Youth team - next season

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SteveSC
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Youth team - next season

Post by SteveSC » Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:26 pm

May not have been addressed yet - but can any of those who have knowledge of the business plan for the club next season (if there is one - the club that is) tell me:

Does it include funding for a youth team
If so - does that funding extend to a full time youth team manager
if so - does it envisage that this person will be dedicated to the youth team - with a separate senior squad manager

snowscape
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by snowscape » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:27 pm

I hope there is provision for funding the Youth set-up, as it could be a good part of our future sustainability.

Darlofan97
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:30 pm

snowscape wrote:I hope there is provision for funding the Youth set-up, as it could be a good part of our future sustainability.
Yes, having a youth set-up when we become a community based club is vital. At least the money earned from the sales of players such as Dan Burn and Michael Smith will be re-invested back into the club instead of being chucked into a black hole to plug some of the losses.

Quakerz
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Quakerz » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:31 pm

I think it costs around 150k, which is external funding which we will lose.

I can't see us being able to afford it, and if we do, it'll be at the expense of the first team playing budget which will be small anyway.
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Fibonacci0112358
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Fibonacci0112358 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:34 pm

Quakerz wrote:I think it costs around 150k, which is external funding which we will lose.

I can't see us being able to afford it, and if we do, it'll be at the expense of the first team playing budget which will be small anyway.

Yes, the last two seasons funding for the youth team has come from the PFA.

This ends at the end of this Season.

Darlofan97
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:36 pm

Quakerz wrote:I think it costs around 150k, which is external funding which we will lose.

I can't see us being able to afford it, and if we do, it'll be at the expense of the first team playing budget which will be small anyway.
I think that choice should be left to Craig Liddle.

mobi
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by mobi » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:37 pm

Darlofan97 wrote:
Quakerz wrote:I think it costs around 150k, which is external funding which we will lose.

I can't see us being able to afford it, and if we do, it'll be at the expense of the first team playing budget which will be small anyway.
I think that choice should be left to Craig Liddle.
No, it should be up to the board.

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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Quakerz » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:39 pm

The choice will be made by the bean counters.

I can't see us being able to fund it. At the moment it doesn't cost anything, next season we'll have to pay for it ourselves, against a backdrop of trying to cut massive losses. The last thing we want is another expense.

I think the best we can hope for is to raid the youth team for the best 5-6 players, give them pro deals for next season and shut it down unfortunately - with a view to starting up again when finance allows.
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Darlofan97
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Darlofan97 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:41 pm

mobi wrote:
Darlofan97 wrote:
Quakerz wrote:I think it costs around 150k, which is external funding which we will lose.

I can't see us being able to afford it, and if we do, it'll be at the expense of the first team playing budget which will be small anyway.
I think that choice should be left to Craig Liddle.
No, it should be up to the board.
It wouldn't make a difference to our expediture, income anyway. Say it cost's £150k for the youth team to be run. The board might ask Liddle if he want's an extra £150k added to the playing budget but no youth team or £150k sliced off the playing budget and the youth team to be ran. Afterall Liddle is the one who made a great success out of it in the first place.

I'll wait to see what Divas or QuakerPete say's on this anyway.
Last edited by Darlofan97 on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Christophano
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Christophano » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:41 pm

Quakerz wrote:I think it costs around 150k, which is external funding which we will lose.
Is that it?
While we can't expect to sell youth wonderkids every year, at £350k for Dan Burn and ~£80k for Micheal Smith, can we afford not to keep it going?

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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Quakerz » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:48 pm

Christophano wrote:
Quakerz wrote:I think it costs around 150k, which is external funding which we will lose.
Is that it?
While we can't expect to sell youth wonderkids every year, at £350k for Dan Burn and ~£80k for Micheal Smith, can we afford not to keep it going?
What if it works out that our playing budget can be no higher than say 300k next season, you going to take a further 150k out of it are you?

Its a tough choice because the youth team is a source of home grown, cheap pros, BUT you can't guarantee you'll sell one every year, and if it doesn't pay for itself then its an expense.

We might have to cut it, but at least we have a final crop of good kids that we can bring in as 1st year pros next year.
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lo36789
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by lo36789 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:04 pm

There must be scope to try and get sponsors specifically for the YT which will go some way towards £150k. What if any products of the YT the sponsors can get a cut of transfer fees basically? We need YT not only as an income generator but also to provide backup and new generation of players.

£150k per annum. What if say 25% of sales from YT products is split pro rata between the sponsors/call them YT investors!?

If we get a Dan Burn £350k then that is £87,500 available I mean there will clearly be a heavy shortfall likely but it is a marketing/sponsorship opportunity as much as it is an investment to make money from.

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divas
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by divas » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 pm

A youth team is a critical part of the plan

Quakerz
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Quakerz » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:51 pm

Does the plan also magic money out of thin air?

How are we going to fund a first team?
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snowscape
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by snowscape » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:09 pm

With regard to funding costs, the first year in the Conference, the funding was £180k.
This season it is £90k., and none thereafter, unless we get promoted back into the football league.
I read an article in NLP last August, about Luton, who are in a similar position to us - they had set up a fund-raising committee specifically aimed at funding for their Youth set-up.
Perhaps we could do the same!

charlie

Re: Youth team - next season

Post by charlie » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:18 pm

Dont shoot me, as I have no idea how it works, could we not put them on apprenticships?

Quakerz
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Quakerz » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:18 pm

Actually the point raised about maybe businesses funding it and maybe getting a cut of player sales could be a valid avenue to explore.
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lo36789
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by lo36789 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:55 am

there is another part of the plan with our youth team...this might sound a bit ridiculous but we could do with Hodgy being involved in a capacity, the capacity of advertising our YT to other clubs if they are good enough!

He is an agent after all and we already know the network he has in the game, he would have to protect his professional reputation but if we had somebody actively advertising the YT players we can cash in on surely it will benefit us in the long run (who knows we may have got money for the likes of Curtis Main before we let him go)

If we gave him free reign of our training ground basically and we get a very preferable rate (of zero maybe on agents fees) and YT players become his clients...he can change his arrangement once they move on so he gets benefit as well! If he is aware of what we have he is more likely to advertise it basically.

bedaledarlo
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by bedaledarlo » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:06 am

Quakerz wrote:Does the plan also magic money out of thin air?

How are we going to fund a first team?
Your sums are still poor aren't they?

How on earth do you get £150k per year as a loss when you tot up the youth player sales revenue from the last few years? It is a profit making sector of DFC at present.

At the end of the day Q a business needs revenue streams. They cost and they generate. The first team playing budget is what got this club into trouble, the youth set up for myriad reasons is what is keeping it on life support. This has been a highly successful revenue stream - have you valued McReady yet?

Come on you need to get behind what is good about the club, we need to be realistic in how we budget because things are going to cost money to make it a success but you don't make cuts to your profit centres

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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by darlo1972 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:09 am

[]

YT players become his clients...


yt players have a say in if they want an agent,
why do agents need to advertise the youth players,scouts from other clubs are at games all the time.if the lads are good enough then things will happen,these lads just need somewhere to develop,my lad had a chance to go out to other clubs,he chose darlington,these lads need to progress from youth level to 1st team level for any clubs to pay money of the likes the club got for dan burn.

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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by SteveSC » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:16 am

A few posts mentioned asking Lidds how he wanted to play it regards use of the budget - all in the senior team or divert some to a youth set up.

Thus assumes that Lidds will be manager next season.

He has mentioned several times that he doesn't see himself as a manager, more interested in youth development - I think in a recent interview he said something like ...'I have said I wasn't keen - and nothing I've experienced while doing it has changed my mind.'

If we had no youth team then I wouldn't be too suprised to see Lidds offered and accept a post in another club with a decent youth set up.

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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by lo36789 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:24 am

listen to managers when they say how players are picked up all over the country...scouts do it to a certain extent but recommendations from professionals in the game make up a lot of player sales.

I think it was Ian Holloway who before he signed Luke Varney was just having a chat with somebody about wanting to play 4-3-3 and I can't remember who it was he was speaking to but he was recommended to play Luke Varney in that wide left role.

You hear it all the time. Roy Hodgson recommended Chris Smalling to Alex Ferguson - so Fergie sent his scouts along and well...we know what happened there.

What do you think agents actually do just sit with the player on the books and pick up a fee when they move - they actively seek transfers for them! What I am trying to suggest, not sure how it would work, is if we could get Hodgy on board to help out with that given his history with the club he may not charge the extortionate fees which other agents charge for the same service!

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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Darlofan97 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:57 am

SteveSC wrote:A few posts mentioned asking Lidds how he wanted to play it regards use of the budget - all in the senior team or divert some to a youth set up.

Thus assumes that Lidds will be manager next season.

He has mentioned several times that he doesn't see himself as a manager, more interested in youth development - I think in a recent interview he said something like ...'I have said I wasn't keen - and nothing I've experienced while doing it has changed my mind.'

If we had no youth team then I wouldn't be too suprised to see Lidds offered and accept a post in another club with a decent youth set up.
Your wrong. When asked about the managerial job last Wednesday Liddle said that he doesn't know but, he has formed to much of a bond to probably say no. A far cry from him saying he wasn't one bit interested a few month ago.

Quakerz
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Quakerz » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:03 am

bedaledarlo wrote:
Quakerz wrote:Does the plan also magic money out of thin air?

How are we going to fund a first team?
Your sums are still poor aren't they?

How on earth do you get £150k per year as a loss when you tot up the youth player sales revenue from the last few years? It is a profit making sector of DFC at present.

At the end of the day Q a business needs revenue streams. They cost and they generate. The first team playing budget is what got this club into trouble, the youth set up for myriad reasons is what is keeping it on life support. This has been a highly successful revenue stream - have you valued McReady yet?

Come on you need to get behind what is good about the club, we need to be realistic in how we budget because things are going to cost money to make it a success but you don't make cuts to your profit centres
We got lucky with Burn and there is NO guarantee we'll sell any of the decent crop for a decent amount.

Like it or lump it, it is an EXPENSE next season - UNLESS we sell someone of equal amount to the running costs of the youth scheme each season. This is fact, and we don't need you being clever and saying unhelpful stuff like "your sums are still poor?"

It's only a "profit centre" if it sells more than it brings in, and I'll point this out now because I know that you will relentlessly bang on about it in your own special way - The Burn and Smith money does not make next season's cost £0.

I hope we can keep it going, I'm just worried where we'll have to cut budgets to fund it.
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lo36789
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by lo36789 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:06 am

i dunno...he wouldn't leave us with nothing is more what he is suggesting. I think if we had somebody else who could do it he would take a youth role. He is still unproven now is not really the scenario to judge his managerial ability...he hasn't got his 'own' team, the jury is still out on Liddle's ability as a first team manager, sad but it's true. Everyone wants him to succeed - but he likes developing players footballing ability when it is less about winning football matches - it is a very different environment.

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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Ash » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:22 am

Christophano wrote:
Quakerz wrote:I think it costs around 150k, which is external funding which we will lose.
Is that it?
While we can't expect to sell youth wonderkids every year, at £350k for Dan Burn and ~£80k for Micheal Smith, can we afford not to keep it going?
150k is no small amount of money and it will be huge next year but I agree with Divas that it's vital. I also don't think having a youth team is something you can just drop altogether and pick back up easily.

150k is likely to prove too much so it will have to be scaled back like much of the rest of the spending, I would hope we could find the money to maintain a smaller youth team and a part time dedicated coach.

The other aspect is - if it was a choice between Liddle staying or going I'd rather find the money for a proper set up even at the expense of the playing budget. It would mean being more reliant on youth team players to support the first team squad.

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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by darlo1972 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:30 am

my son has an agent it cost him nothing,he has had clubs come look at him,but if you want decent money ,these lads need to be playing in the 1st team,so an agent can try all he wants to get youth team players to other clubs but if he any club did take any youth team players,they would get a small fraction of what they would if playing in the 1st team

Quakerz
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by Quakerz » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:33 am

Ash wrote:
Christophano wrote:
Quakerz wrote:I think it costs around 150k, which is external funding which we will lose.
Is that it?
While we can't expect to sell youth wonderkids every year, at £350k for Dan Burn and ~£80k for Micheal Smith, can we afford not to keep it going?
150k is no small amount of money and it will be huge next year but I agree with Divas that it's vital. I also don't think having a youth team is something you can just drop altogether and pick back up easily.

150k is likely to prove too much so it will have to be scaled back like much of the rest of the spending, I would hope we could find the money to maintain a smaller youth team and a part time dedicated coach.

The other aspect is - if it was a choice between Liddle staying or going I'd rather find the money for a proper set up even at the expense of the playing budget. It would mean being more reliant on youth team players to support the first team squad.
The playing budget might diminish so much by having to run a youth set up (unless we get investors) that we have to go part time.

Several times prominent people like the local paper editor and local MP have campaigned that we are trying to save "professional" football in Darlington. I'll be a bit miffed if we end up part time after all of the pleading and fundraising.
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BUSHEAD
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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by BUSHEAD » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:22 pm

£150,000 for 15 or so young lads.
Simplish maths coming up.

£100 a week wage ? (guesstimate) = £5k a year
So there's £75k.
Someone to coach them - £30k ?

Mini bus costs to 16? away games £2k ?

What other costs is there mounting to over £40k ?
Think before posting

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Re: Youth team - next season

Post by number_one » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:25 pm

Quakerz wrote:The choice will be made by the bean counters.
Or in the Corner Bar.

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