Stockdale rumour

dfcdfcdfc · Post by **dfcdfcdfc** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:34 pm

Must be at about breakeven point of the money we had to part with in buying the assets of the old club.

TDS · Post by **TDS** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:12 am

Like has been said, as "debt-free" as we want to be it just isn't viable to throw it all at the interest free debt. The board made the decision with previous Dan Burn money that it has to go towards cementing our "readies" and securing our short term future, unfortunately this may be the case yet again. At least for a large proportion.

Fans have to remember we can pay the debt off as slowly as we like but a balance is ideal.

lo36789 · Post by **lo36789** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:46 am

TDS wrote:Like has been said, as "debt-free" as we want to be it just isn't viable to throw it all at the interest free debt. The board made the decision with previous Dan Burn money that it has to go towards cementing our "readies" and securing our short term future, unfortunately this may be the case yet again. At least for a large proportion.

Fans have to remember we can pay the debt off as slowly as we like but a balance is ideal.

Not sure. We did a share issue which covered off all short term liabilities. We needed £50k and got £60k. The Dan Burn money covered these liabilities and have us a bit more freedom with the share issue and the subsequent extension. It then allowed us to pay off the unstructured debts.

From the report we last had with £60k outstanding. It would be nice for a breakdown of this debt and what it is made up of now. I recall there was £1.3k going to one part of the admin and 3.7k to somewhere else - but I have a suspicions the more expensive one might be paid up now?

I did include in my survey that shareholders should be entitled to all the information given to shareholders in any other company. This would include in an annual report (of listed companies admittedly) details of major debts. Just because we have a CIC as a middle man that shouldn't be a barrier to information.

If you google Arsenal/Everton/Sunderland they all have their annual reports on line and in the notes to the accounts there is good detail around debt/costs and turnover. I don't believe anything beyond that would be needed. Only Arsenal are a plc I think?

Comfortably_numb · Post by **Comfortably_numb** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:44 am

lo36789 wrote:We havn't had a bad time since Dan Burn played against Norwich!

£75k - Dan Burn first appearance
£x k - David Stockdale's 50th Fulham appearance (His 40th has happened since which was also rumoured to be the trigger - said to be £12.5k)
£x k - Michael Smith sell on clause
£60k - Share issue
£15k - Sunderland game (conservative estimate)
£54k to £90k - David Stockdale sell on clause

Rumoured...
£x k - Dan Burn's 10th appearance

Potentially £250k+ from none matchdays revenues!

and the most pleasing thing for me is that its money going to the club and not to invidividuals only to never be seen again. so often in the past - going back years and years we'd sell players for decent money but never see any real benefit

Post by **D_F_C** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:27 pm

I think one thing we need to budget for this year is less attendence. At least for the first half of the season.

I think season tickets will be down

DTID · Post by **DTID** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:45 pm

The club need to be more transparent in terms of the money the club spend and what they owe. This is one of the main reasons IMO that some fans are becoming frustrated and losing interest. We were promised transparency from the very start. At the beginning we received a breakdown on monies owed but we were never provided information where money was spent. I raised this in my questionnaire.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is likely to change either.

shawry · Post by **shawry** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:49 am

The debt is the reason we've been on life support more than once since we took over the club.

Pay the debt off as soon as we can then we can truly live within our means, if that means we can't afford to develop the rugby club so be it, but we will know that we should never need to find more cash than we have coming in.

BlackandwhiteBOB · Post by **BlackandwhiteBOB** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:46 am

DTID wrote:The club need to be more transparent in terms of the money the club spend and what they owe. This is one of the main reasons IMO that some fans are becoming frustrated and losing interest. We were promised transparency from the very start. At the beginning we received a breakdown on monies owed but we were never provided information where money was spent. I raised this in my questionnaire.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is likely to change either.

Where do you feel information is being with held and how much specifics do you feel should be revealed. I go to the fans forums and there is always a breakdown of costs and debts. Granted it isn't revealed to the penny what our playing budget is etc but IMO to put this kind of information into the public domain would be seriously counter productive and could cause major headaches when conducting transfer dealings with other clubs. I don't understand why some people feel they need to know absolutely everything. Fact is, we don't!

lo36789 · Post by **lo36789** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 6:22 am

BlackandwhiteBOB wrote:Where do you feel information is being with held and how much specifics do you feel should be revealed. I go to the fans forums and there is always a breakdown of costs and debts.

I think the best fans forum was the one where Dan Burn announcement came and it was explicitly stated what debt existed and what that debt was made up of. The only snippet I got from the last forum was "debt is down to £60k", I guess would it have hurt to put up the same split? If that had been done I except DTID would have had no quarms.

BlackandwhiteBOB wrote:Granted it isn't revealed to the penny what our playing budget is etc but IMO to put this kind of information into the public domain would be seriously counter productive and could cause major headaches when conducting transfer dealings with other clubs. I don't understand why some people feel they need to know absolutely everything. Fact is, we don't!

I don't know, other football clubs are pretty open about playing/coaching budgets in their annual reports. These aren't even clubs listed on the stock exchange, maybe it isn't that detrimental?

For what it is worth I put that the playing budget is a figure of interest to fans, as would revenues etc. I don't want to know how much individual players get, but an overall view of how much does it cost to run the team would be nice. A published set of accounts with decent notes to the accounts would end any transparency debate.

The worst thing it could do for me would demonstrate why we need 5x more fans through the gate than any other club.

theoriginalfatcat · Post by **theoriginalfatcat** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:20 am

BlackandwhiteBOB wrote:Where do you feel information is being with held and how much specifics do you feel should be revealed. I go to the fans forums and there is always a breakdown of costs and debts. Granted it isn't revealed to the penny what our playing budget is etc but IMO to put this kind of information into the public domain would be seriously counter productive and could cause major headaches when conducting transfer dealings with other clubs. I don't understand why some people feel they need to know absolutely everything. Fact is, we don't!

I too would be interested to know what the debt is - what the playing budget is and other stuff like this. I'm not saying the info isn't out there or that it is being
"withheld" but I feel it would benefit us (the hard core fans) to get REGULAR - EASY TO UNDERSTAND UPDATES.

Because of our recent troubles, we as Darlo fans have an interest in this kind of thing. We raise money, get involved and we are very much part of it, so I.M.O this should work both ways.

PS Bob, I don't wish to know "absolutely everything"

Darlofan97 · Post by **Darlofan97** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:38 am

DTID wrote:The club need to be more transparent in terms of the money the club spend and what they owe. This is one of the main reasons IMO that some fans are becoming frustrated and losing interest. We were promised transparency from the very start. At the beginning we received a breakdown on monies owed but we were never provided information where money was spent. I raised this in my questionnaire.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is likely to change either.

http://www.darlington1883.co.uk/?p=7404#more-7404

Specific details of how these funds have been utilised alongside the receipts from former players’ appearances will be given in the annual accounts to 30 June 2014 and at the Annual General Meeting when the full financial position of the Club will be shared. A date for the AGM will be advised in due course.

There was also significant financial information given in the investment brochures. This included turnover, cost of sales, gross profit and overheads for 12/13 season and then towards June 2014. Significant information was then also given on the debt situation at June 2013 and then at June 2014 (predicted). A break-down is given on what we owe, who to and also that the TUPE liabilities were currently being paid off at c£1,300 a month.

There is information out there in the public, for all to see.

Darlofan97 · Post by **Darlofan97** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:44 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
BlackandwhiteBOB wrote:Where do you feel information is being with held and how much specifics do you feel should be revealed. I go to the fans forums and there is always a breakdown of costs and debts. Granted it isn't revealed to the penny what our playing budget is etc but IMO to put this kind of information into the public domain would be seriously counter productive and could cause major headaches when conducting transfer dealings with other clubs. I don't understand why some people feel they need to know absolutely everything. Fact is, we don't!

I too would be interested to know what the debt is - what the playing budget is and other stuff like this. I'm not saying the info isn't out there or that it is being
"withheld" but I feel it would benefit us (the hard core fans) to get REGULAR - EASY TO UNDERSTAND UPDATES.

I don't think disclosing the playing budget would be a good idea. It can add more pressure onto the players and coaching staff, as well as working against us when negotiating contracts with potential signings or transfer fees with other clubs.

It would be good to know as fans, but I think you have to look at the bigger picture and the detriment it can have to the club.

Darlofan97 · Post by **Darlofan97** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:49 am

shawry wrote:The debt is the reason we've been on life support more than once since we took over the club.

Pay the debt off as soon as we can then we can truly live within our means, if that means we can't afford to develop the rugby club so be it, but we will know that we should never need to find more cash than we have coming in.

I'd rather we kept the money in the bank, just in case attendances aren't up to the budgeted standard. If they are, then we should be looking at utilising the funds to get back to Darlington as soon as possible. This will increase match-day/commercial revenue, having a knock-on effect by accelerating the debt repayments.

The only debt left is rumoured to be the TUPE contracts which are (again rumoured) to be interest free structured repayments.

Spyman · Post by **Spyman** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:02 am

theoriginalfatcat wrote:
BlackandwhiteBOB wrote:Where do you feel information is being with held and how much specifics do you feel should be revealed. I go to the fans forums and there is always a breakdown of costs and debts. Granted it isn't revealed to the penny what our playing budget is etc but IMO to put this kind of information into the public domain would be seriously counter productive and could cause major headaches when conducting transfer dealings with other clubs. I don't understand why some people feel they need to know absolutely everything. Fact is, we don't!

I too would be interested to know what the debt is - what the playing budget is and other stuff like this. I'm not saying the info isn't out there or that it is being
"withheld" but I feel it would benefit us (the hard core fans) to get REGULAR - EASY TO UNDERSTAND UPDATES.

Because of our recent troubles, we as Darlo fans have an interest in this kind of thing. We raise money, get involved and we are very much part of it, so I.M.O this should work both ways.

PS Bob, I don't wish to know "absolutely everything"

Why would it benefit the fans to know what the playing budget is? I can't even beging to fathom how it would benefit you other than you could show off that bit of knowledge. As others have pointed out, revealing our budget only gives potential targets and their clubs the opportunity to sting us for more cash than they otherwise would.

As long as we're kept in the loop regarding how much debt we still carry, perhaps timescales for when this debt will be gone, and a reasonably regular top line view of our accounts (ie we made £x over the last quarter based on a turnover of £y), and explanation of any significant variances - then I think we just trust those in charge to get on with it.

If they fail to deliver, we hold them to account. As long as they are keeping us moving in the right direction we let them get on with it.

Darlogramps · Post by **Darlogramps** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:55 am

DTID has problems with the board, as he has said on here and sent to me via PM in the past. Some concerns are legitimate however.

But there is no good reason whatsoever for fans to know the specific playing budget. The only reason any fan would want to know that is through nosiness.

I agree with Spyman - so long as we're aware of the debt and the main figures for finances (i.e. turnover), then that should be enough. The fans are in a much stronger position in which to hold the club to account than they ever have been before.

This should also be factored in too.

AIDO · Post by **AIDO** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:04 am

Totally agree with Spyman ...... there's too many of these accusations of lack of transparency within the club. Those who are in such a position within DFC are doing it right. If people cared to go to meetings and forum's they'd be aware that there is certainly no indication of secrecy on any matter, but some of the finer detail has to be withheld out of discretion and common sense. A fan owned club doesn't mean that we all become CEO's, which appears to be what some people think.

On a similar matter, the following link is interesting:

http://www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/art ... 95034.aspx?

Post by **D_F_C** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:19 pm

AIDO wrote:Totally agree with Spyman ...... there's too many of these accusations of lack of transparency within the club. Those who are in such a position within DFC are doing it right. If people cared to go to meetings and forum's they'd be aware that there is certainly no indication of secrecy on any matter, but some of the finer detail has to be withheld out of discretion and common sense. A fan owned club doesn't mean that we all become CEO's, which appears to be what some people think.

On a similar matter, the following link is interesting:

http://www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/art ... 95034.aspx?

Spot on AIDO and spyman.

Just look at what happened to Man City (although it was a slightly different scenario) they were stung for stupid prices for players.

If we reveal budget, we give an idea of how much someone is worth or getting paid. We don't want fans making opinions about players based on wage. "you're not worth the £x your getting"

Spyman · Post by **Spyman** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:44 pm

D_F_C wrote:
AIDO wrote:Totally agree with Spyman ...... there's too many of these accusations of lack of transparency within the club. Those who are in such a position within DFC are doing it right. If people cared to go to meetings and forum's they'd be aware that there is certainly no indication of secrecy on any matter, but some of the finer detail has to be withheld out of discretion and common sense. A fan owned club doesn't mean that we all become CEO's, which appears to be what some people think.

On a similar matter, the following link is interesting:

http://www.bristolrovers.co.uk/news/art ... 95034.aspx?
Spot on AIDO and spyman.

Just look at what happened to Man City (although it was a slightly different scenario) they were stung for stupid prices for players.

If we reveal budget, we give an idea of how much someone is worth or getting paid. We don't want fans making opinions about players based on wage. "you're not worth the £x your getting"

To be fair, Man City (or their wealthy owners) can afford to be stung with stupid prices - that's what the game is about at that level. They also couldn't avoid it as their owners are so wealthy and so well-known that they don't need to reveal budgets for people to know they have mega-money.

We however can't afford to be taken the piss of whether we have a high playing budget for this level or not.

Neil_Heaneys_Pace · Post by **Neil_Heaneys_Pace** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:01 pm

Anyone remember an certain ex chairman revealing players wages, it didnt exactly go down well.

Robbie Painter · Post by **Robbie Painter** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:07 pm

I think the example here from Scunthorpe lays out an appropriate level of detail, breaking down the income & expenditure:

http://www.theirontrust.com/1213finance/

theoriginalfatcat · Post by **theoriginalfatcat** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:28 pm

Robbie Painter wrote:I think the example here from Scunthorpe lays out an appropriate level of detail, breaking down the income & expenditure:

http://www.theirontrust.com/1213finance/

An interesting insight, and well explained.

super_les_mcjannet · Post by **super_les_mcjannet** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:31 pm

I think the club have provided a lot of information for the fans and the forums are very informative.

It seems those shareholders will get even further information first hand in the AGM which is good. There will always be a fine line between giving out information and giving other clubs/players/managers too much information.

If say the playing budget was given as 150k, it doesn't take a player long to work out how much the average wage is and try to push for more.

We are a fans owned club and it is new to us, it needs developing and improving all the time but after 2 tough years you can see progress has been made.

Darlo Uncovered

Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour

Re: Stockdale rumour