Financial : SquareKnot

[lo36789]

This is probably a really stupid question, because frankly it would be absurd if it didn't but the budget projections include debt repayments don't they? It's not just playing budget or anything like that?

So £50k covers us to the y/e June 2014 and to the projected position of the accounts above.

I picked up from the twitter feeds today that we will probably keep hold of that £25k as a bit of a slush fund almost. Makes sense but it does mean there aren't concerns over the CIC loan/DL being called in.

Personally wouldn't mind getting shot of the rest of that debt figure ASAP mind. I am looking forward to reading an official report on the evening, couldn't really make a concise story out of the twitter updates.

Burn money can't be bad news. Is it after 25 games we get another little chunk? Hopefully it'll be a 23 game countdown after the FA Cup replay! Every game Stockdale plays is another game closer to more cash as well (I make it 39 appearances to date so another 11 to go!)!

[super_les_mcjannet]

We have never had a pack as far as I know in regards to a fans forum so I wouldn't expect one this time.

To be honest it jumps quite a bit and good questions often get lost in some crazy questions.

We went through how much we get for Dan Burn and were told, 5 minutes later someone asked how much we are getting for Dan Burn.
Martin advised interested in Joe Tait but likely to get financially pipped by Celtic Nation etc, 3 mins later someone wanted to know if we should go for Joe Tait.

It's hard work to string it all back together after these breaks. Also most questions of very specific nature I have seen on Twitter are not answered 100%. I come away from the forums with more information but often more questions than I went with.

[divas]

lo - read my take on things in the "where should I send my standing order" thread.

In regards to other debt - that will not be expedited - to be honest we just don't have the surplus cash to do that anyway and even if we did the terms of agreement are prohibitive. IMO all investments should now be in a return home as those investments will actually return a positive ROI.

[lo36789]

We have never had a pack as far as I know in regards to a fans forum so I wouldn't expect one this time.

There was a transcript produced last time.

I am sure I remember there was a big fuss made over something in it because some people weren't listening on the night.

As you say the twitter feed was a little difficult to follow!

[super_les_mcjannet]

lo - read my take on things in the "where should I end my standing order" thread

MJ left it very open, basically saying put your money in any of the schemes the 3 direct to the club and one for the ground into the CIC. I do think we may need one pot for a specific reason as you mention Divas to get the money flowing faster.

The equity scheme will hopefully be extended from 17th Jan to possibly 31st Jan, not sure this will get the take up we want mind.

[lo36789]

The equity scheme will hopefully be extended from 17th Jan to possibly 31st Jan, not sure this will get the take up we want mind.

Is there any reason it is still being limited to January do you know, is that a legal thing? Just feels to me that time isn't as much of the essence as it once was.

[super_les_mcjannet]

The equity scheme will hopefully be extended from 17th Jan to possibly 31st Jan, not sure this will get the take up we want mind.

Is there any reason it is still being limited to January do you know, is that a legal thing? Just feels to me that time isn't as much of the essence as it once was.

Not 100% sure. I don't know what happens if they don't reach the target as I haven't read enough yet. Do those who have put in still put the money in or does it get refunded.

[divas]

It gets refunded if we don't hit our target.

[princes town]

The equity scheme will hopefully be extended from 17th Jan to possibly 31st Jan, not sure this will get the take up we want mind.

Is there any reason it is still being limited to January do you know, is that a legal thing? Just feels to me that time isn't as much of the essence as it once was.

It was asked at the meeting. One reason was the severity of the cash flow- money required sooner rather than later. I can't remember the other reason. I don't recollect any reasons that were strictly legal.

[m62exile]

The equity scheme will hopefully be extended from 17th Jan to possibly 31st Jan, not sure this will get the take up we want mind.

Is there any reason it is still being limited to January do you know, is that a legal thing? Just feels to me that time isn't as much of the essence as it once was.

Not 100% sure. I don't know what happens if they don't reach the target as I haven't read enough yet. Do those who have put in still put the money in or does it get refunded.

The T's & C's state that no money is taken until the target is reached. It's just a pledge at this stage.

[super_les_mcjannet]

Ok. Without wanting to be negative, if the end date is 31st Jan we will struggle massively to hit 50k.

Tempted to say the Back to Darlo fund makes the most sense. Would like the club to achieve all goals but just can't see it.

[lo36789]

The equity scheme will hopefully be extended from 17th Jan to possibly 31st Jan, not sure this will get the take up we want mind.

Is there any reason it is still being limited to January do you know, is that a legal thing? Just feels to me that time isn't as much of the essence as it once was.

It was asked at the meeting. One reason was the severity of the cash flow- money required sooner rather than later. I can't remember the other reason. I don't recollect any reasons that were strictly legal.

They said cash flow even after the Dan Burn money?

I can understand why it was the 17th in the first place, makes sense given the state of play. Can't see how now it can be a case of cash flow now?

Unfortunately I don't think we stand chance of getting £50k in both pots by the 31st. I don't even think we will get £50k across the two of them but even if we did it's the same issue as crowdcube once it goes back it doesn't come back again easily.

Who ever runs the clubs twitter better get busy and follow every single elite footballer that is out there. Hopefully a thousand of them will return the favour and 1 in 10 of them has a spare £1,000 kicking about that they will throw in when they read the tweet about the squareknot initiative.

[Maurice_Peddelty]

One important point, MJ clarified afterwards that the target is £50k across both pitches, equity + reward, not each. I didn't think the squareknot site made this clear.

[lo36789]

One important point, MJ clarified afterwards that the target is £50k across both pitches, equity + reward, not each. I didn't think the squareknot site made this clear.

Did he mention if we did get £50k across both we would be able to take it?

I just thought the rules on squareknot are that if you don't hit the target for the individual pitch then the money can't be taken?

[Maurice_Peddelty]

The target is to raise a total of £50k through a combination of both pitches. £50k doesn't need to raised for each pitch for the pledges to be drawn down.

Another point strongly made last night is that there is a non-disclosure clause in Dan Burn's transfer deal that requires both clubs to agree before any information could be released. Therefore if anyone has details of future milestones etc of Dan Burn's (and any other player that Darlo has an interest in) transfer deal, the club would want these details to kept out of the public domain because potentially releasing this information could jeopardise future payments. Clearly, on this occasion, Fulham must have agreed to the publication of the details last night. But it shouldn't be taken for granted that this would apply next time.

[ted_do]

One important point, MJ clarified afterwards that the target is £50k across both pitches, equity + reward, not each. I didn't think the squareknot site made this clear.

Did he mention if we did get £50k across both we would be able to take it?

I just thought the rules on squareknot are that if you don't hit the target for the individual pitch then the money can't be taken?

After the crowd cube debacle I`m really surprised we have gone back down this type of funding route again, at the time if it had not been for crowd cube and its rules I`m sure that we would have had at least 300k “donated” with people wanting nothing more than a piece of paper showing them as a shareholder. I don’t think DFC will get the same level of interest this time, but say we get 40K donated this is below the squareknot “deal” so the deal is off and people get refunds? I can see one or two thinking ehh??? Darlo must not want my money so when the next idea comes along I can see even less interest.

Take me I invested in crowd cube and were happy at the time to donate, when we got the funds back I then donated/invested in the CIC as I thought this was the new funding route, I have put a few paypal quid’s into the back to Darlo fund, but I don’t think I will be putting any into the squareknot as I don’t really get the concept, and I believe I am the average fan so I cant see a massive take up so thank god for the Dan Burn money.

I think simple old fashioned fundraising for a return to Darlo is best, with things like named bricks, and the fundraising groups events are our best hope of raising a steady stream of cash.

Its hard work this saving a football club lark, I really don’t envy the fans that have stepped up to the mark to be board members.

[lo36789]

If we will be successful with £50k across both pitches then I am a bit more hopeful.

We have 6k in the pair of them now - so we are 12% there. We have 24days to find £44,000 basically.

It is an average of £1,833 per day a big ask all the same! Hopefully the business meeting goes well whenever that is and we see the rewards of that!

[banktopp]

As m62exile pointed out the squareknot schemes only require pledges at this point and only if targets are hit will money be taken. So far a combined total of around £6000 has been pledged and unlikely therefore I feel to reach £50000 by the 17th Jan.
However should the funds not reach £50000 it is a simple matter to transfer our pledges into a donation to the 'Back to Darlo Fund'
The Dan Burn money gives the club a bit of breathing space but only if we return to Darlington A.S.A.P.

[BlackandwhiteBOB]

If we will be successful with £50k across both pitches then I am a bit more hopeful.

We have 6k in the pair of them now - so we are 12% there. We have 24days to find £44,000 basically.

It is an average of £1,833 per day a big ask all the same! Hopefully the business meeting goes well whenever that is and we see the rewards of that!

Been some new investment today. Hope it keeps coming. Need a couple of big business investments to get the ball rolling really.

[love it!]

If we will be successful with £50k across both pitches then I am a bit more hopeful.

We have 6k in the pair of them now - so we are 12% there. We have 24days to find £44,000 basically.

It is an average of £1,833 per day a big ask all the same! Hopefully the business meeting goes well whenever that is and we see the rewards of that!

Been some new investment today. Hope it keeps coming. Need a couple of big business investments to get the ball rolling really.

Not detracting from the individual donations which can also mount up. No one should assume big business will fund this move its down to us

[BlackandwhiteBOB]

If we will be successful with £50k across both pitches then I am a bit more hopeful.

We have 6k in the pair of them now - so we are 12% there. We have 24days to find £44,000 basically.

It is an average of £1,833 per day a big ask all the same! Hopefully the business meeting goes well whenever that is and we see the rewards of that!

Been some new investment today. Hope it keeps coming. Need a couple of big business investments to get the ball rolling really.

Not detracting from the individual donations which can also mount up. No one should assume big business will fund this move its down to us

Very true. Wasn't trying to detract from it, but they would certainly come in handy.

[quakerlady]

Having sat on my Crowdcube investment for a year now. I now feel more comfortable with pledging it back. After much thought I have decided to invest half in the squareknot and half in the Back to Darlo. My thoughts are if the Squareknot doesnt complete I will take that money and pledge that into the Back to Darlo too.

To all the folks I have met/talked to in Darlington in the past year or so who have said I am not travelling out to Bishop to watch the team. I now say to you if you want to see the team back in Darlo put your hands in your pocket and put your money in too.

[tezza]

Quakerlady: Sensible approach. It is however essential that the square knot £50k minimum target is achieved, particularly so as others who invest may not transfer their pledge in the way you are doing. If we fall short, lets say with the extension we amass £35K, I can fore see a huge % being returned and lost for ever, I use crowd cube as the example. You may want to reconsider.?

I posted earlier the text is below. Square knot has 3 schemes (not 2) and the target is £50K across the 3 before money can be released to DFC

The 3 square knot funds are DFC initiatives to raise funding. Their target is a minimum of £50K. Any monies raised are intended to be used to keep the club running, Working Capital.
The "backtodarlo" fund is a CIC initiative to raise funding, "ring fenced" solely to assist the proposed move to Blackwell Meadows. £75K is the target. Presumably there are grants somewhere along the line to supplement this, as £75K in my opinion will only scratch the surface to bring BM up to a reasonable standard.

As was said at the forum, the greater portion of the Dan Burn windfall will be used alongside funds raised from the 3 square knot schemes to create a financial buffer against "bad debt", hence the phrase financial headroom. Additionally provide the working capital to ensure that funds are readily available to service the day to day business running costs.

It has to make sense that keeping the club going is as much a priority as the return to Darlington. There would be little point in developing a facility with no team to move in. What is very important, and the point has been made, the Dan Burn windfall was a very welcome financial injection, however, it should not be seen as a sigh of relief that continued funding is no longer required. Far from it, indeed given our only piece of good fortune in the last 2 years, we are close to achieving some of our revised ambitions, would be foolish for anyone to be complacent now.

[olrad]

Tezza, hope your wrong about ALL the funds raised from the 3 pitches being earmarked for financial headroom/current costs. My understanding was that some ( as yet not decided dependent on monies raised and financial shortfall/desired headroom) and remainder will go forward to assist with our return to Darlo. 75K + 50K = 125k , which is in my opinion far to large a shortfall/headroom for a club trying to raise a much needs 75K to start its building of a return to town. Like i said ,i hope you are wrong.

[charlie]

Quakerlady: Sensible approach. It is however essential that the square knot £50k minimum target is achieved, particularly so as others who invest may not transfer their pledge in the way you are doing. If we fall short, lets say with the extension we amass £35K, I can fore see a huge % being returned and lost for ever, I use crowd cube as the example. You may want to reconsider.?

I posted earlier the text is below. Square knot has 3 schemes (not 2) and the target is £50K across the 3 before money can be released to DFC

The 3 square knot funds are DFC initiatives to raise funding. Their target is a minimum of £50K. Any monies raised are intended to be used to keep the club running, Working Capital.
The "backtodarlo" fund is a CIC initiative to raise funding, "ring fenced" solely to assist the proposed move to Blackwell Meadows. £75K is the target. Presumably there are grants somewhere along the line to supplement this, as £75K in my opinion will only scratch the surface to bring BM up to a reasonable standard.

As was said at the forum, the greater portion of the Dan Burn windfall will be used alongside funds raised from the 3 square knot schemes to create a financial buffer against "bad debt", hence the phrase financial headroom. Additionally provide the working capital to ensure that funds are readily available to service the day to day business running costs.

It has to make sense that keeping the club going is as much a priority as the return to Darlington. There would be little point in developing a facility with no team to move in. What is very important, and the point has been made, the Dan Burn windfall was a very welcome financial injection, however, it should not be seen as a sigh of relief that continued funding is no longer required. Far from it, indeed given our only piece of good fortune in the last 2 years, we are close to achieving some of our revised ambitions, would be foolish for anyone to be complacent now.

This I agree with, as much as we need to come home we need to keep the club going to come home and I personally think the square knot is just as important as the back to Darlo fund x

[BlackandwhiteBOB]

The business breakfast this morning seems to have helped the situation. Two equity investments so far today. One of them for 5k. Upto 20% on that pitch now! Keep it coming

[tezza]

Olrad: Those are the facts.
Please try to distinguish between the two entities.
DFC & CIC.
DFC = 3 Schemes, objective minimum £50K primary use, working capital
CIC = 1 Scheme, "backtodarlo", objective £75K SOLE AND ONLY PURPOSE DEVELOPMENT OF BLACKWELL MEADOWS

Both entities are working closely together to achieve the same objective. It just they have different models and avenues for raising badly needed funds.

[olrad]

Tezza, i do understand that DFC and the CIC are different, even though i have difficulty explaining that to any one who is not an avid follower Of Darlo.
I also understand that DFC launched its fund raising initiatives to raise 50k to help with the immediate cash flow/business needs to help with our club, with an average attendance of over 1000, all be it with manage able repayments for inherited dept. ( struggle to explain that as well).
The fact that a recent windfall of 75 k into DFC has not (according to you) changed the immediate need for 50 k or at least altered its focus, is slightly hard for me to understand never mind a casual observer.
iMO, and i can not claim this to be fact, but i believe that for now ( and if our immediate future does not depend on it) that all focus should have been directed towards the one aim ( the CIC one ) and that enthusiasm and uptake would have been much higher than it has to date if we had concentrated on the one tangible and measured aim. ( it would be easier to explain and that is a fact)

[tezza]

Maybe its because even with the windfall the total of £125K is still a long way off. Also the Equity Scheme, the scheme for the larger investor, currently has limited life .

[love it!]

I have no idea who John Barker is but he has pledged £1000. Fair play to you fella. Can anyone confirm if I can increase my pledge?

Ignore this just worked it out