Dan Burn

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Ash_Quaker
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Dan Burn

Post by Ash_Quaker » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:32 pm

Dan Burn has been recalled by Fulham.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/f ... am-6462591

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Robbie Painter
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Re: Dan Burn

Post by Robbie Painter » Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:46 pm

Ash_Quaker wrote:Dan Burn has been recalled by Fulham.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/f ... am-6462591
Very exciting news both for Dan Burn and potentially our finances. Although it would be just our luck for FA cup games not to trigger any payments to us.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by Andrew Wilkinson » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:02 pm

There's no suggestion that he's going to play any time soon. New manager wants to assess him before deciding. Could well return to Birmingham on loan. But while he's back at Fulham there's always a chance he could play

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by BlackandwhiteBOB » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:06 pm

I'm sure it's been on here numerous times but what clauses do we have for Dan Burn. Do we just need him to get in the team?

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by m62exile » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:09 pm

Can't see why they would recall him midway through his loan unless there was a realistic chance he could be involved. Easier to assess him playing competitively in the Championship I'd have thought.

Like Robbie says, it might be with a view to playing in the FA Cup this weekend and I'm not sure whether that "counts" for us.

Either way, encouraging news, I'm just hoping that Harvey Madden had this arrangement watertight, especially as it's the best chance of any financial return on the debts we took on.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:12 pm

....
Last edited by Darlofan97 on Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by Robbie Painter » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:13 pm

As I understand it the first payment would be made if he is named in the matchday squad. A further payment would be made if he starts or gets brought on as a sub.

Hes been doing well at Birmingham after coming through a spell of poor form a couple of months ago. Fingers crossed he impresses the new manager.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by m62exile » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:22 pm

Yes, that's my understanding too. I'm just expressing that now if it comes to the crunch everything stands up as we expect.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by al_quaker » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:24 pm

Hopefully the FA cup counts. It wouldn't surprise me if Fulham made loads of changes with Premier League survival in mind, and therefore Burn might at least make the squad for their game on Saturday. If the figures mentioned are correct, it would give us a huge financial boost.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by lo36789 » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:50 pm

Mark Lawrenson mentioned the weakness with Fulham is the centre of the defence in a feature on the BBC website. Hopefully he impresses and gets on the bench in the PL soon!

Michael Smith has gone back to Charlton now as well, do we just have future fee on him? Or do we have some appearance based stuff as well!?

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by quakersam » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:01 pm

lo36789 wrote:Mark Lawrenson mentioned the weakness with Fulham is the centre of the defence in a feature on the BBC website. Hopefully he impresses and gets on the bench in the PL soon!

Michael Smith has gone back to Charlton now as well, do we just have future fee on him? Or do we have some appearance based stuff as well!?
Sell on fee for Smith
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Re: Dan Burn

Post by Spyman » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:52 pm

A Birmingham supporting acquaintance of mine was not particularly impressed with Burn. Not sure if that's the consensus though.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by dickdarlington » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:41 am

Do we know the figures at play here for Burn? And if he does get on the pitch will this lower the amount we need to raise to clear the debt, or will it go towards the ground?

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by divas » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:13 am

£37.5K when named in squad and same again as soon as he sets foot on pitch. That is taking I to account we only get 50% of the original deal.

Does anyone know the status of DFC 2009 these days? Is it liquidated yet?

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:21 am

dickdarlington wrote:Do we know the figures at play here for Burn? And if he does get on the pitch will this lower the amount we need to raise to clear the debt, or will it go towards the ground?
I'd hope it would go towards clearing debt especially as paying for that clause is part of the cause of the debt in the first place!

Also debt is much harder to get others to fund with their own pockets, a new ground on the otherhand is much more appealing.

Ask the question at the fans forum on Monday (is that right?). I am still waiting for the FA's reason why we are not actually entitled to the money.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by divas » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:46 am

It absolutely has to pay for debts, for me that was the only point of taking the debt on.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by BlackandwhiteBOB » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:50 am

divas wrote:It absolutely has to pay for debts, for me that was the only point of taking the debt on.
Agreed. 1 million percent! Saw a debate on twitter last night that said the same thing. Any money we get in from clauses such as this go to paying off debt and keeping the club stable.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:57 am

Any cash will go into DFC1883 and be paid off the debt, the CIC is responsible to arrange finance of the Ground at this stage whilst the club concentrates on the debt & cash flow.

These clauses could well be the thing that finally gives this club a chance of clearing the debt and moving on.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:00 am

divas wrote:£37.5K when named in squad and same again as soon as he sets foot on pitch. That is taking I to account we only get 50% of the original deal.

Does anyone know the status of DFC 2009 these days? Is it liquidated yet?
Pretty sure it was liquidated, trying to find the site I looked at when this was going through bu from memory fairly confident it happend.

Just a web page where you can pay for docs but does state that DFC 2009 was in liquidation and no accounts have been filed etc.

http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/ltd/d ... -club-2009
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Re: Dan Burn

Post by Gow9900 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:10 am

Without a doubt, IF we do receive any money from Fulham, it has to go to paying the debt off, as it is a noose around our necks at the moment and is sucking so much of the cash we generate out of the club.

Get a substantial amount of the debt paid off (I'd like to say all of it, but there's a long way to go for that) and then we can start moving forward.

I'm hoping that after the fans forum on Monday we might see some more money being put into the squareknot and Back to Darlo pitches. A lot of people I've spoken to seem to be holding back until after this fans forum for different reasons. I don't believe we will be told anything that we don't know at this fans forum, but I still believe the amount of flapping and over reacting is going to be pretty bad.

I believe we will be told that the debt is the pressing priority and needs getting rid of as soon as possible, but I think a lot of people are waiting for the actual words to come out of Martin Jespers mouth before they commit their money.

I could be completely wrong however, as the fact that the fundraising was set up in the run up to Christmas, the most expensive time of the year, will have also significantly hindered the amounts raised and it's difficult to commit any cash at any time of year, let alone this time of year.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by dickdarlington » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:14 am

That's good then. As all have said, it's only right that this goes towards clearing the debt.

Just the thought of that £75K making it's way into our bank account. It almost seems too good to be true. Come on Rene, make it happen.

With all of the announcements recently and some personal priorities, I've managed to get a bit baffled by what's what. I know we need the £20k->£75K for Blackwell. But what was the debt figure at the last time of asking?

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by Darlofan97 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:46 am

There are also appearance blocks clauses in Michael Smith's contract, whether these have been triggered by him playing for Charlton in an FA Cup and/or League Cup game I do not know. They may or may not count.

With Dan Burn we also have a sell-on, national cap clause and further appearance block clauses on top of the £75k Divas has mentioned above.

With Stockdale we have a 9% sell-on clause and appearance blocks clauses whereby every 25 games he plays we get £12.5k (it was £25k but half goes to DFC 2009 Ltd), there are 2 sets of this left before the payments stop, IIRC.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:47 am

dickdarlington wrote:That's good then. As all have said, it's only right that this goes towards clearing the debt.

Just the thought of that £75K making it's way into our bank account. It almost seems too good to be true. Come on Rene, make it happen.

With all of the announcements recently and some personal priorities, I've managed to get a bit baffled by what's what. I know we need the £20k->£75K for Blackwell. But what was the debt figure at the last time of asking?
180k as of June 2013 and planned debt as of June 2014 is 120k according the documents that were in place for the share/equity schemes.

Although according to our accounts 30th June 2013 liabilities were £213,101. Although accounts can be shown in many ways to make things look how you want.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/07914 ... 83-LIMITED

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:36 am

super_les_mcjannet wrote:180k as of June 2013 and planned debt as of June 2014 is 120k according the documents that were in place for the share/equity schemes.
I don't remember when debt got so high? I must have been completely imagining things but I thought that at the last fans forum there was £100k outstanding. That is the main reason why we are looking for a £100k investment at the moment to basically pay off that debt?

All that matters and this is in line with what I have been told elsewhere is that 5k per month goes to debt repayment.

Assuming we have 2 home games per month with on average 1,000 fans attending at an average ticket price of £5.50 (think that's right?). After debt repayments we are making about £3,000 from each home game, that equates to £1,500 per week.

So working on a squad of 16 players that is £100 per week per player about if we were just using gate receipts, becomes evident quite quickly where the problem lies doesn't it!

This works on an assumption that commercial revenues and other non-gate receipts will cover other expenses.

In order to equal out the debt we need to find an extra £2,500 per home game basically, having initially worked on the basis of 1,000 fans that is an extra 277 paying adults or an average attendance of 1,454 working on the average £5.50 ticket price (isn't that pretty similar to what Martin Jesper's said we needed at the last fans forum?).

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by Ash_Quaker » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:50 am

Darlofan97 wrote:There are also appearance blocks clauses in Michael Smith's contract, whether these have been triggered by him playing for Charlton in an FA Cup and/or League Cup game I do not know. They may or may not count.

With Dan Burn we also have a sell-on, national cap clause and further appearance block clauses on top of the £75k Divas has mentioned above.

With Stockdale we have a 9% sell-on clause and appearance blocks clauses whereby every 25 games he plays we get £12.5k (it was £25k but half goes to DFC 2009 Ltd), there are 2 sets of this left before the payments stop, IIRC.
Any idea when we are due one of these?

From the 17/12/11 Premier League game against Bolton, up until the game against West Ham which has just been, he has played 25 games.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:09 pm

Ash_Quaker wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:There are also appearance blocks clauses in Michael Smith's contract, whether these have been triggered by him playing for Charlton in an FA Cup and/or League Cup game I do not know. They may or may not count.

With Dan Burn we also have a sell-on, national cap clause and further appearance block clauses on top of the £75k Divas has mentioned above.

With Stockdale we have a 9% sell-on clause and appearance blocks clauses whereby every 25 games he plays we get £12.5k (it was £25k but half goes to DFC 2009 Ltd), there are 2 sets of this left before the payments stop, IIRC.
Any idea when we are due one of these?

From the 17/12/11 Premier League game against Bolton, up until the game against West Ham which has just been, he has played 25 games.
I did hear we have had this payment already although not officialy, which is actually good in regards to receiving anything for Dan Burn.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:16 pm

lo36789 wrote:
super_les_mcjannet wrote:180k as of June 2013 and planned debt as of June 2014 is 120k according the documents that were in place for the share/equity schemes.
I don't remember when debt got so high? I must have been completely imagining things but I thought that at the last fans forum there was £100k outstanding. That is the main reason why we are looking for a £100k investment at the moment to basically pay off that debt?

All that matters and this is in line with what I have been told elsewhere is that 5k per month goes to debt repayment.

Assuming we have 2 home games per month with on average 1,000 fans attending at an average ticket price of £5.50 (think that's right?). After debt repayments we are making about £3,000 from each home game, that equates to £1,500 per week.

So working on a squad of 16 players that is £100 per week per player about if we were just using gate receipts, becomes evident quite quickly where the problem lies doesn't it!

This works on an assumption that commercial revenues and other non-gate receipts will cover other expenses.

In order to equal out the debt we need to find an extra £2,500 per home game basically, having initially worked on the basis of 1,000 fans that is an extra 277 paying adults or an average attendance of 1,454 working on the average £5.50 ticket price (isn't that pretty similar to what Martin Jesper's said we needed at the last fans forum?).
The 100k was a target of what was needed to clear most debt and make things smoother, I don't think it would of cleared all debt though.

As you stated we are in a position where the debt repayments are holding us back and you can clearly see once season ticket money has gone and we hit a period where home games are off, we are on rocky ground.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by tezza » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:34 pm

According to Fulham website, likely Dan Burn will feature on Saturday.

Nice post xmas present if he does.

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by Ash_Quaker » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:38 pm

tezza wrote:According to Fulham website, likely Dan Burn will feature on Saturday.

Nice post xmas present if he does.
As Robbie Painter mentioned though, is the F.A Cup included in the deal or is it strictly league appearances?

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Re: Dan Burn

Post by lo36789 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:39 pm

tezza wrote:According to Fulham website, likely Dan Burn will feature on Saturday.

Nice post xmas present if he does.
Divas, the clauses you mentioned is that just Premier League games?

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