it's time to scrap the midweek game

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princes town
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it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by princes town » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:11 am

Read enough posts now to know at grassroots level midweek games should basically be scrapped. The northern league urgently need to consider reducing the league so that enough Saturday slots remain that the fans of bigger clubs aren't inconvenienced. At the lower end fewer fans anyway so not such a big deal to them but at our end it is screwing up cash flow. Whilst i am pleased marske had a good income boost from our game sturday, it doesn't do us any good.

We can also make small steps. Planning games at times when england are not on the box. Personally, I don't understand why a meaningless exhibition game takes precedence over a massive league game but I'm not here to make judgements cause I recognise it is brazil. We are being compromised by northern league policy to expand the number of 1st division games. More games doesn't exactly enhance the quality of the league either.

Darlofan97
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:27 am

A few questions/pointers:

If the league's team size was to drastically reduce to scrap mid-week games, where would other teams go?

Some people can't make weekend games but can make mid-week games.

What time and day would re-arranged games be played on when there are no Saturdays left?

There are only 37 Saturdays in a season. Go figure.

princes town
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by princes town » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:45 am

Good questions that need to be thought through. some ideas:-

If the league's team size was to drastically reduce to scrap mid-week games, where would other teams go?

not thought about that in too much detail

Some people can't make weekend games but can make mid-week games?.

Depends on the net effect, I guess but yes there is an equality impact. Would there be many people in this category?

What time and day would re-arranged games be played on when there are no Saturdays left?
too late to do anything this season. Correct. It would require a major overhaul.

There are only 37 Saturdays in a season. Go figure.

reducing the league to 18 teams would allow 3 free saturdays. i would also extend the season by 2 weeks. I have yet to see a valid argument against this. the other option is to make it a spring/ summer game like rugby league.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:55 am

princes town wrote:Good questions that need to be thought through. some ideas:-

If the league's team size was to drastically reduce to scrap mid-week games, where would other teams go?

not thought about that in too much detail

Some people can't make weekend games but can make mid-week games?.

Depends on the net effect, I guess but yes there is an equality impact. Would there be many people in this category?

What time and day would re-arranged games be played on when there are no Saturdays left?
too late to do anything this season. Correct. It would require a major overhaul.

There are only 37 Saturdays in a season. Go figure.

reducing the league to 18 teams would allow 3 free saturdays. i would also extend the season by 2 weeks. I have yet to see a valid argument against this. the other option is to make it a spring/ summer game like rugby league.
There are postponements to throw into it. Not just from the weather but from various cup competitions. As I said, you can't just reduce the league to 18 teams like that. The other 6 teams would have nowhere to go.

I'll give you a valid argument against extending the season by two weeks. You can't go past May 4th due to the FA Vase and a promotion issue and teams already scraping the barrel will have to budget for more weeks and that means more expenditure.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by tandydarlo » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:16 am

What a load of tosh one poor crowd on a very cold evening (not a poor crowd by Northern leage standards) and some want to change the world.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by lo36789 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:27 am

Erm.

This would almost half the number of games in a season - therein at least 1/3 of the revenue for the season. I know players are most on pay as you play but on the assumption that you should be more than covering salaries with gate receipts the more games the better.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by princes town » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:30 am


super_les_mcjannet
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by super_les_mcjannet » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:31 am

tandydarlo wrote:What a load of tosh one poor crowd on a very cold evening (not a poor crowd by Northern leage standards) and some want to change the world.
This really. Yes the crowd was low and yes they are reasons behind it. Of course where possible let's not have midweek games, especialy in the cold winter months. This will no doubt be our lowest crowd of the season but move on.

Other than that though let's just get on with the task of winning games and earning promotion.

As stated if we were in Darlingotn last night, we still wouldn't of got 1,000 at the match, sometimes you have to accept low crowds.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Quakerz » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:35 am

princes town wrote: reducing the league to 18 teams would allow 3 free saturdays. i would also extend the season by 2 weeks. I have yet to see a valid argument against this.
Well then you must have never told anyone because your argument is unbelievably badly thought out, and anybody with a high enough IQ to remember to breathe should be able to shred it.

Let's blow this apart bit by bit with "valid points", seeing as though nobody has given you a valid argument against this...

If you reduce the league, and I presume all leagues to 18 clubs, where would all of the other clubs go?

Even if you did magically do that, in most leagues you compete in at least 3 cups, in this league it is 4. Win a couple of cup matches and you are playing at least 6 extra matches. Remember there are only 3 free Saturdays as it is, 5 if you extend the season by a fortnight. Any club going on a run in one cup or two, could play 8-12 extra matches, when are they going to fit the matches in? Midweek? Oh...

We haven't even taken into account postponements yet. Just on Saturday fixtures alone, we've lost 5. That is before taking into account losing a couple more yet. When are you going to play the re-arranged matches? Midweek? Oh...

Any idiot, and I mean any idiot, can work out that smaller league = less fixture congestion and more midweeks to fit a pile of rearranged fixtures into, this is completely obvious. So I agree that reducing leagues would help - if you can solve the where do the other clubs go problem.

But getting rid of midweeks? You have no argument, it is impossible to get rid of midweeks, even with your suggestion to drastically reduce the leage and extend the season.
the other option is to make it a spring/ summer game like rugby league.
You'd need to start mid February and finish at the end of November. Even drastically reducing the league would mean some midweeks, because of all of the cups.

We already have popular summer sports like Rugby League and Cricket, whereas other countries that DO play football in the summer due to climate, don't.
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by MikeinBlack » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:50 am

I believe that the season's budget was set working on a crowd of 800 per match? Well last night was only 11 below that, so not exactly anything to get overly excited about when you consider we are pulling well above our budget weight/average crowd expectations for this season. Now, if the next few mid week games all attract below 800 attendees then we may have seen something to ponder on, but until that happens we don't have much to worry about really.
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Quakerz » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:52 am

tandydarlo wrote:What a load of tosh one poor crowd on a very cold evening (not a poor crowd by Northern leage standards) and some want to change the world.
Sorry but who cares what sort of crowd it was by Northern League standards, it's irrelevant!

All that matters is what sort of crowd it was by OUR standards, and we need far more than last night to raise a good amount of cash - that's what matters.
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poppyfield
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by poppyfield » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:53 am

princes town wrote:Read enough posts now to know at grassroots level midweek games should basically be scrapped. The northern league urgently need to consider reducing the league so that enough Saturday slots remain that the fans of bigger clubs aren't inconvenienced. At the lower end fewer fans anyway so not such a big deal to them but at our end it is screwing up cash flow. Whilst i am pleased marske had a good income boost from our game sturday, it doesn't do us any good.

We can also make small steps. Planning games at times when england are not on the box. Personally, I don't understand why a meaningless exhibition game takes precedence over a massive league game but I'm not here to make judgements cause I recognise it is brazil. We are being compromised by northern league policy to expand the number of 1st division games. More games doesn't exactly enhance the quality of the league either.

I enjoy my mid week game, so it was a poor crowd, game was not that good and it was cold, talk about a knee jerk reaction, if we rearranged it for a Tuesday weather might have done for it.
I agree there are to many teams and cups in this league, but thats the way this league is, we cant just change everything because it does not suit us or we have a poor attendance, we have to win this league and get out of it asp, and if by going to a cold HP on a Wednesday night and getting 3 points is what i have to do then so be it.
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:26 am

Midweek games are absolutely necessary, unless you have only a one or two week break between seasons.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by princes town » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:26 am

The basic fact remains that over 25 per cent of our income is lost through midweek games aside from marquee games like Spenny and last night was the 'tipping point' for me. It confirmed my suspicions. Science proves that the weather is getting more and more extreme and this problem will get much worse. It simply not good enough to match our crowds against the NL standard as that is just a race to the bottom. My sole interest is ensuring that 200+ people are not compromised by unattractive mid week games like last night.

I accept that the idea is far-reaching and cannot be done overnight but the attendances do suggest that there is a massive problem with midweek games. I'd also acept that on reflection that the focus should be on mid-winter midweek games although i'm still not convinced even the higher early season games did not have a novelty effect (better weather also perhaps?). The cup games issue is a massive weakness in my proposal (school boy error) that I'll have to think about. I certainly don't agree with the argument against Summer football and would extend that to youth football as well (why not? how many do Darlington get down there? cricket is watched by small crowds).

I also agree that the model would need a wider NL consensus and modifications will inevitably be needed but it is a sensible starting point for discussion. There are bigger brains than me on this forum so let's have some solutions and spare me the Arena argument. We either accept the status quo or try and do something about it through the auspices of the NL.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Darlofan97 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:30 am

It's not going to happen. It's laughable and one of the worst suggestions I've ever read.

There's not enough Saturdays and you can't just magic teams away.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:37 am

One poor midweek gate and your solution is to mutilate the league just to convenience us?

If your argument is purely down to how much money we're making (or losing) then surely having less games to play, therefore lowering our overall income, would negate any monetary positives from not playing in midweek. That alone is enough for your idea to be considered retarded.

Also, your original post mentioned a reduction in league sizes for all "grassroots" levels, not just our league, so where do you expect all the teams to go? There's literally nowhere for them to go, since you want to encompass all of non-league in your backwards proposal.
Last edited by DarloOnTheUp on Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by shawry » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:55 am

midweek games dont need scrapping, at the end of the day, its only because we get such large crowds that we notice the drop off more.

So yes, while it might suit us, in the grand scheme of things its better to keep the league size and midweek games if they are needed.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Quakerz » Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:58 am

princes town wrote: I accept that the idea is far-reaching and cannot be done overnight
No it isn't far reaching, it is far fetched. And yes it cannot be done overnight, because it cannot be done full stop. Have you not read any of the replies to your barmy idea. Your suggestion has been utterly taken apart.
but the attendances do suggest that there is a massive problem with midweek games. I'd also acept that on reflection that the focus should be on mid-winter midweek games although i'm still not convinced even the higher early season games did not have a novelty effect (better weather also perhaps?). The cup games issue is a massive weakness in my proposal (school boy error) that I'll have to think about. I certainly don't agree with the argument against Summer football and would extend that to youth football as well (why not? how many do Darlington get down there? cricket is watched by small crowds).

I also agree that the model would need a wider NL consensus and modifications will inevitably be needed but it is a sensible starting point for discussion. There are bigger brains than me on this forum so let's have some solutions and spare me the Arena argument. We either accept the status quo or try and do something about it through the auspices of the NL.
Meaningless waffle.
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Twintowers » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:05 pm

This must be favourite for dummest/knee jerk reaction post award for the season.
Fucking ridiculous.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by spen666 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:14 pm

I agree with the OP only he doesn't go far enough.

Let's limit leagues to 2 teams & play 1 game per season onthe day with the best weather. (To be decided when op says its warm enough)

Scrap all cup competitions - I mean the £1m Crawley or Burton or Exeter made as non league clubs in fa cup did none of them any good

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by carver30 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:46 pm

From NPL-Premier league mid week games are always down just have to live with it really. For all the reasons above I don't really think there is anything you can do about it except have less mid week games.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by fat tony » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:08 pm

princes town wrote:The basic fact remains that over 25 per cent of our income is lost through midweek games aside from marquee games like Spenny and last night was the 'tipping point' for me. It confirmed my suspicions. Science proves that the weather is getting more and more extreme and this problem will get much worse. It simply not good enough to match our crowds against the NL standard as that is just a race to the bottom. My sole interest is ensuring that 200+ people are not compromised by unattractive mid week games like last night.
Where did you get the 25% drop in income from? On that link you posted it looks like our midweek league attendances are down 12% compared to Saturday games. And what income are you talking about anyway? We seem to have quite a healthy proportion of paid-up season ticket holders so you're only talking here about on-the-day tickets and refreshments.

Also, how are you clawing back your 25% lost revenue by axing 25% of the games (24 to 18)? Surely you'd want 25% more? Don't get me wrong, I think it's total bollox either way, but just a thought!

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by number_one » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:14 pm

Oh, I read the original post and thought it was a piss take, clearly not, it's instead just bollocks.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Darlogramps » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:21 pm

Have you been at the Pritt-Sticks princes town?

There are so many reasons your lunatic idea would NEVER work, most of which are mentioned here - such as where do you put the clubs cut from the league.

If I was angry and drunk, I may be tempted to tear right into this.

But quite frankly, I can't be on with arguing against such a nonsensical idea that anyone with the intelligence of a woodlouse could rip apart.

We'll file this one alongside the "let's buy a player fund" idea that surfaced a few weeks ago. Under "L" for lunacy.
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by number_one » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:25 pm

Darlogramps wrote:If I was angry and drunk, I may be tempted to tear right into this.
Go and grab a bottle or two from the fridge and log back on gramps.

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by Fatty eats roadkill » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:36 pm

We could always have two games on a Saturday. Make it a fun packed all day festival.

I used to play football all day as a kid.
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by TMan2000 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:13 pm

what a load of drivel
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by poppyfield » Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:31 pm

Lets just invent 2 Saturdays every week :lol:
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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by DarloOnTheUp » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:02 pm

Fatty eats roadkill wrote:I used to play football all day as a kid.
TMan2000 wrote:what a load of drivel
I quite enjoyed Fatty's story so to call it drivel is a bit harsh.

Mundane perhaps, on the verge of mental retardation maybe, the story equivalent of pulling your eyes out with a piece of cheese possibly, but drivel? Get out!

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Re: it's time to scrap the midweek game

Post by theoriginalfatcat » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:10 pm

spen666 wrote:I agree with the OP only he doesn't go far enough.

Let's limit leagues to 2 teams & play 1 game per season onthe day with the best weather. (To be decided when op says its warm enough)
spen666 - stop it, you're making me LOL :thumbdown:


Wednesday night games are difficult for many people. In my case it makes it more expensive to attend, although I nearly always go and was there last night.
Surely if we had our own stadium we wouldn't need to play so many mid week games. The solution to this problem is obvious. Not easy though.
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