Great atmosphere at the Arena today

[Quakerz]

We make a massive loss every year, c900k. What else is there to blame other than the stadium, whether we know the exact costs or not. A succession of chairman have came along and claimed it is a big mouth to feed, why would they all lie?

[carver30]

We make a massive loss every year, c900k. What else is there to blame other than the stadium, whether we know the exact costs or not. A succession of chairman have came along and claimed it is a big mouth to feed, why would they all lie?

Because its easier for all the chairman to blame stadium costs as a way out getting out,
and yes I think they would all lie. Obviously with bigger crowds stadium costs would be all academic.

[littlecar]

We make a massive loss every year, c900k. What else is there to blame other than the stadium, whether we know the exact costs or not. A succession of chairman have came along and claimed it is a big mouth to feed, why would they all lie?

Surely the players wages have contributed to our annual loss. Yes, having more regular fans is a necessity, but also we need to be realistic with the players that come in and our wage bill. Didn't I see on here a while ago that our wage bill is somewhere in the region of £1mil when other clubs in our leaguer are closer to £500k?

The stadium does contribute to the losses of the club, but not to the extent that the previous chairmen have indicated - I suspect that they all had ulterior motives in trying to blame the stadium as the problem.

[bedaledarlo]

The atmosphere was electric. I've said before they are mad chopping the home-end in two but it really worked and bunched the fans together. When we used to get 4k the atmos was great. Very underrated by some and now that split is done (and you can change ends again like we did in the old days..) it was fantastic.

Q there is no way a community-run club would only get 2,000 fans. If we are going to make a rescue work we are sorted for 3k crowds again.

I do think we all the facts to be properly considered on the £10 a game debate. Remember the starting point here is at the moment we are losing money at £18 due to small crowds.

Duffle's spreadsheet showed how just a very small increase in crowds (couple of hundred) with a price drop will make us more money on tickets. With crowds as low as present ones you're downside risk is VERY small here. If you get a thousand more you make SERIOUSLY more on match-day.Do we also put a compensator in there for the extra money the same fans will spend that have shelled £6 less on the ticket on other things?

At the moment I only buy drink and pies at the ground - I'd stay for a few more, more often if a) entry was cheaper, and b) all me mates could afford to come / wanted to more often because there are more fans in with more atmosphere...
With the goodwill around at the moment a Pooly style offer in the close-season (marketed in the ways we've all pushed in the last few weeks) would

The Poolie style offer would be wonderful and I'd love a leave the arena plan

[bedaledarlo]

... but the arena rocks with 5k in it

[Quakerz]

Look, Raj said our wage bill would end up this season as 900k - 1m because of pay offs and extra signings etc. Last year it was 800k and we lost 200k despite making 600k from Burn and Wembley. Without those we'd have lost 8-900k!

Whilst our wage bill *was* too high for our crowds, several teams are spending more. Bottom line is that whichever way you do the maths, the wage bill needs to not only be halved but reduced to *fuck all* in order to break even on current income.

It can only be the stadium costs and people need to wake up to this.

[Quakerz]

The atmosphere was electric. I've said before they are mad chopping the home-end in two but it really worked and bunched the fans together. When we used to get 4k the atmos was great. Very underrated by some and now that split is done (and you can change ends again like we did in the old days..) it was fantastic.

Q there is no way a community-run club would only get 2,000 fans. If we are going to make a rescue work we are sorted for 3k crowds again.

I do think we all the facts to be properly considered on the £10 a game debate. Remember the starting point here is at the moment we are losing money at £18 due to small crowds.

Duffle's spreadsheet showed how just a very small increase in crowds (couple of hundred) with a price drop will make us more money on tickets. With crowds as low as present ones you're downside risk is VERY small here. If you get a thousand more you make SERIOUSLY more on match-day.Do we also put a compensator in there for the extra money the same fans will spend that have shelled £6 less on the ticket on other things?

At the moment I only buy drink and pies at the ground - I'd stay for a few more, more often if a) entry was cheaper, and b) all me mates could afford to come / wanted to more often because there are more fans in with more atmosphere...
With the goodwill around at the moment a Pooly style offer in the close-season (marketed in the ways we've all pushed in the last few weeks) would

The Poolie style offer would be wonderful and I'd love a leave the arena plan

Oh god, here we go again. NO a couple hundred extra fans if the price was set at £10 would NOT cover the shortfall, we'd need to NEARLY DOUBLE crowds to STAND STILL, you unbelievably thick, untalented mathematician.

And STANDING STILL is no good because that means a huge loss.

Please promise me that you will never be anywhere near the DFCRG and their decision making process.

I'm not saying I would not be in favour of a small reduction in ticket price to make it appear more fair and more appropriate to the level for the public at large - but it'd have to be as risk free a strategy as possible - such as making it £15 in, which seems a decent price these days, but at the same time putting the U-16's price up to £7.

[3BlackHoops]

Look, Raj said our wage bill would end up this season as 900k - 1m because of pay offs and extra signings etc. Last year it was 800k and we lost 200k despite making 600k from Burn and Wembley. Without those we'd have lost 8-900k!

Whilst our wage bill *was* too high for our crowds, several teams are spending more. Bottom line is that whichever way you do the maths, the wage bill needs to not only be halved but reduced to *fuck all* in order to break even on current income.

It can only be the stadium costs and people need to wake up to this.

To return to my previous point, can you be specific?

Are you/we able to itemize the costs?

Thing is, with most of the stadium currently closed, heating/lighting needs ranging from minimal to non-existent in the parts that are used, small office and admin staff costs and a low rent, which specific stadium costs are we talking about here?

[Quakerz]

You know I can't itemise it because I'm not the club's accountant, but to assume that maybe the stadium is really cheap as chips to run because we haven't got access to accounts is bordering on delusional.

[bedaledarlo]

Q your numbers are wrong on this, sorry - please see Duffle's spreadsheet.

The 'you're thick' argument has never been a strong one has it?! Give me numbers different to Duffle's and then you have a basis for argument. You are way way too simplistic on this one I'm afraid. Otherwise I stand by what I said, we needed a few hundred more only just to stand still on it. Get a thousand more in and you are well up.

How can costs possibly be any different to the costs of running any other stadium? A few more rooms ( that incidentally made us £8-10k over Xmas with the parties)

If the costs are punitive you increase revenues. That starts with getting bums on seats.

No-one has made a real organised effort to make the arena work. But the infrastructure is there - it could make us good money done properly.

We need a large volunteer team within one of our groups to take care of marketing and a separate one on boosting of the attendances - but they need a helping hand, some form of price cut to work with...

[Quakerz]

Q your numbers are wrong on this, sorry - please see Duffle's spreadsheet.

The 'you're thick' argument has never been a strong one has it?! Give me numbers different to Duffle's and then you have a basis for argument. You are way way too simplistic on this one I'm afraid. Otherwise I stand by what I said, we needed a few hundred more only just to stand still on it. Get a thousand more in and you are well up.

How can costs possibly be any different to the costs of running any other stadium? A few more rooms ( that incidentally made us £8-10k over Xmas with the parties)

If the costs are punitive you increase revenues. That starts with getting bums on seats.

No-one has made a real organised effort to make the arena work. But the infrastructure is there - it could make us good money done properly.

We need a large volunteer team within one of our groups to take care of marketing and a separate one on boosting of the attendances - but they need a helping hand, some form of price cut to work with...

Fuck off.

[Jazz Maverick]

Fuck me bedale, bringing up duffles magic (and completely figures-plucked-from-thin-air) spreadsheet and the subject of ticket prices?

Pretty brave considering your utter destruction on the subject and your subsequent flouncing off the messageboard

You never learn do you?

[Quakerz]

How hard can it be to understand that halving the gate price halves the income and therefore you'd need more than "a couple hundred" more to match the normal income?

Duffel's spreadsheet was thoroughly debunked at the time, and yet this clown keeps on referring to it as some sort of holy grail of mathematical genius because it said what he wanted to read (yet was wrong)

Why not give us a link to the spreadsheet bedale, so we can all tear it to pieces again?

[bedaledarlo]

Jazz yours and Q's posts above characterise quite well that debate we had don't they?

People on one side put forward ideas and figures and people on the otherside hurtled abuse and claimed victory.

It was a victory for abuse, certainly not football

[3BlackHoops]

You know I can't itemise it because I'm not the club's accountant, but to assume that maybe the stadium is really cheap as chips to run because we haven't got access to accounts is bordering on delusional.

Yes, the stadium isn't cheap as chips to run -- in professional football, at any level, very little is -- but nor are its running costs solely responsible for the three admins.

Instead, like others here, I'm more inclined to suspect that its easier for some of our recent chairman (mentioning no names, of course), to blame the stadium costs as a reason for throwing in the towel after their playing budgets turned out to be, to put it politely, ahem, somewhat unrealistic...

[bedaledarlo]

How hard can it be to understand that halving the gate price halves the income and therefore you'd need more than "a couple hundred" more to match the normal income?

Duffel's spreadsheet was thoroughly debunked at the time, and yet this clown keeps on referring to it as some sort of holy grail of mathematical genius because it said what he wanted to read (yet was wrong)

Why not give us a link to the spreadsheet bedale, so we can all tear it to pieces again?

Read that back to yourself...

I think you'll find half of 16 or 18 quid is 8 or 9 quid. And juniors dont pay 18 quid. Basic errors before you even start.

Can I make a request? Can we have a dispassionate debate on this? Can we act like adults on it?

I'm gash with IT so I'm sure someone else can put up the link.

[Quakerz]

Unbelievable. Can you even remember the ins and outs of Deffels speadsheet, or can you only remember that it impressed you because it was what you wanted to hear?

Presently you are trying to have a debate with NOTHING to back you up - give us SOMETHING, ie solid reasoning and figures, and we can talk. If not, please shut up and stop spouting about magical spreadsheets.

Even Duffel admitted he had completely fucked up.

Now, give us something tangible....

[Quakerz]

You know I can't itemise it because I'm not the club's accountant, but to assume that maybe the stadium is really cheap as chips to run because we haven't got access to accounts is bordering on delusional.

Yes, the stadium isn't cheap as chips to run -- in professional football, at any level, very little is -- but nor are its running costs solely responsible for the three admins.

Instead, like others here, I'm more inclined to suspect that its easier for some of our recent chairman (mentioning no names, of course), to blame the stadium costs as a reason for throwing in the towel after their playing budgets turned out to be, to put it politely, ahem, somewhat unrealistic...

Fuck me. Just fuck me. The budget is the same as the loss. It's in black and white. A 100k budget is "unrealistic" Why are you not getting this?

We need to massively cut "costs" never mind wages, if we are to stay at the Arena in the short term.

[Quakerz]

How hard can it be to understand that halving the gate price halves the income and therefore you'd need more than "a couple hundred" more to match the normal income?

Duffel's spreadsheet was thoroughly debunked at the time, and yet this clown keeps on referring to it as some sort of holy grail of mathematical genius because it said what he wanted to read (yet was wrong)

Why not give us a link to the spreadsheet bedale, so we can all tear it to pieces again?

Read that back to yourself...

I think you'll find half of 16 or 18 quid is 8 or 9 quid. And juniors dont pay 18 quid. Basic errors before you even start.

Can I make a request? Can we have a dispassionate debate on this? Can we act like adults on it?

I'm gash with IT so I'm sure someone else can put up the link.

Nobody else will have the link because nobody thought it was correct and therefore worth keeping

Forget Duffel's spreadsheet, it was wrong, and you need to do better that rely on a spreadsheet that is probably lost to history to make a cornerstone of your argument.

The floor is now yours, come up with some figures...

[Jazz Maverick]

Nice sidestep bedale.

Still no figures, research or evidence that anything you suggest is remotely workable, but hey, keep blaming that on the more realistic and intelligent posters on here.

[bedaledarlo]

Unbelievable. Can you even remember the ins and outs of Deffels speadsheet, or can you only remember that it impressed you because it was what you wanted to hear?

Presently you are trying to have a debate with NOTHING to back you up - give us SOMETHING, ie solid reasoning and figures, and we can talk. If not, please shut up and stop spouting about magical spreadsheets.

Even Duffel admitted he had completely fucked up.

Now, give us something tangible....

No he didn't Q, that's rubbish I'm afraid. He said he thought it was more complicated than simply dropping the price to get the numbers in, but he certainly did not say he had completely fucked up at all.

Let's not have a petty scrap on this. One side of the debate has given figures. You haven't. Your turn and no desperate lunges like this please. Be an adult.

[Quakerz]

Yes, you're right, one side has given figures, that's me. I said if you halved the price you would need more than 200 more to make up the difference. A 5 year old could work that out.

And the other side (you) have given no figures at all. all you are good for is saying zippo, and playing the "oh the bad men are picking on me" card.

You've said nothing, no figures, fuck all. Make a case or shut the fuck up.

[bedaledarlo]

Pathetic Q. Absolutely pathetic.

Someone is I'm sure capable of posting the link. I can't, but when someone does they will compare that basic fag-packet, top of your head rubbish that i have already debuffed cos your basic maths is wrong with the spreadsheet.

Spreadsheet or Q's agressive assertion... Mmmm

FFS lads you might as well give up and go back to name calling, for once that is actually more convincing.

[srun]

Look, Raj said our wage bill would end up this season as 900k - 1m because of pay offs and extra signings etc. Last year it was 800k and we lost 200k despite making 600k from Burn and Wembley. Without those we'd have lost 8-900k!

Whilst our wage bill *was* too high for our crowds, several teams are spending more. Bottom line is that whichever way you do the maths, the wage bill needs to not only be halved but reduced to *fuck all* in order to break even on current income.

It can only be the stadium costs and people need to wake up to this.

From what I have heard recently, the club were losing £30k per week, and a lot of this was down to player wages. The club kept league 2 wages in the hope of immediate return, and now are paying the price. Once it became apparant this season that promotion was less likely, the cull came - too late though. Bit like Leeds (living the dream which turned into a nightlmare). The cup run and transfers put off the inevitable.

If you start from scratch again with a smaller stadium, you will still need to spend on the basics ie rent,gas, electric, water, insurance, the pitch etc etc. Unless the club generates income during the week, every week, the club cannot sustain on one match every 2 weeks, even with bigger crowds.

The stadium is only one part of the problem. Lack of home crowds, player costs and low non football income are also part of the bigger picture. Without addressing these, admin will come around again.

[Quakerz]

Pathetic Q. Absolutely pathetic.

Someone is I'm sure capable of posting the link. I can't, but when someone does they will compare that basic fag-packet, top of your head rubbish that i have already debuffed cos your basic maths is wrong with the spreadsheet.

Spreadsheet or Q's agressive assertion... Mmmm

FFS lads you might as well give up and go back to name calling, for once that is actually more convincing.

All you are doing is appealing to people's sympathy. I can't see you getting any, because you have actually said nothing. No-thing.

Please say something, some-thing, that we can debate. I easily can do some fag packet maths and go into a bit of detail to show how 200 extra people would not make a shortfall, and yes I'm fully aware we have concessions and kids. I'm not prepared to do this at the moment, because I'm not the one making the claim that 200 extra people would generate the same income at £10 a head - YOU are.

You need to come up with a reasonable argument for YOUR claim, don't expect me to do the maths for you.

Please come up with a starting point for debate, or shut up.

[Quakerz]

Look, Raj said our wage bill would end up this season as 900k - 1m because of pay offs and extra signings etc. Last year it was 800k and we lost 200k despite making 600k from Burn and Wembley. Without those we'd have lost 8-900k!

Whilst our wage bill *was* too high for our crowds, several teams are spending more. Bottom line is that whichever way you do the maths, the wage bill needs to not only be halved but reduced to *fuck all* in order to break even on current income.

It can only be the stadium costs and people need to wake up to this.

From what I have heard recently, the club were losing £30k per week, and a lot of this was down to player wages. The club kept league 2 wages in the hope of immediate return, and now are paying the price. Once it became apparant this season that promotion was less likely, the cull came - too late though. Bit like Leeds (living the dream which turned into a nightlmare). The cup run and transfers put off the inevitable.

If you start from scratch again with a smaller stadium, you will still need to spend on the basics ie rent,gas, electric, water, insurance, the pitch etc etc. Unless the club generates income during the week, every week, the club cannot sustain on one match every 2 weeks, even with bigger crowds.

The stadium is only one part of the problem. Lack of home crowds, player costs and low non football income are also part of the bigger picture. Without addressing these, admin will come around again.

Whilst it is true that we were losing nearly 20k a week (900k a year) I'm sick of hearing it was because of wages.

Reducing the wages to half would only half the loss. Then what?

[darlo2001uk]

Back to the usual in-fighting......

What kind of a message does this send to fans of other clubs who may have logged on here to offer their support?

If you are incapable of debating important issues in an adult fashion without resorting to name calling and insults then I think you should leave the board temporarily and allow those that can and want to do so, to get on with it.

[littlecar]

Back to the usual in-fighting......

What kind of a message does this send to fans of other clubs who may have logged on here to offer their support?

If you are incapable of debating important issues in an adult fashion without resorting to name calling and insults then I think you should leave the board temporarily and allow those that can and want to do so, to get on with it.

[Quakerz]

I'm asking him to present a case or shut up.

[Jazz Maverick]

Quakerz has actually been pretty patient with you bedale, all things considered. The fact you are still falling back on the 'stop being abusive' tactic pretty perfectly exhibits you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to this or any other subject.

It's absolutely hilarious that you keep referring to duffels plucked from thin air spreadsheet to back up your argument though

If its that conclusive, go into your post history and find the thread. Very easy to do, unless of course deep down you know it's a load of rubbish and proves fuck all?