 back in Darlington. Our crowds are suffering - it happens when playing out of town. We will suffer every year we are out of the town. As such, we need to get back to town ASAP, even if that is at the expense of promotion. Once back in the town, I think we will be able to really progress.

We do need some sort of statement from the board, and soon. Even if it's not good news, it's better than rumour and speculation in my opinion.

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Re: Worried

Post by TDS » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:47 pm

At the end of the day, asking our own individual questions is extremely time consuming, this "has anyone approached the board themselves?" shite is annoying and small-time.

They do need to see they're responsible for momentum and the access to vital information for the masses. Something which can curb damaging rumours floating around and getting to the darlo haters to spread far and wide, aka "same old darlo" brigade.

I'm not going to speculate, but I'd say £1,000,000 for work in line with the plans drawn up professionally is not an obscene figure? Many changes/additions to BM and this includes toilets, vehicle access gates, perimeter fencing, refreshment facilities, 5m strips of concrete in many areas, transport of our current seating and a roof for that stand. That is going from the architects drawing and does not include any stipulation the highways agency has in regards to access. Also any changes to the clubhouse necessary. We may not be talking a minimum figure and some of the work may be carried out longer term with the money coming in from increased attendances financing that.

Some clarification/fans forum would be beneficial at this stage.

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Re: Worried

Post by Paddock81 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:55 pm

Well it was never going to be a smooth move back home now was it? We’re Darlington FC after all. We need some response on this issue though, the silence only fuels the rumourmongers out there and we can all do without that. Hopefully this is just a ‘rumour’ but some clarity from the board would be most welcome.
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Re: Worried

Post by quaker4life » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:55 pm

It seems these rumours are now gathering a head of steam, I first heard murmurs of it at the Ossett Albion game last week and it appeared again on Twitter yesterday, both times lack of funding was alluded to.

I can't say at this stage I've been panicking over it but it is deeply unsettling and there is no smoke without fire. A fans forum is needed ASAP, being fan owned and several fans having invested in the "B2D" fund they deserve to know where their money is being spent. If not on BM where is it going? A rumour like this if left unchecked could be damaging and divisive we deserve to know either way good or bad if the move to BM has hit the buffers or if this is just idle gossip.

Personally, I wasn't expecting to be back this season or next and was prepared for the immediate future being in Bishop, I very much doubt they'll kick us out we were the original tenants and I understand it is more a case of Sunderland waiting for us to move out so they can move their U21's/Reserves in.

Shildon is an absolute non starter as we already know, despite it being previously believed their Dean Street ground had the correct grading to host football at ESN/EPL level as it turned out it doesn't and that situation has not changed. The only way we could go there (god forbid) is if we take a demotion, its absolutely not an option.

The Arena is also out of the question as far as I'm concerned, I understand as has been previously stated DMP have no desire to share with us. I said at the time we left once we go there's no turning back. Also it is likely we would face a substantial increase in rent and overheads, I highly doubt they would allow us it on the cheap, it simply wouldn't be viable IMO.

Like I said a fans forum is needed ASAP whether these rumours are clarified or dismissed for what they are we deserve to know, don't keep us in the dark.
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Re: Worried

Post by Ingleby » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:57 pm

TDS wrote:At the end of the day, asking our own individual questions is extremely time consuming, this "has anyone approached the board themselves?" shite is annoying and small-time.

They do need to see they're responsible for momentum and the access to vital information for the masses. Something which can curb damaging rumours floating around and getting to the darlo haters to spread far and wide, aka "same old darlo" brigade.
Totally agree.
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Re: Worried

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:13 pm

Ingleby wrote:
TDS wrote:At the end of the day, asking our own individual questions is extremely time consuming, this "has anyone approached the board themselves?" shite is annoying and small-time.

They do need to see they're responsible for momentum and the access to vital information for the masses. Something which can curb damaging rumours floating around and getting to the darlo haters to spread far and wide, aka "same old darlo" brigade.
Totally agree.
Me too - unfortunately.

How do you contact the club anyway? The email address taken off the contact details on the official site doesn't appear to work.
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Re: Worried

Post by Mr_Tibbs » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:56 pm

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
Ingleby wrote:
TDS wrote:At the end of the day, asking our own individual questions is extremely time consuming, this "has anyone approached the board themselves?" shite is annoying and small-time.

They do need to see they're responsible for momentum and the access to vital information for the masses. Something which can curb damaging rumours floating around and getting to the darlo haters to spread far and wide, aka "same old darlo" brigade.
Totally agree.
Me too - unfortunately.

How do you contact the club anyway? The email address taken off the contact details on the official site doesn't appear to work.
Use the form on the B2D site to ask any questions about the move. I happen to know (and I should) that these messages go directly to the horses mouth, so to speak.

http://www.backtodarlo.co.uk/contact.php
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Re: Worried

Post by notgnilrad » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:56 pm

I think if we are not moving to BM next season the best thing would be not to get promotion.
We would then need a bigger playing budget and less money to save to get back to BM also extra cost for the ground upgrade which would leave us with more overheads we cant afford on top of rental for the ground.
We are on a great run, top of the league and struggling to hit 1K it is not going to get any better playing out of town as the crowds are dwindling. I think we would be close to 700-1,000 crowds anyway whether we top or not. So the question is do we sacrifice promotion cut our playing budget right down and concentrate on playing the kids and save for BM or get promotion and continue to be nomads.

charlie

Re: Worried

Post by charlie » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:00 pm

Nobody has officially said were not moving for next season yet to Blackwell Meadows. Rumours are just rumours. If folk feel strongly then may I suggest contacting the board with questions or asking for a Fans forum

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Re: Worried

Post by Beano » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:11 pm

charlie wrote:Nobody has officially said were not moving for next season yet to Blackwell Meadows. Rumours are just rumours. If folk feel strongly then may I suggest contacting the board with questions or asking for a Fans forum
That's the point; no one has said anything despite no further development at Blackwell Meadows.

I think you're completely missing the point when directing everyone to contact the board. If 500 fans write in asking a similar question they won't be able to cope, but the whole situation could be alleviated via better communication.

We are a fan run club after all - we should be communicating with each other.
Last edited by Beano on Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Worried

Post by TSQuaker » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:25 pm

I must admit, this whole thing could be quickly resolved if the board were to come out and say something.

The longer it drags on, the more concerned people are going to become.
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charlie

Re: Worried

Post by charlie » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:03 pm

To be fair, this is an unofficial message board. If the board haven't looked at it then maybe they don't know questions are being asked.
I'm not privy to any info on the BM developments before anybody asks. However trying to look at it from an outsiders point of view I can totally understand why we as supporters are needing info but from the Boards point of view I can understand that maybe they can't release info too soon due to constraints placed on them by planning or funding etc
I know from working at the shop that meetings are happening , I'm not privy to what is happening or what is said at the meetings but at least they are happening. I think the way forward is to ask for a fans forum , so I'm not missing the point at all because I'd already suggested that.

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Re: Worried

Post by moodymonica » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:40 pm

I think it's pretty naive to say the board don't read the 'unofficial website'.
Updates aren't required daily or weekly but would be appreciated on a 'regular' basis, say monthly or when a major achievement has taken place.
I would have thought it in everyone's interest to keep the positive momentum on a return to Darlington in the public eye.
Otherwise we end up with rumours, doom mongering etc. If the club wants our support surely we deserve similar

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Re: Worried

Post by quakersam » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:58 pm

A lot of things seem to be falling by the wayside at the moment

: Certificates (took an age)
: Blackwell (silence is deafening)
: Website (player profiles etc)
: Newsletters (not happening?)
: Social media (seems to be back to HT/FT scores)
: AGM (always seems to be this will be announced soon then nothing)
: Fans Forum (last one in the summer?)

There's no buzz around the place any more, on the pitch is the only thing keeping us going at the moment, as off the pitch we seemed to have stagnated, this isn't a dig at anyone but if we're trying to act like a professional club we need to up our game a little bit.

We seem to hide a lot of the time behind the 'this information can't be passed on due to x,y,z.

Heck, give me the tools like an email list and I'll create something that can be sent to fans every 2-3 weeks and even if we can get a little information on how things are progressing it keeps people in the loop and gives people the confidence that things are still moving.

I don't understand the need to have a social media account for the shop, the football club, the CIC, the trust, the supporters club. It's common sense that everything should be kept in one central place as to not dilute your audience, simple!

If Kev needs a help updating the website I can do that too
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