Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

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JABWootton
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Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by JABWootton » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:44 am

He has seen a possibility of increasing the company’s portfolio against the football club and eventually pushing the club to one side once he has got permission to build a hotel?

Why 40% why not 50% (If he wants it to be a community club why not a 50/50 split)?

Who from his side will be on the board (Do they ask him how high when he asks them to jump)?

Be very wary of this bloke.

If you stand in front of him he’ll just run you over.

The mission statement is positive of his company (As are all mission statements) but still wary of someone like this coming in to the football business.

http://www.whotelgroup.com/group_mission.php

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Spyman
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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by Spyman » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:13 am

No business is owned by a 50/50 split is it? Someone always has to have a deciding vote.

I expect he'd offer 51/49, but this would leave the supporters needing to raise considerably more capital. the 60/40 split at least makes our target achievable whilst still giving a decent level of representation (ie not just oe person on the board).

We have to be cautious, as we've been stung so many times before - but at least this proposal seems to be a step in the right direction, offering the community some kind of presence.

If we're not happy with his intentions, then we work towards increasing our stake as time goes on, but lets just get the club saved for now before we start casting aspertions.
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by fat tony » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:23 am

Spyman wrote:No business is owned by a 50/50 split is it? Someone always has to have a deciding vote.

I expect he'd offer 51/49, but this would leave the supporters needing to raise considerably more capital. the 60/40 split at least makes our target achievable whilst still giving a decent level of representation (ie not just oe person on the board).

We have to be cautious, as we've been stung so many times before - but at least this proposal seems to be a step in the right direction, offering the community some kind of presence.

If we're not happy with his intentions, then we work towards increasing our stake as time goes on, but lets just get the club saved for now before we start casting aspertions.
I agree. This could be all that's on the table and the deadline is Monday. Whatever this guy's background we'll be getting a 40% stake and the club will be saved. That's a good enough starting point for me. I've got concerns about our sustainability, but I think those concerns will be the same no matter how we get out of this.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by SteveSC » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:33 am

Unless I've missed it he has no stated love of football, much less a struggling BSP (or worse) club like Darlo - so unless he has developed a philanthropic streak he will expect a return on his investment.

He obviously cannot do that from the football side of things - so other aspects of the club's position must have attracted him - the obvious ones are stadium and land - not owned by the club but no doubt available to buy from S&S if the price is right.

So I would expect him to hang around for a few years, try and exploit the stadium to generate revenue, get the land, try and do deals with the council, somehow increase the value of the land, and either develop himself or sell up and move on.

I just wonder how much of any such money finds its way to the football side, how much he is willing to put into the bottomless pit of the football club while he is with us - and how much the 'community' side will be expected to put in. on an ongoing basis.

But as others have said, it means we should continue to have a club, and when he departs we already have a stake in it which is better than we have had previously.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by mispentyouth » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:35 am

£200,000 for a 40% stake in what ? the only asset the football club will have when the fans make their investment is a lease, which is essentially worthless.

Question for fans is, 'is saving the club in its current form worth a £200,000 roll of the dice' or should liquidation be considered and a phoenix club financed with the same £200,000

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by mobi » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:39 am

SteveSC wrote:Unless I've missed it he has no stated love of football, much less a struggling BSP (or worse) club like Darlo - so unless he has developed a philanthropic streak he will expect a return on his investment.

He obviously cannot do that from the football side of things - so other aspects of the club's position must have attracted him - the obvious ones are stadium and land - not owned by the club but no doubt available to buy from S&S if the price is right.

So I would expect him to hang around for a few years, try and exploit the stadium to generate revenue, get the land, try and do deals with the council, somehow increase the value of the land, and either develop himself or sell up and move on.

I just wonder how much of any such money finds its way to the football side, how much he is willing to put into the bottomless pit of the football club while he is with us - and how much the 'community' side will be expected to put in. on an ongoing basis.

But as others have said, it means we should continue to have a club, and when he departs we already have a stake in it which is better than we have had previously.
It says he is a Sheffield Wednesday fan, but obviously has no interest in Darlo as a club. The club is not sustainable at this stadium and hosting a few concerts every year isn't going to change that. We simply do not have the money to fund the stadium and the team. There appears to be no long term financial support here and the team needs subsidising, in fact, virtually all teams do! Is he willing to do this, because somebody has to.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by mobi » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:42 am

mispentyouth wrote:£200,000 for a 40% stake in what ? the only asset the football club will have when the fans make their investment is a lease, which is essentially worthless.

Question for fans is, 'is saving the club in its current form worth a £200,000 roll of the dice' or should liquidation be considered and a phoenix club financed with the same £200,000
Exactly, its not even a roll of the dice, its virtually assured that the money will be swallowed up and gone within months. Then you'll need another 200K.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by fat tony » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:53 am

mispentyouth wrote:£200,000 for a 40% stake in what ? the only asset the football club will have when the fans make their investment is a lease, which is essentially worthless.

Question for fans is, 'is saving the club in its current form worth a £200,000 roll of the dice' or should liquidation be considered and a phoenix club financed with the same £200,000
Worrying.

Does that mean if this deal goes ahead S&S will still be looking to sell the land and stadium to someone else? And will the lease have to be renegotiated?

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by andi_darlo » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:58 am

does anyone else maybe think this has something to do with Raj ?
Im not suggesting the guy has any involvement with Raj, but maybe the fact the details about sustainability and future plans such as buying the stadium building hotels whatever are all being kept very quiet and no statements of i'm gonna do this or that to keep the club going is all to get Raj out of the picture ?

1st Wildes comes in says i'm gonna invest in the club 60/40 split with supporters, takes the club out of admin stays at the arena paying S&S rent- Raj stays to his word writes off his "loans" and the club continues.

Then 6 month later Raj no longer has a say, Wildes says "club really need to own the stadium therefore i will buy from S&S" pays S&S there 2mil now they no longer have a say.

Then Wildes then owns the land the stadium and a 60% share of the club does not answer to anyone regarding development, having kept the community and Jenny C sweet during this whole process and beyond ,has a good relationship with the council the community and the club regarding everything then says he needs to develop the land to make it profitable.

Then The Council give permission for hotels and leisure facilities relaxing the covenents so long as the club remains sustainable, part community owned and can never be put into this situation again !

Then Wildes takes his healthy share of the profit which he is entitled to having made the investment and the club and the council get their cut and everyone is happy ?

Alternatively if he came out all guns blazing about how he intends to make a killing from future developments, having the council on side and saved the club.
Raj then turns round and scuppers the whole thing by wanting his "investment" back ?

Just a thought ?

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by del2012 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:11 pm

A little worrying that in the Northern Echo article he has stated that the club will remain at the current stadium as it is a great asset, wasnt it this huge drain that started all this?

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by MikeinBlack » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:16 pm

del2012 wrote:A little worrying that in the Northern Echo article he has stated that the club will remain at the current stadium as it is a great asset, wasnt it this huge drain that started all this?

I'm guessing that he thinks he can run the stadium better and more effectively than GR, GH and RS could. He probably expects his own business contacts to come up with the goods and support him. I just hope he isn't counting on 5,000 fans every game, because that isn't going to happen in a hurry!
COME ON DARLO!

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by SteveSC » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:22 pm

The more I think about this, the more worried I get.

My biggest question - when the £500K runs out - then what - how much is he prepared to plough into subsiding the club year on year - and presumably any of his funding would have to be matched 60/40 by the RG. Even if he can squeeze a bit of profit from the stadium I would suspect there is still going to be a loss/shortfall of several hundred thousands every year - and we might have to find 40% of it.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by collett_for_england » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:23 pm

It is a great asset if you want to do all the non-footballing things he does. The cost of running will be outweighed by profits at nearly all similar stadiums, we just need someone who can organise the business correctly.

This man seems a step in the right direction but as posters above say, let's be wary and keep our fund-raising going. If 5 years down the line this man splits we need to have money in place to keep the club going and relocate without a massive drama.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by Hawkeye » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:25 pm

MikeinBlack wrote:
del2012 wrote:A little worrying that in the Northern Echo article he has stated that the club will remain at the current stadium as it is a great asset, wasnt it this huge drain that started all this?

I'm guessing that he thinks he can run the stadium better and more effectively than GR, GH and RS could. He probably expects his own business contacts to come up with the goods and support him. I just hope he isn't counting on 5,000 fans every game, because that isn't going to happen in a hurry!
Unless he's a complete and utter muppet, I doubt he'll be expecting that.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by AIDO » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:26 pm

del2012 wrote:A little worrying that in the Northern Echo article he has stated that the club will remain at the current stadium as it is a great asset, wasnt it this huge drain that started all this?
It is a huge asset to the person who is willing to use/run it properly. Nobody has ever done that before del.

It's a starting point of a new era. Accept it and trust in the community angle, which again has never been achieved before. Most of the town appears to have awoken to how precious this club of ours is ... it's time for sceptics to do the same and give it a chance. Not blow it out of the water before it has even been launched!!!!

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by Spyman » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:39 pm

mispentyouth wrote:£200,000 for a 40% stake in what ? the only asset the football club will have when the fans make their investment is a lease, which is essentially worthless.

Question for fans is, 'is saving the club in its current form worth a £200,000 roll of the dice' or should liquidation be considered and a phoenix club financed with the same £200,000
Well from that is is clear what Scott & Sizer think!
On Sunday April 29, 2012 at 10:25 pm, Darlo Cockney wrote:Sadly some people have nothing better to do that invent rumours.

We will be playing at the arena again next season - fact.

Quakerz - if you actually attended games and spoke to people you might actually find our facts, rather than spreading s*** on this board.

DC

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by PDL23 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:40 pm

I for one dont care if he is hannibal lecter if he saves my 128 year old club. Even if he is in it for 2 years to get money out of the land it buys us time to get things right to take it off his hands.

I would like to thank him for his interest and I hope the deal goes through. We dont know enough about him to judge on past Chairman's exploits.

I have no interest at all in a new club, that isnt the team I support.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by BaronsCourtQuaker » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:47 pm

Can someone explain to me: the fans put up £200k for 40%, once this £500k is spent what then happens? the fans get to keep there 40% share without putting more money in?

Or does he expect the club to be breaking even before this money runs out thus meaning no extra funds need to be added?

Or best case scenario does he think he can turn a profit and how is that profit repaid in the 40%?

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by PDL23 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:55 pm

BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:Can someone explain to me: the fans put up £200k for 40%, once this £500k is spent what then happens? the fans get to keep there 40% share without putting more money in?

Or does he expect the club to be breaking even before this money runs out thus meaning no extra funds need to be added?

Or best case scenario does he think he can turn a profit and how is that profit repaid in the 40%?
I dont think anyone knows that answer but the chance of saving the club is enough for me to get on board.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by mobi » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:04 pm

PDL23 wrote:
BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:Can someone explain to me: the fans put up £200k for 40%, once this £500k is spent what then happens? the fans get to keep there 40% share without putting more money in?

Or does he expect the club to be breaking even before this money runs out thus meaning no extra funds need to be added?

Or best case scenario does he think he can turn a profit and how is that profit repaid in the 40%?
I dont think anyone knows that answer but the chance of saving the club is enough for me to get on board.
So you don't care if the 200K is swallowed up in a few months and we then need another 200K to get through the following few months?

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by mikec » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:05 pm

I think it will take some time for us to get all the answers so not much point guessing / speculating, but I am interested that he is proposing to stay at the Arena. All this talk of moving to a new ground has always been flawed. Looking at other threads on this board estimates are anything from £5 million upwards to build a new stadium (of the size required). If we can't raise a few hundred thousand pounds where did anyone ever think £5M would come from?
It remains to be seen if the Arena "asset" can be sweated enough to make it an income generator and will also be interesting to see how much of that income flows to the club.
The stated (if sketchy) plans sound like they are not as "pie in the sky" as others that have emerged over recent weeks ... but time will tell!!!

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by PDL23 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:07 pm

mobi wrote:
PDL23 wrote:
BaronsCourtQuaker wrote:Can someone explain to me: the fans put up £200k for 40%, once this £500k is spent what then happens? the fans get to keep there 40% share without putting more money in?

Or does he expect the club to be breaking even before this money runs out thus meaning no extra funds need to be added?

Or best case scenario does he think he can turn a profit and how is that profit repaid in the 40%?
I dont think anyone knows that answer but the chance of saving the club is enough for me to get on board.
So you don't care if the 200K is swallowed up in a few months and we then need another 200K to get through the following few months?

I am not saying that I dont care/worry. But if this doesnt happen then there is nothing to worry about as we wont have a club. Starting from Scratch wont work as we have nothing to start with. We dont even have the £200,000 we are arguing about.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by Darlo_Pete » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:08 pm

I think we've got to thank our lucky stars that someone is prepared to put some money into the club, because if he doesn't we could be in a far worse position at the start of next season. I'd expect the Rescue Group to have asked him some fairly probing questions as to his intentions for the club. I'm sure they wouldn't sign up to something that they don't think will work in the first place.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by MikeinBlack » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:10 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:I think we've got to thank our lucky stars that someone is prepared to put some money into the club, because if he doesn't we could be in a far worse position at the start of next season. I'd expect the Rescue Group to have asked him some fairly probing questions as to his intentions for the club. I'm sure they wouldn't sign up to something that they don't think will work in the first place.

Likewise the Administrator! Don't forget guys, he has to sign this deal off too!
COME ON DARLO!

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by al_quaker » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:11 pm

Darlo_Pete wrote:I think we've got to thank our lucky stars that someone is prepared to put some money into the club, because if he doesn't we could be in a far worse position at the start of next season. I'd expect the Rescue Group to have asked him some fairly probing questions as to his intentions for the club. I'm sure they wouldn't sign up to something that they don't think will work in the first place.
Good point. The DFCRG are fans too, so they'll hopefully be aware of what's gone wrong in the past, and try to fix it in the future.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by Darlo Nutz » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:23 pm

There is a lot of interesting questions raised, and some worrying thoughts running around my head like a gypos waltzer. But please remember we have some business men and MPs batting for the club, do you really think they just gonna jump in with 2 feet? These lads in the rescue group have Darlo at heart, so let's all take a chill pill and look to the positives that we still have a club and possibly a bright future ;-) DTID

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by mobi » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:38 pm

Darlo Nutz wrote:There is a lot of interesting questions raised, and some worrying thoughts running around my head like a gypos waltzer. But please remember we have some business men and MPs batting for the club, do you really think they just gonna jump in with 2 feet? These lads in the rescue group have Darlo at heart, so let's all take a chill pill and look to the positives that we still have a club and possibly a bright future ;-) DTID
The question is, would the RG go with anything or anyone they could just to save the current club, or would they let it die if the offer wasn't right? I have a feeling its the former.

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by Darlo Nutz » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:51 pm

If they truely have the club at heart which it is clear to see by there passion they will do what's right, for the club to be what we want it to be it has to be right now, not 1 or 2 years down the line because we could end up back to square 1 in no time at all. Me personally think IF it isn't right then we don't want him on board for OUR club! If it means haven't to start all over again so be it, but I'd prefer for all to be perfect and run as we are in a new stadium. Let's hope it is the latter then let the good times roll. If we accept his offer just for the sale of keeping the club alive, we are dicing with death but I'm sure the RG have this all In hand ;-)

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by we_8_poolie » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:13 pm

Mobi ...are you worried that the other £40k is under threat ?

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Re: Wildes has a plan that doesn't invlove the club

Post by DarlingtonDave » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:05 pm

Can I throw something in here. Jenny C has been involved in all this. It ain't going to look good for her if this guy is like all the rest. So why not just wait and see and give it a chance as you just don't know.

Secondly if Raj reads the board or his cronies who complained what makes you think Mr Wildes doesn't?

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