Feethams Facts Sad

Jazz Maverick · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:38 pm

AIDO wrote:

... well seeing as Tori has only been on the scene for a few weeks ... I disagree with you my friend. The beauty of debate ehh....

It was on the council website you dullard, just because someone whos only been on the scene for a bit posted the link doesn't mean it's a 'whim'.

We aren't going back to feethams in the next 3/4 years, and probably never will. Get this into your heads. The best we can hope for is to push for a share of the land sale from that or the arena.

Blackwell meadows is the best and most realistic of a bad bunch if we're going to return to darlo within the near future. Tbh I doubt even that will come off, seems more like council showboating to me. Still, we have to keep turning the screw or we'll end up stuck out of town and dying.

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:46 pm

Jazz are you saying that the football club was always included in the hub plans because to me that doesn’t make sense.

I don’t see why we can’t expect a share from feethams AND the arena.

Never settle for second best, people complained about the arenas location, blackwell is much worse.

ted_do · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:49 pm

I know its simple economics and DFC in its present guise can not afford £250k a year to play at the Arena, but standing back its farcical that people are having to worry how to get to "home" games at Bishop, whether OAPs will get a seat, how kids are going to get to night games when DFC have a home in the town, a purpose built ground that has been swindled from us by businessmen.

There is a way but if there's a will that`s the questionable bit, DFC alone cant support the Arena but a town the size of Darlington with its limited community and sporting facilities can, and it could be made an asset.

Only in this town could this happen :crazy:

gabbas · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:05 pm

liddle_4_ever wrote:

gabbas wrote:

liddle_4_ever wrote:

I believe the reason Blackwell is preferred is it is land that the council control where few neighbours will be upset (wouldn’t want to upset any potential voters would they) and as such, is the easy option.

Just think between the arena and Blackwell, which is preferential:
Parking? Arena
Public transport? Arena
Population density? Arena

With regards to Feethams taking years to fight for, I never considered it an option for the next 3-5 years or so but if we don’t fight for it now we will have lost arguably the most important land in the town to houses and flats. You have previously said there is no way that we will be playing in the town next year (I agree and was relieved to hear about the option to extend the deal at Bish) have you changed your mind? If it’s going to take 2 years to get into blackwell I can certainly wait an extra 3 years for Feethams.

I could also wait longer for a good location other than Feethams. Think about it like getting a tattoo, as the next ground should outlast all of us, so will be a decision we will live with for the rest of our lives. Do you say “I’m in a hurry, that will do” or hold out for what you want? Easy decision.

Not really a great argument...

Parking - Yes obviously because the ground was built 10 times bigger than we needed hence the reason we are not there anymore.
Public Transport - Well according to google maps from The Dolphin Centre to Blackwell Meadwos is 1.4m, well within walking distance and near most bus stops, compared to 2 miles from the Dolphin to the Arena and there is one stop outside blackwell meadows.
Population density - tell me how many of the hardy 1700 people where from that area that you have an argument...not many I bet.

Blackwell meadows will be more than suitable

In reponse to Aido there is a document the Tori once put a link onto on the councils website about the sporting hub so I disagree that it is on a whim.

The parking issue at Blackwell will be massive, it basically doesn’t have a car park.
I was not aware of a bus stop outside Blackwell but I’d guess it is a less frequent service than the one next to the arena.
2.8 mile round trip is way too far for the majority to complete just to go to the footy, we want to make it easy not a challenge to attend.

You know I couldn’t tell you how many come from that area but I see no reason why it should be any less than other areas in the town and I can see reasons why it would be higher. Also generally football fans come from less affluent areas so the arena would be better than blackwell.

Please explain why you think that Blackwell will suit us more than any other field randomly picked on the outskirts of the town.

I believe the sporting hub has been an idea for a few years but not with the football club involved so when we came along obviously everything changes.

Blackwell will be more suitable because it already has several facilities already in place, clubhouse, changing rooms, car parking (albeit small), pitch, floodlights.

I just feel people are ready with the excuses why not to come, I can see it alreay.

AIDO · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:14 pm

From a personal point of view Blackwell Meadows will be fine. I would like to see the blueprint for development though (out of curiousity). Naturally, as long as it's at least category C it will serve the purpose, and anywhere in the Borough is better than travelling to Bishop Auckland in my eyes. I only hope it can be done pdq. The sooner the better really.

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:26 pm

gabbas wrote:

Blackwell will be more suitable because it already has several facilities already in place, clubhouse, changing rooms, car parking (albeit small), pitch, floodlights.

I just feel people are ready with the excuses why not to come, I can see it alreay.

Ok it has changing rooms, hardly enough to base to decision on where to locate our club.

The clubhouse is owned by DRFC and they would have no obligation to share profits with us. With the clubhouse already there we would be unlikely to be given permission to build our own in the future. So if they don’t agree to share the profits with us then we will be worse off there than anywhere else.

The car park is so small that it could only be used by officials as the car park will also be used at the same time by DRFC.

The floodlights are on the rugby 1st team pitch, I doubt we would be playing on that pitch as, if DRFC are to return to a similar level to a handful of years ago, they get fined £1000s for every game that’s cancelled, that could ruin their club and they wouldn’t take that risk. So the pitch we would be playing on doesn’t have any stands or floodlights. And can you imagine 1000s of fans walking across a field to get the pitch it would be a nightmare.

Robbie Painter · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:32 pm

Personally I believe the Eastbourne sports complex site is a much better location.

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:36 pm

Without a doubt that would be better. The waste land next to the tech college, or if we are in dreamland, Feethams or the South Park, would also be ideal.

Jazz Maverick · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:41 pm

liddle_4_ever wrote:

gabbas wrote:

Blackwell will be more suitable because it already has several facilities already in place, clubhouse, changing rooms, car parking (albeit small), pitch, floodlights.

I just feel people are ready with the excuses why not to come, I can see it alreay.

Ok it has changing rooms, hardly enough to base to decision on where to locate our club.

The clubhouse is owned by DRFC and they would have no obligation to share profits with us. With the clubhouse already there we would be unlikely to be given permission to build our own in the future. So if they don’t agree to share the profits with us then we will be worse off there than anywhere else.

The car park is so small that it could only be used by officials as the car park will also be used at the same time by DRFC.

The floodlights are on the rugby 1st team pitch, I doubt we would be playing on that pitch as, if DRFC are to return to a similar level to a handful of years ago, they get fined £1000s for every game that’s cancelled, that could ruin their club and they wouldn’t take that risk. So the pitch we would be playing on doesn’t have any stands or floodlights. And can you imagine 1000s of fans walking across a field to get the pitch it would be a nightmare.

I dont think anyone is suggesting we'll be using Blackwell meadows as is. Some work will be required to take it up to a level acceptable to both clubs.

Better alternatives within 3 years please.

gabbas · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:44 pm

liddle_4_ever wrote:

Without a doubt that would be better. The waste land next to the tech college, or if we are in dreamland, Feethams or the South Park, would also be ideal.

What, and you are complaining about car parking at Blackwell Meadows?

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:11 pm

Central locations require less car parking spaces as more people can walk, use a combination of public transport and walking or using existing car parks in the town centre.

The car parking at DRFC is so small that we might struggle to meet the minimum parking requirements for visiting officials never mind fans so should not be considered a positive. It’s the like wanting to go for a swim but being told the bloke down the road has a sink, yes it’s still water but the size makes it irrelevant.

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:20 pm

Jazz Maverick wrote:

I dont think anyone is suggesting we'll be using Blackwell meadows as is. Some work will be required to take it up to a level acceptable to both clubs.

Better alternatives within 3 years please.

Everything that would need to be carried out at a new ground would also need to be improved/carried out at DRFC so DRFC should not been seen as having any advantage over any other potential location. Even the changing rooms (which I originally thought would be fine) I think would need to be changed as there isn’t female facilities.

The only advantage is potentially quicker planning permission as nobody lives near it.

gabbas · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:23 pm

liddle_4_ever wrote:

Central locations require less car parking spaces as more people can walk, use a combination of public transport and walking or using existing car parks in the town centre.

The car parking at DRFC is so small that we might struggle to meet the minimum parking requirements for visiting officials never mind fans so should not be considered a positive. It’s the like wanting to go for a swim but being told the bloke down the road has a sink, yes it’s still water but the size makes it irrelevant.

I think you are underestimating the amount of car park spaces.

super_les_mcjannet · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:24 pm

I think as a Community Club we really need the Council Support and I am guessing here but if they have something in mind we may well have to work with them and where they suggest. We should question the ideas but must remember that we have no stadium and no money to build one. I would prefer Feethams but a stadium in Darlington that suits our needs maybe what we end up with.

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:47 pm

gabbas wrote:

liddle_4_ever wrote:

Central locations require less car parking spaces as more people can walk, use a combination of public transport and walking or using existing car parks in the town centre.

The car parking at DRFC is so small that we might struggle to meet the minimum parking requirements for visiting officials never mind fans so should not be considered a positive. It’s the like wanting to go for a swim but being told the bloke down the road has a sink, yes it’s still water but the size makes it irrelevant.

I think you are underestimating the amount of car park spaces.

From google maps I estimate there to be about 90 parking spaces with maybe 20-25 more cars able to park if you stick a car on every bit of grass. I doubt you can tell the ref/a visiting chairman/a FA official to stick his car on a patch of grass so only official hard core car parking spaces will count so approx 90 spaces. How many of them do you expect us to get on a weekend? 30? Not a chance!

Look on google maps again if you haven’t been to DRFC when there is a game on. The car park is 2/3 full when there is only one football game on with no crowd. Rugby squads are bigger than football squads and if the car park is 2/3 full when one pitch is used imagine what it is like when all 6 are used!!

The car park is tiny!

gabbas · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:55 pm

liddle_4_ever wrote:

gabbas wrote:

liddle_4_ever wrote:

Central locations require less car parking spaces as more people can walk, use a combination of public transport and walking or using existing car parks in the town centre.

The car parking at DRFC is so small that we might struggle to meet the minimum parking requirements for visiting officials never mind fans so should not be considered a positive. It’s the like wanting to go for a swim but being told the bloke down the road has a sink, yes it’s still water but the size makes it irrelevant.

I think you are underestimating the amount of car park spaces.

From google maps I estimate there to be about 90 parking spaces with maybe 20-25 more cars able to park if you stick a car on every bit of grass. I doubt you can tell the ref/a visiting chairman/a FA official to stick his car on a patch of grass so only official hard core car parking spaces will count so approx 90 spaces. How many of them do you expect us to get on a weekend? 30? Not a chance!

Look on google maps again if you haven’t been to DRFC when there is a game on. The car park is 2/3 full when there is only one football game on with no crowd. Rugby squads are bigger than football squads and if the car park is 2/3 full when one pitch is used imagine what it is like when all 6 are used!!

The car park is tiny!

ok, fair comment

divas · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:09 pm

The ground debate does my tits in.

Here we are, a club in the NL without a pot to piss in and forced to play matches outside if the town.

How the hell are we going to get a prime town centre site, situated on prime development land?

If we can either somehow get a lease playing at either Blackwell or West Park when it's eventually done and thus secure a return to the town no matter where it is, or who its sharing with i'd be absolutely over the moon.

charlie · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:13 pm

divas wrote:

The ground debate does my tits in.

Here we are, a club in the NL without a pot to piss in and forced to play matches outside if the town.

How the hell are we going to get a prime town centre site, situated on prime development land?

If we can either somehow get a lease playing at either Blackwell or West Park when it's eventually done and thus secure a return to the town no matter where it is, or who its sharing with i'd be absolutely over the moon.

What he said ^^^

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:35 pm

Battle that the land is ours and it can’t be sold without our permission, if successful then we can do as we please.

Get the planning permission removed or some form of listing/area of international cultural importance etc. and it is no longer a prime development. Then we can easily obtain it.

Fight for the right to the financial gain from selling our stadium, if we get this then the cricket club gain nothing from selling the land so they won’t sell it.

And if all of that fails (which unfortunately could be likely) get a petition going, we want the land to be used, as intended, for sporting use by the town not a residential estate. Get the local papers to pledge to “boycott the estate”. Get fans blocking the diggers etc. from entering the ground, this would be great for the papers and news channels and negative press for the developer. Then, if the houses get built, when the houses 1st go on sale the papers then run front page news about them being built on a flood plain. All of this will reduce the chance of the development being a commercial success, if there is a risk of bad pr and/or poor returns or even a loss they won’t take on the build and will be happy to get out of the development.

Also it should be noted that saving Feethams from being turned into a soulless estate doesn’t need to be linked with DFCs new stadium. If we get a new stadium in four years and the developer pulls out of Feethams after 10 years that is still a major success.

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:41 pm

With all due respect Charlie, (and thanks for what you have committed so far) we are talking about the long term future of the club which is intrinsically linked to the location of the stadium, after 6 months worth of interest in the club you can’t make an informed opinion.

A decision should not be rushed into to save 1 season away from the town at the expense of every season in future.

charlie · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:04 am

liddle_4_ever wrote:

With all due respect Charlie, (and thanks for what you have committed so far) we are talking about the long term future of the club which is intrinsically linked to the location of the stadium, after 6 months worth of interest in the club you can’t make an informed opinion.

A decision should not be rushed into to save 1 season away from the town at the expense of every season in future.

With all due respect I may of only been around for 6 months, but I am entitled to an opinion.
I cannot comprehend what Feethams mean to you all, but reading the posts and talking to people I know it mean a lot.
However looking at it logically for all we are not a `new club` we are starting financially from scratch self funded and many people are volunteering their time fundraising and will continue to do so.
A return to Darlington is obviously of the utmost importance.
Oh and btw being a member of Darlington 1883 CIC I`m entitled to my informed opinion

And for future reference my hubby has been a Darlo supporter for 31 years

liddle_4_ever · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:30 am

You are entitled to your opinion but it is not necessarily informed no matter how much you have donated, do you remember reading about GR he “donated” millions but was clinically retarded.

As I said above saving Feethams and Darlo finding a new ground doesn't need to be linked, it could be changed into astroturf pitches or a training accademy etc. which would respect the history and stop the past being paved over for some boring, soulless flats.

And when I posted “with all due respect…” I meant it in a nice way not a modern, chavy, Jeremy Kyle way. And your husband’s history is irrelevant, if I had a wife who was a surgeon for the last 30 years would you be happy for me to operate on you?

charlie · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:00 am

liddle_4_ever wrote:

You are entitled to your opinion but it is not necessarily informed no matter how much you have donated, do you remember reading about GR he “donated” millions but was clinically retarded.

As I said above saving Feethams and Darlo finding a new ground doesn't need to be linked, it could be changed into astroturf pitches or a training accademy etc. which would respect the history and stop the past being paved over for some boring, soulless flats.

And when I posted “with all due respect…” I meant it in a nice way not a modern, chavy, Jeremy Kyle way. And your husband’s history is irrelevant, if I had a wife who was a surgeon for the last 30 years would you be happy for me to operate on you?

The whole reason I`m involved is because of my hubby, he`s poorly and I started researching info on what was happening for him, to keep him informed, then I found myself `being sucked in` and I`ve enjoyed every minute. (even though a lot of it has been heart wrenching )
My opinion involves his opinion and another family member who has a long history with the club.
I`m not trying to big myself up nor am I looking for anything other than helping to save the club for ourselves and future generations. My part is small and largely irrelevant compared to what others have done but I`m proud to play my small part and will continue to do so.
I made no comment about how much I`ve donated but it does entitle me to my voting rights which is what my above post refers to.
My original post in this thread was agreeing with Diva`s post and I stand by that.
You are entitled to your opinion however I disagree with you, I`m more than capable of making an informed choice, I personally may be new to this but I do listen and I do research and will do the same with my voting rights.
Feethams have planning permission for 5 years in which they are to lay down foundations or they lose the planning permission, we are 3 years into that. Its a travesty the state it is in, I worry though that our focus should be on building our club and that its being diverted.
Every Darlo fan is entitled to an opinion no matter how long they have supported or how little, we dont always have to agree with each other but every Darlo fan is entitled to their voice and to be honest I take exception with being told that I havnt supported long enough to make an informed choice when you know nothing about me

Jazz Maverick · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:28 am

What an absolute botter you are liddle_4_ever.

You're making nonsense, dismissive arguments about forgoing the only current realistic ground we could return to in Darlington in favour of some pie in the sky bullshit about fighting for feethams and returning there/halting development - despite ALL information pointing to the fact that A) this most likely would never happen, B) would take many years and much money to achieve even if it was remotely likely (which it's not) and C) we have more pressing concerns than a legal fight which might do nothing other than stitch up the cricket mob. I've seen nothing in your reasoning or arguments that is based on anything other than guesswork or outright make believe (car parking spaces, less busses, further from town than arena, no people living nearby).

You then have the nerve to tell someone else they can't have an informed opinion because they haven't supported the club long enough. Brilliant community ethos there sunshine.

You're either a bit dense or a complete arsehole. I'm not sure which one yet.

PierremontQuaker03 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:47 am

although I cant see a move back to feethams - anytime soon anyway - the cricket club should be ashamed the way they have left it. OK they will have needed to demolish the stands for health and safety reasons (probably) etc etc - but they could have kept the pitch in good working order and had sunday league football matches on there.
It is so obvious what they have done - they have let it to go to wreck and ruin deliberately so that it becomes and eyesore and so football can never be played their again - so that they can sell the land to a builder.
Now its 10 years on since we left feethams and still nothing has happened - the arse has fell out of the property market and it is not going to improve anytime soon aswell as the fact that its next to a river, access issues, increase in traffic etc etc.
I would imagine this issue is affecting the cricket club financially but they will put on a brave face.
What am I trying to say - no house builder in their right mind would buy this land and build houses on it - there is not enough money in it for them with all the access issues, insurances etc etc - there are prime pieces of land in and around the town centre that cant sell.
The feethams story will run and run for the next few years I have no doubt and shauns campaign will keep it in the lime light but FFS no houses are going to be built on the land!

AIDO · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:12 am

PierremontQuaker03 wrote:

although I cant see a move back to feethams - anytime soon anyway - the cricket club should be ashamed the way they have left it. OK they will have needed to demolish the stands for health and safety reasons (probably) etc etc - but they could have kept the pitch in good working order and had sunday league football matches on there.
It is so obvious what they have done - they have let it to go to wreck and ruin deliberately so that it becomes and eyesore and so football can never be played their again - so that they can sell the land to a builder.
Now its 10 years on since we left feethams and still nothing has happened - the arse has fell out of the property market and it is not going to improve anytime soon aswell as the fact that its next to a river, access issues, increase in traffic etc etc.
I would imagine this issue is affecting the cricket club financially but they will put on a brave face.
What am I trying to say - no house builder in their right mind would buy this land and build houses on it - there is not enough money in it for them with all the access issues, insurances etc etc - there are prime pieces of land in and around the town centre that cant sell.
The feethams story will run and run for the next few years I have no doubt and shauns campaign will keep it in the lime light but FFS no houses are going to be built on the land!

hey hey ... well said that man .... like it or not folks .... :clap:

ted_do · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:16 am

liddle_4_ever wrote:

Battle that the land is ours and it can’t be sold without our permission, if successful then we can do as we please.

Get the planning permission removed or some form of listing/area of international cultural importance etc. and it is no longer a prime development. Then we can easily obtain it.

Fight for the right to the financial gain from selling our stadium, if we get this then the cricket club gain nothing from selling the land so they won’t sell it.

And if all of that fails (which unfortunately could be likely) get a petition going, we want the land to be used, as intended, for sporting use by the town not a residential estate. Get the local papers to pledge to “boycott the estate”. Get fans blocking the diggers etc. from entering the ground, this would be great for the papers and news channels and negative press for the developer. Then, if the houses get built, when the houses 1st go on sale the papers then run front page news about them being built on a flood plain. All of this will reduce the chance of the development being a commercial success, if there is a risk of bad pr and/or poor returns or even a loss they won’t take on the build and will be happy to get out of the development.

Also it should be noted that saving Feethams from being turned into a soulless estate doesn’t need to be linked with DFCs new stadium. If we get a new stadium in four years and the developer pulls out of Feethams after 10 years that is still a major success.

Have to agree with you on this point, one of the reasons we are now homeless and penniless is due to the fans not fighting for what is rightfully ours. We give up our birthright at Feethams and we have walked away from the Arena without a fight, and we have no firm plans for a return to the town.

There is more to supporting your home town football club than watching a game of football played by a team with a badge that just happens to say Darlington on it, we need to get the club back into our community ASAP and fighting for Feethams/Arena or Feethams/Arena money is the only way I can see use paying for a new ground, as it will take years and years to raise 1-2 million it will cost to get even the most basic bishop style evo level ground.
Also any future promotions above Evo level will be in vane as DFC will not get up due to ground restriction, unless we start to develop Bishops ground but that opens up my biggest fear for my home town clubs future.

Jazz Maverick · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:41 am

You're right ted.

Us gutless fans should take a leaf out of your book and spend god knows how long sat behind a keyboard moaning like fuck but not actually offering anything up.

We'd be grand then.

Northern soul KTF · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:28 am

I feel your fears are well founded Ted. I also feel the overwhelming passion to save Feethams. Sadly just because you want funds from this sale and that. You lose sight of the fact rights were lost under administration. Some one may have hit the nail on the head getting Feethams as listed status. I bet when Cricket Club pull down the TinShed the bulldozers will be on the Football side of the land so as not to damage cricket pitch. Pure sacrilege!

Quakerz · **Posted:** Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:23 am

Northern soul KTF wrote:

Isn't the Arena owned by S&S. If so how are we due any funds Q.

We aren't "due" any funds, but you'd hope the council would use it's leverage to get us a cut - the biggest problem now is we're out of sight and out of mind.

Say a developer offered S&S £6m for the Arena, the 75% covenant would mean they don't get the £2.1m that they want so they would have to ask the council to relax the covenants, and the council could stipulate that around £2 million goes to they club - S&S won't be bothered who gets what as long as they get their cut.

There was a similar deal on the table in January blocked by Radged Strings, who wanted a nice slice of the slice that we would have recieved, in order to waive his loan.

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